Feeling devastated and sick to my stomach

[heartbroken25]

Just saw online baby registry for my dBPDstbx husband and his girlfriend.  She's due in January.  We've been separated for almost 3 years (loosely, no contact for the past 3 months when I told him I never wanted to see or speak to him ever again) and he filed the divorce papers this past July, but as of now, we are still married.  I am so sick to my stomach on so many levels.   Aside from stringing me along, he never told me this news himself.  Didn't even tell me had someone.  Hurt me by finding out on FB.  COWARD!

Been working so hard on me through therapy and many other outlets and was making good progress and then I find out about this.  It's been hard enough trying to get over us not being together (together 25 years; married 13), but how do I get over something like this?  How do I get over that I missed my opportunity to have kids because I was true to my vows supporting him and his illness, and now he's given that opportunity to someone else?  I cannot recoup all those years that I've lost.  I'm angry with myself and him as I had an opportunity to leave before he started DBT therapy, but he committed to therapy (or so I thought), and I said, how can I leave when he's making such a big effort? And this was before we were married! I told him that he was selfish and did me a disservice but not letting me go.  I was so stupid!  He left me anyway.  And when he left me, he said that "I cheated him out of a life".  I cannot get those words out of my head.  Also only a year ago, he stated that the thought of divorce made him sick to his stomach.  Doesn't the thought of still being married and having a kid on the way with someone you've only been with for a year make you sick to your stomach?  Apparently not!     

Why do thoughts go through my head of imagining how happy he is with her and that he's got a kid on the way?  It's all so surreal to me.  I never imagined in a million years that this would happen, but it did and now I'm left to deal with this reality as best as I can.  He's moved on and it feels like I've been kicked back to square one.  Feels like no matter what I do I'm still being punished.  All I want to do is have peace.  Have a period of time where I don't think about this, him, the illness, all of it.  I don't expect a fairytale ending for me.  I just hope that someday this pain in my heart will go away.

Needed to get this off my chest.  Thank you for reading!  

[Lonely_Astro]

Heart, I understand and can empathize with what you're going through.  I wasn't with my pwBPD nearly as long as you had been.  I can only imagine the things you have been through on the rollercoaster that is your life because of his illness.  I have experienced many things with mine (lying, cheating, push/pull, ST, and so on), but nothing on the scale that you have.  I am sorry you have to go through this.

I, like you, had several opportunities to leave J throughout this year.  The most notable one was back in July when she had dated a guy (B) for a month without me knowing.  I was devastated.  I ended the r/s when I found out, only to get back with her a few weeks later.  She said she wanted to start DBT, to be be better for herself, me, and us.  I, like you, agreed to stick with her during that.  I was fully prepared to commit to my role (whatever capacity she needed me to be) so that I could be with who I loved.  In the end, it didn't matter.  By October, she had pushed me out of her life (mostly).  It wasn't until mid November that I was able to have a face to face conversation with her.

J and I had a talk after she had pushed me away and kept me in limbo for almost a 3 months.  I didn't know the status of our relationship because she wouldn't give me a definite answer (and up until the past several days has been making push/pull statements as well).  Well, when she finally agreed to meet me, we talked candidly but when she left we were still in limbo in many ways.  I don't think it was manipulation, I think it was merely she just didn't know what she really wanted.  I truly started the grieving process for her at that moment because I knew it was over (even if she wouldn't say it).  I have to stay LC with her because we work together, so 'true' NC is out of the question.  That has simply prolonged my pain.

We have a company charity event coming up and she was pressuring me very hard to be my partner.  This would, at some time during the evening, put us 1-1 with each other away from co-workers.  I was very skittish of agreeing to it because of that fact.  In the end, I agreed to it because she begged for me to say yes.  It wasn't a power play on my part, I was just torn between having her as my partner and not, you know?  I wanted to and I didn't want to at the same time.  Well, after I said yes, she went ST on me.  After two days of that, she called me (on my office phone) to come to her desk to ask me something.  When I got there, she asked me about a co-worker's ex-wife's name.  I thought it was odd, so I asked why she had asked.  She said it was because her soon to be ex-husband (M) had went on a date with that girl and she was just verifying that was her name.  Needless to say, I was quite perturbed with her not speaking to me for two days and then asking me a question in regards to M and her stalking him.  I also told her that being treated the way I was being treated by her was only prolonging my healing process and I didn't think we should be partners for the charity event.  I told her that I had only agreed to it because I had a moment of poor judgement and that it would do more harm than good.  I also told her that we both knew she had moved on and it was time for me to do the same.

That brings me to today.  She profusely apologized for all that and begged me to keep my plans with her Friday.  I asked her why it meant so much to her that I be her partner, when we were clearly over.  She told me she wanted us to "be together Friday so we could talk".  During that, I took a risk.  I gambled that she had been seeing a co-worker of ours and I rolled that die.  It turns out that she had been on a date (or is dating?  I don't know, that wasn't quite defined) someone, but she is animate that it isn't a co-worker.  She claims I don't even know the guy and that she didn't start seeing him until "we were fully over" and she had done it because I obviously "didn't know what I wanted" (whatever that means, project much?).  Which is complete BS anyway because that was never defined in our last emotional talk.  I specifically and directly asked her if we were over and her reply was "I don't know.  I don't want to be.  We will figure this out together."  Does that sound final to anyone else?  But, that's BPD for you.  Plus, she only came clean about it because she thought I had found out she had had dinner with the new guy and that's why I had been "angry" with her all week (which is why I was given ST for 2 days - totally was in her mind).

Anyway, I'm not really sure what she wants to talk about with me Friday.  I mean, what can be said at this point?  She claims that he knows all about me and our past, all the things she's done to me, and so on.  She didn't say if he knew she was BPD or not (I doubt it, she hates saying she has it).  So this guy either is a) a sucker b) has a rescuer complex or c) she's lying to me and fully wearing a mask for him during the idealization phase.  If she has really told this guy all these things and he's still around (I never really thought about this until this moment, but wouldn't it be something if it's someone she met in group DBT?  Holy crap).  I'm sure she's left some details out or altered some things to him (and to me).  I mean, look at what she's doing to him already (I'm still in the picture, sort of, and she's begging to spend time with me on Friday).  She doesn't even see the issue with that. 

My point in telling you all that is I want you to please try to remember the whirlwind.  It may seem like he's having a great time with his new woman, but ultimately it's fake.  It's also triangulation (him, her, and the baby).  As soon as the baby comes, he'll probably lose control because she will be focusing all her attention on the baby.  Remember, emotionally, he's a toddler and its been my experience that toddlers don't do well with mommy not paying them all the attention.

Going back to mine, she is a 'high functioning chameleon'.  You'd never know what was going on with her unless you were in an intimate relationship with her.  I suspect what little this new guy (a la, my replacement) does know has been carefully crafted to make her look fantastic (and not just on the outside, either).  But you know what?  It's fake.  Every bit of it is fake.  I am more than certain that what you're seeing is a mirage.  Inside, I bet there is all kinds of conflict and turmoil.  I know J better than anyone.  She'll admit that openly to anyone.  You know what we've talked about in the past few weeks since our last emotional discussion (even though it has been limited)?  How empty/alone/depressed/awful she feels.  You know what she hasn't mentioned to me?  A new guy.  Does she talk to him about how empty/alone/depressed/awful she feels?  I doubt it.  If she does, they've been together longer than she's alluded to me (honestly, that wouldn't be a surprise either).  Does that take the sting out of it for me?  No.  It helps me let the wound bleed a little so it can heal though.

