My story.

[NCEA]

Well, like all stories I'm sure, it's hard to know where to start.

I guess where we met - in Greece, 3 years ago. I've met her and her friend outside of a vacation house. We spoke the three of us, and as they are French and are very open sexually, we ended up in sort of a 3some. I slept with her friend, but not with her, she watched us and kissed me, but no sex. At the time she was in a relationship that was falling apart. Years later I'll understand what it meant.

Three years later I'm living in Argentina for a couple of months and post on my FB "who wants to visit me?" . We only wrote each other a few times in these past 3 years but now she wrote that she needs a vacation and "sort of a in a break from the boyfriend" and wanted to come. I said yes.

She came over to visit me and we spent 9 days together and "fell in love". She went back to Europe and started love bombing me, and we went into a long distance relationship.

The thing with both of us, is that we were very similar in being "free spirits". I'm single and I've been traveling for almost 5 years now, so I do not have long "regular" closed relationships. I have short relationships where I travel, or I go into longer relationships but they're always open. I'm ALWAYS honest about this, about who I am, and about what they can expect from me.

She, on the other hand, lives in Paris and does not travel. But here it's where it becomes "interesting". When we met she said she "has a boyfriend who doesn't know we broke up yet" and told me that she has 5 (FIVE) lovers, all married.

The relationship she had before that was a "double" relationship, she described it as "living a lie". I know of other past relationships, almost always with married man who are not available for real intimacy.

She was very open sexually and had told me that she organized twice orgies among her friends ("I just said 'why don't we all have sex?' and started kissing someone" she organized for herself a double penetration and other fantasies most people just keep to fantasy world and not real life. As an open minded person I thought that was "cool" and didn't really think it was a problem.

So she was very open sexually which exited me and her stories of her alcoholic mother and divorced parents ("my father never wanted me" made me pity her and I hoped I could "fix" her.

When we went into this relationship she told me that she started breaking up from all her lovers, and apparently she did, one after the other.

So from the moment she left after our 9 days together and for the next 6 months, we could meet only few times (maybe 20 days in total) because my travel schedule was set from before we met and I couldn't change it / didn't think of changing it. I loved her but it took me time to realize how much I did (I started feeling it when she started withdrawing, after the "love bombing" about two months into it) .

At one point in the relationship, after we went cool for 2 weeks, I surprised visited her in Paris just to discover that her ex is moving in with her within 3 days (he was living in Berlin at the time) , "to try to make it work" (he was the main person in the triangle, or was it me?) so we spent one last passionate night together and I left.

Then after 10 days I checked up on her and it turned out that they keep fighting, she hates him being there, and that they're breaking up for good, and that he is not moving to Paris for her.

I waited a few more days, called her up and said that my traveling plans are ending soon (within 6 weeks) and that I would move to Paris and rent an apartment, so we could finally be together. She was happy about it and everything was OK for a while, but communication in that part of the relationship was hot/cold and she kept playing games with me. Later she said she was envious of my traveled and jealous of me. But she never said anything.

Finally 2-3 weeks before me moving to Paris she helped me pick up an apartment over Airbnb. She said she can't wait for me to come and I was looking forward to it.

1 week before me moving, when I already had a ticket and the apartment booked - she suddenly wrote me that she "met someone" / "didn't feel like this in years" and that "she's in love, it's like we know each other from a different life" - the same words she used for me, 6 months before. He's 45, she's 32 and they only spent a few hours a day for 4 days when she wrote me this. He's from Milan. Again long distance relationship.

So I had to cancel my trip to Paris.

As the relationship was open it was hard for me to see where the red lines are because they were none. It was obvious for me that we love each other / have intimacy but as we're both free spirits and not looking for something serious so we could separate our love and sex with others. I actually could do it but apparently she didn't.

I recognize from the literature a lot of what was going on between us, the love bombing, the withdrawal, the games, hot/cold, the constant presence of other man around, texting them, telling me about her previous affairs etc. It didn't jump as a red alarm because sex was such a big part of who she and me are.

She often spoke about "her monster" and "afraid of being herself". I knew what she meant. She was extremely moody and active sexually, a real femme fatale. She got me into BDSM, liked to be spit on, wanted a golden shower (which I refused). She spoke about liking to humiliate men. (WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING?)

In other words - she only went into relationships with married man / unavailable man / long distance / avoids intimacy (was happy I came to Paris until 1 week before and found a way to cancel it, tried back her ex for 10 days and then kicked him out) / likes to humiliate / hurt and be humiliated.

