Wondering if anyone has successfully detached but remained friends

[steve195915]

I was wondering if anyone has sucessfully been able detach from the romantic relationship with their BPDex yet still maintain contact and be friends even if it's for short time just to relieve the pain from going NC.  Assuming that the BPDex says they want to keep contact.   The BPDex may just want to keep you hanging until they find your replacement or they are just pushing you away temporarily and expect you to go back on their whim.  But if you realize that and also realize that a life with them would be hell so getting back is not an option for you, can it be done successfully?  

[Confused?]

No. The answer is no. You can be civil with them. Like if you share a kid or something. But after what many of us went through, to ever consider our exes as a friend would be disrespectful to ourselves. I am nice to my ex the every few months she contacts me but it is only because I am friends with a family member of hers.

[hashtag_loyal]

I guess I'm kind of there, but a lot depends on what your definition of "friends" is.

I have not seen my ex in-person in 1.5 months, but we still interact on social media from time to time, she texts me every few days and we have talked on the phone a few times. None of the conversations really cover what I would consider "friends" type stuff. Mostly it is just her trying to guilt me into recycling while I subtly ask her questions designed to make her aware of her previous actions.

Neither one of us is really succeeding with our own objectives, but I guess we are friendly enough (i.e. we don't hate each other) to be considered "friends".

I feel like we will stay like this for the long-term. Once she finds a replacement I expect to hear from her less, but I don't think she'll ever truly let me leave her life completely.

I've fully detached from her at this point, so the contact no longer bothers me. I mostly just use it as an opportunity to learn more about BPD. Who knows? Maybe 2 years from now I'll be on here telling everyone about how my ex has progressed so much that she no longer qualifies for a dx, but I doubt it.

[enlighten me]

I think it depends on how you define friendship.

The problem with BPD is that any friendship is one sided just like an intimate relationship. It boils down to if theyre getting what they want then its fine but don't expect anything in return. Unless it suits them. It may sound bitter but I assure you Im not being bitter just pragmatic.

[Herodias]

Mine wants to be friends but his gf is pregnant and I think he wants to use me... .can't do it. I miss what I had in the beginning... I miss being married even if we are not divorced. Really messed up!

[steve195915]

I guess I'm kind of there, but a lot depends on what your definition of "friends" is.

I have not seen my ex in-person in 1.5 months, but we still interact on social media from time to time, she texts me every few days and we have talked on the phone a few times. None of the conversations really cover what I would consider "friends" type stuff. Mostly it is just her trying to guilt me into recycling while I subtly ask her questions designed to make her aware of her previous actions.

Neither one of us is really succeeding with our own objectives, but I guess we are friendly enough (i.e. we don't hate each other) to be considered "friends".

I feel like we will stay like this for the long-term. Once she finds a replacement I expect to hear from her less, but I don't think she'll ever truly let me leave her life completely.

I've fully detached from her at this point, so the contact no longer bothers me. I mostly just use it as an opportunity to learn more about BPD. Who knows? Maybe 2 years from now I'll be on here telling everyone about how my ex has progressed so much that she no longer qualifies for a dx, but I doubt it.

Thanks for sharing your story, I had a few follow-up questions.  When you did break up did you go NC to detach or did you remain in contact?  

Also the contact you have now seems very unfulfilling but does it satisfy something for you, like knowing how she's doing or maybe provides affirmation you did the right thing by detaching as you can now see her for what she is?  

Have you tried to divert the conversation from her trying to guilt you in recycling by just saying lets not go there but I'd like to know whats new in your life? or is any effort to have a 'friends' conversation fruitless?

[goateeki]

I'm in perhaps an unusual situation.  Divorced her (final earlier this year) and moved on some time ago.  In a wonderful, happy relationship.  Ex wife insisted that she would feel terrible if we did not remain friends, but at the same time rejects any effort I make at normal friendship.  We have two young children. From my perspective, the prospect of her seeing me is, to her, something that provokes huge amounts of fear and discomfort.  As far as I know, she is not in a relationship and has not been in one since we broke up, unless you count the ones she has with her fellow bitter, middle aged divorced female friends.

I'd be happy to have dinner and shoot the s%^t with her, but my suggestion that we do this, even for the ostensible purpose of discussing the kids, causes real discomfort to her. 

I sometimes wonder if it is because I've moved on and am in a happy relationship. 

[steve195915]

I think it depends on how you define friendship.

The problem with BPD is that any friendship is one sided just like an intimate relationship. It boils down to if theyre getting what they want then its fine but don't expect anything in return. Unless it suits them. It may sound bitter but I assure you Im not being bitter just pragmatic.

I understand completely that the pwBPD is remaining friends just to get their needs satisfied, like keeping you there so they can get back with you on their whim if they so please.  But if you have set boundaries maybe you can use them to meet your needs, like alleviating the pain from going NC, to have someone to do things with or talk to, while at the same time being indifferent in your mind, thinking and observing their behaviors so you can detach from the emotional dependency and remove any thoughts that you would actually want a life with them.  While they are just keeping you on the hook I think it may work but when they decide they want you back and you don't jump, I can see things turning difficult.

[CharWood]

In my experience, what happens when you sincerely try to detach while allowing them in your life as a "friend" is what is happening now to me. they will do whatever they can do to pull you back. it is a dance. push... .pull... .push... .pull... .do they intend to ever let you go? who knows. keeping you as their "friend" is just to maintain a quasi-relationship or to just use you as supply... or both.

great example: I have to live with my BPD ex until we sell our house and move. she endlessly talks about how glad she is we broke up, how she is so happy without me, how she cannot wait to find someone else... .yadda yadda yadda... .but she wants to be "best friends", she wants to follow me back west and be "roommates",  things never last with replacement attempts, she refers to women I speak with as "my wh*res" and says that if I ever had a new woman in my life that she doesn't want to be around her... .just craziness. push pull.

last Saturday, mine told me that she loves me and kissed me on the cheek for the first time since breaking up with me, after buying us surprise NBA tickets and paying for a day trip for us just to "be nice to me since she didn't do anything for my birthday back on nov 24th... ." is that a "friend" move? but she "loves me as a best friend"... .see. they want their cake and to eat it too. it would never be a true friendship. always a dance with them. its like they do not belong to you but you belong to them, broken up or not. its weird.

I don't think it is possible to be friends. the longer the relationship is with the BPD, the more difficult. I feel like if they stay around long, especially knowing that mine never physically cheated on me for over 4 years... .then they form as much of a connection as they can possibly muster up with you. I am like the good parent - the stability she never had and desires deep down but is terrified of. ... I hold her accountable and, in many ways, I am the only thing in her life that keeps her from diving completely off the deep end. I think she is terrified, in a way, of losing me. but I cannot be sure. Anyhow, I do not think it is possible to be friends with a BPD ex without it being dysfunctional and boundaries being crossed. Trust me, you will never fully detach.

[hashtag_loyal]

When you did break up did you go NC to detach or did you remain in contact?  

I'd say closer to LC than NC. We have not yet gone NC longer than 12 days:

- I broke up with her in mid-October. She came by 2 days later to get her stuff; the last I ever saw her in person.

- Six days later I text her informing her about the STD she gave me. This is the only time I have ever reached out to her first.

- Eight days later she reaches out (text) again. After some small talk, she asks if I hate her. 

- That next week I get a couple of pointless snapchats.

- Another week goes by before she sends an "I miss you" text. We text a bunch, but I ultimately tell her to delete my # since she isn't being honest.

- Don't hear from her for another 12 days before she comments on one of my IG posts.

- I last heard from her 4 days ago.

I think the periods of NC helped me detach, but clearly not her.

Also the contact you have now seems very unfulfilling but does it satisfy something for you, like knowing how she's doing or maybe provides affirmation you did the right thing by detaching as you can now see her for what she is?  

Yes. I definitely benefit from the reminders of why to never go back. I repeatedly call her out on things, but it never sticks. Honestly, the only "satisfaction" I get from the contact is the reminder that she hasn't killed herself. She's incredibly depressed. :'(

Have you tried to divert the conversation from her trying to guilt you in recycling by just saying lets not go there but I'd like to know whats new in your life? or is any effort to have a 'friends' conversation fruitless?

