how long have you gone without sexual intimacy? How do you deal with it?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I am at almost 3 years literally nothing. No touching, no looking, she doesn't touch me. We kiss a little bit but nothing passionate nothing that reconnects us in that way. Of course it was hot and heavy for 2 years and then it stopped. Won't go into the trigger, its mind bending to me.

I am posting this question because the feelings I have inside of me are so difficult to get through. I don't want to have an affair, I want my wife. I am 52 years old and I don't see my yearning for a sexual connection to go away.

The rejection is so difficult to deal with. If we could get that part of our relationship back that would give me something to look forward to. We have no "life" together. She doesn't go to church with me, we don't visit family together, we don't go on walks together, we don't take drives together, we don't go out to eat with each other, we don't go shopping together (I know that sounds weird coming from a man, but I will take any crumb thrown to me at this point), we don't go to the movies together.

I am going to therapy but therapy cannot remove a desire that God put down inside of me.

Self pleasure does nothing. I will not watch porn. I need to connect with my wife. I am scared that this problem will eventually lead to a divorce.

It affects so many things with me. I get pensive and she can read that on my face. I feel like I can't hold it together any longer. I know that sounds weak. 

[byfaith]

I am at almost 3 years literally nothing. No touching, no looking, she doesn't touch me. We kiss a little bit but nothing passionate nothing that reconnects us in that way. Of course it was hot and heavy for 2 years and then it stopped. Won't go into the trigger, its mind bending to me.

I am posting this question because the feelings I have inside of me are so difficult to get through. I don't want to have an affair, I want my wife. I am 52 years old and I don't see my yearning for a sexual connection to go away.

The rejection is so difficult to deal with. If we could get that part of our relationship back that would give me something to look forward to. We have no "life" together. She doesn't go to church with me, we don't visit family together, we don't go on walks together, we don't take drives together, we don't go out to eat with each other, we don't go shopping together (I know that sounds weird coming from a man, but I will take any crumb thrown to me at this point), we don't go to the movies together.

I am going to therapy but therapy cannot remove a desire that God put down inside of me.

Self pleasure does nothing. I will not watch porn. I need to connect with my wife. I am scared that this problem will eventually lead to a divorce.

It affects so many things with me. I get pensive and she can read that on my face. I feel like I can't hold it together any longer. I know that sounds weak. 

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[Icthelight]

I feel like I can't hold it together any longer. I know that sounds weak.  

If I said this, my therapist would say that I am being too critical of myself. Weak after 3 years of no sexual intimacy? I beg to differ. You are strong for holding it together that long and remaining faithful to your wife. Wow.

The longest I can recall going without sexual intimacy is a couple of months. However, in my 23 years of marriage, there have been many "a couple of months" of no sexual intimacy.

Does your wife know how you're currently feeling? My wife justifies not having sex with me because she is really angry at me, or I am the one that doesn't want to have sex with her. She claims that because I don't find her attractive, why in the world would I want to have sex with her. And, since I don't want to have sex with her, she doesn't want to have sex with me. It's a tough roller coaster to be on. BTW, I do find my wife attractive.

It's tough for me when I'm not getting the sexual intimacy from my wife. Usually, we reconcile before I get too crazy in this area. I usually feel rejected in this area and it plays with my head. I'm not sure if I could deal with it after three years of it.

I would love to hear about the trigger. However, I understand if it's too personal or painful for you to share. Hang in there.

[byfaith]

I don't mind... .we met rather quickly after my divorce of my first marriage of 25 years. Was not planning on getting involved with someone this quickly but I did... .my current wife was going through my emails which I didn't know but I didn't think I had anything to hide. Did I see that ? I guess not. She found an email I wrote my ex wife but I wrote it before I met my current wife.

