It's one thing to be hurt, but I was also insulted

[thisworld]

Hi,

I'm learning so much from all the comments and experiences, here. These help me access myself a bit more. I'm now able to differentiate between being hurt and being insulted and this helps me understand why I behaved the way I did in my short relationship with the BPD ex. Any comment will be appreciated. Maybe with your help, I will be able to delve deeper into myself.

I think the worldwide narrative about love relationships somehow teaches us to recognize our hurt. I'm now realizing more clearly that I have some other feelings, too. I feel insulted. I feel terribly, terribly insulted. And I think this is the reason for my anger, not my hurt. 

My individual reaction to hurt is usually sadness. Deep down, there is perhaps a little child saying "Why are you doing this to me?" But that child is ready to approach the person who practiced the hurtful action. She is ready to try again. Now, I'm not someone who can completely blame someone else for my hurt. In the end of the day, I'm the person that hurts, maybe someone else would react differently. Maybe I would react differently under different circumstances. I don't know. Each hurt is a new discovery for me. Hurt may be accidental. I take my responsibility and share why I was hurt with my partner. I take the risk of being vulnerable, which I believe is one of the bases for intimacy. I think being hurt is not always a big thing. I won't cry for the rest of my life because you hurt me. It can be sorted out in the adult world. I believe communication and respect can. 

Being insulted is another matter. This isn't about the little child in me. This is about the adult, this woman who has self- awareness and who shares her boundaries her partner. I'm a communicative partner in my relationships, I'm pretty transparent. It's not difficult to know me, I'm pretty coherent. When my expressed values, my boundaries not only as a lover but as a human being in general are violated over and over, I don't feel hurt, I feel insulted. The question then is not "Why are you doing this to me?", it is rather "Whoa, how dare you do this to any human being? What is this exceptionalism you have designed for yourself?" That arrogance, that entitlement makes me angry. Especially, when I see the dupe high in their eyes, that particular satisfaction derived from consciously lying to someone.

I'm the daughter of a narcissistic mother. That means having to think about your boundaries if you want to preserve your self-respect and not fall into the spiral of her provocative, passive aggressive behaviours only to regret later. My narcissistic mother could turn me into a really ugly person if I didn't think about my boundaries. That's why, boundaries are not only about preventing hurt for me, they are also about recognizing my own limits as an individual and remaining within them so I don't lose my calm, my control and become nasty myself. I thought about this so much, analysed my own behaviours, thought about what I needed to behave better. I shared them with my partner. Boundaries were negotiatable in our house. He agreed, we designed our boundaries together. And then he started taking particular pleasure from deceiving me and violating those very things. He chose neither his comfort, nor mine. He chose the discomfort and the high he got from violation. His main desire was control, not happiness or comfort. It was purposeful, I feel insulted. 

Writing about boundaries, principles blah blah makes me sound like a very strict person perhaps. That's not how I see myself. I think I'm pretty liberal actually. Many of my boundaries are probably about living with things other people would not even allow near themselves. Still, it was like a bottomless well. 

Sometimes, witnessing my partner's chameleon character and his visible immediate attachment to others, the way other people seemed to excite him more than myself made me sad. But I thought that the feeling was more about my fears of losing him and it was about me, my insecurities, my wishes. When he tried to bring my confidence down with manipulative behaviours, subtle narcissistic attacks and two-sided complement-insults, his character assassinations behind my back to his exes while constantly praising me to my face, I was not particularly hurt but angry from a distance - like if I had the power, I wouldn't allow anyone on the planet to be attacked like that. On purpose. With a grin on the face. Now, that's someone having a power fight with me. And it's so bleh:)) I find it sad that he based his relationship with me on a power fight rather than cooperation, but the acts themselves were not hurtful.   

I think I did the best thing ending this relationship and I will not remain friends. Not because of the hurt but because of what I find very insulting - like I never existed, which I didn't for him. Otherwise, I may lose my self-respect.

[C.Stein]

Very well spoken.  

We shouldn't necessarily feel hurt, but insulted by repeated incidences of what can only be seen as a fundamental lack of respect.  It still hurts though, that someone who claims to love you would also treat you with such disrespect.  But I see the value in taking insult.  I would if it were an acquaintance or friend, why wouldn't I for a lover?  I believe the answer to that is ... .I shouldn't and will no more.

