Income/ Child Support

[jac8949]

My ex - significant other has BPD.  We have 2 kids together.  I am in Maryland.  I am meeting with an attorney on Wednesday to file a complaint for custody and Child Support.  I currently have the children as she is bouncing back and forth between two of her college professors that she is having intercourse with. 

I need to figure out what my options are in Worst case scenario.  I currently have the children.  I will likely lose custody. Not interested in explaining why.

Now... .I need to know if anyone has experience with MD law with regard to income.  I am not at all interested in paying the calculated child support amount as $0 of that money will ever go to the children.

I simply want to know if anyone is familiar with the law in MD... .like how many years do I need to show a lower income before that goes in to the calculation.  Do I need to change my job now, before I see the attorney?

I am not interested in any altruistic comments about how doing something like this is not the "right thing to do" or is potentially fraudulent. I simply want to know what my options are with regard to the law.

Also... .there is no marriage.  No divorce.  No palimony in MD.  It is a simple child support calculation. 

[jac8949]

I am reading that SSI may be the way to go... .but that sounds absurdly extreme.

[scraps66]

If you choose to take a lower paying job, the courts may use your "earning potential" to establish support.  if you had done this after establishing the support payments, it would be considered your choice to work below your means, but you still would be obligated to pay the amount based on your earning potential.  I don't know MD law, but pretty sure this is consistent.  There is the gray area of not  yet having an order, but taking a lower paying job so suddenly in advance of the support hearing, that may make you look bad.

Not sure of the reasons an you don't have to say anything, but lots of men on here have been brainwashed into thinking they have no chance at gaining custody, only to go through the process and end up with majority time.  If this is your thinking, put the bar as high as it will go from the onset.  It's easier to get more, now, than ask for more later.  In the long run, maybe cheaper too.

Document everything and go as far back as your memory will allow. 

[jac8949]

If you choose to take a lower paying job, the courts may use your "earning potential" to establish support.  if you had done this after establishing the support payments, it would be considered your choice to work below your means, but you still would be obligated to pay the amount based on your earning potential.  I don't know MD law, but pretty sure this is consistent.  There is the gray area of not  yet having an order, but taking a lower paying job so suddenly in advance of the support hearing, that may make you look bad.

Not sure of the reasons an you don't have to say anything, but lots of men on here have been brainwashed into thinking they have no chance at gaining custody, only to go through the process and end up with majority time.  If this is your thinking, put the bar as high as it will go from the onset.  It's easier to get more, now, than ask for more later.  In the long run, maybe cheaper too.

Document everything and go as far back as your memory will allow. 

I dont know if I agree with you.  It makes no sense for me to try and get the kids on a limited basis.  I have been doing many different calculations using the Maryland State Website.  Lets say I get 36% of the overnights.  My child support payment calculates out to $1400 per month.  If I have to pay that, I dont have the means to provide adequate care for the children during the time that I have them (ie the 36% of the overnights), therefore it would not be in the children's best interest for me to take them during that time period.  If I dont fight anything... and just let her take the kids... I pay $1498 per month. 

[ForeverDad]

I dont know if I agree with you.  It makes no sense for me to try and get the kids on a limited basis.  I have been doing many different calculations using the Maryland State Website.  Lets say I get 36% of the overnights.  My child support payment calculates out to $1400 per month.  If I have to pay that, I don't have the means to provide adequate care for the children during the time that I have them (ie the 36% of the overnights), therefore it would not be in the children's best interest for me to take them during that time period.  If I don't fight anything... and just let her take the kids... I pay $1498 per month.

I feel you're looking at this too much from the financial perspective.  Yes, it's important but frankly your priority needs to be the children, money ought to be lower on your list.

If you step out of the picture simply for financial reasons, can you imagine your ex claiming to the kids, as many disordered ex's do, "He doesn't love about you... .He doesn't care about you... .He abandoned us... ."  Believe me if you're an involved father claims like that will be hard on the kids but they will at least have a relationship with you.  If you're out of the picture, there will be nothing to counter any biased claims framing you as disinterested or a bad guy.

Perspective:  Largely the outcome is up to the agencies and court now.  The excellent legal advice and strategies from your lawyer (and peer support here) is priceless.  What you and DH can do is continue to do your best for the long term sake of the boys but also be open to accepting the court's decision now that the boys are older.  By that I mean that DH will still be able, years from now when his children ask, ":)ad, did you fight for us?" then he can reply, "Yes, I did fight for you, I did my reasonable best."

If you choose to take a lower paying job, the courts may use your "earning potential" to establish support.  if you had done this after establishing the support payments, it would be considered your choice to work below your means, but you still would be obligated to pay the amount based on your earning potential.  I don't know MD law, but pretty sure this is consistent.  There is the gray area of not  yet having an order, but taking a lower paying job so suddenly in advance of the support hearing, that may make you look bad.

