How best to deal with this?

[Lou12]

Hi all advice needed pls.

Things have been going semi ok with my BPD partner. I have seen slight improvements with his behaviour and I feel that using the validation techniques and by remaining calm and non reactive has helped loads.

However... I have noticed that he is constantly trying to push my boundaries further and further but very covertly so for example... He'll say I'll call you later but won't message til the next morning. I know these are all little subtle gas lighting/boundary pushing techniques to get me to crack and get angry.

Now the reason for this post... yesterday he hung up the telephone from me a couple of times and couldn't be bothered to communicate with me because he was busy with other people. This is an absolute noo noo for me! I'm angry and want to end the relationship because of his lack of respect. I want to end the relationship not because I don't want to be with him but to show him that that is absolutely not going to be accepted.

How can I best handle this situation? Please don't tell me to ignore it and carry on with my day! I need to show him that this will not be tolerated by making a stance about it. Thank you

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ProKonig]

BPD may result in childish boundary pushing, and you can set the boundaries wherever you want. I think many people set their boundaries too low: tolerating extreme verbal abuse, dangerous behaviour and public displays of extreme disrespect. What is important is you have a solid plan to enforce those boundaries and are willing to accept the consequences. If you cut him off and he never replies and you break up, is that something you can accept?

If him treating you like crap on the phone is a boundary for you... .inform him very clearly of that. The behaviour by the standards of some of the things on this forum seems tame, but I respect your desire set clear boundaries. But anyway, tell him what the consequences will be and follow through when he crosses the boundary. Making a stance is one thing... .but if it seems like 'posturing' and has no consequences other than 'harsh words' it won't work.

Good luck OP!

[Lou12]

Hi Pro and thank you for the reply.

Yes for me it was a boundary that was crossed because he had the ability to make me feel shamed about him hanging up on me like it was somehow my fault. This is what it won't tolerate, I'm unforgiving to certain behaviours as I accept them behaviours as his and part of who he is but when he makes me feel like I am responsible for his behaviours that's when I feel I have to set a boundary.

Of course this is now my dilemma! He loves to prove to me that he can break those boundaries but does it so it's just on the cusp of breaking them! He's very good at this gas lighting technique where I'm accused of 'over reacting' and 'thinking to much'.  If I set this as a strict boundary then he will be on a mission to crack that boundary, if I ignore it then I am not paying myself justice and consequently I end up feeling worse about myself and a resentment between us will build! If I go with option 'A' and set the strict boundary then that means we will break up for a few months until he comes back again! The thought of this kills me as I can't be bothered to miss him. Option 'B' means his behaviour will get worse until we break up anyway... and the cycle continues!

Suppose I looking for the in between option? But it probably doesn't exists!

[Lou12]

Just a thought but what about telling him firmly that that behaviour is very disrespectful and not something I will continually tolerate and then ask him if it's something that he could try to avoid doing in the future as it will result in us breaking up. In people experience would this type of communication work? Or am I not setting a clear boundary here?

[Lou12]

Or another thought... .what about playing a bit of reverse psychology? I say that I am not happy with that disrespectful behaviour but I am conscious that I am not responsible for your behaviour only my own, and I am not sure if this is a boundary I can trust that you won't break again. Therefore I feel we should both step back for a while and decide what we both want from this relationship and I need to decide if I am able to tolerate this type of disrespectful ness from you, as I feel it's possibly something I may have to deal with by having you in my life? Would this work in people experience or would this back fire?

[Lou12]

Or maybe end that last part by asking him, 'does he feel that this would be something I would have to tolerate in order for me to have him in my life'? Maybe by giving him the option he feels more in control?

[citadel]

I related to this. A lot.

I sadly have no insights or advice of value as I have yet to figure out how to deal with this myself. I can only offer that I understand precisely how this one feels. I hate it. I'm sorry you are having to feel this way, it really sucks.

[Lou12]

Hi Citadel,

Thank you for the moral support. It's very frustrating I know. In the last couple of hrs I've been blocked then unblocked from his phone! Not sure of the reason behind this behaviour? Very sad  

[waverider]

Hi Lou

Please restudy BOUNDARIES. It seems you are getting boundaries and 'wants/demands" mixed up.

