Conflict dynamic

[Our abuse recovery guide]

I had a situation come up this morning that I can only attribute to my parents and after thinking about it, I still think this is the right place to post about this, so here I am.

So my daughter spent the night at my brothers and this morning I got a message from her that said she heard I was heartbroken and was staying home to paint.

I got mad when I read this because that wasn't true so I texted my brother and asked him to call me.

I found out that my brother had talked to my parents and they said this and my brother also said my daughter said this. Now I'm not going to blame my 15 year old for getting it wrong so I texted my dad to ask him to call me. (This of course has to do with my partner.)

I asked my dad to please check with me first before he tells my brother how I'm feeling as I'm not feeling heartbroken at all. What I am is tired, I had to ground my daughter again this week and take away her phone and when my brother offered to have us overnight I decided to stay home and take advantage of the respite.

After talking to my dad I kind of felt like the monster because I was so angry, however I know I am right to tell my dad to please ask me how I'm feeling before he tells my brother. (My dad is not the BPD, he's the npd.) I don't even dare call my mother, I can't handle her. (She's the potential BPD, I'm only in the second chapter of the BPD mother book.) Yes my parents are still together.

When I confronted my dad and asked him who told my brother and my daughter this misinformation at first my dad denied it.

This is a complicated problem and part of it has to do with an issue on another board.  

I know my dad has a hard time dealing with my emotions and I have to be careful talking to him least I tap into that historical well of abandonment which I don't want to do. I wouldn't care if it hadn't involved my daughter. I have a hard enough time keeping my emotions away from her. I don't need my dad stirring the pot, which is kind of ironic because that is something he often accuses me of, hence the conflict dynamic topic.

[unicorn2014]

I had a situation come up this morning that I can only attribute to my parents and after thinking about it, I still think this is the right place to post about this, so here I am.

So my daughter spent the night at my brothers and this morning I got a message from her that said she heard I was heartbroken and was staying home to paint.

I got mad when I read this because that wasn't true so I texted my brother and asked him to call me.

I found out that my brother had talked to my parents and they said this and my brother also said my daughter said this. Now I'm not going to blame my 15 year old for getting it wrong so I texted my dad to ask him to call me. (This of course has to do with my partner.)

I asked my dad to please check with me first before he tells my brother how I'm feeling as I'm not feeling heartbroken at all. What I am is tired, I had to ground my daughter again this week and take away her phone and when my brother offered to have us overnight I decided to stay home and take advantage of the respite.

After talking to my dad I kind of felt like the monster because I was so angry, however I know I am right to tell my dad to please ask me how I'm feeling before he tells my brother. (My dad is not the BPD, he's the npd.) I don't even dare call my mother, I can't handle her. (She's the potential BPD, I'm only in the second chapter of the BPD mother book.) Yes my parents are still together.

When I confronted my dad and asked him who told my brother and my daughter this misinformation at first my dad denied it.

This is a complicated problem and part of it has to do with an issue on another board.  

I know my dad has a hard time dealing with my emotions and I have to be careful talking to him least I tap into that historical well of abandonment which I don't want to do. I wouldn't care if it hadn't involved my daughter. I have a hard enough time keeping my emotions away from her. I don't need my dad stirring the pot, which is kind of ironic because that is something he often accuses me of, hence the conflict dynamic topic.

[Anaias]

Hi there

That all sounds awful, and so familiar, the way misinformation/misinterpretations and 'he said she said you said' rubbish that goes on, a whole forest fire can flare up and then you get accused of lighting it!

I'm just curious about what you meant by 'tapping into the well of abandonment'.  Do you mean yours, or your fathers? 

[unicorn2014]

Thanks for replying, that whole chain of events made me miss my bus.

I mean my well of abandonment , my father is narcissistic, my mom is the potential borderline.

This taps into my undecided issues, that's what the misinterpretation was about. My father told my brother who told my daughter that I was heartbroken over my partner not being here for Christmas and that's not how I feel at all. I messaged my daughter and my brother and traced it back to my dad. At first when he confronted him he denied it, then he denied talking to my daughter but admitted talking to my brother. I don't feel heartbroken at all I feel disappointed and frustrated. This whole thing made me spin out of control. Now I have to go and face my parents and they are going to ask me lots of questions. Meanwhile my partner is telling me his misses being with me. I don't miss him at all. I'm tired of his deception.

