If 28% of the population were disordered...

[Moselle]

... .why do we take things personally that come out of their mouths.

We interact with them every day. It's almost one in three. Think about working at the office. In my office I have 3 out of 16, a little healthier than the 28% stat,  and those three are able to affect my work day when they walk past and have some insensitive or snide comment to make. Actually the whole office is affected by these three. When they are absent the office comes alive. People start cooperating and working.

How can we co-exist with these, sometimes difficult people?

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey Moselle-

To start by digging a little into that stat, the quote is "An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older or about one in four adults suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year" as stated by the Kim Foundation.  And the 'diagnosable mental disorders' they're referring to include PTSD, obsessive-compulsive disorder, social phobia, eating disorders, ADHD, on and on, so it's not a stretch that almost a third of us has one of those.  And then they go on to say "about 6 percent suffer from a serious mental illness".  And then of course, as we've learned here, the percentage of people considered diagnosable with BPD is less than 2%.

And why can't everyone be just like us?  A question asked more than once in the world, and what is weird anyway?  What if there is no normal, just that the folks we consider 'normal' are just weird in the same way we are?  Mental illness and mental health are subjective and relative, open to the whims of group consensus.  And letting my freak flag fly is still a favorite pastime.

Anyway, kinda went off... .

Yes, some people are difficult, and some of those seem like they're being difficult on purpose.  What can we learn from them?  Why have they arrived in our lives?  How will this serve us?  Musings... .

[enlighten me]

That's 26% with a diagnosable disorder. How many others don't make the grade as they only have 4 of the nine traits for BPD or whatever disorder?

Add to this other things such as co-dependency that a lot hear either have or have traits of.

I doubt there is one person on the planet that doesn't have at least one trait from something or other.

Makes me think of the post office scene in men in black two when everyone he thought was human was actually a different alien.

[FannyB]

Hi Moselle

Recently went to my HR department to see if there was any specialist training available for managers having to deal with 'high conflict individuals' due to the proliferation of them in my place of work. Ironically, they sent me to talk to one of their staff who is the embodiment of a high conflict personality. I did manage to see the funny side. 

Fanny

[Moselle]

Thanks for your responses folks. I think we're agreed then, there are lots and lots of people our there with disorders or traits of disorders. Sometimes we marry one, sometimes we share an office with one, sometimes we are one   

How do we accept that they are there, live safely around them, and not feel triggered emotionally by their behaviours?

[once removed]

How do we accept that they are there

how do we not  ? not much choice in that regard.

i guess personally, my emphasis isnt so much on mental illness or traits of certain mental illnesses, but certain personality types. i have known people with various mental illness, various traits, and gotten along with them just fine. certain personality types and me (this applies to everyone) are more likely to clash. what triggers me are things like: what i perceive to be disrespect, carelessness, bossiness... .lots of things. hell, sometimes my gripes are far more shallow than that.

one of the things my BPD relationship taught me is i can only change myself, not anyone else, and that if i dont like my circumstances, i probably either have to be the one to change them, or find a better way toward accepting them. that can mean anything depending on the situation: being better at saying no, having firm boundaries, expressing myself authentically, being assertive... .

its similar to learning, as a child, about strangers, and their potential dangers. you learn how to stay safe and protect yourself; stranger danger will always be a reality.

[enlighten me]

Thanks for your responses folks. I think we're agreed then, there are lots and lots of people our there with disorders or traits of disorders. Sometimes we marry one, sometimes we share an office with one, sometimes we are one   

How do we accept that they are there, live safely around them, and not feel triggered emotionally by their behaviours?

Ive got a good friend who is bi polar, another couple with PTSD. I myself have several different things going on from a couple of mild OCD tendencies, some co dependant tendencies and maybe a couple of narcissistic ones. I don't need to be avoided in fact my friends think of me as one of the nicest guys they know.

Im sure if we are all honest then we probably all have something going on. The only people I know that would deny this are my two uBPD exs.

As once removed said its more about avoiding personality types. The angry psycho in the bar who can kick off, the selfish narcissist who thinks the world revolves around them, the flirt, the loudmouth etc etc

[Moselle]

how do we not  ? not much choice in that regard.

.

I think it is a choice . I needed to have wake up call to admit that my wife was seriously disordered. Now every 4th person? Lol

I'm curious about how other manage these people.

[once removed]

personality disorders are largely "invisible" to most people but for those that know them intimately. for example, i cant see traits of borderline personality disorder really even being part of the picture in the work place. i can see certain common borderline behaviors being a problem in some work places, but not unique to BPD, just immaturity in general. youve always been around people with mental illness, youre just more aware of it now. what kind of behaviors from others make you tick or get under your skin? are your responses too rigid or not rigid enough?

i know in my case i have found that with certain people, theyll get under my skin early, and im not rigid enough. as a result, i get frustrated, and that frustration builds, and every single thing that person does will really drive me crazy. happened about a year ago, built up for months. one day he was over stepping his boundaries and also factually uninformed. i basically told him "uh huh. i hear you. im gonna keep doing what im doing." he largely backed off (trying to be an authority when he is not is still a huge part of his personality) and i get along with him fine, and the stuff he does i just shrug off and dont take personally; like most people around him. self awareness and seeing our role in the dynamic goes a long way. 

i have a few takeaways. i do need to learn to be more assertive with these kinds of people from the beginning. i need to take things less personally. through experience i can better spot these types or other types i clash with and then proceed. probably ten or fifteen years ago i would have been more eager to get into a confrontation. a given situation can call for an aggressive, assertive, or passive response, but i feel most confident in how i deal with others when im true to myself.

[Skip]

The estimate comes from two epidemiologic surveys: the Epidemiologic Catchment Area (ECA) study of the early 1980s and the National Comorbidity Survey (NCS) of the early 1990s. Those surveys defined mental illness according to the prevailing editions of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. The surveys estimate that during a 1-year period, 22 to 23 percent of the U.S. adult population—or 44 million people—have diagnosable mental disorders, according to reliable, established criteria.

In general, 19 percent of the adult U.S. population have a mental disorder alone (in 1 year); 3 percent have both mental and addictive disorders; and 6 percent have addictive disorders alone. Consequently, about 28 to 30 percent of the population have either a mental or addictive disorder (Regier et al., 1993b; Kessler et al., 1998).

[thisworld]

I personally think it's a positive thing that disordered people are functional. I also believe that the problems they cause in the workplace can be solved by proper work place procedures (evaluations, feedback from colleagues, grievance, equality whatnot) and applying them devotedly in every case.

They say ASPD is common among CEOs and today's corporations act like someone with ASPD anyway.

I also think, interaction brings out some behaviours. When I was younger and more vulnerable to narcs due to my FOO origin issues, my boss (who was very friendly and positive with some others) became an angry narc with me (I was a young high achiever). When I resigned, she organized a big dinner at a posh place and confessed in front of everybody that she never treated anyone as badly. I really felt so honored, you can't imagine  

[Should I stay or...]

The estimate comes from two epidemiologic surveys: the Epidemiologic Catchment Area (ECA) study of the early 1980s and the National Comorbidity Survey (NCS) of the early 1990s. Those surveys defined mental illness according to the prevailing editions of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. The surveys estimate that during a 1-year period, 22 to 23 percent of the U.S. adult population—or 44 million people—have diagnosable mental disorders, according to reliable, established criteria.

If these are estimates that are at least 25 years old and they have been diagnosed, how many more can we add to this survey that are undiagnosed 25 years later... .?