[Jazzy]

this world

You  hit the nail on the head. Hurt vs Anger.  I understand why I was willing to do anything to  remain friends with my ex    when I first came to know he had replaced me ( the hurt ) and why  the cruel behavior and name calling that followed made me realise that I don't want him in my life . ( anger). My own situation becomes much clearer to me now.

[thisworld]

C.S.Stein,

Thank you for your comment. Your response made me think of the role respect plays in my life. When do I expect it, when do I not expect it, etc. And you said, "I would if it were an acquaintance or friend, why wouldn't I for a lover?" This was really enlightening, it helps me verbalize something I've had in me for a while. I think yes, we all take more than usual crap - for lack of a better word- from our partners and give them more crap, too. I think this is only normal, intimacy brings new discoveries, new reactions. However, I would expect my relationships to be built on the premise that my partner is also willing to protect my being, puts more effort into this than he would do to protect some other people like ordinary friends. (We were co-habiting and sharing my income, etc so I think we had enough practical closeness for me to expect). The first became unproblematic also because of this, too much crap but too little protection.

Seeing BPD as an illness helps me understand him but this understanding doesn't change the fact that with or without the illness, I think he was a very unfair person - not only to me but also to people he calls his friends (sometimes he says he has no friends, and I think that's more true, his friends do not give him anything we so readily give to our friends). This may not be so with all individuals with BPD, this was my experience with one person. I'll now think about the "what" and "how" of the illness. With my ex, my reason to not remain friends is this severe unfairness, not necessarily BPD. Thank you for giving me hints so that I can think about this deeper. 

Jazzy,

In my experience anger has always been a secondary feeling. That is, I first feel something that I'm not aware of right at that moment, experience anger and then when I look into myself, there is always something, another feeling under that anger. That feeling may be hurt, too. In this sense, it's not like anger vs hurt to me. But in this experience with the BPD ex, what was beneath anger was not always hurt.

Best,

[C.Stein]

I think yes, we all take more than usual crap - for lack of a better word- from our partners and give them more crap, too. I think this is only normal, intimacy brings new discoveries, new reactions. However, I would expect my relationships to be built on the premise that my partner is also willing to protect my being, puts more effort into this than he would do to protect some other people like ordinary friends.

I agree, generally people will allow more transgressions from loved ones than they ever would from others in their life.  The thing I have a problem with is our loved ones should be the ones who show us the most respect!  When they don't I must ask myself how much does this person really love and value me?  This is something I have come to understand a little better as a result of my relationship with my ex.  Still working on understanding why someone who claims to be deeply in love with me could treat me in such a way.  It boggles my mind ... .and perhaps the only thing I need to understand here is I can't really understand it at all.  I just have to accept it for what it is.

More importantly I am trying to understand why I allowed someone to repeatedly treat me with disrespect.  I will stand my ground when it happens but what good does that do me when I am standing on unstable ground by allowing repeated violations?  It is like I am standing on a beach with the waves crashing around my feet and the sand slowing eroding away.  Sooner or later I have to move, but why should I have to?  The answer is I shouldn't.  We trust our loved ones to protect and cherish the love we give them and we do the same for them.  We should always feel like we are on stable ground with someone we love.  There should be no need to move.  

I am beginning to understand, with your insight here, that a healthy relationship is built entirely on respect.  I used to look at it as relationships have four key elements ... .love, respect, honesty and trust. Now I am beginning to see in order to have love, trust and honesty you must first have respect.  Respect is the keystone, not one of the four corners of a relationship foundation.

[hollycat]

In the last text exchange with BpdH, i listed all the ugly things he has called me: deceptive, abusive, despicable lying thief, neglectful, uncooperative, won't listen. He never curses me, but these words are equally hurtful.  When he referred to my salary from 3 jobs as the "pennies" I earned; when he told a car salesman, to whom I was explaining my busy work schedule and who commented to me that I sure do work hard, my H said with a laugh, "yes, but I work harder." This from a man whose only income was a disability check and my "pennies" and who spent all day in a chair in front of a computer, naked, no less; who let me go two years without a kitchen in our old house.