Imputed income is not uncommon.  I recall one reported case in CA where a doctor quit his practice and started flipping burgers.  Court ordered him to pay CS based upon the income he had the potential to make.  Now, if it's an issue that you can't find a higher paying job, that might make a difference.  Don't temp fate by giving the judge a reason to see you as a father putting money over the children.  Yes, the CS payments for 36% versus 0% may have a razor thin difference, but ponder your priorities, if the $$$ are so similar, why not try to get the kids as much as you can?

Not sure of the reasons an you don't have to say anything, but lots of men on here have been brainwashed into thinking they have no chance at gaining custody, only to go through the process and end up with majority time.  If this is your thinking, put the bar as high as it will go from the onset.  It's easier to get more, now, than ask for more later.  In the long run, maybe cheaper too.

If you've already got majority time without a court order, it's not unheard of for the court to keep parenting the way it is.  I recall my Custody Evaluator telling me in our first session that parenting history was about 50% of his recommendation!

While you may have your reasons to step back, be sure you are not abdicating when you actually have a good, if not also winning, hand.  Keep this in mind, the longer you have majority time, the more likely it is to get good court orders.  So be care not to "gift away" your current advantage AKA Leverage.

[livednlearned]

There is no need to change your job before seeing a lawyer -- you'll have attorney-client privilege. Some lawyers will be the ones advising you to do exactly what you are proposing if they think it will protect you.

If you can, talk to several lawyers. Consultations may run $300/hour. Have a list of questions you ask each one and ask them how they would strategize given your goals and objectives.

You don't have to explain why you would never get primary custody, but in general, if your kids are with her majority time, you'll be footing a bigger chunk of child support.

If you have the kids 100% of the time right now and she's entirely checked out, you may have a compelling case to get majority time, in which case she would be expected to contribute child support.

You can only glean so much from the website calculators -- your lawyer may have a strategy developed from years of experience that allows you to compute things in a favorable way.

How old are the kids?

[jac8949]

My biggest fear is that I am going to have a nervous breakdown. I have had a couple commitments to psychiatric facilities in the past.  I think that if I lose this and the am force to pay the 1498, that will be the straw that breaks the camels back.  

I have a therapist that keeps telling me that I need to stop doing the work that I am doing as she is afraid that I may have a heart attack... .

I am just scared that I am not going to be able to do what I need to do for my health due to this rule about imputing income... .

I may need to file disability for psych.  

[jac8949]

There is no need to change your job before seeing a lawyer -- you'll have attorney-client privilege. Some lawyers will be the ones advising you to do exactly what you are proposing if they think it will protect you.

If you can, talk to several lawyers. Consultations may run $300/hour. Have a list of questions you ask each one and ask them how they would strategize given your goals and objectives.

You don't have to explain why you would never get primary custody, but in general, if your kids are with her majority time, you'll be footing a bigger chunk of child support.

If you have the kids 100% of the time right now and she's entirely checked out, you may have a compelling case to get majority time, in which case she would be expected to contribute child support.

You can only glean so much from the website calculators -- your lawyer may have a strategy developed from years of experience that allows you to compute things in a favorable way.

How old are the kids?

You are completely wrong.  I have run the calculations over and over.  If I get the highest majority of overnights that I can get... ie 65%, I pay $900 a month. 

[jac8949]

There is no need to change your job before seeing a lawyer -- you'll have attorney-client privilege. Some lawyers will be the ones advising you to do exactly what you are proposing if they think it will protect you.

If you can, talk to several lawyers. Consultations may run $300/hour. Have a list of questions you ask each one and ask them how they would strategize given your goals and objectives.

You don't have to explain why you would never get primary custody, but in general, if your kids are with her majority time, you'll be footing a bigger chunk of child support.

If you have the kids 100% of the time right now and she's entirely checked out, you may have a compelling case to get majority time, in which case she would be expected to contribute child support.

You can only glean so much from the website calculators -- your lawyer may have a strategy developed from years of experience that allows you to compute things in a favorable way.

How old are the kids?

The kids are 4 and 7. 

[ForeverDad]

Wow, it must be especially hard for you facing the stress of not knowing the outcome.  Do you think you an step outside of your immediate situation, step outside the box so to speak, and see your case the way we see it?  That's called subjective (in the middle of it all) versus objective (able to ponder everything without the emotions and fears).

Think of Einstein.  One of the ways he was able to out-think his contemporaries is that he did "thought experiments".  That's how he realized what gravity could not be distinguished from acceleration in a closed box.  (Imagine a sitting elevator versus a moving elevator or rocket.)  So try doing some of your own thought experiments, not on gravity but on parenting.