A boundary means if this happens, then I do that action, and that prevents any exposure to the offending action. It requires no compliance on the part of the other person.

Once you attempt to negotiate boundaries you start getting work arounds and loopholes, until you don't even know what the boundary is as you move away from personally protecting you onto the debatable area of fairness and exceptions.

A pwBPD will not willingly comply with a boundary without enforcement, otherwise no boundary was necessary in the first place.

eg boundary would look like. Disrespectful behavior>walk away as long as you feel disrespected, each and every time, dont try to explain or lecture just do. You don't have to justify it, the boundary is about how you feel not the technicality of the issue at hand. Dont tell him what he should do, show him what happens when you are exposed to something that makes you feel bad enough to make a boundary.

Keep in mind boundaries should be kept to important (generally toxic) things and not to try to tailor someone to fit your requirements.

[Lou12]

Hi Waverider and thank you so much for your reply, it's much needed today as quite honestly I am at a loss as to how to deal with this?

The message I want to send across to him is... pls don't be so disrespectful as to just hang up the phone to me on two occasions because you don't want to speak to me. Personally I would never be so rude as to do that to someone and make them feel dismissed, irrelevant and unimportant which is how I felt.

This boundary is important to me as respect is important to me. Whilst I know he may not be able to love me like I want, I do want him to respect me.

My action so far has been to do nothing. I've made no contact since he hung up on me and he hasn't either. He did block me (on social media) very briefly yesterday but obviously thought twice about it as I was soon unblocked.

Please tell me what I should do here? Do I communicate my hurt? (I find his behaviours increase if he knows something bothers me). Do I just leave him to contact me? (A chance he may trigger and block me again if he thinks I'm leaving him). I honestly just don't know how to deal with this one but I do know for sure that I want him to think hard about doing it to me again. I could move on from it if the hang up was during an argument or he was really busy but the fact was he just couldn't be bothered to speak to me and I'm hurt over that.

HELP!  Thanks x

[Lou12]

So when you say 'no compliance' on my behalf then I assume you mean to completely have no contact until he contacts me?

[ProKonig]

Disrespectful behavior>walk away as long as you feel disrespected, each and every time, dont try to explain or lecture just do. You don't have to justify it, the boundary is about how you feel not the technicality of the issue at hand. Dont tell him what he should do, show him what happens when you are exposed to something that makes you feel bad enough to make a boundary.

This is solid advice! Words are wind, enforce it with calm and clear action.

[Lou12]

Great thank you. This is exactly what I have done and quite honestly what I feel I need to do. I just needed some reassurance and support that I was doing the right thing.

Now I've just got to hope he cares for me enough that he doesn't want to lose me  fingers crossed!

[waverider]

So when you say 'no compliance' on my behalf then I assume you mean to completely have no contact until he contacts me?

Whatever takes you to a place where it is not your problem to stress over, only past experience will tell you where that level is.

To some it may be a case of a short break of halting interaction and starting again, akin to " I will walk out the door and come back in and we can start again'. To others it may be talk to you next week/never unless I have good reason to feel more respected.

The idea is to get the problem out of your basket and back into his where it belongs

[thisworld]

This thread is tremendously helpful. Thank you everyone who is contributing.

So, one practical question because disrespect happens a lot in front of other people. We are at a dinner with friends, I feel disrespected. I'm ready to walk out. How exactly do I do it? Do I say anything to friends? To him?


Any comments will be appreciated.

[Lou12]

Hi thisworld glad it's helpful. I suppose the message being put across here is for you to react in such a way that it shows your BPD that this disrespect will not be tolerated. So if walking out for 5 mins air would stop him doing it again then that could work or maybe you would have to take it to an extreme of going home. Like Waverider said 'get it out of your basket and back into his where it belongs'.

Thank you Waverider, I've found your advice very helpful. I'm sticking by my guns and making no contact as I know it's definitely something I won't tolerate so I might as well stick it out. It's surprising how strong you can feel when a solid boundary has been crossed!