Have I been having all sorts of thoughts about how the new guy is getting all the greatness I once had?  Have I asked myself will he get the J that I know she is and I will have missed out on this beautiful creature that is her?  Have I died a little more on the inside because she has so seemingly easily moved on?  Yes.  But, I also know, logically, he's destined to suffer the same fate I did.  His clock has started, just like mine did.  Mine has ran out, his has just started to countdown.  Mine lasted roughly a year (we were both married, started an affair, and really have only been 'available' to each other for a few months - consequently when I was available, she fled and she still isn't done with her now 1+ year divorce from M, though it is happening as I actually saw court documents... .thats an entirely different topic).  He may get a few more or less with her, but he will suffer the same hand I was dealt.  In the end, so will yours' girl.  Except, unlike you, she won't be able to simply walk away from him... .they'll forever be bound with a child.  You can escape hell, she can't.

Keep us posted, please.

[thisworld]

Dear dear dear,

This is so shocking, so unfair, such a big thing that expanded over so many years. But when I read this as a woman, I honestly took a deep breath for you because you won't have to spend the rest of your life with this person. I know you lost a lot of years because of him, but he could give you this and other shocks in later years, too and then you wouldn't be this resilient. This story brings to my mind the story of my mother's friend who got cancer and five months later learnt that her husband impregnated another woman. The woman came from chemo and he was gone! I think, no matter how hurt you are, you actually saved yourself from a much bigger disaster. If you have your health and power as a woman (and you will have so much of both without this man) everything else can be caught up or compensated to a degree. Nothing is fully wasted, fully gone. How old are you? If you want a child, would fostering or adopting be an opportunity for you? Please don't bother with this bloke anymore, he isn't worth your valuable time, he has wasted enough of it. There is a future ahead. And you'll be soo better off without him. 

[Lonely_Astro]

Dear dear dear,

This is so shocking, so unfair, such a big thing that expanded over so many years. But when I read this as a woman, I honestly took a deep breath for you because you won't have to spend the rest of your life with this person. I know you lost a lot of years because of him, but he could give you this and other shocks in later years, too and then you wouldn't be this resilient. This story brings to my mind the story of my mother's friend who got cancer and five months later learnt that her husband impregnated another woman. The woman came from chemo and he was gone! I think, no matter how hurt you are, you actually saved yourself from a much bigger disaster. If you have your health and power as a woman (and you will have so much of both without this man) everything else can be caught up or compensated to a degree. Nothing is fully wasted, fully gone. How old are you? If you want a child, would fostering or adopting be an opportunity for you? Please don't bother with this bloke anymore, he isn't worth your valuable time, he has wasted enough of it. There is a future ahead. And you'll be soo better off without him. 

So true!

[heartbroken25]

Thank you Astro and thisworld!

I forgot to also mention that he lost a good job he had for 11 years (thanks in part to me.  I was the one who suspected BPD and told him about DBT therapy which helped him from losing his job which happened a lot before DBT) this past June.  From what I understand she makes a good living so she's basically supporting him.  She will be transferring her job to England where she is from and where her family lives and will be moving back there with him after the baby is born.  When my friend asked what he was going to do for work when he gets to England, he said he was going to write a book. 

Astro,

your comment about the attention not being on him once the kid was born resonated with me.  Both my brother and sister-in-law who know him so well, said they could just see how disasterous this will all be.  They said, imagine the baby crying and him saying can you shut the kid up I'm trying to work? 

By the way, also forgot to mention that one of the main reasons he gave for him leaving me was that our relationship was never about us it was always about me and my family.  Bull/rubbish! it was always about him and his needs which I so stupidly catered to and forgot about me!  If he really believes this, then wait.  He's moving to a foreign country where he knows no one and will be surrounded by her family.

thisworld,

I am 47 years old.  Too old to have a child of my own.  It would be nice to adopt or foster but I am not mentally in a place where I feel I could give a child the deserved love and attention they need.  At least I have a niece, 17 and a nephew 15.  I have been able to have a significant presence in their lives for which I am grateful.  My niece started living with me in September; she started college in the fall.  It has been great having her and being able to be somewhat of a mom, but more of a guider to her, even though I'm her aunt, has been wonderful.  But I imagine its different when you have a child of your own; from your own flesh and blood.  This I will grieve for a while.

I know you are both right and deep down know I dodged a bullet.  It's the scenario of the heart and head not being aligned.  Not yet al least.

I've always believed in Karma, both the good and the bad.  I just pray for that day when I have a front row seat to witness his life falling apart and no one there to help (it was always me).  I'm not a mean spirited person but at this moment, I have nothing but hate and disdain in my heart for him.  I hope that he will feel all the pain that he inflicted on me 100 times over.  I hope I can be witness to this.  Perhaps the Karma has already started?  I can't imagine that he made a conscious effort to have a kid with this girl.  My therapist seems to think that his deep subconscious wanted this to keep him attached to her.  After all, BPD is an attachment disorder, although he definitely has narcissist traits.

Thank you both for reading and responding with such validating comments. 

Astro,

Continued healing for you.

[Lonely_Astro]

Thank you, heartbroken.

Mine blamed the failure of our r/s on me as well.  She said that it was because I didn't "really know what I wanted" (said today after she told me she had went to dinner with my replacement).  That was after her shutting me (basically) out of her life for the past 3 months.  But, yeah, I'm the one that doesn't know what I want.

DBT didn't seem to do much but make her worse.  I actually think she'll stop going.  It also wouldn't surprise me if she met the new guy in group, to be honest.  She claims to have told him all about me, what she's done to me, and so on.  So if this guy is around, he has to be involved with her mental status somehow (she would never tell anyone about all that unless she really trusted them or they somehow already knew).  She said she wanted to talk with me Friday about it all.  Morbid curiosity is going to win out and I'm going to do it.  I want to see what she has to say.

My honest opinion is that she wants me to lay into her about the past year.  She has always wanted me to 'hate' her, especially now.  She is bent on me validating her actions to herself by me doing that.  I am going to mention to her that she is being unfair to the new guy, depending on who he is.

But, the end result is that she will be out of my life.  There isn't a future for us now.  Ultimately, I did dodge a bullet.  Logically I know that, emotionally I am hurting.  But, time will heal that wound, just as your will heal too.  Just be glad that you've gotten out, even if you don't realize it yet.

[thisworld]

Karma will smack him on the face with a reserved, unimpressed society and in-laws who will raise their eyebrows nicely each time he tries to put up a façade and not ask a single question while he is trying to be his well-rehearsed super positive self. He will hear "Ah!" all the time. He will have to adjust his factory settings ha ha Also, in two years' time, after eating his baked beans and full of gas after "tea", he will have to pull silly faces and entertain el kiddo saying things like how much wood could a wood chuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood, how many cars could a car park park if a car par could park cars. That's the life awaiting him. He'll be bored, engulfed, something. And then guess what will happen.   

You, on the other hand, get to be the cool auntie - a very empowering role model for a young woman. This is not a secondary role to motherhood, as a confidante you'll experience a completely different, liberated part of a young person that her mother is totally unaware of  In return, you will have to take some of her secrets to the grave with you. 

Who is winning ha, who is winning

[heartbroken25]

Astro,

Everything was always either my fault or someone/something else. Or I was the best wife, the greatest friend and confidant.  I believe we as non's were always in a no win situation and constantly being tested.  I have to admit, even though I miss parts of our relationship, I don't miss the exhausting behaviors that I lost myself to.

DBT helped my BPDh in keeping certain feelings in check, however even though he went for 4 years, he didn't do the real work required to really getting better.  He used it as a quick fix.  I was stupid to think that DBT was the answer.  It's only half of the equation.  The person has to learn and utilize it fully and not half assed as my BPDh did.  I wouldn't be surprised if yours dropped out.  My BPDh was in denial that he was misdiagnosed.  He would mention people in the group sessions stating that he was not sick like them.  He was certainly high functioning, but somehow I think its these high functioning individuals who seemed to be the most problematic unless the narcissistic component plays a role.  I'm not an authority on this and will not speculate.  I can only truly speak to my experience.