I would say that any effort towards a "friends" conversation is fruitless. I basically just try to validate her feelings when she unloads on me, but without getting her hopes up. Such as "I understand that you are hurt and frustrated, but you didn't lose everything. Can you help me understand your frustrations?".

Bottom line: Enlighten Me is right; you need to have realistic expectations for your pwBPD and your "friendship" is always going to be 100% about him/her and 0% about your needs.

[Joem678]

I would say no.  As you heal, you will gain clarity on what you've gone through.  Because of this, your emotions will change.  Currently, I feel afraid of my wife of 19 years.  We are currently in NC for two months.  I've just realized all the harm she's caused me.  I can't trust her with my life.  But I am literally afraid of her.

[FannyB]

Been split over 10 months. Text every few days. Go out socially once in a while if it suits us both. Neither has attempted to re-kindle the romantic side of the relationship. Is it a friendship or a Mexican stand-off? Even I don't know really.  I like to know she's doing okay and I care about her. The 'friendship' is very low maintenance for me and I guess it's a pleasant surprise for her to have an ex that neither despises her nor stalks her!


Fanny

[enlighten me]

I think it depends on how you define friendship.

The problem with BPD is that any friendship is one sided just like an intimate relationship. It boils down to if theyre getting what they want then its fine but don't expect anything in return. Unless it suits them. It may sound bitter but I assure you Im not being bitter just pragmatic.

I understand completely that the pwBPD is remaining friends just to get their needs satisfied, like keeping you there so they can get back with you on their whim if they so please.  But if you have set boundaries maybe you can use them to meet your needs, like alleviating the pain from going NC, to have someone to do things with or talk to, while at the same time being indifferent in your mind, thinking and observing their behaviors so you can detach from the emotional dependency and remove any thoughts that you would actually want a life with them.  While they are just keeping you on the hook I think it may work but when they decide they want you back and you don't jump, I can see things turning difficult.

I don't think it is possible to detach while in a relationship with them even as friends. If you think of the times when you have been devalued and then pulled back in how do you think you would cope if they tried to pull you back in? There are times I doubted my own sanity as my exgf seemed so plausible and level headed. It was these times when she was friendly that I was sucked back in. Now I keep my defence up and don't fall for it but Im not friends with her I just co parent.

Its all or nothing Im afraid.

[steve195915]

I think it depends on how you define friendship.

The problem with BPD is that any friendship is one sided just like an intimate relationship. It boils down to if theyre getting what they want then its fine but don't expect anything in return. Unless it suits them. It may sound bitter but I assure you Im not being bitter just pragmatic.

I understand completely that the pwBPD is remaining friends just to get their needs satisfied, like keeping you there so they can get back with you on their whim if they so please.  But if you have set boundaries maybe you can use them to meet your needs, like alleviating the pain from going NC, to have someone to do things with or talk to, while at the same time being indifferent in your mind, thinking and observing their behaviors so you can detach from the emotional dependency and remove any thoughts that you would actually want a life with them.  While they are just keeping you on the hook I think it may work but when they decide they want you back and you don't jump, I can see things turning difficult.

I don't think it is possible to detach while in a relationship with them even as friends. If you think of the times when you have been devalued and then pulled back in how do you think you would cope if they tried to pull you back in? There are times I doubted my own sanity as my exgf seemed so plausible and level headed. It was these times when she was friendly that I was sucked back in. Now I keep my defence up and don't fall for it but Im not friends with her I just co parent.

Its all or nothing Im afraid.

Yes I understand how they can act so perfect when they want something and as master manipulators they sure know how to suck you in.  To counter that I was thinking on having a library of all the nasty texts and notes on all the terrible things they've done (and refer to them continuously) , being aware of the BPD traits and that its an incurable disease, knowing that if you go back it would just repeat. I guess the hard part is smiling and laughing with them when in your mind you are thinking of all the evil they caused. 

[JaneStorm]

I think it depends on how you define friendship.

The problem with BPD is that any friendship is one sided just like an intimate relationship. It boils down to if theyre getting what they want then its fine but don't expect anything in return. Unless it suits them. It may sound bitter but I assure you Im not being bitter just pragmatic.

I understand completely that the pwBPD is remaining friends just to get their needs satisfied, like keeping you there so they can get back with you on their whim if they so please.  But if you have set boundaries maybe you can use them to meet your needs, like alleviating the pain from going NC, to have someone to do things with or talk to, while at the same time being indifferent in your mind, thinking and observing their behaviors so you can detach from the emotional dependency and remove any thoughts that you would actually want a life with them.  While they are just keeping you on the hook I think it may work but when they decide they want you back and you don't jump, I can see things turning difficult.

I don't think it is possible to detach while in a relationship with them even as friends. If you think of the times when you have been devalued and then pulled back in how do you think you would cope if they tried to pull you back in? There are times I doubted my own sanity as my exgf seemed so plausible and level headed. It was these times when she was friendly that I was sucked back in. Now I keep my defence up and don't fall for it but Im not friends with her I just co parent.

Its all or nothing Im afraid.

I could not be a 'friend' to my ex-lover and listen to a rerun of relationship drama with him and another woman. That is not friendship; that is self-harm. I can have a moratorium on sex while he attempts to work on these issues but if he abandons his path, I don't need to know him. As is, I don't want to hear, I need evidence.

[SummerStorm]

I've tried to be friends with mine, which I thought would be easy to do because we were never even in an official relationship.  However, it just doesn't work.  Could it maybe work a year from now?  Maybe. 

She is so afraid of engulfment that she doesn't actually hang out with her partners or her friends.  I've known her for a year, and I can count on one hand the number of times we actually went out and did something besides sit and watch TV.  Her ex once said to me, "We never even went to see a movie.  It was pathetic."  She does go places with her sister, but I think that has more to do with keeping up appearances. 

She goes around saying that she doesn't care if she has friends or not, but then she contacts me whenever she is lonely and wants someone to talk to.  I recently reconnected with her, but as soon as the conversation became more serious than talking about Pokemon or her job, she shut me out.  She wants attention and wants people to like her, but then she gets tired of those people very quickly.  Whenever she is getting ready to break up with someone, she immediately starts tweeting, looking for attention.  She can go months without a single tweet and then suddenly start up again.  Then, she gets on Tinder.  Finally, she contacts me.  I'm convinced that's why she contacted me in August and contacted me two weeks ago.  She did pop up on there in October, but I think she already had a replacement lined up at that time or was still painting me black, so she never contacted me. 

At the end of the day, she wants me to be single.  It would piss her off very badly if I got into a serious relationship.  Back when she was with her ex, in about April or so, she told me I should try Tinder.  I was offended because she knew I had feelings for her.  She later admitted that she really didn't want me to get over her and find someone else.       

[thisworld]

With my ex, this is how I see the situation:

I really wouldn't need an enemy if I remained friends with him.

I had ample opportunity to observe and witness how he uses and devalues his "friends" to feed his ego, how he gossips about them while presenting a completely different, friendly facade to them. He gives them the impression that they are his confidantes and the woman at home is horrible. To the woman at home - who happened to be myself for a while- he presents the same thing the other way around. It's not about friends, lovers, who is good, who is not. It's all about him. So, simply, we are all instruments in a web and he is orchestrating it. I have no reason whatsoever to expect that our "friendship" would be different and I would be a special friend whom he doesn't blackpaint to others all the time. That would be denial and even narcissistic. I don't want to be narcissistic, I don't want to deceive myself and I want to be honest with myself, be my real self. That is, the moment I'm having these questions or ideas in my mind about him, it's obvious that I don't trust him. (I never have worries like this with real friends). Then why am I trying to befriend a person whom I actually don't trust? Why don't I accept my own feelings about him and still hoping that it will be different? What am I still trying to cure?

