Is there anything good about a person with BPD , or is it a lost sad case ?

[guy4caligirl]

Just wondering what do you guys think ?

[thisworld]

No lost sad case, or even no lost horrible, evil case is hundred per cent bad. Even Satan, the metaphorical representative of bad has a quality like speaking up his mind at the face of the biggest ever authority. I think that's quite a good quality in some senses. Speak to victims of diagnosed psychopaths (ASPD), batterers etc, and they will say there was something "good" in these people. That's also one reason why people with care-giving or rescuer reflexes stay in unhealthy relationships in earlier phases (they are seeing that "good" in a person). But still, that good is not a lie. Neither is it the criterion that determines whether something is a lost case. Actually, there is nothing like a "lost case" in the sense that the pwBPD with carry on living their lives doing whatever they are doing. It can only be a "lost case" from our perspective, so it's us that's matters. Do we, whatever their good or bad aspects are, wish to remain in an intimate relationship with them? Does it make us happy the way it is right now? The rest is probably a fantasy, are we ready to tie our future happiness to a fantasy? Do we believe that we see in front of our eyes is good for us? If not, that's a lost case regardless of that person's qualities. Someone may have 99 very good qualities but just 1 bad quality - for me. And if that 1 is something that I cannot handle, then that's a lost case for me. Serial cheating, emotional affairs etc are like that for me for instance. He may be a very good person otherwise, but the relationship will not make me happy.   Seeing someone 100% bad is a bit lke "blacking" maybe.

[hashtag_loyal]

Always remember the 'p' in a pwBPD stands for 'person'. Unless your BPDex was literally Hitler, I think your question is hyperbole at best, and not very helpful either way.

[Foolishwizdom]

I wonder if part of your questions is:  Is the good you see or experience from the pwBPD real?  It can become so difficult to tell if it is manipulation or if we are looking so hard for good that we see what we want to see.

When the good is real, is that good worth holding onto if it comes with the rest of the package or does the negativity and pain eclipse that good so much that other parts?

What is hard for me is seeing that there is good in my husband. And I still have moments where I feel in my heart that his good is genuine.  But the rollercoaster is hard.  As detach more, I realize that he is experiencing this as real himself - his negativity and frustrations and accusations are not calculated to intentionally hurt me but are broken defense mechanisms.  What makes me feel sad about that is that in his way, he is loving me the best he can.  His way is just broken and since he can't see that regularly enough to grow, I don't know if that will change.  I don't know that that can be enough for me.  And I know he won't understand if I decide to leave and in his pain, he will be vicious.  This makes me very sad.

I am leaning that way but the self-doubt creeps back in. Maybe I am not trying hard enough. Maybe I am being too sensitive. Maybe there is still a rhythm we can find to make this work even if it won't be the marriage I thought it would be... .and not trusting your own judgement or feeling conflicted about yourself in this process is sad too.   

[unicorn2014]

If a pwBPD is diagnosed and treated they can fully recover. The thing is they have to want to recover. If a person is not ready to recover there is nothing you can do to make that happen. Likewise a person has to want to seek out help. Loving the person as they are is what is necessary if you want to have a relationship with them at that point in their life.

[Jwifeandmom]

well put

I wonder if part of your questions is:  Is the good you see or experience from the pwBPD real?  It can become so difficult to tell if it is manipulation or if we are looking so hard for good that we see what we want to see.

When the good is real, is that good worth holding onto if it comes with the rest of the package or does the negativity and pain eclipse that good so much that other parts?

What is hard for me is seeing that there is good in my husband. And I still have moments where I feel in my heart that his good is genuine.  But the rollercoaster is hard.  As detach more, I realize that he is experiencing this as real himself - his negativity and frustrations and accusations are not calculated to intentionally hurt me but are broken defense mechanisms.  What makes me feel sad about that is that in his way, he is loving me the best he can.  His way is just broken and since he can't see that regularly enough to grow, I don't know if that will change.  I don't know that that can be enough for me.  And I know he won't understand if I decide to leave and in his pain, he will be vicious.  This makes me very sad.

I am leaning that way but the self-doubt creeps back in. Maybe I am not trying hard enough. Maybe I am being too sensitive. Maybe there is still a rhythm we can find to make this work even if it won't be the marriage I thought it would be... .and not trusting your own judgement or feeling conflicted about yourself in this process is sad too.   

[Anna17]

I have been with my pwBPD many years, and I am certain he truly cares, wants only the best for his loved ones, wants the same things we want (peaceful home, etc). He never intends to create chaos, and he feels that his actions are appropriate in a given situation. At one time, I might have said he is a monster who loves hurting people, but I have long moved past that.