I can say that in my travels / relationships I've never hurt anyone. I've only received "thank you" emails from people who I touched, including from her, for me opening people up to the idea of intimacy / love but without the constrains of a "closed" relationship.

I lost faith in monogamy after a failed 9 years relationship that went from 22 to 31.

Now I'm hurt and feel awful for how it ended, she canceling me out 1 week before I moved to Paris for her. Since the withdrawal of her love bombing I was just crazy about her, madly in love with my "soul mate". For the past 3-4 month I'd wake up every morning at 5 am, just to see if she wrote. I was always kind and loving and wanting to be good to her. She would play the whole hot/cold game... .until it ended the way it did. Now I feel awful for weeks already.

I understand this is a very different story, still I thought I'd share it. I have no doubt she's on the spectrum of a class B disorder, BPD with signs of psychopathy.  She also had psychosis attack once, we were in bed together and she started crying, saying the walls were moving and the room became huge. I remember thinking "she's crazy, get away ASAP" but didn't. I had this stupid line in my head "you don't decide who you fall in love with... ." so I kept staying. Now I complement this with "... .but love isn't enough".

I wish they'd teach this stuff in school.

[Concerns]

Cultural morays definitely play a part in how we conduct ourselves in relationships. A relationship is a relationship irrespective of the labels we either choose or refuse put on them

I think, coming from an open-hippie lifestyle, Love is never free. It always has ties. Were all of the people you had open relationships with single?

Even at the beginning of an open relationship, it's still akin to the honeymoon phase:great sex, what seems like more intimacy, and good communication.

The mask of sex, what I call it, covers our rationality. And the BPD uses this, either consciously or unconsciously, to emotionally hook the non's empathy centers and we invest in the relationship. Hence, why we feel so worked and hurt when things fall apart. They present an ideal we fall for. But as we all know here:masks come off.

It seems like she was just gaming you. It seems like she was gaming alot of men. Whether she's BPD, narcissist, or somewhere on the spectrum, I'd like to explore this idea of sado/masochism co-morbidity with people on this spectrum. From my own life, my instinct really tells me that my wife enjoys, on some level, hurting people. It's something about the pain they cause releases endorphins. Or the pain they either force on themselves or others has a pleasurable reaction in their minds. Once the pleasure(from pain) stops then they move onto the next person to start the cycle over again.  

[Joem678]

You know what it sounds like, and it was a question of yours, but that ex of here is he main person in the triangulation.  It also sounds that she sought attention from people who she knew would never be serious (married men, LDRs).   I can also guarantee that this guy of hers does not know her how the rest of you know her.  I have had this similar experience where my wife selects similar situations.

[Sunfl0wer]

From my own life, my instinct really tells me that my wife enjoys, on some level, hurting people. It's something about the pain they cause releases endorphins. Or the pain they either force on themselves or others has a pleasurable reaction in their minds. Once the pleasure(from pain) stops then they move onto the next person to start the cycle over again.   

Persons with BPD have boundary and identity issues.  I wonder if what you are seeing as a 'pleasurable reaction' to them hurting another is actually an extreme means for them to feel validated... .and gives them a sense of relief that they are not alone in their pain.

For example: If I am struggling in my relationship and happen to watch a love story which seems to capture my exact struggle, I feel validated.  I feel a cathartic release of my built up emotion due to being able to see the pain of the actors and feel validated by it.  Sometimes I can more easily empathize with the actors than myself, as I can be harsh on myself... .so there is a relief for me to tap into this pain.

Also, pwBPD tend to use others to co regulate emotion.  It must feel invalidating when their partner is happy, yet they are sad... .especially when they are so enmeshed and do not know where they begin and the partner ends.

[Concerns]

I wonder if what you are seeing as a 'pleasurable reaction' to them hurting another is actually an extreme means for them to feel validated

I think this could certainly be true on some level. When she asks for something she knows she shouldn't buy  or when one of her actions causes me emotional pain, she gets this tiny, wry, smirky grin on her face. Like she has gotten one over on me. It's plainly visible. My instinct tells me that she is enjoying seeing the hurt. Maybe its "now you know how I feel" but it comes out when she seems satisfied in obtaining her accomplishment. In relation to the OP, I was interested in this idea that since their internal life is certainly painful then the outward manifestation of pain in others is gratifying. I can totally see it as self-validation but it seems pretty sinister sometimes.  

