BPD and making friends

[Depression = 72% of members]

Here is the conundrum of BPD in a nutshell:

W does not like her co-workers.  W mentioned she did not like a particular co-worker from the first meeting, and told me she was planning on keeping her distance.  W keeps distance, and co-worker becomes hostile.  W wonders why co-worker doesn't like her.  W decides all her co-workers hate her and she hates them, and says she doesn't want to eat lunch with them anymore.  Today she's hurt because co-workers didn't even ask her to eat with them.  This despite her telling me day in and day out how she hates doing anything with them.

W complains that nobody likes her and she has no friends.  Other people will invite her to do things, and she usually complains of being tired or too busy.  A few weeks ago, some people invited her to join them for dinner after work.  She declined, saying she would rather come home and see me, and I could not go along because I had other plans for the evening.  She complains that nobody asks her to do stuff anymore. 

This is one of the hardest things for me to wrap my head around.  Clearly, her behavior is self-defeating.  And after knowing her long enough, I know this is her pattern, and I think she knows this is her pattern. Yet, for some stupid reason I keep thinking she will understand this and change her behavior.  It just seems so impossible to me that someone would behave in a self-defeating way like this and not see it and want to change. 

[maxsterling]

Here is the conundrum of BPD in a nutshell:

W does not like her co-workers.  W mentioned she did not like a particular co-worker from the first meeting, and told me she was planning on keeping her distance.  W keeps distance, and co-worker becomes hostile.  W wonders why co-worker doesn't like her.  W decides all her co-workers hate her and she hates them, and says she doesn't want to eat lunch with them anymore.  Today she's hurt because co-workers didn't even ask her to eat with them.  This despite her telling me day in and day out how she hates doing anything with them.

W complains that nobody likes her and she has no friends.  Other people will invite her to do things, and she usually complains of being tired or too busy.  A few weeks ago, some people invited her to join them for dinner after work.  She declined, saying she would rather come home and see me, and I could not go along because I had other plans for the evening.  She complains that nobody asks her to do stuff anymore. 

This is one of the hardest things for me to wrap my head around.  Clearly, her behavior is self-defeating.  And after knowing her long enough, I know this is her pattern, and I think she knows this is her pattern. Yet, for some stupid reason I keep thinking she will understand this and change her behavior.  It just seems so impossible to me that someone would behave in a self-defeating way like this and not see it and want to change. 

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[Cat Familiar]

Here is the conundrum of BPD in a nutshell:

W complains that nobody likes her and she has no friends.  Other people will invite her to do things, and she usually complains of being tired or too busy.  A few weeks ago, some people invited her to join them for dinner after work.  She declined, saying she would rather come home and see me, and I could not go along because I had other plans for the evening.  She complains that nobody asks her to do stuff anymore.  

Yes, I hear this whine frequently: "Nobody likes me." The irony is that the people my husband wants to like him are usually deluged with friends and he is just one of many. While the people who seek him out seem to fall into that category of "any club that will have me as a member, I don't want to join."

[formflier]

  Have you tried asking her for solutions?    My wife has started to say that "I"m a good teacher, but I'm not "social" like the others", basically that she is not part of the crowd.  Any idea how to validate that?  Or how to respond?  I listened as she told me this on the phone, but really didn't know what to say.  I knew to avoid disagreeing and talking her out of it.          

FF

[maxsterling]

FF - yes, I've tried that route.  It steers the conversation into a more constructive direction, but in the long term does nothing.  Our MC and her T do the same thing, and still W's behavior is the same.  W doesn't do any of the suggestions given.  Once I started recognizing her T was already doing this, I stepped out of that role.  My conclusion is that W knows the solution, just won't do it. 

[SweetCharlotte]

FF - yes, I've tried that route.  It steers the conversation into a more constructive direction, but in the long term does nothing.  Our MC and her T do the same thing, and still W's behavior is the same.  W doesn't do any of the suggestions given.  Once I started recognizing her T was already doing this, I stepped out of that role.  My conclusion is that W knows the solution, just won't do it. 

Part of getting older, or maturing into one's late thirties, forties and fifties, is getting used to having fewer friends and socializing less outside of one's family and workplace. People get busy in this phase of life; they are occupied with children, elder care, and/or increased responsibility at work. You begin to find that you are not as engaged in activities that fall outside of those categories. It's normal but like anything else to which we struggle to adapt ourselves, it presents special challenges to pwBPD.