One way to do this is to stop going in circles about your own dilemmas, think of someone else, imagine you have a good friend who is facing what you're facing.  What would you advise your friend to consider?  Hmm?  See how that works?  You can think better when you don't have the emotions racing through your head.  By stepping out and looking in from the outside you can shed the emotional impact and handle the facts without "catastrophizing" worse than it really is.

I have run the calculations over and over.  If I get the highest majority of overnights that I can get... ie 65%, I pay $900 a month.

Yes, but... .(1) A local lawyer can tell you whether there are other factors that might reduce those CS calculations and (2) does that include her having her income imputed?

I believe you'll get a lot of encouragement to START with the best temp court order possible.  Later on you can determine what you can and can't handle.  What we're saying is that if you step out now, you'll never know what you might have been able to gain as a parent.

For example, they're in elementary school or soon will be.  So you could have trusted relatives or a trusted neighbor with kids to help out before and after school, or use daycare.  The point is that there are always options.  Don't give up before you've barely started, give your better alternatives a chance first, then once they're exhausted you can ponder the less desirable alternatives.

Give parenting a real chance, okay?  Yes, you may have limitations, they may even be big ones, but don't needlessly sabotage yourself.  Okay?  Meanwhile, we're thinking positive vibes for you!

[jac8949]

Wow, it must be especially hard for you facing the stress of not knowing the outcome.  Do you think you an step outside of your immediate situation, step outside the box so to speak, and see your case the way we see it?  That's called subjective (in the middle of it all) versus objective (able to ponder everything without the emotions and fears).

Think of Einstein.  One of the ways he was able to out-think his contemporaries is that he did "thought experiments".  That's how he realized what gravity could not be distinguished from acceleration in a closed box.  (Imagine a sitting elevator versus a moving elevator or rocket.)  So try doing some of your own thought experiments, not on gravity but on parenting.

One way to do this is to stop going in circles about your own dilemmas, think of someone else, imagine you have a good friend who is facing what you're facing.  What would you advise your friend to consider?  Hmm?  See how that works?  You can think better when you don't have the emotions racing through your head.  By stepping out and looking in from the outside you can shed the emotional impact and handle the facts without "catastrophizing" worse than it really is.

I have run the calculations over and over.  If I get the highest majority of overnights that I can get... ie 65%, I pay $900 a month.

Yes, but... .(1) A local lawyer can tell you whether there are other factors that might reduce those CS calculations and (2) does that include her having her income imputed?

I believe you'll get a lot of encouragement to START with the best temp court order possible.  Later on you can determine what you can and can't handle.  What we're saying is that if you step out now, you'll never know what you might have been able to gain as a parent.

For example, they're in elementary school or soon will be.  So you could have trusted relatives or a trusted neighbor with kids to help out before and after school, or use daycare.  The point is that there are always options.  Don't give up before you've barely started, give your better alternatives a chance first, then once they're exhausted you can ponder the less desirable alternatives.

Give parenting a real chance, okay?  Yes, you may have limitations, they may even be big ones, but don't needlessly sabotage yourself.  Okay?  Meanwhile, we're thinking positive vibes for you!

She has no income.  She is a full time student that has sex with her professors. 

[ForeverDad]

So she's a professional student?  Some here have reported that's what they faced, the other person was "always learning but never getting anywhere".  Well, ask the lawyer how that impacts calculations.

Mine didn't work either at the time, but we agreed to impute her income at minimum wage.  Her last job a few years prior was above minimum wage, but we agreed to the lesser imaginary amount as her potential.

Apparently you make sufficient income where you can afford to get more than one lawyer's legal advice in a consultation.  Retainers are expensive, initial consultations aren't.  Meeting with multiple lawyers can give you a more complete general picture, possible strategies, etc.  That way you can choose a lawyer who has more proactive strategies and who you're relatively comfortable with.  You may need more than a forms filer and hand holder.

I get the impression she's more concerned with adult relationships than her parenting relationship?  In that case you may not have as difficult a struggle to be a parent.  A smaller subset of relationships here fit that "wandering spouse" scenario and the conflict of divorce may be much less than you fear.  So don't sell yourself short, for all you know she might be the one to abdicate parenting.

[jac8949]

Wow, it must be especially hard for you facing the stress of not knowing the outcome.  Do you think you an step outside of your immediate situation, step outside the box so to speak, and see your case the way we see it?  That's called subjective (in the middle of it all) versus objective (able to ponder everything without the emotions and fears).

Think of Einstein.  One of the ways he was able to out-think his contemporaries is that he did "thought experiments".  That's how he realized what gravity could not be distinguished from acceleration in a closed box.  (Imagine a sitting elevator versus a moving elevator or rocket.)  So try doing some of your own thought experiments, not on gravity but on parenting.

