Actually, I am stalking her

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

OK, so - I am going through some "fake NC phase"... .

After I broke up with her, blocked her from messaging apps, FB etc

There are several reasons why I did it: fear considering all the stories I have read here, I couldn't stand to see her joyful comments to her friends, ... .

BUT (this is the reason why I call it fake NC) I often go to her social network pages "to check the situation". Actually, I am stalking her.

Don't really know why, obviously I am still feeling strong emotions, just few minutes ago I saw her new picture, she looks beautiful (I already stated in my previous topics that she is celebrity in my country, so I really think that she is the best looking girl I ever had, and I will ever have. I know we often say this, but I am pretty sure it is the fact in my case )

But the worst part , is that physical appearance is really secondary thing. Her personality (before BPD revealing phase is something special, this is also experience of the people that she is not so emotionally connected)


Recently I started to read a lot about what a true love is (Fromm, Buddhist materials, psycho-sociology books etc). Everything makes sense. I know that she can't make me happy. I need to make myself happy. This whole society is messed up. All the books that we learn in school, all the movies, all "social" rules make us feel this way, to nurture those unhealthy relationships and feelings. It is really scary stuff... .

I really have mixed feelings now.

I see her pretending to be happy. Smiling on that picture. Looking as nothing else is important, just that moment when the picture was taken.

But I know that she is not happy. Despite that, a part of me still wants to be part of those her feelings. Really do.

And I know all the reasons: because I feel lonely now, sad, hurt, confused... .But it is just so hard.

Last few days, I am really thinking to reach out, to contact her. The rational part of me questions this, but emotional part of me has several arguments:

She is in therapy

I was actually scared of BPD when I learned what it is, and run away (after 3 months of r/s)

Didn't set any firm boundaries during our r/s. Now my emotional part thinks that I have learned a lot about BPD. I didn't experience the things like cheating, lying etc. "Just" emotional ups and downs. Am I crazy got thinking that I would accept the breakup more easily in case that I have experienced that?

[blackbirdsong]

OK, so - I am going through some "fake NC phase"... .

After I broke up with her, blocked her from messaging apps, FB etc

There are several reasons why I did it: fear considering all the stories I have read here, I couldn't stand to see her joyful comments to her friends, ... .

BUT (this is the reason why I call it fake NC) I often go to her social network pages "to check the situation". Actually, I am stalking her.

Don't really know why, obviously I am still feeling strong emotions, just few minutes ago I saw her new picture, she looks beautiful (I already stated in my previous topics that she is celebrity in my country, so I really think that she is the best looking girl I ever had, and I will ever have. I know we often say this, but I am pretty sure it is the fact in my case )

But the worst part , is that physical appearance is really secondary thing. Her personality (before BPD revealing phase is something special, this is also experience of the people that she is not so emotionally connected)


Recently I started to read a lot about what a true love is (Fromm, Buddhist materials, psycho-sociology books etc). Everything makes sense. I know that she can't make me happy. I need to make myself happy. This whole society is messed up. All the books that we learn in school, all the movies, all "social" rules make us feel this way, to nurture those unhealthy relationships and feelings. It is really scary stuff... .

I really have mixed feelings now.

I see her pretending to be happy. Smiling on that picture. Looking as nothing else is important, just that moment when the picture was taken.

But I know that she is not happy. Despite that, a part of me still wants to be part of those her feelings. Really do.

And I know all the reasons: because I feel lonely now, sad, hurt, confused... .But it is just so hard.

Last few days, I am really thinking to reach out, to contact her. The rational part of me questions this, but emotional part of me has several arguments:

She is in therapy

I was actually scared of BPD when I learned what it is, and run away (after 3 months of r/s)

Didn't set any firm boundaries during our r/s. Now my emotional part thinks that I have learned a lot about BPD. I didn't experience the things like cheating, lying etc. "Just" emotional ups and downs. Am I crazy got thinking that I would accept the breakup more easily in case that I have experienced that?

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey BBS-

Actually, I am stalking her.  :)on't really know why... .

And there's where it would be good to dig, what is that drive in you that makes keeping tabs on her attractive, or not looking painful?  And you may find that the gift of the relationship is the results you get from digging into the reasons you feel like you do and the drives you're feeling.