I laid into him in June.  Got all I wanted to say off my chest; unfortunately this was before I knew what I know now.  I spoke my peace to him and in the end all he could say was that I villanized him.  I corrected him by telling him he was gravely mistaken.  He did that all to himself.  That very last time I spoke with him I told him I didn't want to be his friend (that's what he wanted, for what?) and I no longer wished to see or speak to him ever again.  This didn't sit well with him as I included my family in that.  And off he went stating you see it was always about your family.

I spoke my mind not for any other purpose other than having peace of mind that I said what I wanted to say and would never look back one day and regret not doing it while I had a chance.  Now that I know all of this, I feel like there's so much more to say to him.  For now, I will grieve and continue my therapy and working through this really rough patch.

[heartbroken25]

Thank you thisworld.  I truly feel blessed to have my niece with me.  We have an amazing relationship and hope that I can pass along many positive things on to her.

I take it that you believe in Karma too.  I want him to suffer so badly!  I always felt bad for him and his circumstances, but not anymore.  Where did that leave me?  Devastated and brokenhearted.  Through this entire journey with the last three years being the hardest, I was never really angry.  My therapist always questioned me, where is your anger?  Well, its finally here!  Of course I'm still sad and grieving loss of my youth, childbearing year, effort, loyalty, support, love, tolerance... etc, but I think the anger is healthy to some degree and is necessary.  Part of the anger however is at myself.  My entire relationship/marriage to him was a complete an utter sham and I allowed myself to be duped.  I think that part of the healing process is to embrace the role we played and recognize why we are the way we are.  Certainly easier said than done.

[CollateralDamage]

Heart, I understand and can empathize with what you're going through.  I wasn't with my pwBPD nearly as long as you had been.  I can only imagine the things you have been through on the rollercoaster that is your life because of his illness.  I have experienced many things with mine (lying, cheating, push/pull, ST, and so on), but nothing on the scale that you have.  I am sorry you have to go through this.

I, like you, had several opportunities to leave J throughout this year.  The most notable one was back in July when she had dated a guy (B) for a month without me knowing.  I was devastated.  I ended the r/s when I found out, only to get back with her a few weeks later.  She said she wanted to start DBT, to be be better for herself, me, and us.  I, like you, agreed to stick with her during that.  I was fully prepared to commit to my role (whatever capacity she needed me to be) so that I could be with who I loved.  In the end, it didn't matter.  By October, she had pushed me out of her life (mostly).  It wasn't until mid November that I was able to have a face to face conversation with her.

J and I had a talk after she had pushed me away and kept me in limbo for almost a 3 months.  I didn't know the status of our relationship because she wouldn't give me a definite answer (and up until the past several days has been making push/pull statements as well).  Well, when she finally agreed to meet me, we talked candidly but when she left we were still in limbo in many ways.  I don't think it was manipulation, I think it was merely she just didn't know what she really wanted.  I truly started the grieving process for her at that moment because I knew it was over (even if she wouldn't say it).  I have to stay LC with her because we work together, so 'true' NC is out of the question.  That has simply prolonged my pain.

We have a company charity event coming up and she was pressuring me very hard to be my partner.  This would, at some time during the evening, put us 1-1 with each other away from co-workers.  I was very skittish of agreeing to it because of that fact.  In the end, I agreed to it because she begged for me to say yes.  It wasn't a power play on my part, I was just torn between having her as my partner and not, you know?  I wanted to and I didn't want to at the same time.  Well, after I said yes, she went ST on me.  After two days of that, she called me (on my office phone) to come to her desk to ask me something.  When I got there, she asked me about a co-worker's ex-wife's name.  I thought it was odd, so I asked why she had asked.  She said it was because her soon to be ex-husband (M) had went on a date with that girl and she was just verifying that was her name.  Needless to say, I was quite perturbed with her not speaking to me for two days and then asking me a question in regards to M and her stalking him.  I also told her that being treated the way I was being treated by her was only prolonging my healing process and I didn't think we should be partners for the charity event.  I told her that I had only agreed to it because I had a moment of poor judgement and that it would do more harm than good.  I also told her that we both knew she had moved on and it was time for me to do the same.

That brings me to today.  She profusely apologized for all that and begged me to keep my plans with her Friday.  I asked her why it meant so much to her that I be her partner, when we were clearly over.  She told me she wanted us to "be together Friday so we could talk".  During that, I took a risk.  I gambled that she had been seeing a co-worker of ours and I rolled that die.  It turns out that she had been on a date (or is dating?  I don't know, that wasn't quite defined) someone, but she is animate that it isn't a co-worker.  She claims I don't even know the guy and that she didn't start seeing him until "we were fully over" and she had done it because I obviously "didn't know what I wanted" (whatever that means, project much?).  Which is complete BS anyway because that was never defined in our last emotional talk.  I specifically and directly asked her if we were over and her reply was "I don't know.  I don't want to be.  We will figure this out together."  Does that sound final to anyone else?  But, that's BPD for you.  Plus, she only came clean about it because she thought I had found out she had had dinner with the new guy and that's why I had been "angry" with her all week (which is why I was given ST for 2 days - totally was in her mind).

Anyway, I'm not really sure what she wants to talk about with me Friday.  I mean, what can be said at this point?  She claims that he knows all about me and our past, all the things she's done to me, and so on.  She didn't say if he knew she was BPD or not (I doubt it, she hates saying she has it).  So this guy either is a) a sucker b) has a rescuer complex or c) she's lying to me and fully wearing a mask for him during the idealization phase.  If she has really told this guy all these things and he's still around (I never really thought about this until this moment, but wouldn't it be something if it's someone she met in group DBT?  Holy crap).  I'm sure she's left some details out or altered some things to him (and to me).  I mean, look at what she's doing to him already (I'm still in the picture, sort of, and she's begging to spend time with me on Friday).  She doesn't even see the issue with that. 

My point in telling you all that is I want you to please try to remember the whirlwind.  It may seem like he's having a great time with his new woman, but ultimately it's fake.  It's also triangulation (him, her, and the baby).  As soon as the baby comes, he'll probably lose control because she will be focusing all her attention on the baby.  Remember, emotionally, he's a toddler and its been my experience that toddlers don't do well with mommy not paying them all the attention.

Going back to mine, she is a 'high functioning chameleon'.  You'd never know what was going on with her unless you were in an intimate relationship with her.  I suspect what little this new guy (a la, my replacement) does know has been carefully crafted to make her look fantastic (and not just on the outside, either).  But you know what?  It's fake.  Every bit of it is fake.  I am more than certain that what you're seeing is a mirage.  Inside, I bet there is all kinds of conflict and turmoil.  I know J better than anyone.  She'll admit that openly to anyone.  You know what we've talked about in the past few weeks since our last emotional discussion (even though it has been limited)?  How empty/alone/depressed/awful she feels.  You know what she hasn't mentioned to me?  A new guy.  Does she talk to him about how empty/alone/depressed/awful she feels?  I doubt it.  If she does, they've been together longer than she's alluded to me (honestly, that wouldn't be a surprise either).  Does that take the sting out of it for me?  No.  It helps me let the wound bleed a little so it can heal though.

Have I been having all sorts of thoughts about how the new guy is getting all the greatness I once had?  Have I asked myself will he get the J that I know she is and I will have missed out on this beautiful creature that is her?  Have I died a little more on the inside because she has so seemingly easily moved on?  Yes.  But, I also know, logically, he's destined to suffer the same fate I did.  His clock has started, just like mine did.  Mine has ran out, his has just started to countdown.  Mine lasted roughly a year (we were both married, started an affair, and really have only been 'available' to each other for a few months - consequently when I was available, she fled and she still isn't done with her now 1+ year divorce from M, though it is happening as I actually saw court documents... .thats an entirely different topic).  He may get a few more or less with her, but he will suffer the same hand I was dealt.  In the end, so will yours' girl.  Except, unlike you, she won't be able to simply walk away from him... .they'll forever be bound with a child.  You can escape hell, she can't.

