Is this poor executive control?

[unicorn2014]

 

On my phone so please excuse any mistakes.

So today my SO was supposed to meet with an attorney.

I looked her up.

She is a bankruptcy attorney.

On Memorial Day 2013 or 2014 my pwBPD had told me he was going to withdraw his divorce and file for bankruptcy.

In September 2015 I found out no divorce had been filed.

I pointed this out to my pwBPD and he got extremely defensive and told me he had asked me to find a lawyer for him. Both my dad and I had told him to call up the bar association. I called my dad and verified with him this was a good plan of action.

I told my dad I didn't know why my pwBPD was acting this way when my dad told me my pwBPD knows what to do.

So is this poor executive control on his part?

He canceled the appointment with the bankruptcy attorney and said I had to find him an attorney I liked.

[GaGrl]

I would define poor executive control in terms of his ability to handle cognitive and emotional regulation. Stretching it quite a bit, perhaps this might qualify under poor cognition.

However, I believe you said that he had filed for divorce and then withdrew the filing. Did he use a bankruptcy lawyer to file his previous divorce petition?

In any case, it is so NOT your responsibility to find him a lawyer that is acceptable to you. This is a precursor to blame-shifting.

He hasn't really done anything to advance the divorce, has he?

[unicorn2014]

I forgot who he used to file the first time he said he was filing for  divorce in this marriage but there was no record of that filing in the court system .

Blame shifting, I don't know that term.

He just accused me of breaking up with him because I established this boundary with him.

This is the second time he is divorcing this woman, this is actually his second marriage to her.

I told him my dads suggestion to either call the bar or use the lawyer he used the first time he divorced her and he said it was my job to find him a divorce lawyer I approved of.

I'm going to try to stand my ground. Previously I've not been able to but I think I'm ready to now.

What lesson would blame shifting fall under?

[babyducks]

Hi Unicorn,

blame shifting is an abusive tactic to avoid taking responsibility.   it often comes in the form of,  if you hadn't done X I wouldn't have done Y.    If you hadn't made me so mad I wouldn't have hit you.   

'ducks

[unicorn2014]

Thank you ducks, I'm reading skips article on the detachment board https://bpdfamily.org/2010/12/leaving-person-with-borderline_28.html?m=1

I'm very confused right now.

My pwBPD is telling me it me my job to choose a lawyer for him.

I know it's not.

He is claiming I complain about the lawyers he is choosing.

All I said to him this morning was his attorney was a bankruptcy attorney and he told me he wasn't filing for bankruptcy , canceled the appointment and told me it was my job to find him a lawyer I approved of. I told him to call the bar association and ask for a referral to a divorce lawyer and let me know when he had done this. He's refusing to do that and insisting I call the bar for him.

I don't know what to do.

[daughterandmom]

Hi unicorn2014

I have been reading your posts and keeping up on your situation. I can see that it is causing you a lot of distress. I am sorry you have so much to deal with.

Excuse me for being blunt- I don't intend to be hurtful in any way, but why do you want to make things work with this guy? He's married to someone else. As far as I can gather he has taken no steps to fix that, and even when he does, why do you want him? It seems like it's been years and years of trouble. Daily drama. Do you imagine life with him will be peaceful once you are married? I understand you goal is to get him to actually file, and you are trying to assert a boundary on that. But what then? What are you going to do once you "win" him?

And you have a 15 year old daughter, right? How would you feel if she was in a situation like this? Is this the example you want to model for her?

Once again- I don't mean to be hurtful. But for your 15 year old daughter I think the best thing you could give her is a stable, peaceful environment to mature in. That's what so many of us on this board didn't have. And it's drama all the time now. Marrying this guy isn't going to fix that.

[babyducks]

He's refusing to do that and insisting I call the bar for him.

I don't know what to do.

This is brinksmanship.  He keeps moving the bar and setting it higher and farther away.   It seems very unlikely that engaging will get you any positive results.

[unicorn2014]

Hi daughter and, my daughter does have a peaceful and stable environment. I have already taught my daughter what to look for in a guy so she will not end up divorced like me. This isn't about her. My pwBPD wants to marry me and in order for him to do that he has to divorce his wife. I'm giving him an opportunity to do that. If I decide to leave in the future I will move over to the leaving board.

[unicorn2014]

Baby ducks when you say engaging what do you mean? I have told him what I expect him to do, to call the bar and ask for a referral to a divorce lawyer, and to call me when he's done that. I haven't said anything to him since. I assume you mean saying anything other then what I've already said to him. Is this correct?

[daughterandmom]

Hi Unicorn

I have already taught my daughter what to look for in a guy so she will not end up divorced like me.

Is your currently married pwBPD who you have mentioned deceived you what you want to teach her to look for in a guy?

And I didn't mean that you aren't providing a stable peaceful environment for her at home, I apologize if it sounded that way. But many of your posts highlight erratic, drama filled behavior from your pwBPD. If and when he does get divorced and marry you, will the home environment be peaceful for her once he lives with you?

[adventurer]

I think perhaps his executive control is just fine.

I wonder if he doesn't actually want to or plan to go though a divorce so his actions make perfect sense.  He is manipulating you and blaming you to distract from his dishonesty and never-ending delays.

[unicorn2014]

Daughter and mom he will not be moving in with my d and I.  

Right now I'm trying to focus on him calling the bar and asking for a referral to a divorce lawyer.

I'm also trying to learn more about brinksmanship .

My daughter knows that I have set a boundary with my pwBPD. I think it's good that I have now taught her to do this as she will need this skill herself. My mother did not teach this to me. I am also potentially the daughter of a BPD mother. I am currently reading understanding the borderline mother and posting about it on the coping board. You're welcome to join me over there to discuss that.