I always wanted my dad to defend me from bad men and he never did. My mom is a hopeless case. She acted jealous or envious of me. My mom is the potential bp but I can't even talk about her . I posted about my mom in a previous thread. She really sets me off. I don't know how to be around her. I can't even talk to her.

[Panda39]

Unicorn,

Instead of focusing on others and what they are doing and trying to control their actions how about looking at how you contribute to the drama and conflict.

We can not control what others, think or do, we can only control our own actions and how we think, act and react. How could you have responded to your daughter's comment in a way that didn't escalate things... .because your response did escalate things.

Can you see how you escalated the comment made by your daughter?  How you pulled others in and created drama? Do you see the triangle? Do you see the jading? 

Below are links and information on Triangulation and Jading.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0


To JADE is to

Justify

Argue

Defend

Explain


https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=118892.0

Was there a better way you could have responded to your daughter?


Panda39

[unicorn2014]

I didn't respond to my daughter. I suck at writing to make you think that I did. I asked her who told her that. My point is who started the rumor mill. My dad admitted to it. The only thing that got escalated was my emotions. This post isn't helping. I need to step away.

----

I'm not the one triangulating . That's the whole point of my post. I have those lessons memorized.

-----

I will finish by saying I think my mom is behind this so all I can do is keep reading my borderline mother book.

[Coral]

Panda, is this the place for pouncing?  You're certainly entitled to your opinion but I don't see Unicorn escalating.

[unicorn2014]

Thank you coral, all I was doing was reporting something my daughter said to me. I wouldn't involve her in adult problems.

[Notwendy]

These kinds of family dynamics are common with families that have poor boundaries. We also learn to function in these families in dysfunctional ways- but these ways feel "normal" to us in context.

My mother talks about me ( and others ) without considering that the information is private or not appropriate. When I responded by not telling her personal things, in the absence of this information- she made things up. It was hard to come to terms with the fact that my mother tells people things about me that are not true but she does. If I react to her, she feels victimized. Reacting to her adds to the drama.

Why she does this is not something I really understand, but it gives her a sense of power and importance when she can do it.

Sometimes they are not appropriate. She recently told my teen kids about who I dated before I met their dad. I have been married for decades. She "remembered" things that didn't happen. Before I might have gotten angry or upset and called her out on this . This would just comfirm to her that she had power over me. The kids know that she does this and so to them it was grandma being grandma. I didn't react.

I spent much time in ACOA groups which address these family patterns -even if there is no alcohol abuse. At meetings that read the "laundry list" of dysfunctional traits that children in these families learn. While all of them resonated with me, one that stood out was that "we became reactors rather than actors". I recognized this in me and didn't want to be so reactive to others in my life.

So back to Pandas thread- it's not so much this incident or who did what but that what someone said resulted in a reaction from you. This is not to judge but to ask if you would have considered a different response- perhaps not reacting at all.

This does not mean not having boundaries or letting people do what they want to you. It is not anything you do for them. It is something that you can do to free yourself from emotional upset if you wish to do it.

We really can't control what others say about us or who they say it to. My mother does not respect my boundaries and she lies if she wants to. I can't control that. However I can choose to keep what I want to be private, private, and not let her stories disturb my peace of mind.

Choosing to do things differently is a gift to us.

[flourdust]

Very true, Notwendy. I had a similar family dynamic play out over the last few days. My daughter is visiting family out of town. My mother is planning to take her ice skating with one or both of my brothers. There's drama going on between the three of them, because the two brothers can't agree on the skating time, my mother is trying to come up with a solution to please everyone, and one of my brothers tried to suck me into the drama by copying me on the long email string and asking what I thought.

I just responded, "Sounds crazy! Hope you guys get it all worked out."

If I was in Unicorn's shoes, I would have probably responded to her daughter by saying "No, I'm not heartbroken. I'm just tired and enjoying a day of rest." And left it at that. And then enjoyed my day of rest.

[unicorn2014]

Thank you flour dust but I did confront my mom in the kitchen and the words did come out of her mouth "i thought you were heart broken." I had a long conversation with her and her friend about my situation. Now I'm sitting down with my journal trying to figure out what's going on.