I was telling my first wife that I had a crush on a certain woman? Never flirted with this woman, I just had a mental attachment to her because she was nice to me at a time my previous marriage was going through a rough patch. This woman cut my hair, so I saw her once every month and 1/2 maybe that was it. I felt guilty about it because I contemplated asking her to meet me to go hiking but I never did.

my girlfriend at the time (wife now)  saw  this email and asked me about it... .I was painted black for a while because in her mind I was a cheater. It passed and I thought that this would never be an issue. She married me knowing this tid bit, yes it came up a few times with not positive results.

about 3 years ago she asked me did you ever picture yourself having sex with that woman who cut your hair? I said yes but honestly don't ever remember thinking it. I just answered yes because if I answered no she would not have believed me anyway. That was the trigger. from that point on I was a cheater no good piece of crap. Mind you this happened 6 years before she even met me.

So I was devalued from that point on and it has never been the same since.

during these 3 years of going without intimacy I have been told many things about my wife's past (she has told me). I have never judged her. I have images in my mind that disturb me but I think how can she hold this against me if she would consider her past? But I guess they don't think that way

it's been torment for me

[Concerns]

Hi, byfaith. I've got you beat. 4.5 years... .

I totally feel you.

It's brutal.

I want my wife.

She wants nothing to do with me.

I don't even try anymore after four years of rejection.

I watch porn. I masturbate. It doesn't work.

What we seek is affection and intimacy.

Sexual intimacy is a large part of a man's constitution. It just is.

Marriage counseling seems like a great idea to me.

I feel it can provide an avenue to help you both to bring a path back to intimacy in your relationship. 

You are not weak.

You are a strong man.

It takes a powerful man to withstand and deny an essential part of his being.

You are lovable.

[Notwendy]

I am so sorry that this is something you are dealing with. I didn't even think it was possible to have a marriage where sex was denied to the spouse in this manner. That doesn't mean a spouse always has to consent to the other one- sometimes someone is not feelings well, tired, or has another reason, but when this is chronic, it is a problem.

My first reaction to the "trigger" is that this is not cheating, it is biology. We are hard wired with certain instincts. Cheating is when we act on them out of the context of marriage vows. To ask a man " did you ever think about having sex with this person?" is similar to asking a man walking by a restaurant - " did you ever imagine getting something to eat there? ". We are hard wired to eat, reproduce, and for other instincts. Of course we think about it. The ethical dilemma is what we do when we think about it.

You didn't cheat on anybody, and you can't cheat on your spouse before you met them.

It would not occur to me to ask my H that question, because I know darn well that the truly honest answer- did you ever imagine having sex with another woman would be.  I am sure he has imagined this at some point. Because, well he has testosterone and he has eyes and he is wired for this. However, I feel pretty sure that he doesn't act on this instinct.

And to the women? Well from the audible gasp of the mothers in the theater who drove their preteen daughters to see Twilight during the scenes where the character "Jacob" took off his shirt, I'd be wiling to bet, yes, we women think this too. But we love our husbands and families.

This is why we take extra caution to not get ourselves in situations where we could be compromised. This drive is very strong. I don't think we can control what we think at times, so we take care to not be in vulnerable situations. They say the way to avoid slipping in the river is to not go to the edge - or not go at all. So some people make a point of not being alone with someone they may be attracted to, not speaking intimately to them ( about personal things). Someone mentioned that Billy Graham made a point of having his wife present when he was in the presence of other women. This isn't because he never thinks about being attracted, it is because he accepts that he could be and takes effort to not be tempted.

I don't have an answer to your relationship with your wife, but I hope that accepting that you didn't cheat, that this is her idea, will lead you to some solution.

[byfaith]

Wow... .Concerns. I know I cannot go that long. There must be something that keeps you there. Right now my only "something" keeping me here is caring about my wife enough to see if she will get help for her problem.

It is a deep, deep problem in her mind and in her soul. She has to be willing first to dig down to the root of the problem and then deal with it. I believe she knows what the root is, I believe I know what it is (from everything she has shared with me). I can only help her so far.

This may sound harsh but I am realizing that it is not my fault or my responsibility to suffer because of what people did to her in her past. There are also situations she let herself be involved in that were HER decision. That is not my fault. I have opened every door for her that I have been led to open for her to find help. I am out of doors. There are things that have formed the type of person I am but I don't keep holding onto those things to control my future and my relationships with people in my life.  

