Staying Grounded While Detaching

[vortex of confusion]

I am in the process of detaching from the father of my children. We are still living together in the same house and are still legally married.

Emotionally, I am done with him. I can't stand the thought of him touching me and I don't like spending time with him. I feel sorry for him. I have repeatedly told him that I am done. He doesn't seem to hear me. He still tries to hug and kiss me. I turn away or walk away. He still tries to demand my attention through small passive aggressive means.

He recently got laid off from work and is looking for work. That means that he and I are home together with the kids more often than not. I have been finding all sorts of reasons to get out of the house. It is trying my patience.

At one point, we had a discussion about the relationship. I reiterated that I am done. I don't recall how it went exactly. I know that he told me that I wanted him to do things that he couldn't do and didn't believe in. I asked what that was. He said that I pushed too hard for counseling. He doesn't believe in it and basically said that counseling is pointless because he could go in there and act as crazy or as sane as he wanted and pretty much play games with the therapist. I asked him what else I wanted that was too much. He couldn't remember. I know that I walked away from the conversation feeling like this is my fault. If I just didn't want so much, then things would be ok. I am tired of feeling like this is all my fault. It isn't. I feel like I have tried everything in my power to accommodate him, take care of him, and work with him where he is. I am done. I feel like a jerk for being so completely and utterly done. To outsiders, I look like that jerk because all they see is the doting husband that acts like the kids and I are his world. They don't see his condescending, dismissing, and being checked out.

I want to scream at him, "I asked too much of you? I wanted counseling. You wanted us to boink other people. I cried and told you I couldn't go through with it the first time. Instead of backing off, you pushed and pushed and pushed. How the heck is asking you to get help too friggin' much? What about what you wanted from me? What about you encouraging me to say and do and be things that I am not?"

In the meantime, I am trying to stay grounded. I am trying to be boring. I am trying not to get sucked into his delusions by continuing to remind him that it is over. I can tell him it is over and then a few minutes later he is talking like we are still together and that maybe he can get a job somewhere else so we can separate and that maybe a separation will do us good because absence makes the heart grow fonder, blah, blah, blah. He makes remarks about still holding onto hope. He still wears his wedding ring. I feel crazy some days because he acts like everything is okay and normal.

That opportunity has passed. It is like he has forgotten any of the stuff that he has done to hurt me. It is like he has forgotten that when I came to him about things being not okay, he pushed to see other people rather than invest in our relationship. Instead of making a real effort to check into the relationship, he checked out and relished the idea of us seeing other people. He forgets that he sat down and looked at my email with me and tried to pick out guys for me to get busy with. He even went so far as to say, "Oh, you should go f*** that guy. You would probably enjoy being with somebody with a d*** that big." I didn't do it but the idea of the person that was supposed to be my spouse doing that and relishing it bugs me. It bugs me that he could throw me away like that and push me off on pretty much any guy that would have me.

I do have a boyfriend now. My boyfriend was understandably concerned about the fact that I am legally married. I told him to talk to my husband and confirm that he was okay with everything. Not only was he okay with me seeing this guy, but he went so far as to brag to my boyfriend and tell him "Oh, you won't regret it." I felt like a friggin' car or some other possession. It felt like future ex husband was letting somebody borrow his car. I am still very hurt by some of this stuff and I am trying to keep myself grounded and not say or do anything to set myself back. For example, my future ex has been rather nice at times lately. (The niceness is sandwiched between him being condescending and annoying.) Until I can find a way to get me and the kids away from him, I am going to have to work extra hard at staying grounded without taking any bait and without getting worn down by him acting like everything is okay and normal.

What I want to do is yell and cuss and scream at him for all of the hurtful things that he has done. The other day, he was outside when I was on the phone. I hate the way he comes outside and accidentally hears everything that is being said. We were outside and I was on the phone. Our daughter came out and said something so he was talking to her. The person that I was talking to commented about how condescending he was being. I guess stbx heard it. Then he goes all crappy with me and says something like, "I know that I am just an inconvenience to you. I wish you would just come out and tell me that I am nothing but an inconvenience to you and the kids." I didn't take the bait. I didn't respond. I just kept quiet.

[VitaminC]

Vortex,

I am writing because I am so touched by your situation. That all sounds incredibly hard. A very very hard thing to stay grounded and self-aware in such circumstances. You are doing so extremely well in how you think about this so clearly that I can hardly fathom how you manage. I would be a shattered mess, I am sure.