I would like to ask you Waverider about how I should go about the situation when contact is made? I'm thinking I should just simply state... 'I couldn't be around you when you do things like that to me, it's totally disrespectful, I would never treat you this way and pls don't do this again'? What you think?

Another thing is, how to BPDs usually react to a boundary being put in place?

[waverider]

I would like to ask you Waverider about how I should go about the situation when contact is made? I'm thinking I should just simply state... 'I couldn't be around you when you do things like that to me, it's totally disrespectful, I would never treat you this way and pls don't do this again'? What you think?

'I wont stay around when I feel disrespected, that is my value and my choice"

ie stick to "I " statements and what YOU are going to do. Using "you" statements is opening the door to being seen as trying to control him and telling what to do. A definite put down, that is bound to trigger a defensive response.  Working out what should happen so you dont feel that way is his problem, leave it in his basket to work out. Talk about YOUR feelings, YOUR values, and YOUR actions, these are your reality and no need to debate them

Another thing is, how to BPDs usually react to a boundary being put in place?

EXTINCTION BURST

This is easier to withstand the simpler and clear your boundary is. The more important the boundary also stiffens your resolve. If you cave to it you may encounter Intermittant Reinforcement consequencies (ie showing them that pestering more can still get results). Making future boundaries even harder to implement

More HERE

[Lou12]

Very helpful waverider thank you.

My concern is now that I have withdrew he has done the same so I am effectively getting ignored back! Any thoughts on the BPDs silent treatment when a boundary is enforced?

[waverider]

Very helpful waverider thank you.

My concern is now that I have withdrew he has done the same so I am effectively getting ignored back! Any thoughts on the BPDs silent treatment when a boundary is enforced?

Again dont get drawn into brinkmanship, when you are ready you can reach out and if the response is not to your liking back off again. You can't make him do anything. But there is no need to stick your hand in the fire if its still too hot.

pwBPD are rarely consistent, and abandonment issues often kick in so usually nothing stays the same for long. If it does, then thats just the way of it.

[Lou12]

Thanks Waverider!

This guys a stubborn one so I am not expecting to hear anytime soon regardless of how much I know he will suffer.

I have decided that reaching out to him is not an option for me at the moment. I need to stick to my guns on this one. It started with the 'returning my messages whenever suited' sometimes days or not at all then it was 'I'll call you later' but never did etc and after letting these things go on numerous occasions and just ignoring it it's now esculated to just switching me off! No way can I deal with that. And for once I have to find out if I am important enough for him to want to reach out to. If I don't carry this out then as far as I am concerned I'm doomed anyway!

Having my moments of struggling and just wanting to call him but I am doing lots of reading about the importance of strong boundaries with BPDs. It's hard though when your sat here just waiting and wondering if they are about to split you and never speak to you again. My friend said earlier 'the sooner you become unafraid of losing him, and know you will survive the better' and that's what I am trying to focus on. He done wrong and he needs to know I will not accept this.

[thisworld]

Thank you everyone for all the tips here.

'I wont stay around when I feel disrespected, that is my value and my choice"

So, I say this, apply this firmly and if he asks me what's happened I can say this. Then, our usual pattern would be how I misunderstand everything, etc. I don't JADE and validate his feelings perhaps, but nicely keep my ground. Do you think this would work?

I'm actually going gray rock, we are in LC (he sees this as one foot in the doorway). But at the same time, he has decided to move near the small small small town where I live and we are so bound to end up at the same table at one point. I live on the Meditteranean coast and it's like there will be a total of 20 people here until the summer:))

Your comments will help me a lot.