I have thought about marriage counseling but in our case I don't believe it will help.

My belief is that when she met me she idealized me. I believe she has been looking for the "perfect" man all of her life one that will never let her down. I think she convinced herself I was that man. Little by little I was devalued. I think the whole "trigger" was a drawn out squeeze of the trigger. That moment was the end of the trigger pull. Leading up to that so, many things were happening. She thought I was lusting after women in so many different scenarios. It's just so messed up. I think she needed a final reason to detach from me.

We met in May 2011 and for almost 2 years our sex life was great. I was still dealing with the BPD issues through that time I think I discovered the term BPD about 3 years ago.

I have done nothing but read about BPD, depression, sexual disorders... .I am exhausted. On top of all this her son lives with us who suffers with paranoid schizophrenia. She has enmeshment issues with him. I have spent so much time dealing with these issues I have lost myself. He believes I called him something of a criminal nature (don't want to name it here). This is a delusion that has lasted for over 4 years.

I kind of went off on a tangent here. It has been a little helpful writing this stuff out and sharing it.

With the intimacy issue I think I am at a breaking point.

 

[Icthelight]

Do you think a sex therapist will work instead of a marriage counselor?

[HopefulDad]

With the intimacy issue I think I am at a breaking point.

Trust, love, respect, etc. are all building blocks necessary in a marriage.  Sex is the glue that keeps them all together.  It's tough to build a marriage just out of the blocks, just like you cannot build a marriage just out of the glue.

There is no shame if you hit a breaking point.  Don't beat yourself up over it if you do.

[SweetCharlotte]

about 3 years ago she asked me did you ever picture yourself having sex with that woman who cut your hair? I said yes but honestly don't ever remember thinking it. I just answered yes because if I answered no she would not have believed me anyway. That was the trigger. from that point on I was a cheater no good piece of crap. Mind you this happened 6 years before she even met me.

So I was devalued from that point on and it has never been the same since.

I don't think that things would be any different now if you had never told her this. It would have been some other trigger.

However, as advice for any men reading this, I would say to avoid sharing any private fantasies, past or present, with the woman in your life that do not include her. My uBPDh knows not to do this, and I feel that he is right. A few times I have asked him about his sexual fantasies, and he just answers, "I'm a man." That's a good answer. Men and women are very different; this is one place we should not go with each other.

[SweetCharlotte]

She thought I was lusting after women in so many different scenarios. It's just so messed up. I think she needed a final reason to detach from me.

We met in May 2011 and for almost 2 years our sex life was great. I was still dealing with the BPD issues through that time I think I discovered the term BPD about 3 years ago.

I have done nothing but read about BPD, depression, sexual disorders... .I am exhausted. On top of all this her son lives with us who suffers with paranoid schizophrenia. She has enmeshment issues with him. I have spent so much time dealing with these issues I have lost myself. He believes I called him something of a criminal nature (don't want to name it here). This is a delusion that has lasted for over 4 years.

I kind of went off on a tangent here. It has been a little helpful writing this stuff out and sharing it.

With the intimacy issue I think I am at a breaking point.

 

Thank you for being so honest, byfaith. You are getting to some painful truths. You are being abused in many ways in this relationship. The lack of sex is just a symptom, the classic tip of the iceberg. It is something you can measure and say, "this is not right."

There are a lot of things that are not right. She emotionally abuses you by maintaining that you are somehow unfaithful when you aren't. She places you in an abusive domestic situation that could be dangerous to your life and limb by having you live with her son, with whom she has an unhealthy relationship if your term of "enmeshment issues" is correct.

Hence, it is not a matter of getting her to be intimate with you again. The issue is whether all these abusive patterns can be changed. It sounds like you may be punishing yourself. You can't think of what you did wrong, but you must have done something to be suffering like this. It's a mental trap. It reminds me of a very dark "joke" about wife abuse from a foreign culture, "When you go home each night, hit your wife. You may not know why, but she will."