[NCEA]

She wasn't playing me, she was playing everyone including herself, that's what people who are 3 years old mentally do.

First two months her loyalty was for me but then the love bombing stopped and from that point, who knows.

I'm in day 72 of NC, and I have no plans to ever be in contact with her - but once: one day before her birth day I'm going to send her a nice update about how I'm doing, it will start warm and forgiving but progressively will talk about her traits and me knowing what she is. She has NO idea about it... .but it will be so detailed and all based on things SHE told me, not a matter of interpretation... .Who the hell says that they have a "monster" for example? Or that they like to humiliate men? Who the hell had only married lovers ? Five? Living a double life? All these things together... .Look I have no problem with sexual promiscuity, but when it's combined with everything else and at 32 she didn't have a single normal adult relationship... .She's rotten to the bone. Disgusting. It will be a lovely birthday, I'm sure.  

I'm just going to make sure she knows that it has a name.

I know, not very mature but ___ it, if she's living like this her whole life , I can do something like this once.

[NCEA]

Oh and the people I'm involved with are ALWAYS single .

I'd sleep ONCE with someone married / with a boyfriend but I'd NEVER go into a relationship with a married girl, that's corrupting and disgusting.

[Concerns]

Hi, NCEA. She could very well be playing everyone. I honestly wouldn't bother with the note. These people, it seems and including my wife in this group, leave a trail of destruction behind them. My therapist calls it "emotional vampirism". They seduce you in, suck you dry, and leave you behind. The destruction/shame is repressed and even disassociated on top of all the other bad decisions. Calling my wife to account on anything is like a black hole.

NC sounds like a good plan.

Reacting to pwBPD is difficult to manage. Sometimes I feel like lashing out but I know it will fall on deaf ears. 

[NCEA]

Last night I decided to find out who her ex was. It took me 3 minutes to find his FB profile. I was so angry last night, I cycle between acceptance and being calm to incredible anger.

I think about this ex living in complete blindness and think it's only right to write him at some point. Five years ago someone informed me about my exes infidelity and I appreciated it, it explained a lot of things I just couldn't put together by myself. She was Histrionic , 9 years relationship. If I wasn't informed about her cheating, till this day I wouldn't understand that relationship.

[NCEA]

I want to turn this thread to a journal. Hope that's ok.

Day 75 of NC.

Still waking up thinking about it. Still asking "what if".

She never hovered, she has a huge ego and in the last email I told her I think she might be disordered so I dont think she ever will. Still struggling with going from "soul mate" to nothing. I'm starting a new degree in two weeks, I'll be so busy, I hope that will make me to finally forget her.

[Joem678]

Keep moving forward!

[NCEA]

NC 77.

She had no shame organizing herself a double penetration and most disgusting discard but big enough ego and shame not to contact again to see how I'm doing.

At least the CD is gone, my feelings finally caught up with my head. The "love" is gone and finally replaced with disgust and hate. Can't wait for the indifference stage.

[NCEA]

NC 78.

Here is a story I didn't mention above. When you google her name, you find two things about her on Google images:

1) A photo of her body, naked (shirt open) but covered with a book. It appears that she posted it on some Facebook group 3 years ago. Her head is cut off but you can see that it's her and it has her name. Nice, ha?

2) Two quotes that she posted as part of some art that she created. One of them says "I'm a b___, I'm a painter". It's a quote by Frida K.

What kind of person post almost naked photos on FB and such a quote? I'll tell you who - a nut.

I know I dodged a bullet. I'm just so disappointed in what kind of person I've trusted with my feelings, it's beyond words. CD is much weaker but I still wake up in dread sometimes. I so much want to tell her these things.

NC 90 will be huge. After I sent her the last email I told myself I won't contact her "no matter what" for 3 months. It was before I realized what she was, before I read about NC, before anything made sense. So passed NC 90 it will be kind of a "new contract" I'll have to make with myself. It's either a NCEA or a one last "I've figured you out" email, in a few months.

[NCEA]

NC 82.

No New Years email or anything like that. Didn't expect anything really.

I recently remembered three more incidents. One, after me sending her a very kind warm email, making myself completely vulnerable and open, saying that I'll give her a few days of space (after she broke up again from her ex) - she answered with  "it seems like I'm not the only one who needs space", making fun of how honest and vulnerable I was. As if I needed space to deal with my emotions (of love... .)