One way to do this is to stop going in circles about your own dilemmas, think of someone else, imagine you have a good friend who is facing what you're facing.  What would you advise your friend to consider?  Hmm?  See how that works?  You can think better when you don't have the emotions racing through your head.  By stepping out and looking in from the outside you can shed the emotional impact and handle the facts without "catastrophizing" worse than it really is.

I have run the calculations over and over.  If I get the highest majority of overnights that I can get... ie 65%, I pay $900 a month.

Yes, but... .(1) A local lawyer can tell you whether there are other factors that might reduce those CS calculations and (2) does that include her having her income imputed?

I believe you'll get a lot of encouragement to START with the best temp court order possible.  Later on you can determine what you can and can't handle.  What we're saying is that if you step out now, you'll never know what you might have been able to gain as a parent.

For example, they're in elementary school or soon will be.  So you could have trusted relatives or a trusted neighbor with kids to help out before and after school, or use daycare.  The point is that there are always options.  Don't give up before you've barely started, give your better alternatives a chance first, then once they're exhausted you can ponder the less desirable alternatives.

Give parenting a real chance, okay?  Yes, you may have limitations, they may even be big ones, but don't needlessly sabotage yourself.  Okay?  Meanwhile, we're thinking positive vibes for you!

Is this really a BPD support board?  I just realized that you all of completely missed the entire point this entire thing.  I figured that you all would have read between the lines on this one... .but since you have not... .I will spell it out for you... .at the end of the day... .I will have the kids.  She is not capable of being alone with them.  She is not capable of being a parent.  

I have never in my life seen someone more delusion than her.    

However, she does not take drugs, commit crimes, or legally neglect her children. From an outsiders perspective, she is a young mother seeking to better herself.  I will never win primary custody with that.  She will win.  I will be ordered to pay... then I will get the kids 90% of the time.  

The only other solution would be to do certain things to aggravate her BPD and instigate an arrest.  I could do this if I wanted to.  But it is outside my value system.  

[jac8949]

So what I am getting at here is this. 

Since she is incapable of being a mom and the law is undeniably in her favor... .she will get a child support order against me and I will wind up with the children. 

I will be funding her sexual escapades for the next 14 years. 

I honestly believe that some men would just off her.  Not saying that I would do anything like that... .but... some men would likely just kill her and get it over with. 

This is why they have things like Sharia in the muslim culture. 

[ForeverDad]

Is this really a BPD support board?  I just realized that you all of completely missed the entire point this entire thing.  I figured that you all would have read between the lines on this one... .but since you have not... .I will spell it out for you... .at the end of the day... .I will have the kids.  She is not capable of being alone with them.  She is not capable of being a parent.  

I have never in my life seen someone more delusion than her.    

However, she does not take drugs, commit crimes, or legally neglect her children. From an outsiders perspective, she is a young mother seeking to better herself.  I will never win primary custody with that.  She will win.  I will be ordered to pay... then I will get the kids 90% of the time.  

The only other solution would be to do certain things to aggravate her BPD and instigate an arrest.  I could do this if I wanted to.  But it is outside my value system.

It is good that you have a value set to not be unethical.  However, that does not mean you fail to uncover her behaviors and patterns that are typically only exposed in the privacy of the family environment.  And you do not want to do anything untoward that would make you appear to be "part of the problem".  You want to be seen by the professionals as not just a capable parent but also a Problem Solver, someone who has answers to the issues or at least seeks then out, someone who works with the court and other professionals.

Your state surely has a process to assess the family members.  In most states it is called a Custody Evaluation.  I think in some states it is called an in-depth Psychological Evaluation.  Whichever the name, it takes a look at both parents and the children, multiple sessions with the evaluator, administering psych test (the best is the MMPI2).  The court will generally defer to the CE report's conclusions and recommendations.  THAT is where you put your best foot forward.  It sounds like your ex will flunk at least to some extent in those sessions.

Here's a little about my Custody Evaluation.  In my first session the child psychologist said, "I'm not here to diagnose, just to make recommendations to the court concerning custody and parenting.  About 50% is History of Majority Parenting."  That crushed me because my then-spouse had stopped working when our child was born and the temp order assigned her temp custody and majority time.  But after several sessions and based on the tests, his initial report summarized the total opposite, "Mother cannot share 'her' child but Father can... .Mother should immediately lost temporary custody... .If Shared Parenting is attempted but fails, then Father should have custody."  Needless to say, I had an excellent Custody Evaluator.  Although it took years, my current standing: I have sole custody and I have majority time during the school years.  Because I have majority time and she didn't submit her income, I don't pay child support.  So though it took time, my parenting eventually revered from sidelined to in charge.

Frankly many here eventually get better orders than they first feared.  Which is why I encouraged, beware of catastrophizing. Things can and generally do get better over time.