[formflier]

  Disrespectufl conversations (a polite way to put it) used to be a big feature of my r/s.  A combination of boundaries, validation and not reacting to provocation has tamped this issue down to a manageable level.  Step 1:  Be self aware.  If you are tired, cranky, not up for it.  Go quickly for boundaries.  It will be easy to make it about you.  "I'm not able to have this conversation now.  I'll check back with you after I finish my hot shower and hopefully feel better."  Go do self care.  I was bad about "pushing it" when I felt bad and then would react badly, say something bad and then things quickly went nuclear.  When I feel good.  I try to do active listening and figure out what the emotion is behind the complaint, gripe, grump that is being presented.  Validation done properly is an amazing thing.  I can really tell when I've found the target.  Be prepared to miss and have them be pissed about you "patronizing" them.  Don't worry about it, it will blow over and you can try again later.  Ok:  Final comments on the hanging up thing.  You're going to have to get over the bad behavior and take back power over you emotions.  Pause for effect, read the bold a couple of times.    You are getting pissed, upset, whatever that a disordered person is behaving badly.  Then, the plan is to "force" them, show them that this is not acceptable.  Somewhere in this thinking is most likely that they will see the error of their ways and behave properly.  Yeah, umm, not a good plan.   Don't feel bad about having the plan, I used to think that way too.    Once I changed tactics and "got over" some stuff, things really started changing.  There is a brighter future, So, I talked to my wife today for the first time in a couple days.  Her phone was off, she didn't answer, etc etc.  In the past I would have lectured her about responsibility, having an extra charger, blah blah blah.  Sure, I noticed she wasn't taking calls.  But I occupied my time with other things.  When it mattered today, I was able to track her down fairly quickly and speak to her.  It was a pleasant, positive conversation, I found something to validate even though she wasn't upset.  And then a shocker, everyone hold on for dear life, she asked me how I felt about selling the skidsteer   She listened for a while and when the phone call was over she seemed very genuine and caring.  If you had said a year ago my wife would ask me about my feelings about something and then listen in a respectful, non mocking way, I would have laughed pretty hard.  If you let them be who they are, and don't point out the wart on their nose, you will be amazed that over time the wart will get smaller.  Oh yeah:  Skidsteer has been favorite piece of equipment for a long time.  Should have sold it a couple years ago.  I am sad it's gone, but it was time.  Since moving off the farm really don't have much use for a lot of the equipment I still have.    

FF

[Lou12]

Hi Formflier thanks for the reply.

I'm confused now! So what are you saying? Do you think I have set the bar to high so to speak and their is no way he will follow?

I am really unsure if I am handling this this right way? I've still done nothing and have not heard anything.

My outcome of this post is to prevent him from being disrespectful about phone calls but I don't wish to lose him over it!

[formflier]

   My outcome of this post is to prevent him from being disrespectful about phone calls but I don't wish to lose him over it!

   You don't control what he does on the phone.  You don't control whether or not he stays with your or not.  You control if you stay.  You control if you listen/participate in disrespectful phone stuff.  Let that sit for a bit.  I'm not suggesting zero tolerance.   There is a certain amount you will have to put up with (but not react to).  When you decide to enforce your boundary, it is important how you do it and that you do it consistently.  This is a long term thing.  He initially will probably have worse behavior as he tries to get you back in line.  Relax

[waverider]

The moral here is the boundary is to protect you in times you feel hurt/disrespected.  It is not to correct his behavior and "make" him change. It may give him a heads up and an opportunity to change if he wishes. This is an outcome you can't control.

A certain level of acceptance and tolerance is required from us so that we dont make flippant boundaries. Boundaries must not be crossed, which means if you lose someone over them so be it. They may be tested with brinkmanship, so if you are attempting boundaries with the proviso that it doesn't upset them too much, they will be weak and you will fail.

If your boundary fails it will highlight your weakness with them, and hence trying to enforce another one will be even harder.

As you get better at dealing with these issues you learn to subtly disengage earlier to avoid hitting boundaries head on. Though constantly being hung up on is pretty black and white.

Hanging up can be a momentary impulse, so it may be possible to let it be known that if he does this, then shortly calling back when he has calmed down you will be willing to move on as normal. As opposed to the deliberate hang up then ignoring you which is not a momentary impulse. The idea being you dont want a moment of frustration to build into entrenched resentment. That way you are acknowledging that sometimes he has emotional overload.

Whatever you do don't apologize for having a boundary, that makes it sound reactionary rather than a considered position.