If they want to reconcile, why don't they say so?

[guy4caligirl]

Why is it so hard for an ex BPD  to put her guards down when thinking of reconciling and be straight forward ?

Does anyone know why ?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[EaglesJuju]

I think a lot of it has to do with shame, self-loathing, trust, and fear of rejection/abandonment. People who have self-loathing and shame typically believe they are horrible people and eventually everyone will see that and leave them.  Commonly, this is what many pwBPD have learned from their past and their FOO. People who are afraid of being rejected or abandoned tend to have a wall up to protect themselves. Think about it this way, if you never have the chance to let someone in, you really cannot get hurt.   When you have been abandoned and rejected in the past, it is hard to learn to trust people. Many pwBPD have a very hard time trusting people because they expect you  are going to eventually let them down. PwBPD tend to self-sabotage and become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[MapleBob]

EaglesJuJu is right on the money, but there's also an element of passivity at play. Disordered people would rather open a door for you to walk through than walk through it themselves, because then if you don't walk through it, well, that's your fault.

[guy4caligirl]

EaglesJuJu is right on the money, but there's also an element of passivity at play. Disordered people would rather open a door for you to walk through than walk through it themselves, because then if you don't walk through it, well, that's your fault.

Maplebob  I like how you put it good job!

EaglesJuJu  very well written .

Eagle ,

Can you please elaborate on self loathing ?

Are you saying when others see who they are , even if those who put up with them, do they start looking for a way out ?

[DreamGirl]

Why is it so hard for an ex BPD  to put her guards down when thinking of reconciling and be straight forward ?

Does anyone know why ?

Don't we all kinda do this?

[Joem678]

Maplebob,

Thank you for putting it the way you did.  It is true that they have to put it on your plate so if you don't it will be your fault.

Even though, she left, family members are asking me, "Why I don't want to work things out?, Why am I throwing away 19 years?"  Mind you, she has a replacement too.

[whitebackatcha]

Why is it so hard for an ex BPD  to put her guards down when thinking of reconciling and be straight forward ?

Does anyone know why ?

Don't we all kinda do this?

The further out I get from my breakup, the more I see how dysfunctional exBPD really was. At the same time, I am hit over and over with how similarly we feel in certain situations, it's just that my actions and feelings aren't as extreme. I have enough self awareness that I am less likely to act on them, so less likely to have severe consequences. It's been humbling.

[Skip]

The further out I get from my breakup, the more I see how dysfunctional exBPD really was. At the same time, I am hit over and over with how similarly we feel in certain situations, it's just that my actions and feelings aren't as extreme. I have enough self awareness that I am less likely to act on them, so less likely to have severe consequences. It's been humbling.

Very well said.

Disordered people would rather open a door for you to walk through than walk through it themselves, because then if you don't walk through it, well, that's your fault.

Good observation on the motivating factor.    I'm not sure I limit this only to people with BPD - it's all about fear of rejection and we are all on that scale somewhere.

When you have been abandoned and rejected in the past, it is hard to learn to trust people. Many pwBPD have a very hard time trusting people because they expect you are going to eventually let them down.

Really good thread!

[MapleBob]

Disordered people would rather open a door for you to walk through than walk through it themselves, because then if you don't walk through it, well, that's your fault.

Good observation on the motivating factor.    I'm not sure I limit this only to people with BPD - it's all about fear of rejection and we are all on that scale somewhere.

Yeah, true. I could probably rephrase that as "mature adults who know what they want" WON'T do that to you.

[guy4caligirl]

IMO , the bottom line is , after reaching the one year and a half or the B/U , with little or no contact , i came to grip with separating the disorder and my Ex  BPDGF . The fog is lifted way high  and I can see .

AS now that we're talking everyday for hours and soon perhaps meeting as she expressed her desire to do so ,  like she opened the door and wants me to walk her in like Maplebob suggested .

I realize that after I learned what BPD behavior is all about and educated my self for me not her and I am also very ready, if reconciling is an option .(Not Sure yet and not going to ask and pressure her )

When we talk we have fun , per example , when she doesn't make any sense in what she says ,I don't jump on her or try to voice my opposite opinion that was is the past trying to fix her .

If non women love to circle and don't come out with any results, the best way is to listen,  SET  and validate the BPD, and love them Just The Way They Are ,or if you don't move on time will heal .