[unicorn2014]

Thank you not Wendy I have the 7th step prayers and the 10th step inventory in my wallet. Everybody is full of advice about my situation and I'm trying to figure it out. The fact my mom still likes my ex husband and has forgotten why his truck was impounded concerns me. I think she's less trustworthy then my partner. I've been wAtching her in a social situation and she is difficult.

[Notwendy]

It is not easy to confront our own family issues and it can feel painful. My mother has said many hurtful and destructive things about me. It has caused divisions in the family. Eventually I realized that it was her word vs mine and that if I involved other people- they would have to choose which one to believe. In any case- it would be a triangle. Her,me, them. Since most people in her world - my family - function in this way, I chose to not get into a situation where I was already defending myself in reaction to what she said (JADE)

This also involved letting go of what others thought about me. I can't control that. I had faith that over time , people who cared about me would see who I was. I let it go with that.

[unicorn2014]

Thank you not Wendy , she didn't talk to my daughter, she talked to my brother who talked to my daughter. I confronted my mom in the kitchen and told her I did not have a broken heart. However listening to her I began to get suspicious of her. She's suspicious of my partner but I'm suspicious of her as she still likes my ex and has conveniently forgotten what he has done. My mother is crazy making. All I can do is keep reading my book and keep working my program. She's definitely not a good reality check.

[Coral]

What happened to empathy on this board?

[Notwendy]

Empathy can work in different ways. Of course, I do feel empathy for Unicorn, because I have been in her shoes. The things my mother has said about me to others has been very hurtful.

Eventually, it got hurtful to the point that I wanted to change things. I tried different ways- counseling with sympathetic T's, friend, family members who all confirmed that yes, my mother was doing mean and hurtful things, and that I didn't deserve any of them. I could focus on a whole list of things that she did, continued to do, and was grateful for the emotional support of people who were sympathetic to me.

Then, eventually, a T listened to what I was saying and said asked me to think about this: I can't control anything my mother or anyone else does, but what am I going to do to get off the drama triangle? When I learned about that triangle and saw all the ways that I was participating on it, I wanted to stop. But how could I stop when the people I sought help from were confirming that yes, I was my mother's victim. I was right, she was wrong. None of this told me how to act any different than I had been doing.

Then for a while, when I vented to my T about how horribly I was treated, she turned the whole thing around on me. A sponsor did that too. And, I was angry that they were no longer sympathetic to me. That they thought is was my fault? How could that be my fault? She was the disordered person?

The uncomfortable truth was that I was also more affected that I believed, and being co-dependent was creating a lot of issues for me, and until I saw it and took charge of it, nothing was going to change for me. But to change, I needed people who were not so nice to me. I needed people who were honest enough to call me out on my behavior. Even if they were wrong about it the affect of asking me " what is my part in this?", at least led me to think about it, to turn the focus off my mother and on to me. It was important for me to change my focus because I was the only person I could change.


They could do this with empathy because, they too had been in my shoes, and were grateful that someone who understood had called them out on their behavior. They were paying it forward.

I am so thankful that they did this as sympathy just kept me from changing. My relationship with my mother and everyone else is better, because I am behaving in a more emotionally healthy way with them. And I am still a work in progress. But because I am grateful for this kind of "empathy", I am trying to pay this forward too, even if it isn't as comfortable as sympathy. I do think it is important to remain respectful and I hope that this is coming forth. We are all in a similar boat with difficult parents.

And when I post here with an issue, I hope that others will do the same- ask me what my part in it was. Even if it isn't easy for me to hear it.

But really, this is a lay board, and none of us are professionals. Each one of us responds how we see it, how we would hope to have someone respond to us. If this isn't working or helpful, then just let it go and focus on posts that do seem to help. On a public board it is important to filter the responses.

[unicorn2014]

Thank you not Wendy.

I'm having a difficult time keeping my coping and undecided and saving issues separate. Last night my mother touched all three of those buttons.

I'm deep in the chapter on the hermit mother now.

[Notwendy]

It's OK as relationship issues can overlap. The good news is that working on ourselves can affect all of the relationships we have. So if you grow in one area, it might mean getting better in all of them.