Thinking about the kinds of mental and emotional resources you need to have to cope is making my head spin a little.

That constant switching between acting paranoid and jealous, then acting as if everything is normal, then wanting to be in an open relationship of some sort - it all sounds familiar from what I've been reading on this site. Typical, if extreme (it seems to me), behaviour. All made much more possible by your still having to live in the same house and having children who need to be protected from the madness.

Can you get friends and family more involved in your life? Get yourself a therapist to help you keep in touch with what you know to be the reality? Get legal counsel? See about other financial resources to help you get out of the situation that you are in?

Please don't try to process and deal with this all by yourself. I think there are some good posts on this site about practical ways of dealing with at least some of the issues you are facing. Look around - if you haven't already.

And, it sounds to me, that the sooner you remove yourself from that toxic situation the better for both you and your children.

Take Care.

[thisworld]

Vortex of Confusion,

Congratulations on having made a firm decision and standing your ground under these trying circumstances, really. I would find it crazy-making I think. Honestly, I would perceive anything he does as manipulation at this stage, regardless of his intentions. Maybe it's not fair, at the same time I'm sure you have tried enough times to put yourself, your needs aside to understand him. Now is the time to avoid getting pulled back into fights, to be angered, to be manipulated. Your leaving this relationship is not dependent on his understanding or accepting it really. Let him wear the ring really.

The society is bizarre, too in these things. I think they want the order of the world (a schema maybe) just to go on as they would like it to do. It requires less effort on their behalf, they don't have to have strong attitudes against these people and denial helps them to do this. I sometimes find this hypocritical even. Luckily, the world is also full of people  who have enough fairness, maturity and integrity in them to think "I wonder what he did to this woman so she's leaving such a seemingly nice man." Many people know that there are some good guys that come at a price. I, for myself, think their friendship is enough.

You say, "What I want to do is yell and cuss and scream at him for all of the hurtful things that he has done." I think he's pulling you back to an emotional zone. Isn't it better to have your alone time, pay attention to relaxation and focusing on yourself so that you can deflete his manipulations and not react to him emotionally - in yourself as well?

Stay strong

[vortex of confusion]

I am writing because I am so touched by your situation. That all sounds incredibly hard. A very very hard thing to stay grounded and self-aware in such circumstances. You are doing so extremely well in how you think about this so clearly that I can hardly fathom how you manage. I would be a shattered mess, I am sure.

Thinking about the kinds of mental and emotional resources you need to have to cope is making my head spin a little.

Thank you for your kind words. It is very difficult. I am slowly peeling back the layers. I have completely lost my head at different times. I tried to change to a staying mindset and just couldn't do it. I fought really hard for the relationship and used to put all of my energies into being a better wife. I have abandoned that and feel a lot more at peace with working towards detaching even more. The problem for me is that I felt like something was off for years but could never put my finger on it. When I would try to talk to him, I would get hit with, "Why do you keep bringing this stuff up?" or he would look at me like I had horns growing out of my head because he was living in a completely different reality than me.

That constant switching between acting paranoid and jealous, then acting as if everything is normal, then wanting to be in an open relationship of some sort - it all sounds familiar from what I've been reading on this site. Typical, if extreme (it seems to me), behaviour. All made much more possible by your still having to live in the same house and having children who need to be protected from the madness.

My children are relatively clueless about a lot of what has gone on over the years. They see dad as checked out and immature but they don't really see the crap that has gone on in secret or behind closed doors. I am torn between maintaining a certain level of normalcy for the kids while trying to figure stuff out and detach in the background.

Can you get friends and family more involved in your life? Get yourself a therapist to help you keep in touch with what you know to be the reality? Get legal counsel? See about other financial resources to help you get out of the situation that you are in?

I have been slowly trying to figure some of this stuff out. Because of the kids, I don't want to do things that are wreckless or not well thought out. I am slowly building up a support network. A lot of it is making people aware of what is going on without painting anyone black and without making the situation worse. It is tricky.

And, it sounds to me, that the sooner you remove yourself from that toxic situation the better for both you and your children.

I am still trying to accept this. I know it is toxic. I have been with my husband for 18 years. I have spent a lot of years in denial and am trying to come to grips with all of this and stay grounded.

[vortex of confusion]

You say, "What I want to do is yell and cuss and scream at him for all of the hurtful things that he has done." I think he's pulling you back to an emotional zone. Isn't it better to have your alone time, pay attention to relaxation and focusing on yourself so that you can deflete his manipulations and not react to him emotionally - in yourself as well?