He will use my innocent presence against other, new, less experienced women to make them feel insecure, threatened in some way. I don't want to be an instrument in this. I'm a woman, I don't want to contribute to other women's hurt the way I was hurt. I'm not denying that it could be very ego-satisfying; luckily, I'm not that pathetic.

He will gossip so much about people, the moment he talks about anything outside music or hobbies, that's his main line of communication: what people are doing to him or how we should be loving - oh, really? If I tell my honest opinion, he will most probably attempt to shred me to pieces  or think that I'm doing this because of our past, if I say what he wants to hear, I will be contributing to something which I didn't like in our relationship. I don't see any other future in our "friendship".

I want to be comfortable with my friends, be able to share my opinions freely, be my real self. With him, due to our circumstances, I was becoming a shadow of myself trying to keep a very volatile and dangerous situation under control and to make him more comfortable. This is only one part of my character, I'm not only this. The moment I am fully myself -even if I don't bring up the past etc- he will not like what he sees. I don't want friends with whom I have to censor myself. I have a schizophrenic friend. He is lucid sometimes, and sometimes he is paranoid to the point that he truly believes I inserted a chip into him. Once he attempted to attack me and he is huge. He may be verbally abusive,  I may be embarrassed if he does it in public because I keep silent and see pitiful looks on people's faces - I don't care anymore, he is my friend- or I may all of a sudden find myself sitting across someone in a cafe talking to his TV remote control like it were his mobile phone. Still, we are friends. I communicate with him in a limited way. I choose to accept his reality, never impose ours on him, I clear hallucinatory enemies from his way sometimes and we have a friendship. But you know what, he isn't manipulative. Even though I can never expect normal things from him, I know that he will not "knowingly" deceive me, lie to me and enjoy it, have a dupe high simply from deceiving me. I can be a friend to my ex to a degree, he cannot be to me.    

At the moment, now that we are separate, he has had a 180 degree character turn and is doing everything he thought I wanted him to do during our relationship. He is reporting these to me as well. It feels like he is trying to show me what I have lost. Still, there isn't a single shred of respect or responsibility in this. He is doing what he thinks people ideally do but he is far far from it. Like, I lost my job because of our circumstances - I'm not blaming him, it was my responsibility and I told him that I was cool about it-, I'm in debt created in this relationship, and he also stole from me, my house  is full of broken stuff and also half completed technical stuff that I will have to pay now, I want to go and have my health checked because his sexual history was a big lie, I'm very tired because of trying to keep a cool head between rages, attacks and parasuicides. Honestly, I'm not blaming him for what he did, I told this to him, too. He didn't take me hostage, I chose to do these things and I can sort out my life. But, please, give me a bit of time you know. Stop reporting to me all the time about how good you are doing or loving you are. Start your friendship a bit later, you know, not as soon as you get off your bus. He isn't doing those out of friendship, it is his separation anxiety and soon maybe he will be feeling that I'm hurting him tremendously because I'm not responding to him. To me, his behaviour is selfish and boring and tiring, whatever his reasons, his illness is. If I communicate, I will have to consider him all the time but I'm in a difficult situation myself - and I haven't written a word about my broken heart, my hurt feelings as a woman. If he can't see it this way, if giving someone some space after all this doesn't occur to him, if he thinks this is what "loving" people do - I so get preached about this- then he is very mistaken. He loves me perhaps, but even it our best times, he loves and loved me as an instrument or extension of himself. I don't see that as a good basis for friendship and don't want it. I would be deceiving him, too and running after "crumbles" myself. Other than that, yes, we had great fun at times but I can have great fun myself or less fun with other friends but be grateful to them that their fun doesn't come at such a price.

     

   

[Learning Fast]

The problem with BPD is that any friendship is one sided just like an intimate relationship. It boils down to if theyre getting what they want then its fine but don't expect anything in return. Unless it suits them. It may sound bitter but I assure you Im not being bitter just pragmatic.

Bottom line: Enlighten Me is right; you need to have realistic expectations for your pwBPD and your "friendship" is always going to be 100% about him/her and 0% about your needs.

EM---you're not being bitter---simply realistic.  These comments are very true as I've experienced much of this in the 4-5 times that we've met since the split back in June.  Ironically, not a whole lot changes---she is still positioning herself as a victim with very little interest in what was going on in my life.  What did visibly change was that there was very little emotional connection and our past experiences together were basically viewed as an afterthought.  In my judgement you simply have to set the expectation bar very low while accepting whatever relationship develops as though your ex is more of an "acquaintance" than a "friend".

[LostGhost]

The problem with BPD is that any friendship is one sided just like an intimate relationship. It boils down to if theyre getting what they want then its fine but don't expect anything in return. Unless it suits them. It may sound bitter but I assure you Im not being bitter just pragmatic.

Bottom line: Enlighten Me is right; you need to have realistic expectations for your pwBPD and your "friendship" is always going to be 100% about him/her and 0% about your needs.

EM---you're not being bitter---simply realistic.  These comments are very true as I've experienced much of this in the 4-5 times that we've met since the split back in June.  Ironically, not a whole lot changes---she is still positioning herself as a victim with very little interest in what was going on in my life.  What did visibly change was that there was very little emotional connection and our past experiences together were basically viewed as an afterthought.  In my judgement you simply have to set the expectation bar very low while accepting whatever relationship develops as though your ex is more of an "acquaintance" than a "friend".

Just wanted to say I agree with this absolutely. I am in this situation with my ex since we work together. Our "friendship" is completely one sided. She portrays herself as a victim and our past history is treated as though it never happened, two years together that just cease to exist. We were going out to dinners and movies at first but as replacements started liming up, we don't do anything any more. I bring her coffee and food sometimes or little gifts and this is never reciprocated. I take an interest in her life and ask questions, she's unconcerned with mine or how I'm doing.

I promise you that you don't want this for yourself. It amounts to or tutor and does tallow you to move on. I wish I would have tried hader to remain NC.

If I died tomorrow, it would be nothing more than an insignificant footnote to her. This is not an exaggeration.

[enlighten me]

I think it depends on how you define friendship.

The problem with BPD is that any friendship is one sided just like an intimate relationship. It boils down to if theyre getting what they want then its fine but don't expect anything in return. Unless it suits them. It may sound bitter but I assure you Im not being bitter just pragmatic.

I understand completely that the pwBPD is remaining friends just to get their needs satisfied, like keeping you there so they can get back with you on their whim if they so please.  But if you have set boundaries maybe you can use them to meet your needs, like alleviating the pain from going NC, to have someone to do things with or talk to, while at the same time being indifferent in your mind, thinking and observing their behaviors so you can detach from the emotional dependency and remove any thoughts that you would actually want a life with them.  While they are just keeping you on the hook I think it may work but when they decide they want you back and you don't jump, I can see things turning difficult.

I don't think it is possible to detach while in a relationship with them even as friends. If you think of the times when you have been devalued and then pulled back in how do you think you would cope if they tried to pull you back in? There are times I doubted my own sanity as my exgf seemed so plausible and level headed. It was these times when she was friendly that I was sucked back in. Now I keep my defence up and don't fall for it but Im not friends with her I just co parent.

Its all or nothing Im afraid.

Yes I understand how they can act so perfect when they want something and as master manipulators they sure know how to suck you in.  To counter that I was thinking on having a library of all the nasty texts and notes on all the terrible things they've done (and refer to them continuously) , being aware of the BPD traits and that its an incurable disease, knowing that if you go back it would just repeat. I guess the hard part is smiling and laughing with them when in your mind you are thinking of all the evil they caused. 

What kind of friendship would that be when your constantly on guard and reminding yourself they are evil?

If your wanting to do a case study on your ex then you can learn more from afar than when you are up close. They do not act the same when around you. They do not let you know what they are thinking. They certainly don't tell you anything they don't want you to know.

What Im curious about is why you really want to remain friends with someone like this? You've accepted she has an illness, you say it cant be cured (it can be improved to a point it isn't as destructive but that takes time and effort on their behalf) So what is it that you would expect from a friendship?

