Lingering Issues ~

[scraps66]

Currently I am four years out of my divorce from exNPD/BPDw.  A four year divorce. 

During the course of the divorce ex starts seeing one of our neighbor’s best friends.  They are still together some five years later and ex has increasingly been building the bf up to be “dad.”  Though she won’t commit to marriage, she is now calling him, on some documentation, “step dad.”  She has him helping coach S8s baseball team, she has him bring S8 or S11 to activities even when I am available.  Kids talk about him all the time.

After a short dating time, three months, my ex had “gotten herself pregnant.”  She “forgot” to take her birth control and we had S11.  Then after having S8, and what I then had found out about her previous husband, they couldn’t or he wouldn’t get her pregnant, this was entrapment for me.  After getting pregnant things changed 180 degrees.  Loss of affection, verbal/psychological/emotional abuse.  Consistently for four years.  I file for divorce, we live together for a year, ex gets a job, and voila, I’m kicked out of the house.

During that year of separation ex had started sleeping around.  Then some five months after I was booted, she introduces the kids to the now boyfriend.  He eventually moves in during the period I am kicked out and living elsewhere.

So it is astonishing to me that ex gives this bf support that I never had.  Suspiciously so as I know this bp does not fundamentally have the tools to have a “real” relationship.  Their relationship seems to have success based on ex still having me to isolate and exclude.  Really seems to be what she needs all the time, the “I can only win if someone else loses.”  Consistently I am in the position of losing something.

Another factor in ex’s relationship is the close ties to my neighborhood.  I ended up moving back into the marital residence after ex lived there for 15 months with the bf.  The bf is best friends with one of my neighbors who just so happens to have a son that is best friend with my S8.  So ex always has this level of surveillance and vehicle to get information to my neighbors and from my neighbors about me.  I have not been approached by anyone about things she may say but there has always been an awkwardness for me in this neighborhood since moving back in. 

But, I still see her relationship as all fantasy.  She is obviously very active with the parent groups of the church, the sports teams and she tries to with school personnel but we have had our bouts with school over S11.

S11 is suffering as I am, with PAS.  He is to the point he is not interested in doing the things he enjoys while at my house, wears clothes that emulate the boyfriend’s, resists wearing clothes I buy, resists eating the food he enjoys when I cook, telling me to “shut up” or “just go away” and behaving badly in school and the social setting.

The last 10 months time have been stressful to the point it is affecting me physically and affecting my current relationship.  During a portion of this time ex and I were going through a second bout of court-ordered coparent counseling.  Also during this time period S11s behavior has been the worst ever.  Suspensions and his defiance towards me the worst during this time.  I don’t think a coincidence that the behavior spiraled while we were going to coparent counseling.  Ex has shown a willingness to involve the children in inappropriate conversations over the years. 

I have taken up discussions with my gf about how this is “all a façade” for ex and that S11s is being conditioned to not enjoy his time with me.  The bf, if he’s so great why isn’t he an actual step dad and why years ago couldn’t she tell the truth that he was living with her, not just visiting.  My take, she doesn’t want him to be a real step dad because she would have to split everything with him financially.  Splitting the kids with the bf helps the PAS against me and makes it ‘appear” as if ex is normal to all those around her.  And leaves some people to see that it’s working with the bf, but didn’t with me so I must be the crazy one.

My gf just doesn’t believe it, claims I am paranoid about all of this and I probably am. 

There are some controls I can put on the custody stuff, but I need to start doing things a little differently.  I am going through tests that I think are going to show that I have an ulcer or some other type of issue brought about by stress.  The PAS stuff is really getting me down and seeing the bf have the relationship I should have with my kids doesn’t help.  I am certain ex knows all of this and the reason she supports him.   

My gf is telling me I need counseling, and she is probably right, but with all the support S11 is getting right now and the things I need to get done I just don’t have the energy to arrange yet another appointment during the week.

[bravhart1]

Take heart Scraps. One thing I think you would be wise to remember is that just because a person is in a relationship, whether for a long or short length of time, does NOT mean it is a healthy relationship. There are plenty of people on this very board that stayed with their BPDp for five, ten, even twenty plus years. I don't think they would tell you it was healthy.

In fact I'd take it to the next level and say the fact that you could only stick it out for four years probably speaks well to your mental health.