One possibility is a trauma bond, something that forms between an abuser and the abused that gets stronger and harder to break free of the longer it goes on.  Another possibility is she triggers unresolved feelings you've had since you were a child, feelings you felt growing up in your family.  Lots of growth available to you there.

Recently I started to read a lot about what a true love is (Fromm, Buddhist materials, psycho-sociology books etc). Everything makes sense. I know that she can't make me happy. I need to make myself happy. This whole society is messed up. All the books that we learn in school, all the movies, all "social" rules make us feel this way, to nurture those unhealthy relationships and feelings. It is really scary stuff... .

Yes, it can help to get existential and trace the origins of our beliefs and values.  To a point.  And you're right that we create our own happiness, we're as happy as we decide to be, although happiness might not be the goal, there may be contentment, connection, fulfillment, and love in there too, and the books you're reading are good, they can help you refocus your search for 'answers' from outside to inside, and maybe we needed to see what looking to the culture and the media for direction feels like first, as we search for the way that works for us.  You're on a great path BBS, keep going... .

[enlighten me]

Because he is addicted. The good was so good that the parts of his brain that kick out happy chemicals where in over drive. Now he isn't get that supply he is going cold turkey.

[blackbirdsong]

Because he is addicted. The good was so good that the parts of his brain that kick out happy chemicals where in over drive. Now he isn't get that supply he is going cold turkey.

Yes, exactly. I really think this is an addiction. Unhealthy, as any other addiction.

I really need that fix of her, like a junkie.

Wow.

At least, I am aware of that. Happy holidays to all of us  

[enlighten me]

It gets easier over time. Try doing things that make you happy (easier said than done) Think of her like giving up cigarettes (if you have ever done that) When you don't think about them your ok but as soon as you do you crave one. Distraction, distraction, distraction is the key in the beginning.

[fromheeltoheal]

Yes, exactly. I really think this is an addiction. Unhealthy, as any other addiction.

I really need that fix of her, like a junkie.

Yes, like a junkie, but not a junkie.  A junkie ingests psychoactive chemicals that alter his brain chemistry; there is no "chemical" with her, there are thoughts, which generate feelings, which generate behaviors, and some of those thoughts might be subconscious.  Any idea what they might be BBS?

[enlighten me]

In a way its worse. We create the serotonin and dopamine when those feelings are triggered. We don't need to go and find the supply because we produce it. They are just the trigger for these feelings.

Like an adrenaline junkie who has to do more and more dangerous things to get the rush.

[fromheeltoheal]

In a way its worse. We create the serotonin and dopamine when those feelings are triggered. We don't need to go and find the supply because we produce it. They are just the trigger for these feelings.

Like an adrenaline junkie who has to do more and more dangerous things to get the rush.

Yep, exactly, and those chemicals are created by thoughts; change the thoughts, change the chemicals, change the feeling.  Any hint as to what those thoughts might be BBS?  What are you thinking as you're on your computer about to click onto her social network page?  What thoughts trigger you?

[blackbirdsong]

In a way its worse. We create the serotonin and dopamine when those feelings are triggered. We don't need to go and find the supply because we produce it. They are just the trigger for these feelings.

Like an adrenaline junkie who has to do more and more dangerous things to get the rush.

Yep, exactly, and those chemicals are created by thoughts; change the thoughts, change the chemicals, change the feeling.  Any hint as to what those thoughts might be BBS?  What are you thinking as you're on your computer about to click onto her social network page?  What thoughts trigger you?

It is really a strange thing.

I consider myself a lot stronger than before (not just considering the period that I spent with her, but even before I met her). I consider this relationship as a life-changing event in my life. Before this relationship I was much more insecure person (the fact that I am aware now).

I started therapy, additional inner-self work, know my issues and working on them etc.

Now I am aware that she cannot make me happy. And that I cannot make her a full person with self-recognition (because that is one of the BPD threats and symptoms).

BUT... .

I enjoy her qualities. She is a really smart and intelligent person (I really have a great university background and professional science carrier but I consider her much more intelligent than I am, without downgrading myself and my qualities). She has a great sense of humor. I really liked to spent my time with her.