BTW They are very interesting people , that's why it's hard on us to forget totally about them that quick .

[DreamGirl]

We're all human.

So I really don't think it's a "they" thing. I mean I think it's good to understand traits and to understand where those traits stem from and how to better your communication skills.

But to say this is something "they" do --- isn't really correct.

I think we, as humans, all do this in certain ways.

We all deal with abandonment fears. We all sometimes don't say what we mean out of fear of embarrassment, rejection, or our prideful ways. We all act immaturely when our emotions get the best of us. We sometimes lie to get out of trouble or exaggerate to make ourselves look better. 

I think that's what is important to realize on our end of it. You're dealing with an emotionally charged person who struggles in different ways --- the emotions are real and valid --- it's the dysfunctional way that those emotions are dealt with. It's knowing that a person suffering from this disorder experience the emotions on a higher scale and usually why the behavior tends to be on a higher scale. A normal hiccup in a relationship suddenly becomes a crisis. 

BTW They are very interesting people , that's why it's hard on us to forget totally about them that quick .

Perhaps.

I also think there is a dynamic within us that makes what is so uncomfortable to others... .comfortable to us. One of our long time members landed himself in a relationship that was everything he ever said he wanted --- a loving relationship with give and take and of mutual respect. Low level of drama. He also admitted that there was a boredom there. Arguments were tempered and the stress low. He felt a little lost really.

He had to become accustomed to a new kind of normal because that is all he ever knew.

To me, everyone has a fit and deserves to love and be loved. I have my own demons and my own dysfunctions too. There's a reason that my husband and I are together --- why we have drama, why we have dysfunction, and why we keep trudging along.

It's like Skip always says, we really do find our emotional equal in these relationships.

[Joem678]

Dreamgirl,

Isn't the idea of "we all do this" a little skewed?  From my understanding, BPDs feel more intensely than a non.  So, everyone has a fear of abandonment, but for them it is on a more intense scale.

[DreamGirl]

Dreamgirl,

Isn't the idea of "we all do this" a little skewed?  From my understanding, BPDs feel more intensely than a non.  So, everyone has a fear of abandonment, but for them it is on a more intense scale.

Agreed.

I thought I said this very thing when I said... .



It's knowing that a person suffering from this disorder experience the emotions on a higher scale and usually why the behavior tends to be on a higher scale. A normal hiccup in a relationship suddenly becomes a crisis. 

[guy4caligirl]

There is misconception from most of us here ,deeply hurt by the break up and in the fog , I was one of them ,and that is , our ex BPD partners came from another planet .

I think when we start to differentiate between the disorder and the person it could be that we are in the final steps of healing .

And what else  ?

[Grey Kitty]

Disordered people would rather open a door for you to walk through than walk through it themselves, because then if you don't walk through it, well, that's your fault.

Good observation on the motivating factor.    I'm not sure I limit this only to people with BPD - it's all about fear of rejection and we are all on that scale somewhere.

Yeah, true. I could probably rephrase that as "mature adults who know what they want" WON'T do that to you.

Or more humbly, I'd say that "mature adults" will try not to do that, but have weak moments too, and will make it better later if they do stuff this one up.

I sure try... .but that doesn't mean it always works!

[MapleBob]

Disordered people would rather open a door for you to walk through than walk through it themselves, because then if you don't walk through it, well, that's your fault.

Good observation on the motivating factor.    I'm not sure I limit this only to people with BPD - it's all about fear of rejection and we are all on that scale somewhere.

Yeah, true. I could probably rephrase that as "mature adults who know what they want" WON'T do that to you.

Or more humbly, I'd say that "mature adults" will try not to do that, but have weak moments too, and will make it better later if they do stuff this one up.

I sure try... .but that doesn't mean it always works!

Yes, that's very very true, and well put. Thank you!

[C.Stein]

I think when we start to differentiate between the disorder and the person it could be that we are in the final steps of healing .

Is this even possible?  The disorder is part of who they are.  Is it right or productive to differentiate between the two?

I think it does help however to realize where certain behavior is rooted.  This allows you to be more consistent in your own behavior and less likely to be triggered by behavior you might "normally" perceive as a personal attack.

[whitebackatcha]

Or more humbly, I'd say that "mature adults" will try not to do that, but have weak moments too, and will make it better later if they do stuff this one up.