Okay, focusing on your last couple posts, your worry is that she'll get majority and money and then still leave the kids with you.  Let's ponder that risk of a poor outcome.  Yes, that might be the initial outcome.  Temporary orders often do favor the mother.  It's hard to get much presented to a judge in a half hour slice of a judge's time.  In your case it will be crucial for you to present your proof to the court you've been the majority time parent for _ months or _ years.  A judge ought to be reluctant to unilaterally change the current parenting patterns.  Then sometimes during the divorce process get the the court to order a custody evaluation if a reasonable settlement can't be reached in ordered mediation.  That evaluator ought to be able to take a much closer look than the court would ever take.

If the final decree isn't reasonable, then all hope is NOT lost.  After a year, or maybe two, of you documenting all the parenting time she hands back to you, you can file for (in most states) a Change of Circumstances.  Present your documentation that you've been consistently doing the majority of parenting and then the court could review the logs and other documents, including any new misbehavior and delusions you might have experienced, and the court could then make appropriate changes in your favor.

One of the gems of peer support is that from among the hundreds and thousands of members, there will have been at least some who've "been there, done that" and can share their experiences, what worked and what didn't work, help you avoid common pitfalls and cheer you on despite any occasional setbacks.

[jac8949]

So what I am getting at here is this. 

Since she is incapable of being a mom and the law is undeniably in her favor... .she will get a child support order against me and I will wind up with the children. 

I will be funding her sexual escapades for the next 14 years. 

I honestly believe that some men would just off her.  Not saying that I would do anything like that... .but... some men would likely just kill her and get it over with. 

This is why they have things like Sharia in the muslim culture. 

I want to fully retract my comment here... .This is just meant to be funny... .I do realize that any comments about Muslims and homicide are really insensitive.  I was just trying to bring light to the situation.

[Turkish]

jac,

Humor can be an outlet. My T said that I had a sick and twisted sense of humor (he picked up on me subtly ridiculing his profession right away,.for example). You're hurt, maybe devastated by her actions towards you (who wouldn't be?), and secondarily her neglect of your children. I think that may have been the hardest part for me, seeing my childrens' pain due to a neglectful mother, and my story doesn't quite approach yours even.

I'd like to underscore Foreverdad's comments about parenting time. Even if you decide not to fight up front for majority custody, if she leaves the kids with you for 90% of the time, then that certainly qualifies as a change of circumstances in which you may likely be awarded majority custody. Better to establsh your boundary now, than going through time and money to do it later. Keep your money for you and your children. Kids don't understand money. Their currency is love (attention, affection, and even discipline). Not having the pain of sending their mom so much money, you can better focus on the currency that counts for the kids, because it sounds like you'll have them anyway.

Turkish

[jac8949]

Is this really a BPD support board?  I just realized that you all of completely missed the entire point this entire thing.  I figured that you all would have read between the lines on this one... .but since you have not... .I will spell it out for you... .at the end of the day... .I will have the kids.  She is not capable of being alone with them.  She is not capable of being a parent.  

I have never in my life seen someone more delusion than her.    

However, she does not take drugs, commit crimes, or legally neglect her children. From an outsiders perspective, she is a young mother seeking to better herself.  I will never win primary custody with that.  She will win.  I will be ordered to pay... then I will get the kids 90% of the time.  

The only other solution would be to do certain things to aggravate her BPD and instigate an arrest.  I could do this if I wanted to.  But it is outside my value system.

It is good that you have a value set to not be unethical.  However, that does not mean you fail to uncover her behaviors and patterns that are typically only exposed in the privacy of the family environment.  And you do not want to do anything untoward that would make you appear to be "part of the problem".  You want to be seen by the professionals as not just a capable parent but also a Problem Solver, someone who has answers to the issues or at least seeks then out, someone who works with the court and other professionals.

Your state surely has a process to assess the family members.  In most states it is called a Custody Evaluation.  I think in some states it is called an in-depth Psychological Evaluation.  Whichever the name, it takes a look at both parents and the children, multiple sessions with the evaluator, administering psych test (the best is the MMPI2).  The court will generally defer to the CE report's conclusions and recommendations.  THAT is where you put your best foot forward.  It sounds like your ex will flunk at least to some extent in those sessions.

Here's a little about my Custody Evaluation.  In my first session the child psychologist said, "I'm not here to diagnose, just to make recommendations to the court concerning custody and parenting.  About 50% is History of Majority Parenting."  That crushed me because my then-spouse had stopped working when our child was born and the temp order assigned her temp custody and majority time.  But after several sessions and based on the tests, his initial report summarized the total opposite, "Mother cannot share 'her' child but Father can... .Mother should immediately lost temporary custody... .If Shared Parenting is attempted but fails, then Father should have custody."  Needless to say, I had an excellent Custody Evaluator.  Although it took years, my current standing: I have sole custody and I have majority time during the school years.  Because I have majority time and she didn't submit her income, I don't pay child support.  So though it took time, my parenting eventually revered from sidelined to in charge.

