Thoughts of "will the next one make it?"

[thisworld]

(I'm guessing sex, since she was quick to point out to me how he kept telling her how 'hot' she was while they were on their date). 

I honestly think she is triangulating. That "hot" sounds like it was inserted there for a reason. He might have said it, but I don't think triangulation talk is something to rely on. In either case, being triangulated like this will not allow you to feel anything but the struggle you are feeling now, will it? It affects us at the beginning of our healing. It causes our progress to regress back to these difficult thoughts I think. (But maybe that's how it affects me only.)

[Lonely_Astro]

(I'm guessing sex, since she was quick to point out to me how he kept telling her how 'hot' she was while they were on their date). 

I honestly think she is triangulating. That "hot" sounds like it was inserted there for a reason. He might have said it, but I don't think triangulation talk is something to rely on. In either case, being triangulated like this will not allow you to feel anything but the struggle you are feeling now, will it? It affects us at the beginning of our healing. It causes our progress to regress back to these difficult thoughts I think. (But maybe that's how it affects me only.)

I believe it was fully inserted there to make me feel jealous.  How it came about was I asked her about her date with him.  She kept saying it wasn't a date, just a dinner with a friend to vent about all the bad stuff going on in their life (ha!).  I asked her if she had gotten dressed up for it and all that.  Once answered, I said "so, a date, then."  She rebuffed it that it wasn't a date but then she said "but he did keep telling me about how hot I was or how beautiful I am" and then she pretended to be disgusted that he had 'tricked' her into a date.  Funny, he 'tricked' her into another that she neglected to tell me about until she had let it slip later in conversation that she had been out with him one day after work and on a Sunday.  She also was quick to tell me about that they had been texting each other on a steady basis.  But, hey, they aren't 'together' and they're 'just friends', right? 

Honestly, she has been triangulating this entire year.  She admitted to me that early on she had went back to her husband (M), but knew it wasn't going to work because the whole time she was with him she wanted to only be with me.  She was quick to point out it was in the very beginning of when we started and that it was before we had became physical and that she wasn't physical with him at all (she knows how sore of subject that is for me, but I also know that's a lie that she told me to feel better).  So, at one point, I was the other guy (unbeknownst).  Then, she was triangulating with me and a guy she dated for a month in June (B) behind my back.  Then she triangulated again with M and me due to 'divorce stuff'.  Now, its R and me.  Really, I don't think DBT is doing a darn thing for her, to be blunt.  I suspect she'll drop out soon (if she hasn't already and is just telling me she's still going to keep me thinking 'good' of her).  She also said today, again, that they weren't together, didn't see each other over the weekend, and have barely spoken since she told him she was busy the other night and wouldn't see him.

I have this almost irrational fear that somehow R will make it all better, but look at what I just wrote.  Can he make it better?  Will they even have a r/s or will it just be sexual based (after all, I've fully rejected her, so now she can have 'clear conscious' to do whatever with R because she would justify it by saying we were over if it ever came up).  I also feel sure thats why she made the comment to me the other day that she couldn't and wouldn't make any promises to me and that I didn't deserve to be hurt (i.e., "I want you to hang around for me while I do what I want and if you don't like it, leave" was how I interpreted that).  She's fully planning something with R (or has already done something).  It wouldn't surprise me.  She made me jump through hoops to be physical with her, but she'll let anyone else in her bed at the drop of a hat, it seems (if this is true or not, I don't know... .I can't trust her word at this point regardless.  I feel this entire year was based on one giant lie).

I guess when you boil it all away, my fear is this:  her divorce is final soon and R is a "free man" and readily available as a clean slate.  He has every opportunity if he wants it to have a full life with her, even if she is telling me "it's not like that".  She's medicated and in DBT.  If ever there were an opportunity for success, this is it.