Of course our mothers can push all our buttons! They raised us.

We all grow at our own pace, one step at a time. Sometimes we backtrack. We're human!

[unicorn2014]

Not wendy wrote on my  thread on the saving board

Also, for some people, feelings =Facts. So, your mother said something to your brother, who said something to your D. This sounds like the telephone game-where information is passed along from one person to another. Some families operate like this. My mother does- she makes up things about me, and then, when they get back to me, it seems very strange. Like you, I would confront her, but it didn't change anything. She still does it. It just added to the drama in the family.


My mother has said the most outrageous things about me at times. I don't know if she believes them or not- but I can't control what she thinks or says. Does she bring up old relationships of mine and have opinions about them? Yes, and she will tell anyone, including my own teen kids. What I have found happen is that, it isn't that meaningful to them. They are more interested in their own friends and lives. If I let it go, they laugh about it- because my mom says all kinds of things to them and this is just one of them. If I were to confront my mother, explain it, defend it, then it is me who is making it into a bigger deal than it is.

My mom was really stirring the pot yesterday, for example she forgot that my ex husband lost our truck after I signed it over to him because of a DUI. She held me responsible for his relapse. Both she and her friend were talking about how much they liked my ex husband. When I told her that he owed me tens of thousands of dollars in child support she made excuses for him and said he would never be able to come up with that money. There are some coparenting issues here that I might have to post about on the coparenting board but as my ex as bipolar and sociopathic I was unsure about posting there.

My mother has made up a huge story about my relationship with my pwBPD. She thinks I'm being taken advantage of, she thinks he doesn't value me, she thinks I'm smarter then him, she thinks he's attached to my daughter and he's going to miss her if I break up with him not realizing that my daughter also likes him.

I know there is nothing I can do to change my mother's opinion or stop her from spreading rumors. Even my dad acknowledged my mother was spreading rumors. I don't know where that is covered in understanding the borderline mother, but if someone remembers please tell me.

[Notwendy]

I think the book is very helpful for understanding mothers wit BPD. However, the examples are models. BPD exists on a spectrum and some parents will have characteristics of more than one. My mother fits at different times- waif, queen, and witch. I did not see a good match for my father and he fit different ones too.

I think for me a most helpful model was the drama triangle along with the book. I could see that when mom went into victim mode, she was waify. Dad stepped into rescuer role. So for instance she might spread rumors about me. Dad may even admit it too. However, if I got angry at her, she would go into victim role and dad would rescue her- side with her against me even if he previously acknowledged what she did.

In my experience, fathers tend to be rescuers. I didn't want to participate on the triangle so I needed to learn different ways of interacting. A sponsor was helpful with that for me.

[unicorn2014]

Thank you not wendy, right now my head is spinning with all the conflict dynamics in my family. I really want to post about my ex but I don't know if he's borderline, only bipolar and sociopathic. I can say I experienced my mother as both being unsupportive and undermining at the same time yesterday. It was very toxic for me. 

[pessim-optimist]

Hello unicorn, 

Dealing with our dysfunctional family can feel like being stuck in a sticky web. And the more we struggle the more entangled we get as a result... .

Hopefully the latest family drama is subsiding? You deserve some rest during the holiday season.

In either case, your way out of this is looking at the general dynamic, rather than the 'drama of the day' - those change and tend to not make sense. However, looking at the bigger picture, you can start creating your own separate and safe world and protect its peace and sanctity.

I am very sorry, it seems that just like so many of us on this board, you don't have a family you can trust to act in a healthy manner and rely on them for emotional support. Unfortunately that means that if you want peace in your life, you will need to find other people that are 'safe' for support. That way, you can start really separating yourself emotionally from your FOO (family of origin) and find the necessary strength to create boundaries that will protect you from the unending family dramas... .

Who do you have as your support system right now? Who else would be a good candidate for a 'safe' person?

[Notwendy]

A safe place/ people is important. My FOO is toxic too. I am in contact with my mother but I can only handle short visits. I used to visit and then return to my family right away, but I now take some time to recharge and do something like a warm bath or listening to music to recharge.

I was used to putting other people's needs first. Doing things for myself didn't feel natural but they are important. A support system includes us. When you feel you have been in drama- be good to yourself.