Frankly many here eventually get better orders than they first feared.  Which is why I encouraged, beware of catastrophizing. Things can and generally do get better over time.

Okay, focusing on your last couple posts, your worry is that she'll get majority and money and then still leave the kids with you.  Let's ponder that risk of a poor outcome.  Yes, that might be the initial outcome.  Temporary orders often do favor the mother.  It's hard to get much presented to a judge in a half hour slice of a judge's time.  In your case it will be crucial for you to present your proof to the court you've been the majority time parent for _ months or _ years.  A judge ought to be reluctant to unilaterally change the current parenting patterns.  Then sometimes during the divorce process get the the court to order a custody evaluation if a reasonable settlement can't be reached in ordered mediation.  That evaluator ought to be able to take a much closer look than the court would ever take.

If the final decree isn't reasonable, then all hope is NOT lost.  After a year, or maybe two, of you documenting all the parenting time she hands back to you, you can file for (in most states) a Change of Circumstances.  Present your documentation that you've been consistently doing the majority of parenting and then the court could review the logs and other documents, including any new misbehavior and delusions you might have experienced, and the court could then make appropriate changes in your favor.

One of the gems of peer support is that from among the hundreds and thousands of members, there will have been at least some who've "been there, done that" and can share their experiences, what worked and what didn't work, help you avoid common pitfalls and cheer you on despite any occasional setbacks.

So tomorrow I go to see the attorney... .The following is an overview of the current overnights situation -

I pay her all of her bills... .her apartment, phone, utility and credit card... .around $1400 per month. 

Overnight Summary (14 day period):

Child            Mom                              Dad                          Maternal Grandparent

Child 1        2                                12                           0

Child 2        2                                10                           2

So that is 10-12 nights with me and 2 nights with mom over a two week period.  Absolutely none of this is documented.  It is my word against hers.

My biggest fear is this:

I go to my attorney and we file some sort of legal motion to solidify the above custody arrangement and change what I am paying her to what is "fair" given the overnights.  An then she simply takes the children on her next overnight and doesnt bring them back... .walks in to the state child support office and files for a  child support order. 

What do you think my goals should be with the attorney visit?

[GaGrl]

Documentation of this type can be as simple as a Google calendar or notes in your Outlook as to where the children spent the night, what they had for dinner, who helped with homework, play activities,who took to doctor, etc.  She won't be prepared with this detail.

As to the lawyer, focus on what you can do to file first and get favorable temp orders. She can't get temp orders to contradict yours without moving to a formal hearing, and that moves into custody evaluation possibilities.

[livednlearned]

jac,

Are you currently paying her bills? To clarify -- is she living in an apartment separate from where you live, and you're paying her rent, phone, utility, and credit card? How long have you both had this living arrangement?

Just trying to understand here.

You have this situation in place where you pretty much have the kids, and you want to file for divorce -- you would like the courts to order you to pay less than what you're currently paying?

[ForeverDad]

What is "documentation"?  It could be something as simple as a diary, weekly minder, log book, etc.  (In 2013 when I was in family court and questions were asked of me, I asked to refer to my 'notes', each weekly minder covering an entire year, and it was granted.)  The point is this, vague = hearsay, details = documentation.

For example, if you fear she will make lies and exaggerated claims concerning where the kids were and who did what, you could find many ways to document.  Take group photos with the kids each evening.  Write down which stories or story portions you read to the kids.  Write down your dinner menu with the kids, kids with you when shopping, drop offs and pick ups if using daycare, visits to parks, movies watched together, when they were sick and you cared for them, that you were the one to take them to the pediatrician and other doctors, etc.  Of course, court won't look at every detail, it doesn't have the time, but having a solid history with documenting details is vastly better than vague verbal claims.

Since 2006 I've been buying weekly minder calendars, containing both a page per month for overview and a page per week, bought every single year.  (Time for me to buy another one for 2016.)  Just to be able to defend myself and document the reality.  And this sort of documentation has helped me and many others.  It can and will help you too.

So, yes, you do have a ton of documentation at your fingertips!  If you haven't written down the details yet, then start now and look back and nail down what details you can remember or reconstruct from doctor statements, etc.

[Lostinkitimat]

i can relate to your fear of high payments.

