I want to reconcile but I know things probably won't work out

[1minuteatatime]

I don't know if she has it.  But she has been in therapy for a while.  Takes "time outs" at work(not at home).  She gets angry often over very little things with close family and now me.  She has one friend that doesn't see her often.  She is unhappy almost all of the time.  Seems miserable almost constantly.  Gets very lonely.  Huge fear of abandonment.  Seemed to want our relationship to go "perfect and in a certain structure.  She said that she was breaking up with me because I was "going to hurt her" and she needed to break it off first.  She needed a completely consuming love and I could not provide that.

I am having a tough day.  I want to reconcile with my ex-girlfriend but I know that in the long run, things

probably won't work out

. I reached out to either have her shut me down with a no response or respond and say that she would be willing to reconcile.  I got neither.  She got me to reconfirm that I wanted to try again and told me that she felt my love was conditional and hers wasn't.  I certainly will want stronger boundaries and a healthier overall vibe but that may not be possible with her.  She has said that she wants an "all consuming love".  I love her with all of my heart but I will not put her wants above mine any longer.  I do make sacrifices for her and have taken phone calls and listened to issues that she has in her life.  I told her yesterday that I need to be less insensitive and have thinner skin.  That she should have thicker skin.  I admitted that I am insensitive, blunt and messed up.  That we are both messed up. She said that because of my past experiences in life, she didn't feel that I can give her what she needs in a relationship.  That my skin was 10 inches thick and that I couldn't give her what she needs.  That very well may be true.  I certainly have told her in the past email that I was not going to drop everything at the last minute to see her one on one when she has a very difficult day at work.  That I would take her phone call and talk, that she could have met me where I was and talked about her bad day but that I had plans and it was a week that she normally didn't see me.  (she got very angry when I wouldn't drop everything to see her by myself)

She showed up on Christmas to drop off stuff I told her she could leave in my car or front door.  Instead she walked to my door.  I thought she wanted sex (stupid me) and the co-dependent in me tried.  (I swear I didn't want sex.  My co-dependency thought she did)

I am struggling with all of this because when I texted her she said "no"  I then called and she told me never to contact her again via text.  I will not contact her again.  ever.  I want to.  I really do.  But I respect her decision to never speak with me again if that is how this ends.  I am resigned to it.  She will not contact me unless she is truly willing to accept boundaries in our relationship.  She is separated.  She has gotten extremely jealous of very unattractive women in situations.  She told me that she was divorced in September but it is still pending.  

I also have acted in very co-dependent ways the month before the break up.  Not standing up for myself.  Letting her decide where we go(she started just not accepting me making plans to do anything)  Just wanted to stay home.  She said that one of the main reasons she pulled back was my seeming indifference to her.  Once she started becoming more angry, I pulled back and did become more indifferent.  Is that part of co-dependency?  Pulling back when anger is presented when it isn't warranted?  It's exactly what I did instead of just leaving.  I acted like a total pussy at the end instead of showing no care for the relationship, but care for myself(first) and her.(second).  She got pissed about the toilet seat(I forgot 3 times one night on accident).  I wasn't even aware i left the seat up.  I put my rubber sole on her wood furniture and confronted her about it(instead of saying it was ridiculous or asking what the real issue was)

Previous to the last month, I was strong, ok with myself and each time she said we should break up over some little thing or another, I said "if that is what you need to do".  For example:  I joked that I was going to eat a bug(eating bugs wouldn't bother me).  She said that if I ate a bug, she would break up.  I immediately said, "well, you might as well break up with me now, because I am a bug eater".  

The last time a break up conversation happened like that a week or two before breakup, I said that I would be a "workaholic" for a while if I took a certain job.  She said, if you do that, I would break up with you.  I said well, I could work from home and still be around you.  She said that still wouldn't work .  I then said that I probably wouldn't work there, anyway.  Somewhere else.  I know, I know.  Co-dependent as ___.

I think that I allowed her to wear me down and after the breakup, I told her I would not contact her for thirty days.  She contacted me on day 28(unneeded since she already dropped my other stuff in the car and these items are tiny and I told her I didn't need them anyway.  Well.  I emailed her back on day 31.  She said she couldn't drop the stuff, she had the kids.  Then  on day 37, I texted her saying I was thinking about her and that she could drop the stuff at my place whenever.  She came on day 39(Christmas)

She then asked if all I wanted was sex.  I told her, no.  I wanted to talk, too.  She asked if she could come over on 12/26.  I said yes.  She came over and I told her that I knew she wasn't divorced.  I made the incorrect assumption that she wanted to get back together.  I told her that both of us were lying about things, not keeping promises and that we would both need to change.  I have been very quiet about any feelings I have for her.  I care for her deeply, just not sure if I love her completely.  I don't express it.  Repress it.  Keep it locked inside.  