I too felt I could be friends with my ex wife but really I was just hoping for a recycle. I got the recycle and then got dumped and she moved away with the guy that she had met online while we were supposed to be working on our marriage.

[Jazzy]

Steve195915,

I tried to remain friends with my BPD ex for three months after he dumped me for my replacement.This is only because HE  wanted to "remain good friends" . I loved him ( I still do) with all my heart and the thought of not having him in my life was so overwhelming that I continued to remain in touch with him. However we spoke only when it was convenient for him to do so: he never answered my calls or responded to my texts... It was extremely painful because not only did it hurt to see someone else in the position I had occupied in his life for 6 years, he turned into a mean , cruel person, a far cry from the gentle man I had known throughout our relationship. The mask was truly off.  Friends don't behave the way he did. For the sake of my sanity and unable to bear the pain and insults I went NC 7 weeks ago. Although I miss him every single moment of the day  and lost what I considered was my best friend,  at least he does not have the power to hurt me more than he already has.

From my own experience, once they devalue you, it s impossible to have any sort of contact with them anymore. It is better to stay away.

[Pretty Woman]

Mine cheated on me, lied to people we knew about how I was treating her (told some people she was "afraid for her life"... .when she physically assaulted me), threatened a restraining order between breakups, left me during some of the most stressful times in my life (dad in hospital, best friend of 15yrs un-friending me because of my same sex relationship with the BPD ex).

Is that a friend? H_ll to the NO!

After four years of on and off make up break ups she finally discarded me after getting a dog together and moving a mile from each other.  And she discarded me for a mutual friend who has NO idea what she is getting into.

(heh-heh) 

I am seven months removed from my relationship with 0 contact.

I have no desire to ever speak to nor look at her ever again in my lifetime.

I know her exes. Some are FB “friends” with her. Others are in solid relationships and may get together with her on rare occasion. Having met the exes a common denominator is all are co-dependant and want to be “liked”. Who doesn’t want to be liked, right? But they want validation from someone who treated them like garbage.

I don’t need validation from someone like that.

She has cheated on ALL her exes and bounced between them…some years later.

Another poster on here mentioned that our relationship with our exes are one-sided. This is true. I have learned a lot in this relationship. While I regret staying for four years I will say I learned a lot about my own issues. I am currently in a new relationship and realize how I contributed in triggering my ex. I tend to push pull myself out of fear of being hurt. The only difference…my new guy and I can talk about it. We are rational adults.  He isn’t running off with my best friend. He is patient and kind.  He is someone I can trust.

As time goes by it gets better, you just have to stay NC.  Keep in mind, even being friends with a BPD is one-sided. If they treated you horribly in a love relationship just imagine how bad they will treat you without any commitment at all? Food for thought.

PW

[burritoman]

... .left me during some of the most stressful times in my life (dad in hospital, best friend of 15yrs un-friending me because of my same sex relationship with the BPD ex).

Yep, same here. Over the summer my father was being tested for cancer to be piled onto the rest of his health problems. My sister made an emergency trip up here. It was a tense time. Turns out it was the same week as her birthday. Initially she told me not to worry about coming down to see her as she'd be at work and they won't be having the usual work party. Then by the end of the week the party was back on. She knew I couldn't go, but she held that against me and used it as grounds to break up. Though she was calling me within a few days begging me to take her back. Her attitude during the entire time was "consider the cancer a blessing, as it's a much better way to go than what he'll end up going through." A valid point, but not the comforting words you'd expect from your girlfriend.

A month after that my father was in the hospital for three weeks, and she became increasingly annoyed with me wanting to talk to her about it, which frankly wasn't that much. Another month after that we were done.

She would always say that my ex girlfriend before her bailed on me and showed little sympathy for my father (he's been sick for over 5 years). She on the other hand was there during his largest decline, and early on, before he was bedridden and still mobile on his own, he would cook her food while I was away at work. They'd eat together and talk.

The point of all of this is... .she bailed on me at a time when I really do need her. Does that sound like a friend I want?

She's got me in limbo right now. We're still friends on FB but haven't spoken. She's also friends with all of my friends and family still, and will occasionally like their posts. I'm only keeping her as a friend on there until there's some sort of resolution to this because I still have thousands of dollars worth of her things. If she starts openly seeing someone else before this is resolved or lets this drag out too long, I have no qualms about cutting her straight out of my life. On the flip side... .I want to work things out with this person. It's crazy how they can get under your skin.

[CharWood]

Im telling you guys. I have to live with my BPD ex for another month until we unload our house together. we have been broken up since mid july. I would say my feelings for her diminished significantly back in October... .she told me she loves me last weekend and kissed my cheek right on the corner of my mouth and I pulled my face away from her... .when I did not say I love her back it greatly upset her. we were together over 4 years. She did all of this after swearing up and down that she is done, on to "better things", over me, I am just her "roommate", she is not attracted top me (though in the same breath told me I am good looking and that she liked our sex life when we were together but that she is over me now)... .its a crazy rollercoaster with a BPD ex. they cannot be "just friends"... .its like you are theirs... .their object after the breakup. But, they can do whatever they want. its a quasi-relationship.  after she told me she loved me, I told her to respect my boundaries and do not try to hold my arm or hand anymore... .she ignored me. then she got mad and isolated herself the next day,... .said I make her feel "bad about herself"... .funny because she says horrible things to me and the only thing I said is that I am not attracted to her anymore and we are broken up.  its nuts. she has internet strangers she texts and talks to on the phone... .but she triangulates them with me.  That's a "friendship"? really? Is it a friendly thing to do to show me selfies of her and ask if I think she is attractive, pretty, hot? and when I tell her she is pretty but I do not find her attractive, get pouty and upset. Is it a friend thing to do to follow me around the house asking if I think she is sexy? is it? nope. I am sure there are similar situations to mine that nons are experience with their BPD... .maybe not all borderlines are like that... .but I do not see myself and my ex remaining friends... .I think it is impossible.

[Learning Fast]

"The mask was truly off"

So very true.  We connected at a local bar for one of our post split get togethers.  In the beginning of our relationship she said she was a beer drinker but when we were together she always ordered wine.  So I was surprised that when we ordered she chose a beer.  I said "K, don't you usually drink wine?".  Her response "Since I'm no longer trying to impress you I've gone back to beer".

That being said, she has mentioned that she values our friendship and is glad that she has me in her life.  Prior to discovering BPD and this website in particular I would have hung onto those words as truth.  However, as we have all learned from these relationships, actions speak louder than words.  I've left all contact initiation in her court (we have daughters who are best friends so there will always be some type of limited interaction).  Stay tuned.

LF

[hashtag_loyal]

That being said, she has mentioned that she values our friendship and is glad that she has me in her life.  Prior to discovering BPD and this website in particular I would have hung onto those words as truth.  However, as we have all learned from these relationships, actions speak louder than words.

This is true, but looking at actions can be kind of tricky and time-consuming. Some kind soul should instead invent a BPD to English translator!

For instance: "I value our friendship" = "I value the attention you are giving me."

And "I am glad you are in my life" = "I am glad you are available to give me attention at my whim." 

[steve195915]

That being said, she has mentioned that she values our friendship and is glad that she has me in her life.  Prior to discovering BPD and this website in particular I would have hung onto those words as truth.  However, as we have all learned from these relationships, actions speak louder than words.

This is true, but looking at actions can be kind of tricky and time-consuming. Some kind soul should instead invent a BPD to English translator!

For instance: "I value our friendship" = "I value the attention you are giving me."

And "I am glad you are in my life" = "I am glad you are available to give me attention at my whim." 

Awesome,  .

Maybe you should start another post of a BPD to English translator! Let me add a few to the list.

"I need some time to figure things out for myself" = "I'm still working on finding your replacement so I want you to stay available in case I can't find anyone".

Action: The silent treatment from the pwBPD = "How dare you want me to address some of your needs, now I will punish you with silence"

[steve195915]

What Im curious about is why you really want to remain friends with someone like this? You've accepted she has an illness, you say it cant be cured (it can be improved to a point it isn't as destructive but that takes time and effort on their behalf) So what is it that you would expect from a friendship?