I sure try... .but that doesn't mean it always works!

This was a recent realization of mine, although more the flip side of it. I wasn't perfect in my relationship with exBPD, and I couldn't figure out how that didn't mean she had a right to reject me. I finally realized that it wasn't that I wasn't perfect (which I could never be anyway), it was that she wasn't able to allow for imperfection. She was unable to see that "mature adults" messed up, but that didn't mean they didn't deserve forgiveness. It seems incredibly obvious now, but I honestly struggled to figure that out.

[whitebackatcha]

I think it does help however to realize where certain behavior is rooted.  This allows you to be more consistent in your own behavior and less likely to be triggered by behavior you might "normally" perceive as a personal attack.

I think you're right, but I also think it might be difficult to do this without becoming dismissive?

[C.Stein]

I think you're right, but I also think it might be difficult to do this without becoming dismissive?

Good question.  The only way I know of is instead of absorbing and blocking the toxic stuff that is spewed in your direction, learn to let it flow over you.   Flow over not flow through ... .make sense?

[whitebackatcha]

Good question.  The only way I know of is instead of absorbing and blocking the toxic stuff that is spewed in your direction, learn to let it flow over you.   Flow over not flow through ... .make sense?

Definitely.

[EaglesJuju]

Eagle ,

Can you please elaborate on self loathing ?

Are you saying when others see who they are , even if those who put up with them, do they start looking for a way out ?

Self-loathing is dislike for yourself, feelings of being unlovable, self-disgust, self-contempt, feelings of inferiority, self-criticism, and self-revulsion. They believe that they deserve to be treated horribly. 

People who self-loathe tend to come from a childhood where they were invalidated, ignored, blamed, abused etc. When that happens, a child tends to internalize and associate the behavior of their caretakers as their fault.  After awhile, these beliefs and thoughts become reinforced .  Everything thing is their fault, because they are bad, evil, or a terrible person. 

They believe that everyone perceives them in the same way that they view themselves, fundamentally flawed. In a roundabout way, sometimes a person who suffers from self-loathing will be "selfless" and let you go. They believe that you do not love them because their own self-perception tells them they are unlovable and evil. Also, they do this because they do not want to hurt you.  From what their past has told them, they always are at fault and hurt everyone.

[livednlearned]

Why is it so hard for an ex BPD  to put her guards down when thinking of reconciling and be straight forward ?

Does anyone know why ?

A lot of the emotions and responses around abandonment and rejection are similar, and on a spectrum, like others have said. Similar to sadness, and grief, and depression, and then degrees of severity across the depressive spectrum.

Someone who suffers from major depression struggles to lift his head off the pillow and the thought of taking a shower takes everything out of him, he may even need help. Someone who is sad can go about their everyday activities, and have the strength to reach out for support. I think it's the same with BPD, there are degrees of severity, and degrees of stress, and for the most part functioning is generally lower than, say, someone with a typical fear of rejection.

It can be a finely tuned balancing act to manage expectations given the severity involved, yet keep empathy and boundaries intact.

It's also a constant process of self awareness to check my own thinking, to see if I am imposing my own interpretation of behavior on someone who is functioning in survival mode.

[Confused?]

IMO , the bottom line is , after reaching the one year and a half or the B/U , with little or no contact , i came to grip with separating the disorder and my Ex  BPDGF . The fog is lifted way high  and I can see .

AS now that we're talking everyday for hours and soon perhaps meeting as she expressed her desire to do so ,  like she opened the door and wants me to walk her in like Maplebob suggested .

I realize that after I learned what BPD behavior is all about and educated my self for me not her and I am also very ready, if reconciling is an option .(Not Sure yet and not going to ask and pressure her )

When we talk we have fun , per example , when she doesn't make any sense in what she says ,I don't jump on her or try to voice my opposite opinion that was is the past trying to fix her .

If non women love to circle and don't come out with any results, the best way is to listen,  SET  and validate the BPD, and love them Just The Way They Are ,or if you don't move on time will heal .

BTW They are very interesting people , that's why it's hard on us to forget totally about them that quick .

What do you mean about separating the disorder from your ex?

[whitebackatcha]

It's also a constant process of self awareness to check my own thinking, to see if I am imposing my own interpretation of behavior on someone who is functioning in survival mode.

This is going to be my meditation for the day. Great insight.