I text this morning and said:

She is likely right that we are not compatible.  That no matter what I have said, I care for her.  and to take care.  She knew that I wouldn't text again and called.  I didn't take her call because I was upset and didn't want to talk at that moment.  I told her over text that I could talk to her in 2 hours.  She said that she wanted me to tell her over text.  Asked if I wanted her to tell me that she wanted to try again.  I said:  yes, tell me.  That is when she blamed me for all/most of the issues and told me "no".  And never text.call again.  I have been on 3 dates(two bad ones) and have 2 more set for this week.  just getting back out there.  Thoughts?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[livednlearned]

What kind of therapy is she in?

People with BPD require some communication skills that don't often come intuitively to us. Do you feel like learning these skills are something you want to work on?

[1minuteatatime]

Yes.  She is in individual therapy and has been for a while.  I actually think it is DBT because of how well she communicates her feelings.  I have been poor at validating.  She said that "I have no feelings, that if the world ended today, I would be like... . oh well"  and I immediately said I disagreed with the feelings part.  Said that I had feelings, I just hide them.  She is actually very cognizant of her emotions.  At first, she would leave if she got upset and then come back.  (I let her run, didn't chase since that is not what I do)  One of my issues is poor communication.  I broached our communication issues early in the relationship and she did not like it at all.  I bought "high conflict couple" last night on Amazon.  My family thinks that she will come back in 1-3 weeks.  She has every other time. She is miserable normally and alone almost all of the time.  I have very deep feelings for her but I refuse to give up my autonomy for her.

I am a ESTP on Briggs-meyers.  Is that a poor match?  ESTP's are also prone to co-dependency... .

Strengths:  Bold, rational/practical, original, perceptive, direct, sociable

Weaknesses:  Insesitive, impatient, Risk prone(gambled when bored as a youth), unstructured, may miss the bigger picture, defiant.

Do you think she will return?  :)o I keep it light and fun at first if she does?  I have never taken an ex-girlfriend back.  She told me that she was shocked when I said that I would consider it.  One big problem was me assuming she wanted back since she showed up. I gave a list of things that we would need to do.  Honesty on big things, etc.  She has shown a ton of vulnerability to me.  Told me she was a "sensitive person".  Told me that she got defensive when I gave a bunch of conditions.  

I have never had a girlfriend as jealous as she gets.  Afraid of abandonment like something I have never seen.  Lonely and alone.  

She shared so many of her thoughts with me about anger directed at others but I get really angry and just keep it in sometimes.  Like I said, we are both messed up(All of us are on some level)  I have lost a sister and father to suicide.  Lost another sister to death at 2 yrs old.  My ex-wife cheated on me and had a kid with another guy while I was married.  I was extremely co-dependent with her because I wanted to be near the kids.  Once I started being myself with my ex-wife(more assertive), she pushed the divorce.(which was actually fine with me)  I am better alone than with my ex-wife.  

I may actually be more than 50% of the problem in the relationship with my ex-girlfriend.  My ex-wife certainly has BPD and I was very careful to avoid the idealization phase in the beginning with my now ex-girlfriend.  I told her over and over:  You know that I am not perfect, right?  

She routinely wakes up in the middle of the night with night terrors.  One time she said "did you fight with me?" and was crying.  I said "no, I am not fighting with you"  She said that the dream seemed so real, and that I was extremely angry with her.  I told her:  "We will fight at times no matter what, we'll just deal with it when it happens".  She seemed ok and just had me hold her.  The last time she woke up crying in the night(three days before the break-up), I just pulled her close until she seemed ok.

She told me that she needs me to hold her more.  I learned to not initiate, just accept when she wants to cuddle.  I was ok with that.  I didn't(and don't feel) that it is a co-dependent behavior to do that.

She apologized for lying about being divorced in September but said she did it because she knew that I didn't like that she was still married and bitter at her husband.  I admitted that I didn't like it but said that I am a "big boy" and I can handle honesty.

Additional thoughts on communication?  Again, do you think she will reach out in a few weeks?  I didn't say that I would wait.  I didn't say anything other than I want the best for her and to take care of herself.

edit from first post:


I am struggling with all of this because when I texted her yesterday she said "no" to trying the relationship again after texting for 1 1/2 hours.  I then called immediately and she told me never to contact her again via text or phone.(she texted me that)  That she would not respond.  I sent one last text immediately after and then sent no more.  I will not contact her again.  ever.  I want to.  I really do.  But I respect her decision to never speak with me again if that is how this ends.  I am resigned to it.  I don't think she will contact me unless she is truly willing to accept boundaries in our relationship.  She is separated.  She has gotten extremely jealous of very unattractive women in situations.  She told me that she was divorced in September but it is still pending.  

[1minuteatatime]

Another thing that came up(keep in mind, she broke up with me the day before her wedding anniversary).  When she came over on 12/26/15, very shortly before she left she said:  So we are "nothing"?  I really didn't know what to say because we certainly are/were not together.  I honestly said:  "No" but I honestly had/have no idea what "we" are.  I also admit that I sent the text saying:  "You are likely right, we are not compatible.  I wish you the best"  to get a response or nothing(confirming we are done.  That probably was not healthy of me.  She called me out on doing that and said:  "is this what you want, me blowing up your phone?"  It was tough.  I don't get too emotional, but I did in those couple of hours.  When I called her after the 1 1/2-2 hours, I could tell she had been crying for a while.  Bad move if I want to reconcile.  Especially since I didn't take her call 1 1/2 hrs before.  In some ways, we are so much alike.  I fear abandonment(too) but accept it if it happens. 