I too felt I could be friends with my ex wife but really I was just hoping for a recycle. I got the recycle and then got dumped and she moved away with the guy that she had met online while we were supposed to be working on our marriage.

Great question so here's by story.


After 2 years of a tumultuous relationship with by BPD SO I decided I need to get off the roller coaster.  The last 6 months I’ve learned a lot about BPD, I’ve learned techniques like validation, empathy, not taking things personal, and have been able to diffuse and minimize any potential bad blowups by my SO.  I decided to commit to the relationship and to accept and tolerate the jealousy, extreme anger, verbal abuse, false accusations.  I committed to try to work to make things a little better but I didn’t have any expectations, the only condition is that I promised myself if she initiates a break up again then I am done.

We were doing very well, and after a wonderful weekend together where we were closer than ever, she texts me that night to tell me how amazing I am, how she misses me so much already, how she loves me so much, how she will always be there for me.  Two days later I get a text from her saying “I’m done with the relationship, goodbye, and thanks”.   There were no arguments prior, no reason given, and no explanation.  I told myself that I am done also and there is no future with her, I will stick to my promise I made to myself, so I didn’t try to contact her.  I didn’t block anything as that is too painful to me and I knew I couldn’t do it.  So no contact for 3 days, then she texts me and wants to meet and talk.  So we meet and she says she’s tired of everything and done with the relationship, says she can’t trust me and makes some false accusations, says she feels controlled, puts me down, but says she still loves me and we can still be friends.  So I stay calm, tell her I hear her saying our relationship is over and that makes me sad but I will accept that and move on with my life and that I love and care for her and wish her the best.  She responds angrily and accuses me that I just want to f**k others and that she never said our relationship was over, (can you say crazy?).  So I ask calmly to give specifics of what she wants.   Her tone changes, said she just needs time, we can still go out, we can call whenever, we can even have make love, she is not interested in going out with anyone else.

The only difference I see is that we are not officially together, and she doesn’t have to feel any obligation or control.  She won’t have to feel obligated to make all the calls she normally would or to see me on all the weekends like we normally do if she has her own things to do.  It’s all in her mind as I’m very easy going and never made any issue of her not seeing me all the time and I even encouraged her that she should have other interests for herself.  She really doesn’t have any friends that she goes out with or other interests of her own.  Her own things to do currently are just cleaning the house, doing laundry, and spending time with her dogs.

An example of her bizarre thinking about me being controlling is that one time I was working outside and didn’t have my cell with me.  An hour later when I looked at my phone, there were multiple calls, phone messages, text messages, and emails from her, with the first ones asking where I am, then that she is worried about me, then asking why I’m ignoring her, then the last ones asking if I am ending the relationship.  She was in complete panic mode.  We talked after and our solution of this not happening again is that if we won’t have our cell available during our free time for more than 30 minutes, we would text and let the other person know.   All was fine from then on until this last breakup she pointed out she feels controlled in that she always has to text me and let me know where she is.  The whole phone thing was HER idea, arghhhhh?

Also I don’t believe she is looking to go out with anyone, she is not promiscuous, and she is extremely health conscious and fears getting an STD and wouldn’t even kiss anyone without them getting an STD test first.  If a guy she found attractive actively pursued her during this time she may be friendly with him so she’ll have an immediate option to pursue due to her fears of abandonment and being alone if she sense I am done with her.

So after this episode I know I have to end the dream of a future permanent relationship with her.  The choices I have are to go NC or remain in contact.  Either way I have to endure the pain and grief of knowing that my dreams of being with her forever are over.  Remember the famous quote “Fool me once shame on you, fool me ten times, shame on me”.   (I did change twice to ten times to be more accurate for our relationship but you get the idea).  Well I hit my limit of 10 times.  There will not be any “shame on me” again. 

If I go NC, it would be much more painful.  I’d be wondering how and what she is doing, wondering if she is trying to contact me, I’d feel very lost and all alone since I gave up a lot of friendships and outside interests to appease her, I’d be moping around the house all day, I’d feel guilty in that I am not helping a fellow human being that may be in need and hurting which is my nature, I’d feel guilty in that I broke my promise to her that I will always be there for her as a friend even if we broke up.    Also it feels so wrong to block someone and ignore them like that. 

If I remain in contact I don’t have to feel any guilt, I can see how she’s doing, I’ll have someone to go out with, (we always have a great time going out), and I can use this time also to develop other interests, to make other friendships outside of her.  After some time I’m sure my grieving will subside as I find other interests. The issue here is that I will have to be strong in being indifferent to thoughts of ever being truly together again.  I believe I can do this and not be fooled again as I’ve been through to many recycles already and my resolve is strong.

So if I remain in contact, I can see in the future I may have less time to see her which I’m sure she will sense and try to get me back.  By that time the immense pain will have subsided and I will have other interests in my life besides her to keep me busy.  I can just say we are friends and that we have no commitment which is what she wanted.  I expect her to say things to manipulate me, to have her outbursts, accusations, verbal abuse, to have a tantrum and go NC when nothing else works, or maybe pursue another guy.   If it gets too intense I can always go NC at that time but at least I’ll be mostly recovered hopefully and have other interests to keep me busy.   I actually think if she does eventually get in another relationship that would be the best thing and I actually think she would want to keep me as a friend.  Yes I know it would be to meet her needs when she needs someone to listen to her vent when her new relationship inevitably has problems, and maybe think in her mind I’m another option to pursue if her new relationship fails.  It would also meet my needs of wanting to be a caring helpful person. 

I started this post because I’m deciding on C/NC with my BPDex and read a comment in another post from a Moderator that there are many stories of successful friendly relationships after a breakup from a relationship with a pwBPD.  Well so far there in this post there hasn’t been one instance of a healthy friendly relationship with a BPDex nor even someone saying having contact worked for them after a breakup.  Maybe I'm fooling myself thinking it can work for me.

[cloudten]

no. there is no chance for friendship on any level.

[enlighten me]

So another question for two or you.

If you do the friendship thing and then she meets someone but wants to keep you as friends how would you feel? Especially if it was in your face.

If she meets someone and cuts you out without a care how would you feel?

If you get new interests and don't have time for her so end up abandoning her with no friends how would you feel? Or would you sacrifice your new life as she is lonely?

If she stubs her toe and seeks sympathy would you give it? If she realises she can get sympathy so starts doing things or making things up (subtly at first) do you think you can tell what is real and what is not and not get sucked back in?

It is in my opinion its playing with fire and as strong as I like to feel I am now I do not feel I could not get sucked back in. Its the slow corrosive drip drip of little things that broke me in the relationship and made me doubt my sanity. I cant see it being any different as a friend.

OK maybe six questions  

[steve195915]

So another question for two or you.

If you do the friendship thing and then she meets someone but wants to keep you as friends how would you feel? Especially if it was in your face.

If she meets someone and cuts you out without a care how would you feel?

If you get new interests and don't have time for her so end up abandoning her with no friends how would you feel? Or would you sacrifice your new life as she is lonely?

If she stubs her toe and seeks sympathy would you give it? If she realises she can get sympathy so starts doing things or making things up (subtly at first) do you think you can tell what is real and what is not and not get sucked back in?

It is in my opinion its playing with fire and as strong as I like to feel I am now I do not feel I could not get sucked back in. Its the slow corrosive drip drip of little things that broke me in the relationship and made me doubt my sanity. I cant see it being any different as a friend.

OK maybe six questions  

If she meets someone and still wants to be friends I am ok with that. We don't have a commitment now per her desire so if she says she has someone else then how can I consider it being in my face.  If I meet someone of interest I'm definitely planning to pursue it further. I also don't believe she will start anything for a while and every day that goes by I feel I'm detaching little by little.  So lets say in a month she has someone else, I think I will feel relieved at that time as I'm off the hook (at least for a little while) and then if I'm her sounding board for how horrible this new guy is then that will even help me to further solidify my detachment.