I have gotten to a point where I don't really react to him much. I don't really engage him. He will sit and yammer on and I will listen and nod. Most of the time, the stuff that he is yammering about is pointless drivel that makes no difference to me. For example, he will go on and on about football. I have never been a big fan of football. And I have all sorts of silly songs that I sing in my head to keep myself lighthearted about things.

Even with all of that, there are times that I do want to yell and cuss and scream. I have been bottling this stuff up for years. I know that he isn't going to hear a single thing that I say. I know that lashing out will only make me feel worse because I don't like behaving like that. I like to be pretty grounded and rational for the most part. It doesn't work that way some of the time though. Some of this stuff, I am finally letting myself feel and think about. For so long, I shoved aside any and all negative emotions when it came to the relationship. I would find the positive and completely dismiss myself. I can't do that any more.

[JaneStorm]

I am to the point that when my BPDex 'acts normally', he is just compacting crazy thoughts that will come out in another tirade. I have had weeks where we would (apparently) be having a sane, functioning, and happy relationship and then, BOOM! "What the what?" He would tell me that it "had been building up". We definitely see the world through very different lenses.

I hope you continue to keep yourself centered in this difficult situation, Vortex.

[vortex of confusion]

I am to the point that when my BPDex 'acts normally', he is just compacting crazy thoughts that will come out in another tirade. I have had weeks where we would (apparently) be having a sane, functioning, and happy relationship and then, BOOM! "What the what?" He would tell me that it "had been building up". We definitely see the world through very different lenses.

I hope you continue to keep yourself centered in this difficult situation, Vortex.

Thank you!

He keeps bringing up a trip we went on back in September. He says, "Everything seemed great while we were there and then we come home and things were back to the way they were." We were at HIS mom's house. We had taken a road trip with 4 kids. It was not the time or place to discuss things. I put everything aside to make sure that everyone had a good time. Things were back to normal at home because he still couldn't be intimate with me without me talking about other men. He didn't/wouldn't go to counseling. And, the list goes on. I felt like everything would be okay if I was able to sweep everything under the rug and pretend that nothing had happened. Everything would be okay if I could just be okay with him being on his computer games all the time. Everything would be okay if I could just forget the fact that he badgered me to have sex with other men and give him details. I can't just forget that.

Mine is a pro as saying small passive aggressive stuff. He hasn't raged in a long time. However, all of the stuff comes out as little bitty snide remarks.

[VitaminC]

When I would try to talk to him, I would get hit with, "Why do you keep bringing this stuff up?" or he would look at me like I had horns growing out of my head because he was living in a completely different reality than me.

I know this. It's a manoeuvre - conscious or not - the effect of which is to make us feel like we're inventing things and being totally unreasonable.   At the break-up talk I had with my recent ex, I told him that it seemed that I was the one constantly dissatisfied, always bringing things up (although never managing to resolve a single thing for good), always the one trying to have a talk.  Then he would whip something out that he'd been thinking for months, so he would say, or refer to something that he'd felt upset about that happened weeks ago.  When I asked why he didn't just tell me at the time, he never had an answer.  Not once.

There is so much denial going on that I don't know how it's sustainable for someone. But it is an active creation and keeping upright of a whole other reality, yes.  

My children are relatively clueless about a lot of what has gone on over the years. They see dad as checked out and immature but they don't really see the crap that has gone on in secret or behind closed doors. I am torn between maintaining a certain level of normalcy for the kids while trying to figure stuff out and detach in the background.

What age are your kids? I think it's very admirable of you to keep them outside of all this, and obviously very stressful to carry that all by yourself.

My ex has stories of his parents fighting when he was young (from what I gather the dad, now dead, had BPD himself. He had a whole other family in another city and there were many many episodes that the kids, my ex's siblings, witnessed over the years).   Apparently during the fights the mother would sometimes wake the children and hold open doors, screaming "come see what your father is doing!"  I was so horrified and saddened when he told me this.

I have been slowly trying to figure some of this stuff out. Because of the kids, I don't want to do things that are reckless or not well thought out. I am slowly building up a support network. A lot of it is making people aware of what is going on without painting anyone black and without making the situation worse. It is tricky.