So, the fact that is pushing me to check her profile is actually a feeling of hope. I am looking to see if she is going to post something related to us. Or to post something that will show me that she has continue, maybe with new person in her life (that will be a sign that I wasn't love of her life that she said, because you cannot switch that quick from something that meant to you so much)?   Deep inside I want her to reach out. I want her to contact me. Even tough I broke up with her, something inside of me, my emotional part?, wants to try again, wants that she contacts me. I know that she is in therapy, she didn't do too drastic stuff like I am reading here (well, to be honest, at least I don't know that). My therapist also said that I got really scared, I literally ran for my life after one event that was too emotionally intense for me. The event that made me think that I cannot do this. Before her, I didn't have a real relationship so it is hard for me to recognize what is a real BPD issue and what is maybe my issue because of the fact that actual intensive relationship is also a new thing for me. (first real girlfriend and the fact that she is BPD, nice huh?)

So, yeah - the hope is established by the fact that I consider myself stronger than before... .And that I also brought some issues (first real relationship, rookie issue) into our relationship.

But the rational part of my is saying that this doesn't matter, that she is emotionally unstable person (although a great one) and that she still expects the same stuff from my side. And that maybe I wouldn't be so "unhealthy" bonded to her if I try again, but she would be the same person?

The thing that is most confusing to me and what is my ultimate question is ":)id I trigger her BPD issues more by having my own issues (first relationship, personal insecurities etc)" If I work on them, can the recycle be successful if she is aware of BPD and also works on it?

This really bugs me... .

Also, I am aware of that, like I said, that she cannot make me a happy person. But I need to do that myself. But why cannot I then be with someone with who I enjoy spending time with? And yes, there were emotional downs during our relationship. But also, if she cannot make me a happy person, then she shouldn't be able to make me a unhappy person, I cannot take too personal her BPD issues... .

Too confusing, too many questions... .

 

[Herodias]

I understand... .I did that until just a few days ago. It's not totally letting go I suppose. I wanted to see the pattern repeat. I have... .now there is nothing I want to know anymore. I don't really miss all the spying I was doing. It is helping me move on not to look-. I am finding other things to do. It is really hard believe me I know. I don't really want to see all the pretend happiness with his new gf and their eventual baby that is going to end up with her parents at some point and time. I know this to be true. I know how the story will end. Too bad she didn't ask me first, Stupid cheating girl has allot to learn. I have been there done that- ready for the good things to happen in my life now. Mind you, I was not a cheater, never will be. Just too needy and have learned to be by myself and be happy. I am not going to tell you not to look, because I know it will not stop until you are ready. Just know that just because you see something on social media, doesn't mean it is a fact.

[Newton]

blackbirdsong  I want to extend to you heartfelt congratulations... .. Perhaps you don't quite appreciate the significance of what you have personally acheived with this post just yet... .but others do.  If I had your honesty and insight 114 posts in... .my recovery would have been sooner, but we all have our path  .

So often now with my new found understanding I may appear confrontational to 'detaching' members who are kidding themselves with denial of how dysfunctional their behaviour is... .I walked in their shoes, I posted similar and my posts now are ignored in their thread in favour of those that validate the immediate grief being experienced... .so I move on. (red stars back in the day elicited response... .thus is the nature of 'celebrity'  ... .)  I want to shake them, awake them... .to avoid yet more pain but also attempt to hold back as I am all too aware of how controlling my actions could be... .what a fine line to tread!  

Posts like yours are why I continue... .why I want to pay back... .because others who did this before helped me to wake up to my personal responsibility in the relationship(s).

fromheeltoheal has suggested and then elaborated on such a fundamental idea here.  Imo it's integral to recovery for pwBPD and 'nons' (and something that should be fundamental in childhood schooling).  The premise that we as individuals have ultimate power over our thoughts... .our lives reflect the construct that we create with those... .our feelings follow suit. (BPD being the opposite equation). I think it's really important you pursue this line of enquiry and introspection... .

I do hope members here appreciate how honest blackbirdsong has been with this thread and how much it could help everyone here... .what a refreshing alternative to the rant fest the 'detaching' board can look like at times!... .

[fromheeltoheal]

So, the fact that is pushing me to check her profile is actually a feeling of hope.

Very nice BBS, great self awareness and honesty.  To go from a little bit of hope to no hope at all is a huge leap, a letting go entirely, and while that doesn't take much work, just let go, it is very difficult, but it is also necessary to detach.  