[byfaith]

Icthelight ... .she has started therapy, but the last two weeks she has done nothing, so by the time she makes another appointment it will be three weeks of not going. I talked to her last night about it. She has gone to three visits and they have not addressed this issue. We shall see.

Hopeful... .I have often thought that same thing about the sexual intimacy being the glue that holds these things together.

The way I feel at this point is that it would better for me to be single and have no sexual relationship with someone than to be married and be denied affection and attention. I do miss the sex really bad but not just sex for the sake of sex. I want to be desired. I remember when we flirted all the time, those kind of things.

[formflier]

  It is a deep, deep problem in her mind and in her soul. She has to be willing first to dig down to the root of the problem and then deal with it. I believe she knows what the root is, I believe I know what it is (from everything she has shared with me). I can only help her so far.    

       Can you share with us what you think the "root" cause is?  For instance, my wife was the "extra" child that wasn't needed or wanted.  Her FOO was very obvious about it.  She is incredibly sensitive to anything I do that she can twist into "not being wanted".  Hopefully we can point you towards a step you can take on this issue.        

FF

[byfaith]

thank you sweet charlotte

I was talking to my T the other day and I was describing my wife relationship with her son. He said it sounded like enmeshment issues. I had believed it was enmeshment but I didn't say anything to my T I just let him say it.

I can "understand" my wife's closeness with her son. He has been with her all his life he is 31 years old. He had a stroke right before he turned 20. He then developed SZ about 4 years ago. He does not get violent, yet. There was an issue about a month ago but it didn't have anything to do with me, he wasn't getting his way... .and he was acting out.

You are right, the trigger would have been something else. I don't think she thinks I am unfaithful now... .in her way she has detached herself sexually from me, so if I think something, it doesn't affect her. She has put herself in a position not to be "hurt".

Now it's just a multitude of other things that hurt her.  

[byfaith]

FF,

Root cause. FOO... .her father degraded women, he was abusive. her brothers had a level of incestual behavior, even her dad. She lost her virginity to a half brother when she was 15 that she didn't know was her half brother until after the fact. This is when her lifelong battle with depression began. There were other male family members that molested her when she was young, not sure what age. She would go to friend's house and the fathers would make sexual advances towards her, taking her hand and placing it on his hard on over his jeans. multitude of other examples, you get the idea

Basically all the men i her life she was supposed to trust did these things to her. In her 20's she used mens "wants and needs against them" that is what she told me. She would use them to get what she wanted.

Do I have compassion on her yes, can I fix it? no, should I suffer for it no. But I am.

[Silveron]

I know what you are going through.  Been married 11 1/2 yrs and my wife is just like yours.  Sex comes once every few months, she makes up excuses but i'm under a constant barrage of fire from her every night that the "want" of having sex with her is starting to diminish.  You can only be put down for so long to the point you think to yourself "Why would I want sex with someone who can do these things to me?"

It's not even the sex that bothers me.  We have a 7 yr old daughter and my wife basically refuses to go out together as a family.  Maybe to a restaurant once a year but that's about it.  I spent my last birthday taking our daughter to watch a movie she wanted to see.  I ended up going with my wife's female co-worker.  It was this co-worker who gave me a birthday card and then texted me about how it was from her and my wife.  Yet, it was only her co-worker that signed it.  Asked my wife about it and she was like 'Oh, I forgot' in a nonchalant way.

You become numb to the rejection, to the put-downs.  I have.  It's expected.  It's expected that holidays and special occasions will be ruined or attempted to be ruined.  It's expected that there cannot be or never will be a bond with the person you married anymore.  She's there in body, but mentally, soul-wise she is gone.  It's expected that abuse will continue and you are only there to be used.  It's expected that financially my wife will never contribute and only take from me and others.  She will always be thousands in debt with maxed out credit cards.

And what the worst part is, no matter how hard I try to keep my daughter out of my wife's insanity it's pretty much expected my daughter will follow my wife's mental disease.  My wife matches just about all of the BPD traits.  Been to three different counselors, last one a psychologist who told me my wife needs years of therapy.  Of course my wife quit and doesn't think anything is wrong with her.