Since she knows that reconcile is possible, will she likely reach out after a while?

[livednlearned]

She is in individual therapy and has been for a while.  I actually think it is DBT because of how well she communicates her feelings.

 

That's a positive sign -- she's acknowledged there is something she wants to improve, and she's in therapy. That takes a lot of courage, effort, and commitment.

I have been poor at validating.

This may be the single-most important thing you can work on. It will help you in any relationship.

She said that "I have no feelings, that if the world ended today, I would be like... . oh well"  and I immediately said I disagreed with the feelings part.  Said that I had feelings, I just hide them.

It's human nature, when someone accuses of us something we don't like, to "justify, argue, explain, or defend" (JADE). In a BPD relationship, you can minimize a lot of conflict if you avoid doing this. Try to stay on topic with her, and validate what she is feeling. This takes a lot of strength and centering to do, it can also be very effective very quickly.

A validating response to her comment might be, "I can understand how you would feel that way." Or ask her a validating question. "How you feel when I don't xyz?"

She is actually very cognizant of her emotions. At first, she would leave if she got upset and then come back.  (I let her run, didn't chase since that is not what I do).

Time outs can be a good idea, especially if she is trying to regulate her emotions and collect her thoughts.

I have very deep feelings for her but I refuse to give up my autonomy for her.

What do you mean by autonomy? This can mean different things. If you mean that you want to remain emotionally aloof, that is going to be tough for her, or for anyone in an intimate relationship. If you mean autonomy as in boundaries that you assert because they align with your values, that is slightly different.

One mistake I made was to be really tight when I asserted boundaries. It has taken a lot of practice and work to realize I can be empathetic while enforcing a boundary, and this has largely boiled down to communication skills like validation and S.E.T. (support, empathy, truth).

Do you think she will return?  :)o I keep it light and fun at first if she does?  I have never taken an ex-girlfriend back.  She told me that she was shocked when I said that I would consider it.  One big problem was me assuming she wanted back since she showed up. I gave a list of things that we would need to do.  Honesty on big things, etc.  She has shown a ton of vulnerability to me.  Told me she was a "sensitive person".  Told me that she got defensive when I gave a bunch of conditions.

 

It sounds like there is a pattern there where she returns. The question is how to adapt and learn skills so that you can have a less volatile relationship going forward. The High Conflict Couple may help a lot -- it's also based on DBT skills.

Keeping it light seems like a good idea. No one wants to come back to a relationship and be confronted with a list of conditions.

[1minuteatatime]

livednlearned-

You don't know how much I appreciate the feedback.  I know that she is trying hard.  I wasn't.  She accused me of pulling back and being aloof(I was) and that I didn't seem to care.  I sensed that she wasn't being honest, and I pulled back.  Then she pulled back.  and on and on. 

I am happy that you said that you think she will return.  I hope she does but I am seeing other people, too.(not just stopping life for her)  Also applying for better jobs in my field(I make decent money), working out, drinking less, trying to stop eating all the xmas candy. 

I just hope that she gives me another chance.  We both deserve it.  I will try to be more vulnerable.  She called me out saying that I wasn't vulnerable over text.  I told her that I wanted to try again and that is very vulnerable for me to do.  My issue is probably that I expect abandonment after losing my dad to suicide.(today is the 14th anniversary of his death)  I am sure that plays into my emotions as my ex told me that I get very angry around Thanksgiving and Christmas.  I admitted that to my ex-girlfriend.  I told her that I have deep pain surrounding my dad(he was my best friend in this world)  Tough day for me today.  At least my sister is taking her RN boards today and will probably pass!

Thanks again. 

P.S.  Do you think my uncle is correct and she will reach out in 1-3 weeks?(she knows I won't reach out)  He has typically been correct with observations about her and I.   I also have never been told by an ex to not text or call.  First time ever. 

[1minuteatatime]

I have very deep feelings for her but I refuse to give up my autonomy for her.

What do you mean by autonomy? This can mean different things. If you mean that you want to remain emotionally aloof, that is going to be tough for her, or for anyone in an intimate relationship. If you mean autonomy as in boundaries that you assert because they align with your values, that is slightly different. I mean hanging out with friends, taking my bike rides.  I was also aloof emotionally and admitted it to her.  Need to work hard on that.

One mistake I made was to be really tight when I asserted boundaries. It has taken a lot of practice and work to realize I can be empathetic while enforcing a boundary, and this has largely boiled down to communication skills like validation and S.E.T. (support, empathy, truth).  Ok.  Flexibility is key?  If we decide to reconcile, I will be aware of that.  Is it situational?


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