I think disordered perceptions regarding emotions are the core of BPD. A typical pattern that occurs is this:

1. Everyone in the household is peacefully doing their own thing and interacting in positive or neutral ways, but the pwBPD will perceive something aimed at him that is very threatening, insulting, or devaluing, even if it was not meant that way in t he slightest.

2. He will fly into a rage, yell, use obscenities, aim horrible insults.

3. I have learned not to react to this kind of thing,  but something ugly he says during his rage will cross the line with someone and they'll tell him he's being really awful, shut up, get out, etc.

4. Chaos ensues.

The pwBPD hates all this as much as anyone and didn't want it to happen. However, his perception is that he was a victim of someone else's meanness who purposely twisted everything to make him look bad.

1. So-and-so said or implied some terrible thing about him.

2. He attempted to explain or defend himself.

3. So-and-so screamed horrible insults at him and then everyone else piled on.

This is honestly how he thinks. It is really bizarre. Another example: he is yelling and screaming over some nonexistent threat or insult, and I respond in a reasonably quiet voice but with some seriousness to it, maybe something like, "Okay, things are getting too heated here. We all need to take a break." (Purposely trying to avoid pointing the finger at him.) He often will then say I am "screaming" at him, why am I doing this because he wasnt raising his voice. Anyone witnessing this has their mouth open in disbelief.

He does not normally have a skewed perception of reality at all. But in an emotional situation, he can be very delusional.

I understand why some people see pwBpd as terrible and evil. But I think it's important to understand that it is not their intention to hurt and disrupt. I do remember times he has purposely said something that pushed a particular person's hot button and said something that was particularly hurtful to that person. Really ugly stuff sometimes, and he did intend it to hurt. But in his completely inaccurate view, that person was viciously attacking him and had backed him into a corner so he had to pull out the "big guns."

[Jwifeandmom]

this directly describes my spouse!

but, ok, we know they dont mean it

but they are doing it and putting us (and themselves!) thru it!

so they have to do something to get some help and stop

this is where i am at now , in my relationship

I have been with my pwBPD many years, and I am certain he truly cares, wants only the best for his loved ones, wants the same things we want (peaceful home, etc). He never intends to create chaos, and he feels that his actions are appropriate in a given situation. At one time, I might have said he is a monster who loves hurting people, but I have long moved past that.

I think disordered perceptions regarding emotions are the core of BPD. A typical pattern that occurs is this:

1. Everyone in the household is peacefully doing their own thing and interacting in positive or neutral ways, but the pwBPD will perceive something aimed at him that is very threatening, insulting, or devaluing, even if it was not meant that way in t he slightest.

2. He will fly into a rage, yell, use obscenities, aim horrible insults.

3. I have learned not to react to this kind of thing,  but something ugly he says during his rage will cross the line with someone and they'll tell him he's being really awful, shut up, get out, etc.

4. Chaos ensues.

The pwBPD hates all this as much as anyone and didn't want it to happen. However, his perception is that he was a victim of someone else's meanness who purposely twisted everything to make him look bad.

1. So-and-so said or implied some terrible thing about him.

2. He attempted to explain or defend himself.

3. So-and-so screamed horrible insults at him and then everyone else piled on.

This is honestly how he thinks. It is really bizarre. Another example: he is yelling and screaming over some nonexistent threat or insult, and I respond in a reasonably quiet voice but with some seriousness to it, maybe something like, "Okay, things are getting too heated here. We all need to take a break." (Purposely trying to avoid pointing the finger at him.) He often will then say I am "screaming" at him, why am I doing this because he wasnt raising his voice. Anyone witnessing this has their mouth open in disbelief.

He does not normally have a skewed perception of reality at all. But in an emotional situation, he can be very delusional.

I understand why some people see pwBpd as terrible and evil. But I think it's important to understand that it is not their intention to hurt and disrupt. I do remember times he has purposely said something that pushed a particular person's hot button and said something that was particularly hurtful to that person. Really ugly stuff sometimes, and he did intend it to hurt. But in his completely inaccurate view, that person was viciously attacking him and had backed him into a corner so he had to pull out the "big guns."

[steve195915]

I have been with my pwBPD many years, and I am certain he truly cares, wants only the best for his loved ones, wants the same things we want (peaceful home, etc). He never intends to create chaos, and he feels that his actions are appropriate in a given situation. At one time, I might have said he is a monster who loves hurting people, but I have long moved past that.