Keep us posted, please.

Lonely_Astro

Are you sure we are not seeing the same person?  Mine was actively (unknown to me) seeing another person while trying to string me along back into recycle.  I found out by accident and even then, with me showing her that she is, she denied it. Mine, like yours, is in a 1+  year divorce, told me that they are officially divorced but the judge said "she didn't need a divorce certificate". Only recently did she tell me that "she couldn't help that she is not divorced yet". Oh, and the lucky guy is a 20+ year felon who committed murder.  Great eh?

I have attempted to try to pin her down on if she feels that we are over completely or if there is still hope.  She refuses to answer me and goes silent.  She will not commit to an answer.  I just need to know from her and pin it on her answer so there can be no miscommunication involved in me truly moving on or still try at something again.  This is so toxic I know, but I am holding the course and will drive to get my answer so I can finally be free of this circus (or move ahead in trying to rebuild myself). 

[Lonely_Astro]

Astro,

Everything was always either my fault or someone/something else. Or I was the best wife, the greatest friend and confidant.  I believe we as non's were always in a no win situation and constantly being tested.  I have to admit, even though I miss parts of our relationship, I don't miss the exhausting behaviors that I lost myself to.

DBT helped my BPDh in keeping certain feelings in check, however even though he went for 4 years, he didn't do the real work required to really getting better.  He used it as a quick fix.  I was stupid to think that DBT was the answer.  It's only half of the equation.  The person has to learn and utilize it fully and not half assed as my BPDh did.  I wouldn't be surprised if yours dropped out.  My BPDh was in denial that he was misdiagnosed.  He would mention people in the group sessions stating that he was not sick like them.  He was certainly high functioning, but somehow I think its these high functioning individuals who seemed to be the most problematic unless the narcissistic component plays a role.  I'm not an authority on this and will not speculate.  I can only truly speak to my experience.

I laid into him in June.  Got all I wanted to say off my chest; unfortunately this was before I knew what I know now.  I spoke my peace to him and in the end all he could say was that I villanized him.  I corrected him by telling him he was gravely mistaken.  He did that all to himself.  That very last time I spoke with him I told him I didn't want to be his friend (that's what he wanted, for what?) and I no longer wished to see or speak to him ever again.  This didn't sit well with him as I included my family in that.  And off he went stating you see it was always about your family.

I spoke my mind not for any other purpose other than having peace of mind that I said what I wanted to say and would never look back one day and regret not doing it while I had a chance.  Now that I know all of this, I feel like there's so much more to say to him.  For now, I will grieve and continue my therapy and working through this really rough patch.

Yours had 4 years of DBT?  Wow.  Mine just started in September (so, 3 months).  I didn't expect it to change her immediately, but I wasn't prepared for it to make her 'worse' to the level she got.  But, I have also read that DBT hasn't proven to do much for higher functioning (aka chameleon) BPs.  That is fully where mine is. 

But, she has moved on to a new guy and I am sure I will hear all about him (in great detail) Friday.  I'm interested in how they met, because I fully suspect that they met at therapy.  It's just a gut feeling.  Mainly because she told me that she hasn't lied to him about me, she has told him all the bad stuff she's done to me, and how she's treated me.  She didn't mention if she told him she was BPD or not.  Why I have my feeling they met at therapy is because there is no other way she would ever tell another living person about how our r/s (we were a couple 4 years ago, was NC for 3 years, started talking again - she seemed more grounded and managed -, and had a r/s for a year) has transpired.  Plus, if she has been that openly honest with him and he's still around, what's he up to?  Don't get me wrong, I haven't been a saint in the midst of all this.  We started up when my marriage was on the rocks (and so was hers).  It's a fact I'm not proud of, but it happened.

Anyway, the best thing to have happened to the both of us is they are leaving our lives.  We may not be able to fully see that yet, but it is true.  You have the fortune that he is moving far away and you don't have to see him everyday.  I don't get that luxury.  I am going to have to witness this new r/s of hers go forward.  When we fell apart 4 years ago, she jumped into a new r/s (of course).  She ended up marrying that guy.  If she is already this trusting with the new guy (and he's still around), I give it 6 months or less she's engaged.  All the while, she'll blame me for not being with me (like she did about going to dinner with him).  They simply cannot take true responsibility for their actions.  They may say they take it, but they really don't.  I was quick to point out to her that her facts were misaligned.  I told her that she needed to take responsibility for starting a new r/s while not fully closing ours off and that I would not be complacent in letting her believe that it was my 'fault'.  I also told her that she was an adult and knew the difference between right and wrong.

In the end, I know she's only being so bold about all this because she is attached to the new guy.  She fails to realize that she is using him already and doesn't see it.  So much for her DBT lessons, it seems.  I plan to ask her if her T knows about all this or if she's even still going.  I just can't see a T supporting this kind of behavior.

[Lonely_Astro]

Are you sure we are not seeing the same person?  Mine was actively (unknown to me) seeing another person while trying to string me along back into recycle.  I found out by accident and even then, with me showing her that she is, she denied it. Mine, like yours, is in a 1+  year divorce, told me that they are officially divorced but the judge said "she didn't need a divorce certificate". Only recently did she tell me that "she couldn't help that she is not divorced yet". Oh, and the lucky guy is a 20+ year felon who committed murder.  Great eh?

I have attempted to try to pin her down on if she feels that we are over completely or if there is still hope.  She refuses to answer me and goes silent.  She will not commit to an answer.  I just need to know from her and pin it on her answer so there can be no miscommunication involved in me truly moving on or still try at something again.  This is so toxic I know, but I am holding the course and will drive to get my answer so I can finally be free of this circus (or move ahead in trying to rebuild myself). 

We were seeing the same person, a BPD.

Joking aside, mine had been telling everyone that her divorce from M was final "any day now".  When we started up, I knew there weren't any papers, that she was just separated.  But, she kept telling me that papers were coming.  Then that transitioned to the "any day now its final" thing.  I was separating myself when we started up.  I feel the only reason we started back up was because I was emotionally vulnerable and was looking for someone.  I'm not proud of how we started back up, but that's how it happened.

Anyway, back to the story: when I separated, my estranged and I agreed to give it several months to let things cool down before we started any proceedings.  It wasn't because of reconciliation, it was to let the heat of the moment pass, get things in order, etc.  I never had any major issues with my estranged, we got along well enough.  I was fully open with J about what was going on in my life at all times.  She didn't have any kids or assets, so her divorce should've been extremely quick.  Well, one day after she had been on a rant with me about how I wasn't fully available to her (and when I did become "fully available" to her, she left me btw), I decided to contact the court and read over her divorce papers.  Guess what?  There weren't any.  I confronted her and she feigned surprise and told me there had to be a mistake.  She went on and on about how her parents had paid $6k to a lawyer for her to handle the proceedings and how M's mom must've been screwing someone at the courthouse to misplace the paperwork.  I knew it was total crap, because I know the legal system just doesn't work like that (I have several friends that are bar certified attorneys).  All that was around June.

Things progressed on both ends of the r/s and I didn't really push anything with my estranged because frankly I wasn't in a hurry.  I was dealing with J full time it seemed (one fire after another) and I just kicked the can down the road on the other end.  Come October, I just happened to be around when a process server called her to serve her with divorce papers.  So, it finally had happened.  She then was telling everyone that her divorce was set to be final at the first part of December (she even put it on her work calendar... .I kid you not).  Well, a couple of days after that, I checked with the court.  Funny thing is, that day was the date that his attorney had set to move for a default judgment because she hadn't responded to the complaint.  Yeah, there never was an attorney on file for her and she never even responded.  Keep in mind, she has been telling me this entire time that she had an attorney going over papers, etc etc.  She had retained an attorney that day and the two attorneys agreed to postpone the default judgement.  Supposedly her divorce is supposed to be final by the end of December.  I highly doubt it will because (even with no kids/assets) our state requires a mandatory "reconciliation" period.  It can be waived, but its highly irregular for a judge to do so even if both parties agree and have been living apart for sometime.  But, it's still possible.