8 months ago my x tried to take me to court for 7k per month.

we settled at 2230 child and 2500 spousal. a total of 4730 per month. i was sick to my stomach also i have the kids overnight every second night and sometimes multiple days in a row.

to make things worse all the income was based on a construction boom. i was working 70 hrs a week during that time frame and the project i was on was coming to an end.

if i only work 40 hrs a week i take home around 6200 per month still have to pay the 4730?

that being said its been 9 months now and i have been easily able to maintain payments even have a few months buffer if things get really slow? next problem is this year i have made even more money fortunately the only thing she can change is the child support. so i may have to pay 5k per month next yr.

i was so angry and scared at first because i had to chase overtime and work hrs. which meant less time with my children. but i would have done it any way always have does it hurt yes does it take planning,saving,budgeting yes but it can be done.

[jac8949]

jac,

Are you currently paying her bills? To clarify -- is she living in an apartment separate from where you live, and you're paying her rent, phone, utility, and credit card? How long have you both had this living arrangement?

Just trying to understand here.

You have this situation in place where you pretty much have the kids, and you want to file for divorce -- you would like the courts to order you to pay less than what you're currently paying?

Extremely important... .there is no divorce.  We were never married.  There is no such thing as palimony in Maryland. As far as I know I dont have any obligation other than child support. 

So the answer is yes to all the questions above... .I am supporting her 100%.  She lives in a separate apartment.  I pay my mortgage and her rent.  The lease is in her name.  We have been separated for 18 months.

When we first separated, the deal was that I would support her up by paying her living expenses until she finishes her RN program (Dec 2017).

I decided this week that arrangement must stop and I simply need to pay what I am supposed to pay.   

[scraps66]

There is no need to change your job before seeing a lawyer -- you'll have attorney-client privilege. Some lawyers will be the ones advising you to do exactly what you are proposing if they think it will protect you.

If you can, talk to several lawyers. Consultations may run $300/hour. Have a list of questions you ask each one and ask them how they would strategize given your goals and objectives.

You don't have to explain why you would never get primary custody, but in general, if your kids are with her majority time, you'll be footing a bigger chunk of child support.

If you have the kids 100% of the time right now and she's entirely checked out, you may have a compelling case to get majority time, in which case she would be expected to contribute child support.

You can only glean so much from the website calculators -- your lawyer may have a strategy developed from years of experience that allows you to compute things in a favorable way.

How old are the kids?

You are completely wrong.  I have run the calculations over and over.  If I get the highest majority of overnights that I can get... ie 65%, I pay $900 a month. 

One other thing I learned, that I was doing and thought for good reason, that I spoke in "you" statements too often due to the fact that, given my ex's obviously and willfully abysmal behavior, I felt as if I was warranted speaking from a higher level.  Maybe I was, but the use of "you" statements is certainly a trigger when communicating with a BP.  I learned that in our very first couple's therapy session - my ex, she STILL uses the you statements without pause.

Good that the apartment is in her name so she can't hold you hostage. 

What I learned over the years with the CS calcs, many of mine were incorrect.  Done by the court, by my attorney, etc. and on many, many occasions I became frustrated with not being able to consistently reproduce the calculations.  It helps to get the calc from a reputable source.  This is something to stay on top of as things move forward...

[david]

You will probably need at least six months of documentation. Writing everything down in a journal or something similar as others have said should be good enough. Times/dates/etc need to be written down for each entry. Example: Date. Kids got up at X am. Fed them XYZ. brief explanation of their day. Kids went to bed at X pm. Read bedtime story XYZ.

I would think a minimum of three months would be needed for the courts. Having the three months prior to filing in the courts would probably be a good strategy to show a pattern and possible change in pattern.

Talking to an attorney would be my first step after documentation. If the attorney says to stop paying her bills then follow that advice. You may have to send her a certified letter telling her when the money stops. Talk to an attorney first.

[jac8949]

i can relate to your fear of high payments.

8 months ago my x tried to take me to court for 7k per month.

we settled at 2230 child and 2500 spousal. a total of 4730 per month. i was sick to my stomach also i have the kids overnight every second night and sometimes multiple days in a row.

to make things worse all the income was based on a construction boom. i was working 70 hrs a week during that time frame and the project i was on was coming to an end.

if i only work 40 hrs a week i take home around 6200 per month still have to pay the 4730?

that being said its been 9 months now and i have been easily able to maintain payments even have a few months buffer if things get really slow? next problem is this year i have made even more money fortunately the only thing she can change is the child support. so i may have to pay 5k per month next yr.

i was so angry and scared at first because i had to chase overtime and work hrs. which meant less time with my children. but i would have done it any way always have does it hurt yes does it take planning,saving,budgeting yes but it can be done.

None of what you are saying above makes any sense.  If this is the case... .if this is what you actually owe... you are talking to the wrong attorney.  We live one life.  That's it. One and only one.  Why would you worl your ass off to piss money away?  