I think disordered perceptions regarding emotions are the core of BPD. A typical pattern that occurs is this:

1. Everyone in the household is peacefully doing their own thing and interacting in positive or neutral ways, but the pwBPD will perceive something aimed at him that is very threatening, insulting, or devaluing, even if it was not meant that way in t he slightest.

2. He will fly into a rage, yell, use obscenities, aim horrible insults.

3. I have learned not to react to this kind of thing,  but something ugly he says during his rage will cross the line with someone and they'll tell him he's being really awful, shut up, get out, etc.

4. Chaos ensues.

The pwBPD hates all this as much as anyone and didn't want it to happen. However, his perception is that he was a victim of someone else's meanness who purposely twisted everything to make him look bad.

1. So-and-so said or implied some terrible thing about him.

2. He attempted to explain or defend himself.

3. So-and-so screamed horrible insults at him and then everyone else piled on.

This is honestly how he thinks. It is really bizarre. Another example: he is yelling and screaming over some nonexistent threat or insult, and I respond in a reasonably quiet voice but with some seriousness to it, maybe something like, "Okay, things are getting too heated here. We all need to take a break." (Purposely trying to avoid pointing the finger at him.) He often will then say I am "screaming" at him, why am I doing this because he wasnt raising his voice. Anyone witnessing this has their mouth open in disbelief.

He does not normally have a skewed perception of reality at all. But in an emotional situation, he can be very delusional.

I understand why some people see pwBpd as terrible and evil. But I think it's important to understand that it is not their intention to hurt and disrupt. I do remember times he has purposely said something that pushed a particular person's hot button and said something that was particularly hurtful to that person. Really ugly stuff sometimes, and he did intend it to hurt. But in his completely inaccurate view, that person was viciously attacking him and had backed him into a corner so he had to pull out the "big guns."

So much like my relationship.  I agree that they want peace and love but their delusional perceptions are what drives their subsequent emotional outbursts and actions.  All very sad. 

Yes I believe they have a lot of good in them.   

When I try to relate and put myself in their irrational thought patterns and emotions of a child, their words and actions make a lot of sense and are very predictable.  My SO has immense jealousy, all part of the fear of abandonment issue so when I get a phone call or text from a female, no matter how innocent it is, she thinks I'm cheating and going to leave her for that person.  So I think to myself how I would react if I was absolutely convinced my SO was cheating on me.  I would maybe cry and feel immense pain, I may respond with calling them down on it with anger and words of hate, and may break off the relationship and leave them.  Exact same type of responses she has.  My pwBPD's resultant actions to any situation are very predictable if I attempt to think as they do.  The unfortunate thing is that there is no hope of things to be normal without professional help and even that has limited success. It's so hard for me being a caregiver type to acknowledge that I can't fix her problem, that the relationship will never be peaceful for very long and will always have times of chaos filled with hurt and pain for all participants.   On top of that, when their emotions feel strong love, they can show that and make you feel so wonderful.  It's so hard to walk away.  Very very sad.

[Anna17]

One phrase I often repeat is "explanations are not excuses." Acknowledging that BPD behaviors are a function of skewed perceptions instead of ill intent doesnt make them "okay." My h no longer lives with us because his behavior created an atmosphere that was chao t ic and unhealthy. We have two almost adult children and one middle schooler, and their home had become an unstable place where they didnt feel safe.  Their needs had to come first.

While everyone's perception of reality is slightly different and no one is always "right," my h should see by now that his perception and its resulting behaviors do not fit in with the rest of the world's. Since he has lived on his own, his BPD behaviors have caused him to be arrested and jailed twice, to go through a long string of roommates, and, finally, to be banned from his neighborhood for being a "nuisance." You'd think he'd get the picture by now. He may not have ill motives, but ignoring the all this serious evidence that his behaviors are a destructive force is not the action of a truly good person.

[Jwifeandmom]

Sorry to hear this has happened

but thank you for sharing , i am new here, this is helpful to hear ... .you are quite right,

. He may not have ill motives, but ignoring the all this serious evidence that his behaviors are a destructive force is not the action of a truly good person.

[steve195915]

One phrase I often repeat is "explanations are not excuses." Acknowledging that BPD behaviors are a function of skewed perceptions instead of ill intent doesnt make them "okay." My h no longer lives with us because his behavior created an atmosphere that was chao t ic and unhealthy. We have two almost adult children and one middle schooler, and their home had become an unstable place where they didnt feel safe.  Their needs had to come first.