Where I was going with all that is that it seems most BPDs can neither ever tell the truth nor can they ever admit something is finally over.  She's doing that to M, she's done that to me, and she's doing it to the new guy (even if he doesnt realize it).  That's not to mention the others I don't know about (even though she is animate that she hasn't done anything "wrong" since she dated B in July without my knowledge). 

So, I feel bad for myself because I see how badly she's treated me yet I still love her.  The J I know she is and wants to be, anyway.  It's extremely hard to see her everyday and not crave for her affection (though she wants to be friends, I know we can't be.  It wouldn't be healthy for either of us).  I liken our r/s as a heroin addiction mixed with nitroglycerin.  I know it's bad for me and is going to hurt me, but I want it just the same.  I'm not sure why I am so enamored with her.  Maybe it's my rescuer complex or her physical looks.  I know she's mentally ill and I have pity for her.  I don't know.  The reality is she isn't worth my time or affection, she could be, but in her current state she isn't.

Healing and moving on is hard to do.

[CollateralDamage]

We were seeing the same person, a BPD.

Joking aside, mine had been telling everyone that her divorce from M was final "any day now".  When we started up, I knew there weren't any papers, that she was just separated.  But, she kept telling me that papers were coming.  Then that transitioned to the "any day now its final" thing.  I was separating myself when we started up.  I feel the only reason we started back up was because I was emotionally vulnerable and was looking for someone.  I'm not proud of how we started back up, but that's how it happened.

Anyway, back to the story: when I separated, my estranged and I agreed to give it several months to let things cool down before we started any proceedings.  It wasn't because of reconciliation, it was to let the heat of the moment pass, get things in order, etc.  I never had any major issues with my estranged, we got along well enough.  I was fully open with J about what was going on in my life at all times.  She didn't have any kids or assets, so her divorce should've been extremely quick.  Well, one day after she had been on a rant with me about how I wasn't fully available to her (and when I did become "fully available" to her, she left me btw), I decided to contact the court and read over her divorce papers.  Guess what?  There weren't any.  I confronted her and she feigned surprise and told me there had to be a mistake.  She went on and on about how her parents had paid $6k to a lawyer for her to handle the proceedings and how M's mom must've been screwing someone at the courthouse to misplace the paperwork.  I knew it was total crap, because I know the legal system just doesn't work like that (I have several friends that are bar certified attorneys).  All that was around June.

Things progressed on both ends of the r/s and I didn't really push anything with my estranged because frankly I wasn't in a hurry.  I was dealing with J full time it seemed (one fire after another) and I just kicked the can down the road on the other end.  Come October, I just happened to be around when a process server called her to serve her with divorce papers.  So, it finally had happened.  She then was telling everyone that her divorce was set to be final at the first part of December (she even put it on her work calendar... .I kid you not).  Well, a couple of days after that, I checked with the court.  Funny thing is, that day was the date that his attorney had set to move for a default judgment because she hadn't responded to the complaint.  Yeah, there never was an attorney on file for her and she never even responded.  Keep in mind, she has been telling me this entire time that she had an attorney going over papers, etc etc.  She had retained an attorney that day and the two attorneys agreed to postpone the default judgement.  Supposedly her divorce is supposed to be final by the end of December.  I highly doubt it will because (even with no kids/assets) our state requires a mandatory "reconciliation" period.  It can be waived, but its highly irregular for a judge to do so even if both parties agree and have been living apart for sometime.  But, it's still possible.

Where I was going with all that is that it seems most BPDs can neither ever tell the truth nor can they ever admit something is finally over.  She's doing that to M, she's done that to me, and she's doing it to the new guy (even if he doesnt realize it).  That's not to mention the others I don't know about (even though she is animate that she hasn't done anything "wrong" since she dated B in July without my knowledge). 

So, I feel bad for myself because I see how badly she's treated me yet I still love her.  The J I know she is and wants to be, anyway.  It's extremely hard to see her everyday and not crave for her affection (though she wants to be friends, I know we can't be.  It wouldn't be healthy for either of us).  I liken our r/s as a heroin addiction mixed with nitroglycerin.  I know it's bad for me and is going to hurt me, but I want it just the same.  I'm not sure why I am so enamored with her.  Maybe it's my rescuer complex or her physical looks.  I know she's mentally ill and I have pity for her.  I don't know.  The reality is she isn't worth my time or affection, she could be, but in her current state she isn't.

Healing and moving on is hard to do.

To share mine (sorry for the hijacking)... .

Mine told me last year that she was starting the divorce. I kept watching the online court system to see if she was really telling the truth.  Finally, one day the husband served her with papers. He also decided to retain the attorney using one of her credit cards.  I had warned her to shut them off, she told me she did over and over, but alas, she really did not.She felt sorry for him since he was so abusive and hated him (eyes roll).  So I was just happy she started something I guess and looked at it as a sign of forward progress.  About a month later, she receives a hand written not from her husband and she wanted to let me read it.  It was a letter that told her what conditions she would need to meet in order for him to take her back. I said no man writes this type of letter, unless she provided him hope. She swore up and down she hated him blah blah blah.  This was Oct of 2014.

She got an apartment at that time and moved out, which changed the dynamic of our "affair" since I was going through the process as well.  She always wanted me to be there, but I could not get her to understand that I still had to get my affairs in order and could not abandon my kids. In other words, I was there for her the way she wanted me to be while she was still living with husband, but all bets are off once she is out. No reasoning whatsoever with her.

So we continued to be together until I accidentally found Facebook messages with one of her male friends.  You know the type of message it was, but it was not good.  She lied and tried to cover it up, but I eventually had enough of her ways and went NC. That last up till June of this year.  She recycled me (words only, no real action) to simply talk about her getting a house.  I fell for it and immediately I started to talk about coming to see it.  She was adamant that I could not, hell she would not tell me where it was or anything. After a week of false promises and no action to prove she wanted to be together, I ended it again.  She RAGED hard for a week by cell, email and phone telling me that I was the one at fault. It was my fault she could not trust me, and I scare her because I was the ONLY thing she couldn't control in her life.

Flash to this past month, where she started again with all the passive aggressive fb posts, texting, etc. This time is when I caught her already seeing someone else and trying to get me back again.  I really tried to reason and tell her to just be honest about him, which she could not do.  She will chat with me on text and tell me how she misses me, loves me and wants to be with me only, then goes cold when I respond. Once again, I have point blank asked her where we stand... .are we over or is she willing to try honestly again.  No answer.  None.  Ever.  I don't know what the deal is, but she will just skip over that and move on to a different topic. I HAVE to get her answer to know deep down that I can move on honestly. Yes, she has done a lot where most would move on and forget it, but I can't unless I have it from her in black and white.  If I don't she will always use that "wiggle room" to blame me or come back with guilt put on me. I should just move on but I can't.  The image she made was too engrained deep in my core, and I just need validation now to move on.

Cheers to health and happiness somewhere.

[Lonely_Astro]

We were seeing the same person, a BPD.

Joking aside, mine had been telling everyone that her divorce from M was final "any day now".  When we started up, I knew there weren't any papers, that she was just separated.  But, she kept telling me that papers were coming.  Then that transitioned to the "any day now its final" thing.  I was separating myself when we started up.  I feel the only reason we started back up was because I was emotionally vulnerable and was looking for someone.  I'm not proud of how we started back up, but that's how it happened.