I listed all these things and texted to him that these were not the comments of a loving partner, but rather a person who hates me.  I sure wouldn't remain friends with a female who talked to me in this way and I am not going to take it from a Husband. It helped me put my feelings into perspective and while I definitely miss the fantasy man, I do not not miss the real man. I keep these texts so I can remind myself when I start to feel weak and lonely.

Of course, his response was that I was allowing my reticular cortex to program me into negative thinking (see, he will not accept responsibility for what he called me; if I am hurt, it's my fault for allowing those words to hurt me).  I said: BS, call a spade a spade and those were the words you used. 

See, I think I am finding it easier to detach from an unpleasant, insulting person all the time!

Thank you!

[thisworld]

Hi Hollycat,

I think you did a good job not trading your sanity and reality for a bit of attention or approval from this H. I didn't in this final relationship, but I had stayed longer in a relationship with a narc and felt I was dying a slow death during the relationship. The moment I got out, I was able to breathe. Its effects were not only sadness, hurt etc. Abuse of this sort makes you dizzy, you cannot concentrate, you lose your very basic functions. I'm happy that we are not like that at the moment. We should consider ourselves lucky.

My ex didn't curse me either, but thinking about it I'd rather be cursed than being covert aggressively invalidated all the time. Cursing is more or less general, there is that anger. Being invalidated personally hits you from what is dear to you (usually, they know or sense these because they are in an intimate relationship with us; some other times they just guess using society's general inclinations.) The thing is this kind of invalidation - emotional abuse- comes from a variety of disordered individuals, be it narcs, psychopaths, or borderlines. Knowing the workings of the disease may help for a while  but actually, for the taker of abuse, a burn is a burn is a burn whether it comes from the oven, the stove or the fireplace. We are more to hurt because our primary relationship with these people was a romantic relationship. If was his caretaker, if he was my child, I could live with him - I think. As a partner, I could and did practice some caretaking. But when that balance was lost - and it's often lost through a very painful process for us- I had to go.

C.Stein, thank you again for your response. I also think that respect is the framework on which everything else is built - although it is not as presentable a word as love or passion  To me, this is not something on a superficial level of behaviours - politeness etc- or personal finesse. It is just a basic recognition that the other person is not your extension. They are a fully independent "other" with different needs, to which we need to respond if we want to relate to them. If this doesn't happen, love in the sense I want it in my life cannot occur. My low-grade narc mother - who spent decades invalidating me- loves me. If you try to hurt me in the slightest sense, and if I asked for her help, she would come like a tornado to you. Why? Because she takes my hurt personally, I'm her extension. It was very exhausting but also kind of hilarious during my divorce. Her emotions were so heightened that I had to remind her a couple of times that I was the one going through divorce. And she wouldn't allow me my pain, but I had to calm her down. She was so angry the only time I happened to cry in front of her. Is this love? In her world, yes. In my world, it was the cause of all my difficulties when I was younger. Similarly, sadists love their "object"s. When someone does not have recognition or respect for my being as something separate, I can only be loved as an "object". That's why, respect or whatever you name it is the framework or the foundation for me, too.

[C.Stein]

When someone does not have recognition or respect for my being as something separate, I can only be loved as an "object". That's why, respect or whatever you name it is the framework or the foundation for me, too.

I have always believed and encouraged my partners to maintain their own independence and individuality.  I find it very unhealthy when individuals are defined by their relationship, both to each other and to the world.  When I see couples that define themselves in relation to their partner it says to me something is wrong.  You are your own person and it is critical to maintain that, especially when in a romantic relationship.  Once you start losing your identity to the relationship or partner then nothing but trouble follows.  I think this is a big problem for pwBPD.  The look to get their identity from their partner. We all know what happens as a result.  

I even go so far as to recommend having different bedrooms (if possible) so each person has their own space where they can be by themselves.  

[hollycat]

This,

Again you hit the nail on the head. All my friends were insistent I was being emotionally abused and I didn't see it. I do now.  It is downright devious and planned.  He knew, because I told him, his opinion was important to me and he honed on me just like my mother did: invalidated all my feelings and opinions.  A while ago, I was thinking about why I chose BpdH and I realized his behaviors were much like I grew up with. He is much worse in terms of delusion and paranoia but other behaviors are similar.  It was an epiphany for me. 

I really am getting to the point where I don't like him at all.  I have never pined over anyone who insulted me in the past, why should I pine over him?

I am beginning to hope he does not show up for Christmas.