Second -  a gay female friend of mine said something like me being the "best man she ever met" and my BPD girlfriend said something like "not much of a complement coming from

a gay girl".

Third - A business plan I made to expand my business was only "because you want more money".

It's sad because this is all in the devaluation stage. First two months, I could have shat in her mouth and she'd thank me for it.

[NCEA]

NC 85.

After the other long thread, maybe if you have more insights into my relationship with this girl, I'll be happy to hear it.

Yes, she was wild and the writing was on the wall. But I've dated so many girls before, I thought it would another affair, not me madly falling for her like this, due to the games and manipulation = manufactured love. As a person she's really not very impressive.

[NCEA]

NC 86.

I think what's different with my story is the fact that I sensed she was bad news way way at the beginning. There was something in how much she appreciated superficiality (money, power, status) in an almost childlike manner. I can't tell you how vulgar she was... .But I loved her for it, being naughty. The thing is - some people are naughty because they love sex, and some people are naughty because they're twisted and sick. I think it was when she told me she'd want a "golden shower" it was when I realized that our love of sex is very different... .

To share a passion for passion is something very powerful, the bonding is extreme. No doubt that sex is always our downfall. Those chemicals confuse us and fog our brains.

It's been so long, everything is starting to fade away. Everything but the paint itself.

[Fr4nz]

NC 78.

Here is a story I didn't mention above. When you google her name, you find two things about her on Google images:

1) A photo of her body, naked (shirt open) but covered with a book. It appears that she posted it on some Facebook group 3 years ago. Her head is cut off but you can see that it's her and it has her name. Nice, ha?

2) Two quotes that she posted as part of some art that she created. One of them says "I'm a b___, I'm a painter". It's a quote by Frida K.

What kind of person post almost naked photos on FB and such a quote? I'll tell you who - a nut.

I know I dodged a bullet. I'm just so disappointed in what kind of person I've trusted with my feelings, it's beyond words. CD is much weaker but I still wake up in dread sometimes. I so much want to tell her these things.

NC 90 will be huge. After I sent her the last email I told myself I won't contact her "no matter what" for 3 months. It was before I realized what she was, before I read about NC, before anything made sense. So passed NC 90 it will be kind of a "new contract" I'll have to make with myself. It's either a NCEA or a one last "I've figured you out" email, in a few months.

It seems she has HPD traits... .are you sure she is a "pure" BPD?

[NCEA]

Why histrionic? Did you read my first post at the top?

My 9 years ex was histrionic for sure. This one, had a much less dramatic speech. But I spent no more than a total of 20 days with her so I've may missed somethings. Does she sound more HPD than BPD?

[Fr4nz]

Why histrionic?

From your post I quoted, it seems there's a ton of attention-seeking behaviours going on on her side. For example, the photo of her naked body in FB... .

Maybe I'm wrong, but perhaps it may be worth to have a look at this book chapter, it may help to re-evaluate behaviours and events happened during the relationship and understand if she posses HPD traits as well:

www.universitypsychiatry.com/clientuploads/picp/04_PICPs.pdf

HPD and BPD can be confounded and it is not rare that they are comorbid.

In my personal experience, I initially thought that my ex was BPD, yet reviewing carefully some events happened during (and after) the relationship, she definitely posses HPD traits as well (the BPD component is dominant, anyway, and it represents THE problem for her). Perhaps it's your case as well... .

[NCEA]

She doesn't post much, maybe once in 1-2 weeks, so she's not really attention seeking. Only from men and she uses Facebook for triangulation and games. A few days before she "met the crazy love" she'd put a song on her timeline, "It's a fool's love", after the discard I realized it was meant for me.

As we all know it's a spectrum and the traits are like a "trail mix", a little bit of this, a little bit of that.

I can't put a link here for my social project but it's basically a video based challenge for people to do good for others, each week they receive a video with instructions and me and my friend already recorded the first 6 weeks worth of videos, it's all edited and online, the automatic email sequence is set up, the website is ready and beautiful... .this is just super exciting and we'll go public  with it in 2-3 days.

We're also going to post videos which are longer and are not instructions but "lessons" about happiness, working out, nutrition etc . So I had an idea to make one video about toxic relationships and people with disorders and I'll talk for 20 minutes about this "girl I knew" with the whole story and what red flags people should look for ... .wink wink.     She'll probably find it one day because I'm using my name and all on the videos and on the website.

[NCEA]

Posting it here to have everything in one place.