If she cuts me out completely at a later time when she meets someone, by then I will have other interests and be somewhat detached so much lesser of a hurt than just going NC and being cut off right now.  It's about buying time for my recovery.  

If I have my own life interests I still won't cut her out or abandon her completely and no I won't feel guilt.  I may feel sorry for how she has to live but I feel that way now. I won't get sucked in and sacrifice my new life but I would give her the time that my new life allows.  

If she seeks sympathy then yes I'll give it.  I'm very aware of her manipulative ways and every day that goes by I can see more clearly.  I don't believe I will be sucked in.

Yes it is playing with fire but if you attend to the fire carefully if can be contained.  It's somewhat of a mental war of the mind but going NC is also a mental war and for me NC would be more painful.   How many of us have been through NC multiple times and failed and how many even after months or years of NC are still suffering since they never got answers or resolution and no closure in their minds and some still fear if they're contacted again they may get sucked in (i.e. like you).  I was thinking I may try another way, worst case I just wasted some time and can still go NC.  

When there was NC for 3 days I started thinking about all our good times, was missing her terribly, wanted to call her constantly, started not to think of all the hell I had to endure.  After contact I started to recognize the craziness, started to be more aware of the manipulation even from the first meeting, the insults , the unjustified anger, the selfishness.  Yet I still love her and I attribute the behavior to her mental illness that can never be removed, it is part of her always.  I feel pity for her but know I will not go there again (I'm thinking that anyway).

[blackbirdsong]

So another question for two or you.

If you do the friendship thing and then she meets someone but wants to keep you as friends how would you feel? Especially if it was in your face.

If she meets someone and cuts you out without a care how would you feel?

If you get new interests and don't have time for her so end up abandoning her with no friends how would you feel? Or would you sacrifice your new life as she is lonely?

If she stubs her toe and seeks sympathy would you give it? If she realises she can get sympathy so starts doing things or making things up (subtly at first) do you think you can tell what is real and what is not and not get sucked back in?

It is in my opinion its playing with fire and as strong as I like to feel I am now I do not feel I could not get sucked back in. Its the slow corrosive drip drip of little things that broke me in the relationship and made me doubt my sanity. I cant see it being any different as a friend.

OK maybe six questions  

If she meets someone and still wants to be friends I am ok with that. We don't have a commitment now per her desire so if she says she has someone else then how can I consider it being in my face.  If I meet someone of interest I'm definitely planning to pursue it further. I also don't believe she will start anything for a while and every day that goes by I feel I'm detaching little by little.  So lets say in a month she has someone else, I think I will feel relieved at that time as I'm off the hook (at least for a little while) and then if I'm her sounding board for how horrible this new guy is then that will even help me to further solidify my detachment.

If she cuts me out completely at a later time when she meets someone, by then I will have other interests and be somewhat detached so much lesser of a hurt than just going NC and being cut off right now.  It's about buying time for my recovery.  

If I have my own life interests I still won't cut her out or abandon her completely and no I won't feel guilt.  I may feel sorry for how she has to live but I feel that way now. I won't get sucked in and sacrifice my new life but I would give her the time that my new life allows.  

If she seeks sympathy then yes I'll give it.  I'm very aware of her manipulative ways and every day that goes by I can see more clearly.  I don't believe I will be sucked in.

Yes it is playing with fire but if you attend to the fire carefully if can be contained.  It's somewhat of a mental war of the mind but going NC is also a mental war and for me NC would be more painful.   How many of us have been through NC multiple times and failed and how many even after months or years of NC are still suffering since they never got answers or resolution and no closure in their minds and some still fear if they're contacted again they may get sucked in (i.e. like you).  I was thinking I may try another way, worst case I just wasted some time and can still go NC.  

When there was NC for 3 days I started thinking about all our good times, was missing her terribly, wanted to call her constantly, started not to think of all the hell I had to endure.  After contact I started to recognize the craziness, started to be more aware of the manipulation even from the first meeting, the insults , the unjustified anger, the selfishness.  Yet I still love her and I attribute the behavior to her mental illness that can never be removed, it is part of her always.  I feel pity for her but know I will not go there again (I'm thinking that anyway).

To be honest, I think you have constructed 1000 optional what-if paths, but if you look deep into yourself, you need to admit that you want to be next to her. I think you still crave for her. Be honest to your feelings. Do you want to be her friend or partner?

[enlighten me]

I don't fear getting sucked back in again as I am not in a relationship of any form so can keep my guard up and avoid being manipulated. I saw my exgf twice today as I had my boy. I was polite and friendly but were not friends. How can I be friends with someone I cant trust?

If you think you will get closure from her then I think you will be waiting a long time. Only we can give ourselves closure. Even if they know why they behaved the way they did (which the majority don't) then the chances of them explaining it to us is slim to none.

So back to my original question. Why remain friends? You say because going NC would be too painful but if you are detaching and willing to le her go if that's what she wishes then I cant see going NC now being any more painful than that.

Sorry If I seem pushy Im just trying to play devils advocate.

[steve195915]

I don't fear getting sucked back in again as I am not in a relationship of any form so can keep my guard up and avoid being manipulated. I saw my exgf twice today as I had my boy. I was polite and friendly but were not friends. How can I be friends with someone I cant trust?

If you think you will get closure from her then I think you will be waiting a long time. Only we can give ourselves closure. Even if they know why they behaved the way they did (which the majority don't) then the chances of them explaining it to us is slim to none.

So back to my original question. Why remain friends? You say because going NC would be too painful but if you are detaching and willing to le her go if that's what she wishes then I cant see going NC now being any more painful than that.

Sorry If I seem pushy Im just trying to play devils advocate.

All good questions and good conversation. 

For me I don't ever expect getting any closure from her.   I don't believe the pwBPD really knows why they do certain things, they just react in many cases unjustifiably due to their internal fears, and  are unable to recognize what they have done or the pain that resulted from it.   Yes it's about me giving myself closure, realizing day by day the past turmoil I've had to endure and how it can never get better.  Being constantly recognized of her behavior also strengthens my resolve for not getting sucked in.  For instance today she called on her lunch break from her first full time job in her life she has had for 2 months.  The whole conversation was all about how lazy these people were, how they are so childish and terrible and that she doesn't think she can take it much longer.  I just validated her feelings and supplied some empathy.  What I was thinking at the time is how the whole conversation was about her and meeting her needs to vent, her issues where she can't maintain basic relationships with other people, how she probably won't last too long at this job and then need someone to support her.  My eyes are wide open. 

Why try to keep contact vs NC right now?  To me NC is very abrupt and that makes it that much more painful. Keeping contact the pain can be distributed over a longer period of time and not be intense as the abruptness of NC and I can be more aware of her illness as contact is a constant reminder of her issues like today's phone call.  She doesn't want to go NC, she desires me to be their to meet her current needs.

To address the previous comment I am not fooling myself.  I do care for her and love her deeply and crave for her and being just friends is not my desire however, I know her being a partner would just lead to more pain and heartache.  My resolve is strong to not be sucked back in.  Maintaining contact seems to be the less painful way, at least so far it is.  I'm sure in her mind she thinks she has me sucked in already and is just using me to meet her current needs.  To me she's meeting my current needs for companionship while at the same time detaching from the emotional dependence I have with her, to less my pain of being alone, and to give me some time to develop other interests and friends.

I know you may have doubts if I can be successful, but do you get what I'm trying to do?

[blackbirdsong]

I know you may have doubts if I can be successful, but do you get what I'm trying to do?

Yes, I hear you. I still doubt that this is possible, but every one of us have different experience, environment, partners, personality... .

Good luck!

[apollotech]

steve195915:

For instance today she called on her lunch break from her first full time job in her life she has had for 2 months.  The whole conversation was all about how lazy these people were, how they are so childish and terrible and that she doesn't think she can take it much longer.  I just validated her feelings and supplied some empathy.  What I was thinking at the time is how the whole conversation was about her and meeting her needs to vent, her issues where she can't maintain basic relationships with other people, how she probably won't last too long at this job and then need someone to support her.  My eyes are wide open.