While everyone's perception of reality is slightly different and no one is always "right," my h should see by now that his perception and its resulting behaviors do not fit in with the rest of the world's. Since he has lived on his own, his BPD behaviors have caused him to be arrested and jailed twice, to go through a long string of roommates, and, finally, to be banned from his neighborhood for being a "nuisance." You'd think he'd get the picture by now. He may not have ill motives, but ignoring the all this serious evidence that his behaviors are a destructive force is not the action of a truly good person.

Yes there is no excuse for their behavior and I wouldn't ever say they are truly good people.  A lot of their words are very hateful and their actions can be downright evil and they don't seem to be able to grasp they're at fault or the results of their actions, they always have a reason it's someone else's fault, and they seem to want to seek help. I'm sure some of us non's that been through hell can think of them as evil people.  I look at them as emotionally ill and not being able to grasp what they actually are doing.   

[Mutt]

One phrase I often repeat is "explanations are not excuses." Acknowledging that BPD behaviors are a function of skewed perceptions instead of ill intent doesnt make them "okay."

My ex wife taught me a valuable life lesson. I'll use Bruce Lee's words. I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine.

Everyone is different and has a different personality. In her mind she thinks that she's not wrong and her circumstances are caused by other people. Life is full of emotionally immature people and I had to stop reacting to her behaviors. My ex wife is who she is. I radically accepted that.

[Anna17]

Mutt, that is true, ant pwBPDs can go right ahead and adopt that as their creed... .if they want their life to consist  of a string of thoroughly broken relationships and ultimate loneliness.

But if they want to have other human beings In their lives,  they have to come ip with a different way of managing their emotions.

[Mutt]

But if they want to have other human beings In their lives,  they have to come ip with a different way of managing their emotions.

I agree with self management. You have to have self awareness and self reflection to understand that the behavior is dysfunctional in order to change it, if that is what the person wants.  The same could be said for someone without a personality disorder.

I can't change my ex wife but I can change my responses. Her behaviors are not personal to me because I'm indifferent with her behaviors.

[Foolishwizdom]

My biggest struggle right now is that my dBPDh wants kids.  And I don't think he has any clue what amount of work that will be, what the expenses will be, or how to understand my perspective on co-parenting.  We already struggle with household upkeep and sharing tasks.  The example that he has from his childhood does not help.

I want kids. But I also do not want kids to have an unstable home life.  I feel so conflicted.  Reason says we will never have a stable household because my husband can't change some fundamentals about himself.  My hope/optimism/wishful thinking says that there can be a way to manage it where we set up boundaries and outside supports.

If we had kids and they grew up with rages, developed poor habits, and suffered, I don't think I could forgive myself for being weak but I also don't think I could ever regret or not love a child that was mine.  Ugh! I feel trapped in this circle of indecision and in such gray. 

I think that if I say no to kids, my husband will want to leave.  Maybe that is the best.

[unicorn2014]

Foolish may I offer a different perspective?

At least you're having the conversation now.

I don't know how long you've been married but my ex husband proposed the idea of getting me pregnant two months into our relationship . I of course was not interested in being his baby mama, but that's how he was thinking.

I think if you wanted to have kids you would make a great mom because you're here and you're self aware and that's all that necessary.

I have been told and I believe that all a child needs is one stable parent.

I know this if off topic to the original post so if you want to start a separate topic on this subject I would be happy to participate.

I think being married is the best thing parents can do for their kids, personally. So you already have that bridge crossed.

[patientandclear]

But if they want to have other human beings In their lives,  they have to come ip with a different way of managing their emotions.

I agree with self management. You have to have self awareness and self reflection to understand that the behavior is dysfunctional in order to change it, if that is what the person wants.  The same could be said for someone without a personality disorder.

I can't change my ex wife but I can change my responses. Her behaviors are not personal to me because I'm indifferent with her behaviors.

But that isn't a way of maintaining a true relationship. That is a way to not be hurt by BPD behaviors. Anna's point, I think, is that there is a low ceiling on how fulfilling the life of someone wBPD is going to be, if the reaction to distorted emotional perceptions is not managed.

[Mutt]

But if they want to have other human beings In their lives,  they have to come ip with a different way of managing their emotions.

I agree with self management. You have to have self awareness and self reflection to understand that the behavior is dysfunctional in order to change it, if that is what the person wants.  The same could be said for someone without a personality disorder.

I can't change my ex wife but I can change my responses. Her behaviors are not personal to me because I'm indifferent with her behaviors.

But that isn't a way of maintaining a true relationship. That is a way to not be hurt by BPD behaviors. Anna's point, I think, is that there is a low ceiling on how fulfilling the life of someone wBPD is going to be, if the reaction to distorted emotional perceptions is not managed.

Is that your point? I think its speculating. Let's ask Anna?