Anyway, back to the story: when I separated, my estranged and I agreed to give it several months to let things cool down before we started any proceedings.  It wasn't because of reconciliation, it was to let the heat of the moment pass, get things in order, etc.  I never had any major issues with my estranged, we got along well enough.  I was fully open with J about what was going on in my life at all times.  She didn't have any kids or assets, so her divorce should've been extremely quick.  Well, one day after she had been on a rant with me about how I wasn't fully available to her (and when I did become "fully available" to her, she left me btw), I decided to contact the court and read over her divorce papers.  Guess what?  There weren't any.  I confronted her and she feigned surprise and told me there had to be a mistake.  She went on and on about how her parents had paid $6k to a lawyer for her to handle the proceedings and how M's mom must've been screwing someone at the courthouse to misplace the paperwork.  I knew it was total crap, because I know the legal system just doesn't work like that (I have several friends that are bar certified attorneys).  All that was around June.

Things progressed on both ends of the r/s and I didn't really push anything with my estranged because frankly I wasn't in a hurry.  I was dealing with J full time it seemed (one fire after another) and I just kicked the can down the road on the other end.  Come October, I just happened to be around when a process server called her to serve her with divorce papers.  So, it finally had happened.  She then was telling everyone that her divorce was set to be final at the first part of December (she even put it on her work calendar... .I kid you not).  Well, a couple of days after that, I checked with the court.  Funny thing is, that day was the date that his attorney had set to move for a default judgment because she hadn't responded to the complaint.  Yeah, there never was an attorney on file for her and she never even responded.  Keep in mind, she has been telling me this entire time that she had an attorney going over papers, etc etc.  She had retained an attorney that day and the two attorneys agreed to postpone the default judgement.  Supposedly her divorce is supposed to be final by the end of December.  I highly doubt it will because (even with no kids/assets) our state requires a mandatory "reconciliation" period.  It can be waived, but its highly irregular for a judge to do so even if both parties agree and have been living apart for sometime.  But, it's still possible.

Where I was going with all that is that it seems most BPDs can neither ever tell the truth nor can they ever admit something is finally over.  She's doing that to M, she's done that to me, and she's doing it to the new guy (even if he doesnt realize it).  That's not to mention the others I don't know about (even though she is animate that she hasn't done anything "wrong" since she dated B in July without my knowledge). 

So, I feel bad for myself because I see how badly she's treated me yet I still love her.  The J I know she is and wants to be, anyway.  It's extremely hard to see her everyday and not crave for her affection (though she wants to be friends, I know we can't be.  It wouldn't be healthy for either of us).  I liken our r/s as a heroin addiction mixed with nitroglycerin.  I know it's bad for me and is going to hurt me, but I want it just the same.  I'm not sure why I am so enamored with her.  Maybe it's my rescuer complex or her physical looks.  I know she's mentally ill and I have pity for her.  I don't know.  The reality is she isn't worth my time or affection, she could be, but in her current state she isn't.

Healing and moving on is hard to do.

To share mine (sorry for the hijacking)... .

Mine told me last year that she was starting the divorce. I kept watching the online court system to see if she was really telling the truth.  Finally, one day the husband served her with papers. He also decided to retain the attorney using one of her credit cards.  I had warned her to shut them off, she told me she did over and over, but alas, she really did not.She felt sorry for him since he was so abusive and hated him (eyes roll).  So I was just happy she started something I guess and looked at it as a sign of forward progress.  About a month later, she receives a hand written not from her husband and she wanted to let me read it.  It was a letter that told her what conditions she would need to meet in order for him to take her back. I said no man writes this type of letter, unless she provided him hope. She swore up and down she hated him blah blah blah.  This was Oct of 2014.

She got an apartment at that time and moved out, which changed the dynamic of our "affair" since I was going through the process as well.  She always wanted me to be there, but I could not get her to understand that I still had to get my affairs in order and could not abandon my kids. In other words, I was there for her the way she wanted me to be while she was still living with husband, but all bets are off once she is out. No reasoning whatsoever with her.

So we continued to be together until I accidentally found Facebook messages with one of her male friends.  You know the type of message it was, but it was not good.  She lied and tried to cover it up, but I eventually had enough of her ways and went NC. That last up till June of this year.  She recycled me (words only, no real action) to simply talk about her getting a house.  I fell for it and immediately I started to talk about coming to see it.  She was adamant that I could not, hell she would not tell me where it was or anything. After a week of false promises and no action to prove she wanted to be together, I ended it again.  She RAGED hard for a week by cell, email and phone telling me that I was the one at fault. It was my fault she could not trust me, and I scare her because I was the ONLY thing she couldn't control in her life.

Flash to this past month, where she started again with all the passive aggressive fb posts, texting, etc. This time is when I caught her already seeing someone else and trying to get me back again.  I really tried to reason and tell her to just be honest about him, which she could not do.  She will chat with me on text and tell me how she misses me, loves me and wants to be with me only, then goes cold when I respond. Once again, I have point blank asked her where we stand... .are we over or is she willing to try honestly again.  No answer.  None.  Ever.  I don't know what the deal is, but she will just skip over that and move on to a different topic. I HAVE to get her answer to know deep down that I can move on honestly. Yes, she has done a lot where most would move on and forget it, but I can't unless I have it from her in black and white.  If I don't she will always use that "wiggle room" to blame me or come back with guilt put on me. I should just move on but I can't.  The image she made was too engrained deep in my core, and I just need validation now to move on.

Cheers to health and happiness somewhere.

Don't feel bad for not getting a direct answer. Mine, like yours, isn't capable of doing that either. When I got to work this morning, after not having talked to her since yesterday afternoon, she immediately came to my office and told me that she was going to text me last night but chose not to because of how mad she was at me. I didn't understand and she told me she was upset because I had accused her of dating a co-worker and how she was mad because she couldn't believe I would believe the rumor (which, subsequently, someone else had asked her about earlier in the day as well).

Anyway, she proceeded to tell me about the new guy and how she thought I had found out about their dinner this past Saturday. She claims it wasn't a date, but a vent session. She claims she has known this guy "for years" and he's going through the same things she is and it was "just dinner". Ultimately, I know that's a lie, but ok.  She kept on about how it was just dinner and they haven't done anything else ("I know how your mind works and I wouldn't do that to you" - direct statement).

I'll be spending most of the day tomorrow 1-1 with her. It should get interesting.

[CollateralDamage]

I'll be spending most of the day tomorrow 1-1 with her. It should get interesting.

In my case, I believe with the affair dynamic on top of the BPD dynamic  makes it 1000% worse. I feel your pain and we share the same kind of rollercoaster ride.  I know the despair inducing feeling when they meet "old friends" but never seemed to have heard about them until recently. Hang in there!  I know you will hear many things that will drive a knife into your heart, or back, or both.  Try to float during those times above yourself and look down upon you and her in 3rd person.  It can take the sting out of the situation.

Please share you experience after that, if you want.

[hollycat]

To get this thread back to the original poster,

please listen to thisworld. She is so wise! I have a few things to add. My husband is the pwBpd and we have been separated since June.  I have children, now grown, but not with him.  I am 53, not so much older than you.

I love my sons very much.  I advise you to stop grieving your own childlessness and enjoy your niece and nephew.  Children can be great heartbreak. They do grow up and if raised in a healthy way, they should leave you.  Get a gorgeous puppy and enjoy all that unconditional love and companionship for the rest of the dog's life.  I have two Pomeranians, a mother/daughter duo, who are my children now.

I worry about your wishing karma to strike down your ex. Please focus on positive things.  Turning karma into a weapon could ultimately serve to hurt you rather than heal you.

As to having a few more things to say to him, well, no one knows that feeling better than me.  But at some point, it is time to say, enough is enough.  What's the point? Is there a magical phrase that will turn this situation around? No. And anything now you have to say falls on deaf ears anyway, right?