Steve,

I understand what you're attempting to do, you want to taper-off the separation rather than going cold-turkey. The only problem with your strategy is that you're going to continually be caught up within her chaos (see above). Even though you think that it isn't affecting you, are you positive that that's the case? It would seem that if you had actually reached a plateau of indifference regarding her, you wouldn't need her contact. I don't believe that you'll be pulled back into a relationship, but I am not sure that you can heal while in contact with her. That would be my concern.

[LostGhost]

I don't fear getting sucked back in again as I am not in a relationship of any form so can keep my guard up and avoid being manipulated. I saw my exgf twice today as I had my boy. I was polite and friendly but were not friends. How can I be friends with someone I cant trust?

If you think you will get closure from her then I think you will be waiting a long time. Only we can give ourselves closure. Even if they know why they behaved the way they did (which the majority don't) then the chances of them explaining it to us is slim to none.

So back to my original question. Why remain friends? You say because going NC would be too painful but if you are detaching and willing to le her go if that's what she wishes then I cant see going NC now being any more painful than that.

Sorry If I seem pushy Im just trying to play devils advocate.

All good questions and good conversation.  

For me I don't ever expect getting any closure from her.   I don't believe the pwBPD really knows why they do certain things, they just react in many cases unjustifiably due to their internal fears, and  are unable to recognize what they have done or the pain that resulted from it.   Yes it's about me giving myself closure, realizing day by day the past turmoil I've had to endure and how it can never get better.  Being constantly recognized of her behavior also strengthens my resolve for not getting sucked in.  For instance today she called on her lunch break from her first full time job in her life she has had for 2 months.  The whole conversation was all about how lazy these people were, how they are so childish and terrible and that she doesn't think she can take it much longer.  I just validated her feelings and supplied some empathy.  What I was thinking at the time is how the whole conversation was about her and meeting her needs to vent, her issues where she can't maintain basic relationships with other people, how she probably won't last too long at this job and then need someone to support her.  My eyes are wide open.  

Why try to keep contact vs NC right now?  To me NC is very abrupt and that makes it that much more painful. Keeping contact the pain can be distributed over a longer period of time and not be intense as the abruptness of NC and I can be more aware of her illness as contact is a constant reminder of her issues like today's phone call.  She doesn't want to go NC, she desires me to be their to meet her current needs.

To address the previous comment I am not fooling myself.  I do care for her and love her deeply and crave for her and being just friends is not my desire however, I know her being a partner would just lead to more pain and heartache.  My resolve is strong to not be sucked back in.  Maintaining contact seems to be the less painful way, at least so far it is.  I'm sure in her mind she thinks she has me sucked in already and is just using me to meet her current needs.  To me she's meeting my current needs for companionship while at the same time detaching from the emotional dependence I have with her, to less my pain of being alone, and to give me some time to develop other interests and friends.

I know you may have doubts if I can be successful, but do you get what I'm trying to do?

I was of the same mindset as you! I felt going NC was so sudden and painful, it didn't feel natural. I too wanted a slow tapering off to distribute the pain gradually over time. Having hindsight to look back at how it's turned out, I wish I'd gone NC from the start.

Let me give you an extreme analogy.

If you had no choice but to do die from a nuclear bomb, would you prefer to be at the epicentre of the blast where, although your death is extremely violent, unexpected and you have no opportunity for closure, it ends in an instant? Or would you rather be on the outskirts of the blast and watch as your quality of life gradually declines as you suffer painfully and die from radiation?

I warn you because I chose the latter and it is not something I would wish on anyone. It is daily pain given in random doses but it is never ending. I am on a constant IV drip of pain administered daily. It seemed like a good idea at the time but it really hasn't benefited me at all.

[steve195915]

steve195915:

For instance today she called on her lunch break from her first full time job in her life she has had for 2 months.  The whole conversation was all about how lazy these people were, how they are so childish and terrible and that she doesn't think she can take it much longer.  I just validated her feelings and supplied some empathy.  What I was thinking at the time is how the whole conversation was about her and meeting her needs to vent, her issues where she can't maintain basic relationships with other people, how she probably won't last too long at this job and then need someone to support her.  My eyes are wide open.

Steve,

I understand what you're attempting to do, you want to taper-off the separation rather than going cold-turkey. The only problem with your strategy is that you're going to continually be caught up within her chaos (see above). Even though you think that it isn't affecting you, are you positive that that's the case? It would seem that if you had actually reached a plateau of indifference regarding her, you wouldn't need her contact. I don't believe that you'll be pulled back into a relationship, but I am not sure that you can heal while in contact with her. That would be my concern.

Thanks for the insight and I will definitely be watchful to see if I'm getting caught up in her chaos such that I'm not healing or that it's causing me more emotional distress.  If that happens I will definitely go NC.  It's only been contact since Saturday and so far its been going ok.  I feel I'm looking at her chaos and analyzing her words and actions more objectively and sometimes even sarcastically.  The other night on the phone she levied an insult, I started to respond but then caught myself and ignored it.  Afterwards I thought in my mind what a sick bi*ch and how could I have allowed myself to be verbally abused for all that time.  My typical response in the past would be to feel sad and to want to do something to please her because obviously she's upset with me about something.  Maybe all this contact is doing is getting me emotionally prepared and hardened to go NC and never have a thought of going back.  Maybe this friends thing will be short lived.  All I can say so far this week of contact has been less painful then the days of NC.  I'm actually getting a little motivation back to start doing things. The big test will be this weekend when we may spend a significant amount of time together.   

[apollotech]

steve195915:

I feel I'm looking at her chaos and analyzing her words and actions more objectively and sometimes even sarcastically.  The other night on the phone she levied an insult, I started to respond but then caught myself and ignored it.  Afterwards I thought in my mind what a sick bi*ch and how could I have allowed myself to be verbally abused for all that time.  My typical response in the past would be to feel sad and to want to do something to please her because obviously she's upset with me about something.

Steve,

This is what I was talking about. No, it's not the "typical response" that you would have given before, but it is still a response. You are still being engaged/triggered by her contact. I am not suggesting that you go NC. We are all different and have to do what is best for us individually, but NC is the tool which creates the distance and time required for us to heal. That's some food for thought.

[steve195915]

I was of the same mindset as you! I felt going NC was so sudden and painful, it didn't feel natural. I too wanted a slow tapering off to distribute the pain gradually over time. Having hindsight to look back at how it's turned out, I wish I'd gone NC from the start.

Let me give you an extreme analogy.

If you had no choice but to do die from a nuclear bomb, would you prefer to be at the epicentre of the blast where, although your death is extremely violent, unexpected and you have no opportunity for closure, it ends in an instant? Or would you rather be on the outskirts of the blast and watch as your quality of life gradually declines as you suffer painfully and die from radiation?

I warn you because I chose the latter and it is not something I would wish on anyone. It is daily pain given in random doses but it is never ending. I am on a constant IV drip of pain administered daily. It seemed like a good idea at the time but it really hasn't benefited me at all.

Thanks for your story and hindsight, it's definitely appreciated and I will keep it in my thoughts.  But... . I'm still staying stubborn so at least for today I'm staying in contact.  Interesting analogy and I get your point but when going NC the pain is so excruciating and it doesn't dissipate quickly whereas dying from a nuclear blast the pain is short lived.

Maybe a more accurate analogy is if you have cancer your options are to get chemo where the pain will be intensified due to the treatment for a time however, you will eventually be cured of the cancer and it will be out of your life forever

or

you can do nothing and stay with the cancer, where it will slowly eat you away until your death.  

Yes you have me thinking.  At least I'll be on guard!

 

[thisworld]

I would like to add something to the cancer analogy. To my knowledge there are more than 200 types of cancer. Some are very very aggressive and painful. In these cases, untreated cancer is not necessarily less painful - even in the short term- than chemo. At first it may feel so, but sometimes soon after the diagnosis the pain becomes so horrendous that chemo would feel like a bad flu next to it - I witnessed this in someone I dearly loved and his chemo process was really difficult, too. There is no guarantee that not receiving treatment would be less painful than the treatment.