[unicorn2014]

Thank you everyone , I identified what the problem was, my mom has conveniently forgotten that it was my ex who broke my heart not my current partner.

[unicorn2014]

pessimist-optimist wrote:

Who do you have as your support system right now? Who else would be a good candidate for a 'safe' person?

3 12 step programs including ACA with a sponsor, DBT, my church, and my partner, in terms of my FOO.

[pessim-optimist]

Who do you have as your support system right now? Who else would be a good candidate for a 'safe' person?

3 12 step programs including ACA with a sponsor, DBT, my church, and my partner, in terms of my FOO.

That looks like a good pool of people who can be supportive and offer loving and constructive feedback and help you on your way toward healing.

I used to be very lonely in my plight with my family (dad w/NPD traits, uBPD mom, brother w/BPD). I would escape whenever I could and spend most of my time at my best friend's. Her mom became almost like a mother to me. I also surrounded myself with other friends and did my best at having a 'good life', but I had nobody to talk to about the family problems I was facing until I met my husband - he too had problems (with his ex and a BPD daughter) - we had no idea that the problems had a name, though, and were struggling along for a long time until we stumbled upon a book about BPD and things finally started making sense... .

The Borderline Mother book is a good one. I found the strategies on how to deal with each type very helpful as my mother primarily displays the traits of a hermit/waif and also a witch at times.

It sounds like things are settling down for you. Wishing you a peaceful rest of the year and a good start of 2016. 

[Coral]

If "empathy is painful", something is wrong.  Sympathy hurts like a 2nd degree sunburn but empathy should not hurt.  It's like carrying a sick child into ER and having the doc go into hysterics.  I want ER doc who feels empathy, not sympathy.

There's no snark in this.  However, lots of folks are flinging advice with the requisite acronyms.  Is this the best way to help a particular poster?  I don't think so, especially when she's had to explain and re-explain so that people understood. 

How about compassion?

[Notwendy]

I don't intend to be hurtful - really- and if I am hurtful then I apologize. If I have advice, it's because I struggled with a similar issue and someone helped me, so I offer what I thought helped. Sometimes it was not comfortable to have someone turn a mirror on me, but since it helped, than that's the best I can offer.

It's done in the spirit of empathy because it is what I appreciate others have done for me. But all here are free to offer support, empathy, and advice for the poster to consider and also to decide not to consider useful.

[unicorn2014]

Hi Coral, its ok. I'm still struggling with something my mother said. She thinks my partner broke my heart, it was my ex who broke my heart, ten years ago. A lot has changed since then. My mom likes my ex but she forgot everything he put me through. A lot of people like my ex. What my mom did on Christmas Day reminded me of how she treated me in middle school. If someone was mean to me, she took their side, likewise in my divorce. My head is still spinning. To make matters worse I saw my ex today and he was being really nice. Its great to be friends with someone, its great to get along with them, but being married to them is a whole different ballgame.

Notwendy you're fine by me. Here isn't where I have the problems, its on the relationship boards. My relationship with my mother is easy as pie compared to my relationship with my partner. That's where I really have problems.

Pessism, I appreciate your support. To be honest I am in a lot of pain, I think I feel betrayed by my mother for taking my ex's side. To her all that matters is he is a nice guy, she doesn't look beneath the surface. Unfortunately when you're married, what's beneath the surface matters.It also was triggering to watch my daughter and mother interact as they have a very different relationship then we do. All in all it was a difficult day for me.

[Notwendy]

Unicorn -it is common ( and discussed in relationship books) that our FOO dynamic influenced our choices of partners and the dynamics in relatipnships with them. One good thing is that understanding these dynamics in our FOO and learning emotionally heathy ways to relate to them can help us in all our relationships including our SO so keep learning as gaining skills with one can help with the other.

I understand the pain of having a mother betray you in a way.Our parents should be the first people we trust and who support us so that makes it very hurtful.

My situation is the opposite. My mother is severely affected and has been difficult. She has made up horrible untrue things about me and has caused rifts between me and other family members. So I know that kind of hurt and it is hard. The silver lining was that all those hurt feelings motivated to work on myself - knowing that how I grew up affected other relationships.

You are taking in a lot of information about different issues but know that when you grow- it helps you with all of them.