[C.Stein]

She kept saying it wasn't a date, just a dinner with a friend to vent about all the bad stuff going on in their life (ha!).  I asked her if she had gotten dressed up for it and all that.  Once answered, I said "so, a date, then."  She rebuffed it that it wasn't a date but then she said "but he did keep telling me about how hot I was or how beautiful I am" and then she pretended to be disgusted that he had 'tricked' her into a date.  Funny, he 'tricked' her into another that she neglected to tell me about until she had let it slip later in conversation that she had been out with him one day after work and on a Sunday.  She also was quick to tell me about that they had been texting each other on a steady basis.  But, hey, they aren't 'together' and they're 'just friends', right?

This is something that I never understand.  First, we are "just friends".  When there is obviously something more going on saying something like this is an insult to our intelligence.

Second, the feigned innocence and naivety.  Oh, I didn't know that was going on ... .etc ... .  Again, not only an insult to our intelligence but an insult to theirs as well.  :)o you really think we could believe you are THAT naive.  

One thing my ex did when we first started dating was she would "dress to kill" at times then go out and do stuff around town.  Then she would comment on how guys looked at her or approached her.  What is your purpose in telling me this and what did you expect to happen?  She would feign innocence when I told her that dressing like that is essentially an I'm available invitation for men to look at you "like that" and to approach you.  I believe she said something like "oh, I had no idea".    Really?  You are in your mid thirties and you don't know how dressing a certain way affects how men look at you and treat you?  

I told her on many occasions that I didn't care how she dressed.  I also asked her to consider what message she is sending when she dresses like that (to other men and me) and what were her real reasons for doing it.   Part of her reason I believe was her poor self image/confidence and part of it was because I believe she craves/wants/needs attention from other men.  I think it made her feel good about herself, made her feel beautiful and desirable when guys would look at her "that way" ... .and all the guys and gals here know exactly what "that way" is.   Personally when she dressed like that it made me a little uncomfortable to go out with her, especially when I would watch her scanning the room to see who was checking her out.  

I always found her the most beautiful when she was just herself not some made up sex object.   It didn't help that her BF before me encouraged her to dress like that, probably because he was insecure himself and didn't feel she was good enough looking to be "on his arm" just as she was.

Anyhow, this "I'm so naive" type of reaction to something they do is very frustrating at a minimum.  Not only do they damn well know what they are doing, but to play that game and to tell us in order to elicit some type of emotional response is manipulative at best.  I also don't believe this is an exclusive BPD thing either.  What have others here experienced with their pwBPD?

[Lonely_Astro]

She kept saying it wasn't a date, just a dinner with a friend to vent about all the bad stuff going on in their life (ha!).  I asked her if she had gotten dressed up for it and all that.  Once answered, I said "so, a date, then."  She rebuffed it that it wasn't a date but then she said "but he did keep telling me about how hot I was or how beautiful I am" and then she pretended to be disgusted that he had 'tricked' her into a date.  Funny, he 'tricked' her into another that she neglected to tell me about until she had let it slip later in conversation that she had been out with him one day after work and on a Sunday.  She also was quick to tell me about that they had been texting each other on a steady basis.  But, hey, they aren't 'together' and they're 'just friends', right?

This is something that I never understand.  First, we are "just friends".  When there is obviously something more going on saying something like this is an insult to our intelligence.

Second, the feigned innocence and naivety.  Oh, I didn't know that was going on ... .etc ... .  Again, not only an insult to our intelligence but an insult to theirs as well.  :)o you really think we could believe you are THAT naive.  

One thing my ex did when we first started dating was she would "dress to kill" at times then go out and do stuff around town.  Then she would comment on how guys looked at her or approached her.  What is your purpose in telling me this and what did you expect to happen?  She would feign innocence when I told her that dressing like that is essentially an I'm available invitation for men to look at you "like that" and to approach you.  I believe she said something like "oh, I had no idea".    Really?  You are in your mid thirties and you don't know how dressing a certain way affects how men look at you and treat you?  

I told her on many occasions that I didn't care how she dressed.  I also asked her to consider what message she is sending when she dresses like that (to other men and me) and what were her real reasons for doing it.   Part of her reason I believe was her poor self image/confidence and part of it was because I believe she craves/wants/needs attention from other men.  I think it made her feel good about herself, made her feel beautiful and desirable when guys would look at her "that way" ... .and all the guys and gals here know exactly what "that way" is.   Personally when she dressed like that it made me a little uncomfortable to go out with her, especially when I would watch her scanning the room to see who was checking her out.  