RED FLAGS

1) Extreme sexual promiscuity (double penetration, organizes orgies, sex with complete strangers in an arrangement based on a photo)

2) Likes to humiliate and be humiliated in sex - BDSM, asked for a "golden shower", likes to penetrate men.

3) No relationship without cheating.

4) Most relationships long distance to avoid intimacy and be found out as what she is.

5) Self revelations of dark side - I'm a monster, I'm a Nazi, I'm afraid of being myself.

6) Mental issues - psychosis ("the walls are moving", panic attacks (triggered by a movie), mental breakdowns (due to too much work)

7) Constant triangulation, mentioning of exes, lining up orbiters.

8) Lack of respect to privacy (looked over the content of my suitcase)

9) Lies

10) Impaired speech (would start mumbling when spoke about embarrassing issues like an abortion.

11) Self esteem that will range from "I'm total s-h-it" to "I AM the   s-h-it". (extreme high and low)

12) Extreme mirroring during love bombing ("I started talking like you" "I'm using your gestures", taking on hobbies and interests)

13) Initially moving relationship very quickly.

14) Devaluation stage - invalidation, disrespect.

15) Devaluation stage - Games in communication, hot / cold , texting other guys when she's with you, keeping orbiters.

16) Walking the edge - pushing you away and once you show signs of leaving, start pulling you back in.

17) History of trauma - early divorce of parents, abandoning father, anorexia as a teen, sexual harassment as a teen, leaving home early, fluctuations in relationship with parents, alcoholic mother, had an abortion during early 20s.

18) Lack of emotions when otherwise would be expected (didn't care at all when I broke up with her)

19) Most disgusting discards with all exes boyfriends and lovers.

20) Extremely seductive and uses sex to control others.

21) Quick tempered.

22) Lack of any shame, superficial remorse for past wrong doing.

23) Frequent use of drugs as a teen ("there were drugs everywhere"

24) Selfishness, lack of warmth outside of the bed.

25) Quickly to declare that we're soul mates then fell in love with someone else in 4 days. LOL.

PARTIAL LIST. WE ONLY SPENT 20 DAYS TOGETHER, over a 6 months long distance relationship.

[NCEA]

NC 88! This is exciting , when I hit 90 it will be more real in a sense because my original 90 day NC deal I did with myself will expire and it will be me doing it out of free will and not am internally enforced rule. Next target is 180.

[Fr4nz]

NC 88! This is exciting , when I hit 90 it will be more real in a sense because my original 90 day NC deal I did with myself will expire and it will be me doing it out of free will and not am internally enforced rule. Next target is 180.

With time it gets easier... .I'm almost at 360 :D

Keep it on, with time it gets easier!

[NCEA]

NC 97. I feel amazing. Mainly I think because I started a new degree. New friends, busy whole day long... .she's receding into the distant past where she belongs. At 100 I'm resetting my counter to count backwards towards her birthday, to show days until my revenge email. By then I won't care at all, it will be purely to cause damage to someone who deserves it, not out of rage but out of a sense of justice and for the benefit of future victims. It will plant a seed in her mind which in a few years may lead to acceptance and therapy.

[NCEA]

I will start posting on the other forum, just to say that my plan is this. My ex has a birthday on the 5th of May. I'm going to ask her in a day or two if I should come visit her for her birthday. If she says yes and it's all warm and positive, I will tell my new girl the truth, that I'm not over my ex and I have too strong feelings for her, and that we should break it off. I wouldn't drag this more than a few days.

Meanwhile I just read my red flag list above, it's just unbelievable how I keep getting back into this, that's what I'll speak with my T about. Although what can he tell me, I'm in love with her and didn't see the bottom yet. It's as simple as that. 

[NCEA]

Wanted to update my original story thread.

After a four months long recycle in which we've seen each other 6-7 times, always me going to Paris to meet her, and sleeping together once, it's officially over again. She wants to move on and have "encounters" again and says she loves me but not as her partner.

Luckily I've met a wonderful young girl who I've been also seeing in the passed two months and now I can concentrate on her and trying to make it work. This new girl is wonderful, everything the other isn't. Kind, warm, loving, not screwed up in any way, only done serious relationships, sweet... .Appreciative. The BPD one was screwed up in so many ways, I loved her and still do to some extent but as a partner she'd be awful.

It's been just 2 days since last contact with exBPD, I still think of her but I'm nowhere near depressed or anything like that.

I hope to update this thread in a few months, saying that the exBPD is a distant memory.

Thanks for the support.