My therapist also said that I got really scared, I literally ran for my life after one event that was too emotionally intense for me. The event that made me think that I cannot do this. Before her, I didn't have a real relationship so it is hard for me to recognize what is a real BPD issue and what is maybe my issue because of the fact that actual intensive relationship is also a new thing for me. (first real girlfriend and the fact that she is BPD, nice huh?)

I understand.  And I did the same thing, fled the relationship, more angry than scared, but fled nonetheless, to get as far away from her and those emotions as possible.  Relationships can be confusing and emotional enough, especially the first one, and throw a personality disorder into the mix and it can feel like insanity.  I understand.

The thing that is most confusing to me and what is my ultimate question is ":)id I trigger her BPD issues more by having my own issues (first relationship, personal insecurities etc)" If I work on them, can the recycle be successful if she is aware of BPD and also works on it?

This really bugs me... .

Your inner critic can beat the crap out of you on that one, but consider this: did you do your best?  Regardless of where you are in life and in relationships, did you do your best?  If the answer is yes, then it doesn't really matter if she has a personality disorder or not, you did your best and it didn't work.  With the right girl your best will be more than enough, that is the absolute truth.

Also, I am aware of that, like I said, that she cannot make me a happy person. But I need to do that myself. But why cannot I then be with someone with who I enjoy spending time with? And yes, there were emotional downs during our relationship. But also, if she cannot make me a happy person, then she shouldn't be able to make me a unhappy person, I cannot take too personal her BPD issues... .

Too confusing, too many questions... .

Your happiness is your responsibility, and humans are social animals, born to connect, so even if you do everything right and create your own personal bliss it will still feel like something is missing without someone to connect with.

I don't know if reconciling with her is possible, but if you want to and you're stronger now there's no reason not to, although I wouldn't recommend it because that was your first relationship, and it would be better to go out with someone else just because it's someone else.

I consider this relationship as a life-changing event in my life.

Yes, they usually are, especially the ones that put us in a lot of emotional pain, but the good news is that the growth we do as we detach and heal is the gift of the relationship, as your life changes for the better.  Take care of you!

[joel6242]

First I appreciate the honesty. Since Christmas Eve I decided I really needed to let go and the next day I had to decide what I really wanted. Did I want to go back and go through yet another hell or do I want to move forward. Do I want to break free and live.

I will throw out my honesty, my situation happened twice in my life. My last exBPD tried to make out like he had a  restraining order on me. I see so clearly that they really need to be the victim to escape the reality of their actions. What he did to me is so bad that two judges ruled in two domestic violence cases that he was guilty within 10 minutes. I also tried to get even due to what he did to me, that did nothing to make me feel good.

I will be posting an update but I will never win this battle and need to walk away. In time you will see that the game has to stop and just like in my case we have to concentrate on ourselves.

[Newton]

joel6242... .Imo you defined the objective of this board in a post... .the only way to 'win' in this predicament (relationship with a pwBPD who isn't showing recovery with behaviour)... .is to identify the 'game' intellectually/emotionally. Identify their part in it, our part in it... .and CHOOSE not to play... .simple

Not attempting to put words in your mouth... .please discuss 

[blackbirdsong]

Thank you for your words of support. I appreciate it, but don't understand yet, nothing to be too proud of yourself... . 

Yesterday I also started reading "Stop Walking on Eggshells" - every book I start to read, I realize and detect additional BPD mechanisms and patterns that I didn't know before.

With every text I feel more and more sorry for my BPD partner. It must be a living hell to go through this... .I was considering myself a victim of this relationship just after the breakup, but now I am aware that I didn't put any healthy boundaries and by doing that I triggered her BPD behavior even more. Not that I judge myself too hard, I am just very sad that I didn't know these patterns before. Not just patterns, but my inner issues also, and the fact that I abandoned myself in order to "save her". She didn't ask that, even better, always stated that I shouldn't fulfill her irrational requests... .Also, this is one of the reasons that warms up my hope... .

Currently, I am not sure why am I doing this. Why are we all doing this?

My rational part of me says that I am here to learn about BPD, so that I don't fall in a trap of finding BPD partner again.

My emotional part of me secretly collects material so that it can be armed to deal with Her in case recycle occurs. Yes, admit still thinking about that. Every day.