If you can afford therapy by all means you should go. These PA situations can get even worse over time and I think you need as much support as you can get. I think I would be in therapy for myself every week as though it were a huge luxury if I could afford it. And FYI as the gf now wife on the other side of the BPDp like your gf, try not to let the BPDp take up too much of your time or attention, I know it's hard ( the Bpd like to keep your focus on them) but the healthy loving woman in your life should get priority over the ex.

[Ulysses]

Scraps, I think I might be experiencing similar issues with my exH.  I want to tell you that you are NOT paranoid.  In my exH case, he plays mindgames.  My T calls his behavior "crazy-making."  If you aren't seeing a T, I hope you will consider.  My exH has a distorted view of reality in many ways.  He distorts people, and I allowed myself to be distorted by him (I can almost laugh about it now - I went in his eyes, from a great mother, to an abusive mother, to a great mother, to a lousy mother, in about 12 months  I've also been classified as a snobby socialite, and if you know me, that is pretty far from the truth.  I began to think there was something wrong with me, and also, my self-esteem plummeted.  Could it be that your ex sees you in a new relationship and is turning up the pressure?

My exH goes to many school events and tries to come off as having a great family, father of the year, Mr. Moral and Upstanding, and sometimes I feel like the one who is a failure.  I'm not remarried, I'm not even in a relationship.  I don't really want to be at this point, until I work through some more things, feel like my kids are ok, and feel less upset/reactive by exH's antics.  ExH schedules activities without talking to me first, and the activities occur during my time.  I even state I don't agree to the activity (time/scheduling and money issues), and he signs them up anyway.  He pays for it and tells me he and his new wife can take the children during their time with me.  All against the parenting plan.  But if I say no, I will be the "bad guy" (since he primes the kids for the activity before he mentions it to me), or painted as an angry, vindictive ex.  A very nice set-up indeed.  I want to do what's best for the children, and that often means I don't speak up at this point.  He also tells me I'm not allowed to come to school activities if they occur on "his time," which is also not true per the parenting plan.  If I show up he makes it clear to the children that they can say hi, but then they aren't allowed to be with me.  Our kids' school is private and makes a huge effort to create a community for both the children and the families.  It's one of the main communities I've had in the last 5 years, and I feel like it's slipping away.  It's like he has to show up and compete with me to provide a better image of himself or something.

My kids both take music lessons, and have for years.  So far, exH won't let the teacher come to his house to teach them.

He has instructed the children to lie to me.  D7 T is working with her on this, and D7 is brave enough to tell me the truth.  S12 is sometimes, but I feel PA is going on big-time with him.  He is meaner and meaner to me over the last few months, and lies to me about most everything.  It's awful, especially since we used to be close and always honest with each other.  This lying thing began last December, I just found out today.  My T helps me handle this.

As I learned living with a H who lies and gaslights, it really does a number on you.  Your ex has/is lying and gaslighting.  You know the truth because you lived it and have experienced it.  I feel like I got away from H but now am being lied to and gaslighted (attempts, anyway) by S12.  I wonder what it is like for my S12 to lie to me.

So, I guess I'm taking a long time to say I feel for you.  This can be so heartbreaking at times.  You are not paranoid, and you're not alone.  I hope you can find some peace for yourself. 

[livednlearned]

Without counseling, the PA in my situation would have sprouted wings and taken over. I really needed a neutral third-party to hear me describe how I interacted with S14 and give me pointers on where I was losing him. Dealing with PA demands non-intuitive skills, at least in my experience.

It also helped a lot to read about BPD because that's where I found the kernels of wisdom about how the disorder gets passed down to kids as traits. You may be experiencing PAS, and you may be seeing the next generation of BPD traits. Even if our kids don't develop the full-blown disorder, they desperately need therapeutic level skills from a trusted adult so they don't interpret BPD traits as the be-all end-all way to solve interpersonal problems. Once we can see the behavior for what it is, it becomes easier to change our own behavior to redirect it.

I could not have done that without a therapist.

It also took a lot of practice and patience.

Also, about the step dad/BF. I agree with bravhart1 about the misleading appearances of BPD relationships. I was married for 10 years and people had no idea. It's possible your ex is targeting you and that allows the BF to avoid the full force of her disorder. It's also very possible he is walking on eggshells and desperately trying to stay in the picture. It might even be why he tries to attach so much to your kids.