I can certainly appreciate that this is tricky. My god, "tricky" is such a word choice! I am finding it hard to explain any of my situation to even a couple of close friends who have been listening to me complaining, and wondering, and held me while I was sobbing during the past year and a half.   Now that I have figured it out, I want to explain it, maybe because I still need support in not slipping back.  And in my case it's only been 18 months or so and there are no children - so really only myself to consider.  And still it's difficult.

I am still trying to accept this. I know it is toxic. I have been with my husband for 18 years. I have spent a lot of years in denial and am trying to come to grips with all of this and stay grounded.

You are doing an incredible job. To figure all this out, to protect your kids, to slowly garner a support network, all while having to deal with the madness on a daily basis.   I am worried about tomorrow, Christmas Day. I feel terrible to know he will be alone, which is the worst imaginable thing for him, of course.   I have to remember that I too will be alone and that he is unlikely to have any feeling at all about that.  

You are giving me strength.

[vortex of confusion]

I know this. It's a manoeuvre - conscious or not - the effect of which is to make us feel like we're inventing things and being totally unreasonable.   At the break-up talk I had with my recent ex, I told him that it seemed that I was the one constantly dissatisfied, always bringing things up (although never managing to resolve a single thing for good), always the one trying to have a talk.  Then he would whip something out that he'd been thinking for months, so he would say, or refer to something that he'd felt upset about that happened weeks ago.  When I asked why he didn't just tell me at the time, he never had an answer.  Not once.

I have felt unreasonable and demanding for years because of how he reacts when I try to bring up simple stuff. A lot of the time, he has a way of making everything about him. I used to think that I must be a horrible person. I have shared some of the things that I was wanting or asking about with friends and have been told that I have it all wrong. My standards have been too low, not too high as I had been led to believe.

I sometimes think they start pulling stuff out of a hat when confronted with a reasonable discussion. I have had that experience way too many times. It took me a while to figure out what the heck was going on.

What age are your kids? I think it's very admirable of you to keep them outside of all this, and obviously very stressful to carry that all by yourself.

14, 11, 8, 6

They know that we don't get along very well and have commented about some of the tension. They get annoyed with dad too. They have no respect for him because of his childish behavior. That is as much as they know. I think the oldest knows more than the younger ones because she is very aware and asks lots of questions. She keeps me on my toes.

My ex has stories of his parents fighting when he was young (from what I gather the dad, now dead, had BPD himself. He had a whole other family in another city and there were many many episodes that the kids, my ex's siblings, witnessed over the years).   Apparently during the fights the mother would sometimes wake the children and hold open doors, screaming "come see what your father is doing!"  I was so horrified and saddened when he told me this.

That is horrifying. I had a few similar experiences as a kid and I have seen my parents do some pretty crazy stuff to each other over the years. I try my best to never ever let my kids see anything more than us bickering.

I can certainly appreciate that this is tricky. My god, "tricky" is such a word choice! I am finding it hard to explain any of my situation to even a couple of close friends who have been listening to me complaining, and wondering, and held me while I was sobbing during the past year and a half.   Now that I have figured it out, I want to explain it, maybe because I still need support in not slipping back.  And in my case it's only been 18 months or so and there are no children - so really only myself to consider.  And still it's difficult.

Whenever I attempt to explain things to people, they are completely horrified. Sometimes, I feel like I am misrepresenting the situation because people are so horrified by what I am saying. I find that explaining it and sharing it helps me to accept it and make it more real. Plus, sharing it also helps me to see just how absurd some of the stuff that I have accepted over the years has been.

You are doing an incredible job. To figure all this out, to protect your kids, to slowly garner a support network, all while having to deal with the madness on a daily basis.   I am worried about tomorrow, Christmas Day. I feel terrible to know he will be alone, which is the worst imaginable thing for him, of course.   I have to remember that I too will be alone and that he is unlikely to have any feeling at all about that.  

I have been trying to worry about me more. I have had a few people tell me how hard things must be for him. He lost his job. His wife told him that it was over, etc.  I have to remind myself that he was nowhere to be found when I was lonely and crying. He didn't seem to care too much when I was sitting in the bathtub crying and telling him that I couldn't go through with meeting some guy. Instead of telling me not to do it, he rubbed my back and told me how much I would enjoy it, blah, blah, blah. Whenever I find myself feeling bad for him, I remind myself of how bad I have felt over the years. I remind myself of how alone I have felt and how much I sometimes struggle with this stuff.

Instead of taking care of him, I am trying to do a better job of taking care of me.