The bottom line is this.  Child support and Alimony is a matter of civil law.  Not criminal law.  I would fight to the bitter end for what I believe.  In my state, the most that they can do is suspend my drivers license for unpaid child support.  I would simply refuse to pay and claim disability due to mental illness.  

No.  Just say no.  Refuse.  Become a conscientious objector.  Hand cuff your self to the tree.

[ForeverDad]

Alimony these days is seldom lifetime, generally it's viewed as an aid for transition out of the marriage.  If you've been together or married for 8-10 years then it's possible you may be ordered to pay some short term alimony for the medium length relationship, though usually that's after the final decree.  In my divorce we use a 2 months for every year pattern to determine the length of payments.  So I was married for over 15 years and paid alimony for only 3 years.  Typically no one pays alimony for more than half the marriage and often it is much less, depends on your state and all the circumstances.  But during the divorce process, can be a year or more, for me it was nearly two years, I wasn't told to pay 'spousal support', not sure why, though I did pay child support retroactive back to the date I filed for divorce.

For us here facing a looming divorce, the bark is horrendous and scary but the bite isn't nearly as bad as our fears were.  I feel sure that when you demonstrate to the court that you're a capable and deeply involved father, things will go much better than you fear.

Oh, one more thing.  Court won't care, at least not officially unless you live in an 'at fault' divorce state, whether she's sleeping with a couple professors or even the entire faculty.  She's an adult, they're adults, family court is very unlikely to hold that against her.  It will categorize that as adult behavior, court is far more concerned with parenting behavior.  (Sorry, family court views morals, or lack thereof, very differently than it did 50-60 years ago.)  I mention this because the court might not look well upon you if you harp on her infidelities too much, it may conclude you're blaming, stuck and not ready to Move On.  Ask your lawyer for guidance regarding what concerns and what doesn't concern the local court.

On the other hand... .Her choosing to leave the children with you most of the time is Huge, Very Huge.  Presenting that History to the court from the very first hearing (especially the hearing setting the temp order) is crucial.  Fathers typically have an uphill struggle since many court default preferences to Mothers.  Frankly, few of us Fathers here had majority time because our spouses wandered away.  As upside down as this sounds, view it as a Gift from her.  The long-standing pattern of majority time does mean a lot, don't Gift it away.

[jac8949]

Alimony these days is seldom lifetime, generally it's viewed as an aid for transition out of the marriage.  If you've been together or married for 8-10 years then it's possible you may be ordered to pay some short term alimony for the medium length relationship, though usually that's after the final decree.  In my divorce we use a 2 months for every year pattern to determine the length of payments.  So I was married for over 15 years and paid alimony for only 3 years.  Typically no one pays alimony for more than half the marriage and often it is much less, depends on your state and all the circumstances.  But during the divorce process, can be a year or more, for me it was nearly two years, I wasn't told to pay 'spousal support', not sure why, though I did pay child support retroactive back to the date I filed for divorce.

For us here facing a looming divorce, the bark is horrendous and scary but the bite isn't nearly as bad as our fears were.  I feel sure that when you demonstrate to the court that you're a capable and deeply involved father, things will go much better than you fear.

Oh, one more thing.  Court won't care, at least not officially unless you live in an 'at fault' divorce state, if she's sleeping with a couple professors or even the entire faculty.  She's an adult, they're adults, family court is very unlikely to hold that against her.  (Sorry, the court views morals, or lack thereof, very differently than it did 50-60 years ago.)  I mention this because the court might not look well upon you if you harp on her infidelities too much, it may conclude you're blaming, stuck and not ready to Move On.  Ask your lawyer for guidance regarding what concerns and what doesn't concern the local court.

On the other hand... .Her choosing to leave the children with you most of the time is Huge, Very Huge.  Presenting that History to the court from the very first hearing (especially the hearing setting the temp order) is crucial.  Fathers typically have an uphill struggle since many court default preferences to Mothers.  Frankly, few of us Fathers here had majority time because our spouses wandered away.  As upside down as this sounds, view it as a Gift from her.  The long-standing pattern of majority time does mean a lot, don't Gift it away.

One of the things that I have looked at however is the university policy... .he could be fired for this.

Additionally, I have his teenage children's facebook profiles... .and snap chat info and his wifes work number and email address.

If I have to pay her money to sleep around... .I will take action.  

There is no divorce.  This is just a child support issue.  

[livednlearned]

There is no divorce.  This is just a child support issue.  

Are you paying her anything right now?

[jac8949]

There is no divorce.  This is just a child support issue.  

Are you paying her anything right now?

Well as of Saturday I informed her that I am done paying. 

But I have been paying her approximately $1,400 per month for 18 months.  I dont pay her directly.  I pay her bills.  I would not ever trust that she would actually pay her rent if I gave her the money.