So the sexual intimacy is just another item in the list that I have been living without just like so many others of you.  And it upsets me that we give up on one of most important things that life has to offer because of our SO's issues.  I cannot leave my wife (at least right now), my daughter made me promise to not get divorced.  I can't go back on my word, I would be throwing her into the lion's den.  Byfaith, you are not alone.

[Concerns]

Wow... .Concerns. I know I cannot go that long. There must be something that keeps you there. Right now my only "something" keeping me here is caring about my wife enough to see if she will get help for her problem.

It's my son. He's four. He loves both of us and the unity of the family. I will do or not do  just about anything to try and keep it together. I love my wife. She needs help and I haven't given up yet. It's also financial. We are a little middle class family. It takes both our paychecks to make it. If we split and I will have my son for a majority of the time then it will be difficult to make ends meet.

It is a deep, deep problem in her mind and in her soul. She has to be willing first to dig down to the root of the problem and then deal with it. I believe she knows what the root is, I believe I know what it is (from everything she has shared with me). I can only help her so far.

So here is the rub... .she has to be motivated to change. She has to want to dig into herself to resolve her issues.  

This may sound harsh but I am realizing that it is not my fault or my responsibility to suffer because of what people did to her in her past. There are also situations she let herself be involved in that were HER decision. That is not my fault. I have opened every door for her that I have been led to open for her to find help. I am out of doors. There are things that have formed the type of person I am but I don't keep holding onto those things to control my future and my relationships with people in my life.  

Like my wife, it seems she is living in the past. My wife will often bring up issues about her past, my past, our past as reasons for her dismay. I'm not sure but it seems that BPD's are stuck in the past. Something has arrested their development. You are not responsible for bringing her forward.

I have thought about marriage counseling but in our case I don't believe it will help.

My wife "doesn't believe in marriage counseling". She "doesn't need an outsider to tell her what she already knows... " But if you ask her directly, she cannot come up with any reasons. Her not knowing is a perfect reason to go. You really don't know if it will help unless you try. Or else the decision not to go is just a blind decision without real basis.IMO.

My belief is that when she met me she idealized me. I believe she has been looking for the "perfect" man all of her life one that will never let her down. I think she convinced herself I was that man. Little by little I was devalued. I think the whole "trigger" was a drawn out squeeze of the trigger. That moment was the end of the trigger pull. Leading up to that so, many things were happening. She thought I was lusting after women in so many different scenarios. It's just so messed up. I think she needed a final reason to detach from me.

We met in May 2011 and for almost 2 years our sex life was great. I was still dealing with the BPD issues through that time I think I discovered the term BPD about 3 years ago.

An idealized view of what relationships should be, I think, is, in part, a cultural problem in this country. No one is perfect. Everyone has flaws. A relationship is just that-a relationship. If she is insecure or has had things happen in her life that have crippled her ability to trust then it will surface later. Sex in the beginning for us was very hot and then nothing. Like night and day. It was very obvious to me this was her internal struggle. Because I'm perfect!  But really I am a fantastic husband and father. I take pride in that. I have to find things that lift me up or I would be despondent and I wouldn't be able to function. I would get dragged into her abyss. I won't allow that to happen bc I have been before and I didn't like that place. I have tried for years to take care of her. She wont call doctors, wont initiate therapy, goes off meds, you name it. Finally, I realized: I can't do this all. Part of the reason she devalued me is bc I do everything. I try and make it as easy as possible for her in some twisted effort at caregiving. This is my mistake. If she doesn't do it then it wont work.    

I have done nothing but read about BPD, depression, sexual disorders... .I am exhausted. On top of all this her son lives with us who suffers with paranoid schizophrenia. She has enmeshment issues with him. I have spent so much time dealing with these issues I have lost myself. He believes I called him something of a criminal nature (don't want to name it here). This is a delusion that has lasted for over 4 years.