Your GF also might be telling you that your focus on the BF and your ex is consuming you, eating you alive. The situations that are always the hardest for me to sort through are the ones that bear some resemblance to the toughest interpersonal relationships from my childhood. We get in a loop that is eerily familiar and can't see the forest for the trees. Could that be going on in your situation? It's bad -- no question. And the majority of what is going on is probably really going on, and not paranoia. It's also possible that you are being emotionally triggered more than normal. A therapist's job is to figure out what those triggers are about and help you strip the power out of them. While also giving you skills to get inside your kids' heads and start approaching the PA from the perspective of someone who can detach enough to present a much healthier, attractive alternative that they can't turn down.

[scraps66]

Thank you for the perspective. 

Ulysses it sounds as if you and I have a very similar BP to deal with in our lives.  My ex does the same thing with the activities, and also stays very visible at the activities constantly trying to make ties with the parent group. 

All of this has taken a toll the last 10 months, lots of things converging.  Last spring we ended coparent counseling and I don't think it is any coincidence that S11s behavior had taken a turn for the worse in the spring of last school years.  Suspensions, aggression, then lying, distorting reality himself about episodes at school.  Summer's are bad as ex is a teacher and has the kids all day.  S11 just appears to make an effort to not enjoy himself when with me, when I see him at activities he tells me, "I don't have to listen to you," won't say hello, etc.  This all in the last 10 months.

On top of that I have additional stress in dealing with a $45,000 homeowner's claim renovation.  So things have not been normal for awhile.  My routine of healthy diet and exercise went away last February and I just completed a series of tests to determine why I'm having chest pains periodically.

Since ex had chosen not to participate in our WrapAround services counseling, it was not effective.  So I terminated.  After an incident on the bus, ex finally agreed to therapy for S11.  "Agreed" meaning she was interested because she went ahead and set up the therapy without discussion.  Obviously I anticipated this and have been able to put so far avoid her outright controlling the sessions.  We're just starting.

I wonder, even after the numerous exposure to numerous therapists, just what type if good for S11 - and for me.  For S11 should it be someone that is at least aware of BPD as I am seeing the traits of BP arising in his behavior?  I'm a big proponent of consistency and sticking with something to make it effective, but also leary of wasting more time with S11s care as his behavior doesn't improve and middle school is around the corner.

For me, do I need someone that specifically knows BPD and PAS, or just a general type of therapist who can help with life stresses?  Over the years I've spent so many hours in what would turn out to be completely ineffective therapy due to ex's involvement so I'm resistant to even use therapy for myself.  ON some level I feel therapy can keep bad feelings alive rather than address the issues.

As for my GF, it's odd but I have not noticed any jealousy from ex about my GF.  Odd because my GF is a wonderful and healthy mother to three successful older children.  In fact, I think ex has actually tried to "woo" my GF the few times they have been together, just another recruit for ex to convince that there is nothing wrong with her.     

[livednlearned]

I wonder, even after the numerous exposure to numerous therapists, just what type if good for S11 - and for me.  For S11 should it be someone that is at least aware of BPD as I am seeing the traits of BP arising in his behavior?  I'm a big proponent of consistency and sticking with something to make it effective, but also leary of wasting more time with S11s care as his behavior doesn't improve and middle school is around the corner.

For me, do I need someone that specifically knows BPD and PAS, or just a general type of therapist who can help with life stresses?  Over the years I've spent so many hours in what would turn out to be completely ineffective therapy due to ex's involvement so I'm resistant to even use therapy for myself.  ON some level I feel therapy can keep bad feelings alive rather than address the issues.

[/quote]
Yeah, this is hard -- finding the right T. I noticed on Craig Childress' blog that he makes a distinction between raising an obedient child, and raising a cooperative child. My son (sensitive genotype, highly sensitive, sensory processing issues) imploded under the obedient child approach. A therapist who tows the behaviorist approach is not likely to work well with him. Childress also works with kids who are skirting the oppositional defiance disorder diagnosis, which S14 was given at age 9. It seems to be past history now, although we have some new challenges cropping up.

All this to suggest that there seems to be a goodness of fit thing going on with our kids and the therapy we propose for them, and it can take a lot of effort on our part to figure out whether the approach is the right one or not. Childress strikes me as the most expert on the topic of PA, especially in terms of the parent developing a co-therapist role, and focusing on specific recommendations for how to manage the child's PA-influenced behaviors. Maybe a consult with him would help you figure out questions to ask (as a screening tool) for finding the right T? www.drcachildress.org/asp/Site/PrivatePractice/index.asp