You are the most fortunate one in this scenario.  You get to leave the free life.  He is tied down and the new mother to be, well, her life is shaping up to be hell and she doesn't even know it yet. 

One side of the coin is Loneliness.  The other side of that same coin is Freedom.

Go buy the dog you have always wanted and lavish love on that soul.  You will receive far greater returns.

[heartbroken25]

Thanks holycat.

I appreciate your honesty and advice, however, doing what you say is easier said than done.  This has been my only romantic relationship in my entire life.  I met him when I was 19 years old.  Been with him until our separation 3 years ago... that's 25 years of my life!  I have been in therapy and had been making great progress until this news.  Trying to move on and accept that the 25 years I spent with him was all a sham is hard enough, so finding out about something like this is no easy pill to swallow. It's been one blow after the other.

I do appreciate and enjoy the time I have with my niece and nephew.  I already have a wonderful rescue dog who is a handful but also my love.  I am grateful for many things in my life.  Unfortunately we all heal differently.  Mine is taking longer than I expected but then again I have to be kind to myself.  Isn't that part of what kept us in these situations?  Forgetting about ourselves and putting the needs of our BPD's first above everything else? 

My mind knows deep inside that I dodged a bullet, unfortunately my heart in not aligned with my mind yet.  I've been working and will continue to do what I can to get there.  It's a process and not an event.

[Lonely_Astro]

Thanks holycat.

I appreciate your honesty and advice, however, doing what you say is easier said than done.  This has been my only romantic relationship in my entire life.  I met him when I was 19 years old.  Been with him until our separation 3 years ago... that's 25 years of my life!  I have been in therapy and had been making great progress until this news.  Trying to move on and accept that the 25 years I spent with him was all a sham is hard enough, so finding out about something like this is no easy pill to swallow. It's been one blow after the other.

I do appreciate and enjoy the time I have with my niece and nephew.  I already have a wonderful rescue dog who is a handful but also my love.  I am grateful for many things in my life.  Unfortunately we all heal differently.  Mine is taking longer than I expected but then again I have to be kind to myself.  Isn't that part of what kept us in these situations?  Forgetting about ourselves and putting the needs of our BPD's first above everything else? 

My mind knows deep inside that I dodged a bullet, unfortunately my heart in not aligned with my mind yet.  I've been working and will continue to do what I can to get there.  It's a process and not an event.

So true!  But, one day you're going to wake up and make some tea and suddenly you are going to realize that he wasn't worth it.  All the bad stuff will dissipate and you'll see just how wild, twisted, and taxing it all was.  Then you will fill calm.  You may be asking how do I know that.  Well, when J and I split 4 years ago I was devastated.  I felt a lot of emotions about her during the fallout.  Then one sudden day, I felt release.  I forgave her and I felt happiness rush over me.  You're right, its a process and not an event but it will happen as fast as an event in time.

This time, for me, has been just as heartbreaking as the last.  I feel like I am moving on faster, but not necessarily easier.  I had always in the back of my mind knew it would end like this for us.  I had hoped it wouldn't.  As of today, she is being bold and confessing a lot of things.  It's a death by a thousand cuts, but each of those wounds will heal.  It also helps me realize just how unstable she really is and hopefully she'll attach to the new guy soon enough so I can fully get away from her (which is the only reason she's being so bold, she has a new guy and doesn't need me as a backup anymore). 

C'est la vie.

[hollycat]

It is absolutely a process. I personally am dipping my toes into a recycle; allowing BpdH to come home for Christmas and spend a few weeks with me.  The invitation from me to do so came after 6 days of NC initiated by me. So yes, I can certainly generate my own push/pull.

You may be being a bit hard on yourself to consider your years together a sham. One thing I do believe about pwBpd is they can feel some version of love. So when BpdH tells me,"love you,"  I believe he means it. When he called me a despicable lying thief (earlier this summer), I believe he meant that too.  I tell him, "I love you."  I have also (but not to his face) called him an ass.  So, in some ways, pwBpd are not so different from a non.

I am not a therapist. Just a wife with my own story.  

[thisworld]

Dear Heartbroken25,

I think these life events are very difficult and critical times where we feel the weight of both personal loss and the realization of our social disadvantage as women. When I married my then husband (who did not have BPD but other problems - still nowhere near this) I was a bright, 25 year old, completely independent strong woman. And he needed more support in his life than I did really. 12 years later, when we divorced, I had been a wreck for a while whereas he had thrived in every possible way - other than emotional maturity. Basically, I helped raise a man a second time. I had career losses, emotional troubles and still thought mine was a good enough life because he was there. I know realize that he,on the other hand, got more and more cruel and bitter toward the world as he thrived. I never wanted a child myself but when we divorced (and the biological clock a bit past the 35 mark) I felt that he also deprived me of a child. Maybe in another marriage, I could really choose to have a child, I don't know. But I choose to stay with him, and actually I think it would be very difficult to raise a child with him. I can't imagine it with a BPD partner. But I also think that women give birth if they really want to. Nothing stops them. Whatever stopped you, and there must be a choice somewhere, also contributed something to you. Our job now, while trying to salvage ourselves is to find these strengths.

I really think I'm at a social disadvantage to him when it comes to personal relationships because of gender equality. This makes me so angry. He, whatever his emotional problems, can date people 10 years younger than him, he has so many options. He can choose to become a father whenever he wants, he can settle again, and start from scratch like I never happened. I, on the other hand, have lost some social value -I don't live in the US so maybe it's different there. But I know that many men my age who would like to settle and have a child wouldn't be with me. For younger men, I'm at best be a fantasy object. My peers also tend to choose younger women than me. Half of the men that are available to me are emotionally unavailable bachelors and a portion of the other half are dull. Realistically, my chances to build a second marriage with someone I find attractive are slim when compared to him. There is a social inequality in it, and I'm so angry. It is unfair but it is there. I don't like it but I'll have to accept it.

However, this is valid if only I still imprison myself in the married framework. Single life offers so many things to a woman, and in time we get to discover a new, single identity that has so many positives in it. Especially with our relationship history with difficult spouses, we also discover that the emotional whatever they offered to us was not that much anyway. Good single female friends offer so much validation and help us change the way we look at ourselves. With these men, we tend to perceive ourselves as finished, old old old. With people who value us we feel good, sexy, attractive. That's the feeling we need. And if we support and surround ourselves with people who are good for us, soon things don't seem that bad. We go on holidays together, have great time as a group and soon embrace our new identity and don't want to trade it for a marriage that doesn't satisfy us emotionally. Soon, we even start feeling that we actually look much better than many married peers of our age, exude a more carefree air (maybe it's a shame but married men start looking at us in restaurants etc:)) It's never about how we look either, it's that carefree air of being single and being happy about it.  

All these may seem unrealistic right now. We always want to go back to the comfort of what we know, it's only normal. And we all go through grief and yes, it's a process. I just wanted to write this because there is life after grief and it's not as bad as you might think it is now. And after grieving healthily, it's not that difficult to build it, either.