I am currently in really messed up phase. I learned a lot about BPD, really did. I know a lot of "tricks" regarding splitting, dissociation, projection, object consistency, object persistence, ... .

The problem is that I now see her as wounded person, someone who needs to deal with this every day. I see her "crazy" moments differently now.  I don't see her as a bad person, the person I ran away from. My savior complex is triggered (?): blackbirdsong comes, hugs her, he knows everything about BPD and saves the day.

But then again, when I read those horrible stories, the stories that prove to you that even the slightest trigger from your side can produce cheating, lying, manipulation - it makes me wonder can I handle this

So, my friends, I am really confused right now... .Not even sure am I trying to be NC, or to be her "improved" boyfriend or to be her friend because I found BPD to hard obstacle to love someone. It seems that love doesn't prevail, after all - it was just a funny story from my childhood, huh?

[enlighten me]

BBS I can relate to this. I too came looking for answers and a part of me thought that being better armed that I could maybe prevail. Since then I have come to realise that the only way I could help either of my exs is if they became self aware and where serious about seeking therapy.

[C.Stein]

BBS I can relate to this. I too came looking for answers and a part of me thought that being better armed that I could maybe prevail. Since then I have come to realise that the only way I could help either of my exs is if they became self aware and where serious about seeking therapy.

I too came to believe this and also realized that regardless of how I might handle myself differently, core issues with her will still remain until she sees her behavior and actions for what they are ... .i.e. be more self-aware.  Without the ability to look at herself and see how the things she does impacts the people closest to her nothing will change.  I truly want to believe she is capable of this but it means she will have to accept responsibility for her actions and behavior.   More importantly be able to avoid the actions and behavior that are so destructive.

This is something I question if she is capable of doing on a long term basis ... .and things will eventually return to how they were.   Even when she appears to accept responsibility, in her own mind I don't think she is accepting anything.  What she says is not a true reflection of what she feels, there is always an excuse.   To accept responsibility for hurtful actions and behavior means (to her) that she would also have to accept she is a "bad" person.  You can see the problem here.  So even if she outwardly seems to be self-aware inside her mind she is still in denial ... .and nothing will ever really change.

[blackbirdsong]

Actually, this self-awareness is something that is really bothering me. Probably the most important concept in my hoping to recycle our relationship.  Luckily, I can still control this feeling.

When I started to learn about BPD, I realized that many things she said to me regarding her "state" were really correct, and during our relationship I didn't accept them or tried to fully apply them. This is a reason I believed, after the breakup, that she is very self-aware.

But know I am not so sure.

For example, she is a textbook example of BPD behavior. Every my action that didn't include her, triggered feelings that I don't love her enough, that I am going to leave her. My every message that didn't include "warm words" meant that I am not loving her. Her projections about my bad behavior and not caring  about our relationship mirror her thoughts how she isn't worth of my loving. etc etc

Now I would like that she explained all of this to me, so I could react in a different way. That would be something I would expect of the person who is aware of her problems. But no, she didn't explain this in this way. I didn't understand it till the end. I knew that she is in therapy, but didn't understand the main concept of BPD. Am I trying to justify myself with this?   

Then these events wouldn't produce so big gap between us, because I didn't understand it. I took it too personally. I didn't know what a projection was.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey BBS-

It's common, as we learn about the disorder, to feel sorry for our exes, and also wonder what things would have been like if we knew then what we know now.  And that ties into the hope, if we'd only been better, if we'd only known, things wouldn't have happened the way they did, maybe we can try again, now that I know, things will be different.  That's still holding on, not detaching, we've all done it, but if you try and look at the relationship objectively, from an emotionally detached place, and ask yourself could your ex meet your needs and wants sustainably?  If you make it about you and your needs, is this a woman you want to be in a relationship with?  If the answer is yes, then it's yes, although we can get caught up in the emotion when these relationships end, and objectivity escapes us.

Don't know if you've read it, but here's a great article from this site: https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality

[enlighten me]

It might sound strange but the thing I think about when I have thoughts of would it work is tomato ketchup.

I cant stand the stuff and my exgf uses it all the time. She even uses it in cooking. It plays on a deep rooted disgust. Its not her bad behaviours that put me off as I can now see they where drive by the disorder but something relatively normal which to me shows we are not compatible.

Maybe finding something normal that you don't like would help. I think food is a good one though as we either love something or hate it.