[formflier]

     

FF - yes, I've tried that route.  It steers the conversation into a more constructive direction, but in the long term does nothing.  Our MC and her T do the same thing, and still W's behavior is the same.  W doesn't do any of the suggestions given.  Once I started recognizing her T was already doing this, I stepped out of that role.  My conclusion is that W knows the solution, just won't do it.   

       I'm not suggesting that others come up with solution.  Ask her.  After the first attempt at validation, I would only discuss her ideas for solutions with her.  Keep redirecting back to a chance for her to think about a fix (vice complaint).  It may not work, but from what I'm seeing, nothing else has either.  The idea is that she gets no "release" from griping to you.  She knows you will talk to her about it, but the only way that talk happens is for her to focus on solutions, vice negativity.  My guess is she doesn't want solutions.  You are in the clear because you are still present for her.  With a "help me understand" attitude that focuses back on her to solve.    If she just wants to be negative, disengage.  Let her know you are available to talk about solutions, and that the need for a solution is apparent and doesn't need to be discussed further.  Might work,      

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

Once I started recognizing her T was already doing this, I stepped out of that role.  My conclusion is that W knows the solution, just won't do it. 

Yes, this is the same pattern I saw. BPDh's therapist would give him good, helpful advice, ways to modify his behaviors, and he'd just not even try to put them to use. It's incredibly frustrating to watch them struggle, but not sure what other options there are.

They are adults, and they must get something out of it, or they'd change the behavior? Or at least try a different approach? I'm as stumped as you are.

[maxsterling]

Once I started recognizing her T was already doing this, I stepped out of that role.  My conclusion is that W knows the solution, just won't do it. 

Yes, this is the same pattern I saw. BPDh's therapist would give him good, helpful advice, ways to modify his behaviors, and he'd just not even try to put them to use. It's incredibly frustrating to watch them struggle, but not sure what other options there are.

They are adults, and they must get something out of it, or they'd change the behavior? Or at least try a different approach? I'm as stumped as you are.

What does it gain her by not taking the actions suggested?  I just heard her talking to an AA friend last night on the phone, with W complaining how she has no friends and being too dependent on me.  Then she discussed with the friend about having not gone to AA meetings for awhile, about how that is part of her problem, how she needs to go, made a few excuses, then hung up and spent the whole night in, waiting for me to come home from my second job.  The night before she was telling me "I wish I had the motivation to read."

Depression is part of it, and I understand it.  But I have been depressed, and known many depressed family or friends, and nearly every one of them is more functional than my wife currently is, and eventually take some of the steps to help themselves, or at least quit complaining and blaming others.  With W right now, it is like she complains of having no friends, yet spends the evening conversing via text message with people, then gets invited to do things, and decides to stay home and then complain some more.   Perhaps the real issue is not what she is complaining about?  In other words, the "nobody wants to be friends with me" is really an excuse because she is shy or has shame?  I know she feels insecure about her appearance right now.  Or maybe that she "wants" to feel that she has no friends, because that is the identity she knows and is comfortable with?  The reality is, I've never met anyone that others wanted to get to know more than my W.  My family all wanted to get to know her, co-workers, people she meets at 12-step meetings... .

[Grey Kitty]

Max, you can't fix this, and don't need to fix this. It is your wife's problem, let her deal with it.

1. When you have the energy, validate that she is lonely and isolated when she expresses that.

2. Unless she ASKS you for help getting friends, don't offer he ideas. Even then, probably better not to bother--she isn't looking for solutions. She's looking to complain and get sympathy.

3. Put your own oxygen mask on instead. Make sure YOU work on building up your friends/family/support network, by putting time and energy into the relationships with the trustworthy people in your life.

[Concerns]

Hi, maxsterling. I'm with Grey Kitty on this. My take: addictions take many forms. Behavior patterns act in much the same way. Behavior patterns, especially destructive ones, are ingrained into someone's personality. Changing these patterns, I feel, are harder than coming off any drug. People have to want to change. They have to do the work. Most try and give up. It's difficult and sometimes it's easier to stay in a destructive pattern bc it requires them to break and rebuild their personality. It's a scary thing. It's easier to blame others-"no one wants to be my friend... ." bc then its something that's happening TO them and the ability to dismiss is increased. It doesn't get to the heart of the matter. Being motivated to change internally has its drawbacks. If it didn't then everyone would reach out for support. It's really a difficult road but one worth walking.