It's all about you. Take care of yourself. Exercise if you can. Get some hobbies. Enjoy life as much as possible. We are only here once that we know of. Find yourself if you are lost. I believe in God but you are living in this and have to bring yourself out. Her decisions are hers. She HAS to take care of herself. Be the best man you know how and believe in yourself.

I kind of went off on a tangent here. It has been a little helpful writing this stuff out and sharing it.

With the intimacy issue I think I am at a breaking point

If she isn't willing to treat you like a human being then you need a plan. It's something to work on. You will feel better for it. You deserve it. Everyone deserves love.

[waverider]

One of the issues with this is that the relationship shifts from a bonded equal partnership basis onto one that can be more of a carer and patient basis for cases of low functioning. For high function partners the other partner becomes a useful household commodity.

Eventually the second partner switches interest as it can become permanent

It is hard to keep a healthy even footing in these situations.

A partnership can be the loneliest place at times as your ability to do something about it is limited. You become insular by default.

[enlighten me]

With me it stopped when she fell pregnant. We next had sex on the doctors advice to speed up the birth and that was the last time. We split up just before my sons first birthday. In that final year I hardly even got a kiss.

[Notwendy]

I agree with SweetCharlotte about not disclosing all thoughts and fantasies. I have heard of couples who feel they need to tell each other if they feel any attraction to another person. I would disagree with this as I think it could only be hurtful. If we are in a committed relationship with someone and feel attraction to someone, then this is an ethical situation for us to handle. We have more control over our actions than our instincts. Telling our partner may make us feel temporarily better, as some sort of confession but it doesn't relieve us of our responsibility to honor the commitment and can unnecessarily hurt the other person.

I experienced my H getting into some old school memoirs and reaction to a picture of a crush as if I had cheated on him. I didn't understand it at the time. I felt so shamed during this time as he felt hurt about my having feelings for someone I knew years before I met my H. JADING achieved nothing at the time.

Now I don't feel shame. I cared about people in my life and they are a part of who I am today. I have been faithful to my H since we started dating. I think he realizes that now but there was not much I could do to change his thoughts and feelings.

I just want to reinforce that I don't think Byfaith did anything wrong. He had feelings for someone - well he is a caring person. It is sad that others have mistreats his wife sexually but he didn't. I don't have a solution to offer, but I don't think shame has a place here.

[byfaith]

in hindsight we learn lessons of course, well some of us... .I should have set a boundary concerning my email with my then girlfriend and now my wife. She was my girlfriend at the time when SHE found the email that I had written to my previous wife, my divorce wasn't final but the marriage was over. There were so many things I didn't see. I didn't perceive at the time what was going on. 

Before we were married I didn't discuss fantasies but I did talk about some of my previous weaknesses, for some reason I felt I could trust this woman. I have learned some valuable lessons about divulging too much information. She has used my weaknesses against me (over time, she wore me down, and I didn't realize what was going on). God has given me much strength to overcome my problems.

Thanks for all of the advice. I have some really hard decisions to make. Just trying to keep conflict to a minimum which is not easy.   

[formflier]

  Thanks for all of the advice. I have some really hard decisions to make. Just trying to keep conflict to a minimum which is not easy.     

       What kind of decisions are you pondering?  Can you give an example of a time when you struggled to keep conflict to a minimum?  It may not seem that working on conflict will help on intimacy issues, but you have to find something to build on.  Something where you guys are working together.  Hang in there!        

FF

[byfaith]

Hey FF,

Been out of pocket for a few days. Want to address some of my ponderings in another post. Maybe entitled " examples of keeping conflict to a minimum".  I do think quite often what it would be like to end the marriage and just move on but I know that is not the answer right now. She is going to therapy... .I will address some of that in my new post. Well I am at work have to go thanks for all the advice everyone. I do realize I have been damaged emotionally and I have to end that. I am worn out feeling this way day in and day out.

BF

[formflier]

  I do realize I have been damaged emotionally and I have to end that. I am worn out feeling this way day in and day out.  

     Please modify this in your thinking to "I AM emotionally damaged and I have work to do to heal my wounds"  You have control over this.    Take back control of your r/s!  You can do this.       

FF