I always found her the most beautiful when she was just herself not some made up sex object.   It didn't help that her BF before me encouraged her to dress like that, probably because he was insecure himself and didn't feel she was good enough looking to be "on his arm" just as she was.

Anyhow, this "I'm so naive" type of reaction to something they do is very frustrating at a minimum.  Not only do they damn well know what they are doing, but to play that game and to tell us in order to elicit some type of emotional response is manipulative at best.  I also don't believe this is an exclusive BPD thing either.  What have others here experienced with their pwBPD?

Mine was/is the same way.  She'll dress up somewhat provocative (i.e. low cut shirt to show off her breast) and then 'get upset' when all the guys stare at her breast.  Or, she'll wear a little sundress and boots and she'll wonder why all the guys are looking at her legs.  The list goes on and on.  Sometimes she'll show up to work with no makeup but by lunch she'll have put it all on because she wasn't getting any attention.  It actually got to the point where the CEO instituted a dress code in her department because she was becoming such a distraction (he did so by saying that she wasn't dressing appropriate for a workplace setting).

In a time of lucidity I asked her if she realized what she was doing.  She smiled at me coyly and said she knew exactly what she was doing.  I asked her why she did it if it bothered her and she said she didn't know.  So, yes, its a game that they are fully aware of, much like her being 'tricked' into two dates with R.  I believe she minimized her association with R ("just friends" "just dinner" because we were in limbo on where we were and didn't want to be judged by me for stepping out.

Even at the end, when we talked last Friday and she came clean on a lot of stuff, she was still minimizing what had happened between all the players in her game (of course, I was the only one she wanted... .yeah, sure).  We were having a rather candid conversation yesterday when she said that I needed to do what was best for me (aka, best for her) and that my child needed me and she knew I still loved my ex (hinting that I should attempt to work it out with her).  She also went on to say that I would never trust her, no matter how good she was.  Of course, I should've pointed out that if she would start doing some 'good' for a change, maybe I would grow to trust her again.  But, honestly, her and I both know she'll never be capable of that.

[shatra]

Lonely wrote---I honestly think she is triangulating. That "hot" sounds like it was inserted there for a reason.

---SOunds like she wanted to make you jealous... .with triangulating, I didn't realize it can be done undercover. Ii thought it meant openly involving a third person (another lover, or a frieind, relative, even a therapist) into the one-on-one relationship... it's either done ti dilute closeness between the BPD and partner (since closeness scares BPD), or to manipulate a jealous reaction by partner, or to get a "second opinion" and have the third person "back up" what the BPD says... .

    I see now people are saying the BPD can triangulate (and "bring in" a 3rd person) without openly telling the partner about it, it's still triangulating

[Lonely_Astro]

Lonely wrote---I honestly think she is triangulating. That "hot" sounds like it was inserted there for a reason.

---SOunds like she wanted to make you jealous... .with triangulating, I didn't realize it can be done undercover. Ii thought it meant openly involving a third person (another lover, or a frieind, relative, even a therapist) into the one-on-one relationship... it's either done ti dilute closeness between the BPD and partner (since closeness scares BPD), or to manipulate a jealous reaction by partner, or to get a "second opinion" and have the third person "back up" what the BPD says... .

    I see now people are saying the BPD can triangulate (and "bring in" a 3rd person) without openly telling the partner about it, it's still triangulating

That's the way that I understood it: they can triangulate without the other parties knowing it.  There has been multiple triangles involving me, her, and another party this entire year.  Sometimes it was M, B, N, and even her mom.  Now it's R.  Her and R may (or may not) have just started, but she's already cheating him and doesn't even see it that way.  After all, she's still in some form of contact with me (as recently as yesterday telling me how much she loves me and how she always will even if we can't be together).  So, her fledging r/s isn't fair to R.  She hasn't even taken the time to mourn the loss of us and she's already starting something with R.

Still. Thinking about her sleeping with him.   . Emotions. Ugh.