     

[Herodias]

Heartbroken, I feel your pain. Mine has been with this gf for about 8/9 months and she is 4 months pregnant. I had a miscarriage and he told me he did not want children and I had a hysterectomy due to endometriosis. Later years he said "lets have a baby" knowing we could not. Not sure if he has changed his mind or if he is just stuck and making the best of it! I feel like I am being shown how fortunate I was to have that miscarriage and have had a miserable life with him and he still would have left! His story is that he is afraid of me because I will call the police on him when he is violent. He claims he is not being that way now, but I know it will come... .I can only hope not against a baby. I agree with this comment; "My point in telling you all that is I want you to please try to remember the whirlwind.  It may seem like he's having a great time with his new woman, but ultimately it's fake.  It's also triangulation (him, her, and the baby).  As soon as the baby comes, he'll probably lose control because she will be focusing all her attention on the baby.  Remember, emotionally, he's a toddler and its been my experience that toddlers don't do well with mommy not paying them all the attention." He is already trying to get me in the middle! Can you imagine being asked to be a part of his baby life? That's what mine did! Crazy! If I am honest with myself, I never wanted kids... .I just don't have that gene! I prefer pets! I think he does as well... .again, he is stuck! We know exactly how they will be. I know mine will do the "shut that kid up" thing as well. If not try to tell her she is doing everything wrong and is a bad mother! I know it for sure! Think of it as "It's a wonderful life" and we are given a chance to see how it would have been if we were the ones with the child... .Instead, these new partners will have the brunt of the torture, because they don't know what they are getting into! That is their karma for getting involved with married people. I am trying to not be angry and realize they are ill people and we did all we could do and nothing will change it. It is sounding like therapy may not either. I agree about the fact that if you have children, they may not turn out to be wonderful and there for us when we are older... .I keep thinking at this age (I am 50) I will more than likely meet someone with kids... .Older kids! Not having to deal with screaming babies, which I cringe at when I hear them in stores! So does he! They say it's different with your own. I will never know. I do know someone who never had kids and married someone with kids. After years of dealing with the one daughter with problems, that daughter overdosed on drugs. You just never know. We do tend to fantasize that they will have this happy little family life and we will not. We do not know what is in our future, but we can be sure to know that they do not change and their lives will be pretty much the same. They repeat patterns. I keep hearing mine say they have no money, but he has managed to come up with money to go play golf at Kiawah Is. Selfish as always... .He is probably running up her credit cards and she is going to have to buy baby stuff! Just keep remembering the bad... .try and focus on the chance at a better life. We all deserve that after all that we have been through. Happiness is temporary. Joy is forever... .look for the joy.

[Herodias]

Well said This World! So true! Maybe one of those "dull" options will not be so bad once we realize we don't like drama,    It is true men have so many choices. One guy in my divorce group met someone two months after his separation! It's so easy for them! My husband is younger by 16 years, so I am not doing the "cougar" thing again!   I just want companionship... .I am having allot of fun with friends. The hugs and kisses are what I miss. Dogs don't quite make it for that... .but I am going to try and think positive. It only takes one... .I think if we imagine what we want, it will come into our lives. My mistake was asking for blue eyes and health insurance! I should have asked for allot more! Now I am about to lose my health insurance and that seems to be my biggest fear. Dumb, huh? He held that over me for a long time... .I am sure I will be fine, just hope and pray nothing really bad happens.

[Lonely_Astro]

It is absolutely a process. I personally am dipping my toes into a recycle; allowing BpdH to come home for Christmas and spend a few weeks with me.  The invitation from me to do so came after 6 days of NC initiated by me. So yes, I can certainly generate my own push/pull.

You may be being a bit hard on yourself to consider your years together a sham. One thing I do believe about pwBpd is they can feel some version of love. So when BpdH tells me,"love you,"  I believe he means it. When he called me a despicable lying thief (earlier this summer), I believe he meant that too.  I tell him, "I love you."  I have also (but not to his face) called him an ass.  So, in some ways, pwBpd are not so different from a non.

I am not a therapist. Just a wife with my own story.  

I don't consider the past year to be a sham.  Really, I don't.  There were moments that I know she absolutely loved me (to the best she could).  I don't think she meant to hurt me, in the sense of malice.  I do think she is accountable for what she chose to do.  She may be BPD, but she knows right from wrong.  No one forced her to date a guy for the entire month of July (while we were rocky), she chose to do that.  Just like no one forced her to go a date with the new guy while leaving the end of our r/s vague ("I don't want this to be over.  We will figure it out, together," were her exact words to me a couple of weeks ago).  She is still adamant that it was just dinner and no romantic r/s has formed (eh, I know her better than that.  If it hasn't, it will). 

The end result to this is the same: we are over.  She's dipping her toes in trying to keep me around with this "honest" kick she's suddenly on.  But, my trust in her is completely gone.  There's no going back for me, only forward, and forward doesn't have her in my life.  We're supposed to talk 1-1 (emotionally) tomorrow.  I don't expect it to go well for either of us.  I won't be angry or anything like that, but I also plan to not wear kid gloves.  I have nothing to lose now, so I'm laying the cards out when its time to put them on the table.  I plan to post about it on its own thread tomorrow night or this weekend.

Good luck with letting him back in!  I know you don't need to hear it from me, but be careful what you wish for

[hollycat]

To the ladies on this thread (no offense guys!)

I suggested to my girlfriends (all 50ish) that if we aren't in happy marriages by the time we are 60, we are pooling our funds to buy a fabulous place somewhere (Florida, New Orleans) and live together.

As long as we each have our own bedroom, we can share cooking and cleaning duties.  I can think of worse things than living with my best girlfriends in an oceanfront condo!

[Herodias]

Hollycat, that is a perfect idea! I keep wondering why more women don't do that and live like "The Golden Girls"... .people are trying to hard to live on their own and need to learn to live together! It sounds fun to me! Of course we all want to be in a r/s... .but you never know.

[hollycat]

To Astro:

I am eager to hear what happens with you and ex.  As for me, I am keeping my expectations low. To hold hands while we sleep, for me to look into his beautiful gray eyes, for him to maybe fix the leaky spot in the roof    will make me happy.  I am the poster child for being careful what I wish for.

We are aware he is not moving back in. This is a visit.  I enjoy him when he is own his best behavior.

[thisworld]

Hey!

I was just about to say I live down the Mediterranean coast, let's have a one-year healing and have a little holiday here. We can wear whites, get on a sailboat and have a selfie:))

Lonely_Astro, as a member of this thread maybe you can come, too, but you'll have to pay us compliments non-stop:))

I know it's painful for all of us but there is a future and now, we have the right to imagine beautiful things for ourselves. And they won't be sabotaged.

[hollycat]

Blue,

I am on my third marriage. Definitely NO MORE for me after this one.  I may get divorced or we may live apart or hell may freeze over and we live together again. I don't know and right now, I don't care.  I don't know any happy relationships.  My best friend from law school has a mom in her 80's.  Her mom says, "After 50, the men just want a nurse or a purse.  Usually both."

If being in a relationship with a man, means I become a nurse and/or purse (and I have already been there and done that), well, no thanks.  And I am far too independent (and picky) to consider becoming one of those women who shop for an old, rich husband.

I teach high school in an alternative school.  I have the tough kids. I work retail on weekends because I love the store product and the discount is generous and it is a high end store. I can tell you the most beautiful, sharpest, happiest looking women who come in are single.  They obviously know something we all need to find out.  

[hollycat]

To thisworld:

One of my New Year resolutions is to get my passport next year.  I want/need a trip! I want the freedom the passport offers! Who knows!

[Lonely_Astro]

To Astro:

I am eager to hear what happens with you and ex.  As for me, I am keeping my expectations low. To hold hands while we sleep, for me to look into his beautiful gray eyes, for him to maybe fix the leaky spot in the roof    will make me happy.  I am the poster child for being careful what I wish for.

We are aware he is not moving back in. This is a visit.  I enjoy him when he is own his best behavior.

I plan to start my own topic tomorrow, detailing the conversation that we have.

I, too, long for another intimate encounter with her.  Hold her hand or have her sleep in my lap so I can stroke her hair (she has one of the most beautiful, thickest mane I have ever ran my hands through) or even more if that were an option.  I would feel like total crap and be anxious afterward, but that doesnt mean I don't want it any less.

I liken my r/s with her like that of heroin mixed with nitroglycerin.  I know it's bad for me and I know it's going to blow up at some point, but that doesn't make me want it any less.