Also, maybe pain is not the only component. In some cancers, there is fast and immediate loss of function. You may have a painless brain tumor but all of a sudden lose your sight just in one day, become a confused person the next - to the point of not remembering where your house is and doctors say that you will die in two, three days. All painless, but fatal. NC, no matter how painful, is a true cure. I would choose NC to keep myself intact and whole even though the other option may be completely painless - and with BPD, I don't believe it is anyway.

My BPD ex with narcissistic traits had a 180 degree character turn the moment we split up and separated houses - he is the biggest torch carrier for lovingly separating now after breaking my stuff, stealing from me, completely denigrating me to his friends with so many lies about me, a parasuicide, whatnot. I kept in neutral contact with him for around a week while trying to find a strategy with my therapist to limit some possible future damage.  This gave me the opportunity to see how undeveloped certain things were even if the aggression and abusiveness was gone. (Under our circumstances, a healthy individual would give the other one some space so that they can salvage themselves from the wreck created by that roller coaster - I lost my job, am in debt, my house looks like there was some fire inside etc because I had to lead a parallel life responding to his needs, even though I see what was going on, I'm deeply hurt as a woman because of his emotional cheating and what not because it was also based on character assasisnating me.) He still has zero recognition of what I may have gone through but keeps on sending me strange pieces of writing about himself and his life as well as some subtly (or maybe blatantly) manipulative stuff about us, trying to guilt me. At first, I even derived a satisfaction from this, from my new perspective and also from his attention. The moment I told him very nicely and politely that I wouldn't be able to send some stuff - which he left in my pace- immediately because I'm not at home myself and would do it in max. two days, he stopped communication. Not a reply saying thank you. And guess what? I'm emotionally triggered. I'm able to see what is going on but I still have negative feelings, I'm somewhere between seeing what's going on and still waiting for a reply. My real objective -protecting myself from this untrustworthy person- is kind of lost (emotionally) and is reduced to some short-term goal of twisted pleasure seeking. This is what communication with him does to me, I become short-sighted and start looking for instant gratification, too, maybe to adapt to him. I don't want this. That's why NC is the best for me and soon it will be much less painful than my own unbalanced emotions because I know these are temporary - I have the ability to heal when I stay away, he doesn't.     

[hashtag_loyal]

Thanks for your story and hindsight, it's definitely appreciated and I will keep it in my thoughts.  But... . I'm still staying stubborn so at least for today I'm staying in contact.  Interesting analogy and I get your point but when going NC the pain is so excruciating and it doesn't dissipate quickly whereas dying from a nuclear blast the pain is short lived.

Maybe a more accurate analogy is if you have cancer your options are to get chemo where the pain will be intensified due to the treatment for a time however, you will eventually be cured of the cancer and it will be out of your life forever

or

you can do nothing and stay with the cancer, where it will slowly eat you away until your death.  

Yes you have me thinking.  At least I'll be on guard!

I think for most of you NC is essential, and you have all made excellent points, but I would like to provide a contrarian view (and my own medical analogy) on how LC has been a better approach for me personally.

To me, LC is like the gradual exposure to a toxin in order to build up an immunity. While if I had gone strict NC, I might've missed her, and spent most of my time remembering the good parts. I'd also spend so much of my time wondering what she was up to, and even if she was still alive. By going LC, I and constantly reminded of how her BPD devastates her life, and how I am better off detaching and never recycling.

It is true that, at first, it hurt and I felt emotional pain when interacting with her, but with each subsequent "exposure" I gradually became more and more numb. By now, I am fully inoculated to her toxic behavior.

For instance, just yesterday she contacted me out of the blue to share some news that would've devastated me if I had found out about it a few months ago. Now? I just shrugged and thought to myself, "Yeah, that sounds about right."

For me, LC was choosing to confront my pain until I eventually overcame it.

[steve195915]

I think for most of you NC is essential, and you have all made excellent points, but I would like to provide a contrarian view (and my own medical analogy) on how LC has been a better approach for me personally.

To me, LC is like the gradual exposure to a toxin in order to build up an immunity. While if I had gone strict NC, I might've missed her, and spent most of my time remembering the good parts. I'd also spend so much of my time wondering what she was up to, and even if she was still alive. By going LC, I and constantly reminded of how her BPD devastates her life, and how I am better off detaching and never recycling.

It is true that, at first, it hurt and I felt emotional pain when interacting with her, but with each subsequent "exposure" I gradually became more and more numb. By now, I am fully inoculated to her toxic behavior.

For instance, just yesterday she contacted me out of the blue to share some news that would've devastated me if I had found out about it a few months ago. Now? I just shrugged and thought to myself, "Yeah, that sounds about right."

For me, LC was choosing to confront my pain until I eventually overcame it.

Thanks for the input.  So far I'm feeling the same way that LC is working for me exactly in the same way you describe.  I tried NC several times and I found myself missing her, spent most of my time remembering the good parts, wondering what/how she was doing, if she was trying to contact me. LC is minimizing some of the pain from going full NC, bringing a greater awareness of the relationship and how it was, and slowly detaching emotionally. 

The original Post was about detaching and remaining friends which now I realize being friends is not likely after the non has been brutalized by the BPDex.  I probably should have renamed the Post "Has anyone successfully detached with LC".   Still strange that a moderator in another post mentioned how he heard many stories of non's on this site having healthy friendships with their BPDex.  I'm still waiting to hear one case of this.

[hashtag_loyal]

Still strange that a moderator in another post mentioned how he heard many stories of non's on this site having healthy friendships with their BPDex.  I'm still waiting to hear one case of this.

I would assume those pwBPD are not as severely disordered as the ones described in this thread. My ex is completely incapable of having healthy friendships with anyone. It's truly sad, actually.

[steve195915]

Still strange that a moderator in another post mentioned how he heard many stories of non's on this site having healthy friendships with their BPDex.  I'm still waiting to hear one case of this.

I would assume those pwBPD are not as severely disordered as the ones described in this thread. My ex is completely incapable of having healthy friendships with anyone. It's truly sad, actually.

Yes I was thinking that too, or possibly the relationship ended sooner without extreme brutality inflicted on the non.  I can envision a relationship where the non is just a sounding board to the BPDex however it satisfies the non's needs to be the caregiver and they can do that without getting emotionally attached. 

My BPDex does not currently have any healthy friendships and in her lifetime I can only think of one time she did.  She had a very close male friend that she previously worked with that moved out of the state.  They would text or talk daily, probably more to vent their life's problems on each other but that served both their needs.  They never had a romance so maybe that's why it worked.  Unfortunately he passed away.

[kc sunshine]

I've seen my BPDex have a good relationship with her ex-- probably because her ex is in another relationship (and perhaps also because her ex ended it rather than my BPDex ending it, which made her always long for the ex).

[Mr Hollande]

I haven't read the entire thread so forgive me for jumping in.

While I have remained on friendly terms with most of my ex gf's it would be impossible with the BPD. One of the ongoing irritations of our relationship was her ex who is also the father of her son. He was being cruel and there were many times I had to console her because he'd been nasty to her. He angered me on so many occasions that had I not lived in a foreign country I would have beaten him up.

In hindsight I understand that there were mitigating circumstances as he was very likely on the receiving end of regular outbursts from her and probably gave as good as he got. I also believe she demonised him in order to set off my white knight instincts and I was enough of a fool to swallow the bait without question.

So post break up I imagine him tied to her for life via a kid and I feel for him. I think he hates her and I sympathise with how it spills over into cruelty on occasion. If I was still around her it's possible I'd act the same way so I'm grateful I'm not. I don't intend to forgive her but I'd rather be dead than reduced to a full time bitter ex whose regular routine includes being horrible to my former gf. We have the benefit of living in different countries so it's taken care of by default but even if I lived in the same town as her I would avoid her like the plague. For the sake of my own dignity if nothing else.

I don't believe in friendship after break up. Not with her. There's too much bad blood for that to be possible.