Adventurer I will take you what are you saying into consideration. This is like going back to square one for me. I thought I knew everything there was to know about BPD but apparently I didn't.

I'm really not sure what to do here.

Thank you for your input.

[babyducks]

Baby ducks when you say engaging what do you mean? I have told him what I expect him to do, to call the bar and ask for a referral to a divorce lawyer, and to call me when he's done that. I haven't said anything to him since. I assume you mean saying anything other then what I've already said to him. Is this correct?

correct.    I would suggest you consider walking away from the conversations now.   you have delivered your thoughts.     

[unicorn2014]

Ok thank you baby ducks. He just texted me this, the first paragraph is a copy and paste of mine and the second is his, I deleted the county name for anonymity.

I've asked you to call the ... .bar association and ask for a referral to a divorce lawyer. Please let me know when you've done this.

I look fwd to you finding a lawyer who's practice you find acceptable so I can make an appointment

I have not replied.

I am aware that he is trying to manipulate me.

[Grey Kitty]

Gack!

You don't want to be involved with his divorce or any of his lawyers in any way.

I'd suggest you tell him this.

It isn't your job to get him divorced. In fact, if you get involved you are stepping a toe across the line to working achively to end a mans marriage. Something that I doubt is consistent with your values.

[patientandclear]

I have told him what I expect him to do, to call the bar and ask for a referral to a divorce lawyer, and to call me when he's done that.

Unicorn, hi.  I posted about this on your other thread and also PM'd you.  THIS IS NOT THE BOUNDARY YOU SET A FEW WEEKS BACK.  He told you shortly after you set that boundary that he HAD spoken to a lawyer, said she should expect a call from you, etc., or that he would tell her she should expect a call from you to confirm that he was setting a divorce in motion.  He resented it, he felt humiliated, etc., but he was going to give you the name of that lawyer.

The idea that it is Dec 29 and he does not even have the name of a family law attorney is his attempt to redefine the boundary.  If you let him, I'd guess you'll have a very hard time getting him to believe you mean what you say in the future.  If you told him today that all you expect by the end of the year is that he call the bar association and get the name of a lawyer,  you have bargained down your own boundary to near nothing-ness.

As I noted on the other thread, it seems to me the time has come to remind him that the expectation you had for staying in the relationship was that he have taken concrete steps toward divorce -- that you would have been able to independently confirm at this point.  I recall you discussing that with him and with us -- that he only had a few weeks but with effort that should be do-able.  Well, he squandered those few weeks and apparently did nothing. If you don't enforce the boundary you set, you're going to have a credibility problem going forward, and no clear lines or markers anymore for what you are expecting.

He is calling your bluff.  :)id you mean it?  Then don't erode or shift it backwards.

 

[unicorn2014]

Patient and clear, I responded on my other thread and privately as well.

He has met with a couple of lawyers over the past couple of months but they have not been divorce attorneys.

The attorney he met with twice last week and was going to meet with a third time yesterday was a bankruptcy attorney.

When I pointed this out to him he canceled the appointment and told me to pick a lawyer for him. I refused to do that and told him he needed to call the bar and ask for a referral to a family lawyer.

I think he is scared.

I don't know if you know the back story or not but a year or two ago but he said his wife threatened to sue him for all he had so he withdrew his divorce to file for a bankruptcy. After a year or two of this I told him I could not continue on like this and that I needed him to refile his divorce. So yesterday when I pointed out to him that the attorney he had been seeing was a bankruptcy attorney he dropped that person like a hot potato, insisting that he was not filing for bankruptcy. When I had asked him what kind of law she practiced he said he didn't know, so I looked her up myself.

I don't know how his brain works, that's why I started this thread. When I was talking to my dad on the phone yesterday I was telling him I did not know why my partner acted the way he did, which was the truth.

I don't have a problem helping him pick a divorce lawyer if he provides me with names to look at.

As I said before I think his is a high stakes divorce and I can understand if he feels a bit anxious. I certainly would not have made the same choices he made if I were in his situation. As I've said many times I got out of my own marriage before something like this could happen to me.

[patientandclear]

My concern is that you are moving your boundary when he flagrantly did not meet the one you set earlier.

I'm also thinking about how you toughed it out with your other irritations and annoyances in the last week because you wanted to see if he would address their root cause -- the non-progress toward divorce.  Well, he didn't -- which leaves you right back in the thicket of all those other cruddy feelings you were going to get back to after you saw what he did about this divorce issue.  What's the stopping point for that?

No doubt he is scared or avoidant about this divorce for some reason.  He is finding new ways to avoid the thing, by all this skirmishing about the selection of a lawyer.  If he can keep that going, he surely will.  But you will then be stuck indefinitely in the situation that led you to post the various side threads about things he was doing to assert an ongoing relationship that were bothering you.  What will be the terms of going forward, if you are not clear about the boundary and it is not clearly ascertained whether he met it?

[unicorn2014]

Patient and clear I am actually at peace tonight.

If he actually does call the bar in the morning and give me three names of family law attorneys he wants me to look at then he will have met my requirement. I had asked him to call the bar before, but he refused, saying he didn't operate that way.

He and I did not facetime tonight, and had very limited contact on the phone.

The two threads were about two different behaviors, dealing with how I feel when I find out he hasn't been eating, and then yesterday's thread where he told me I had to call the bar for him. He reminded me of my D15 when he did that. I do have compassion for him when he's acting emotionally immature. I have a lot more sympathy for that then I do for his irrational behavior around not eating when he doesn't feel safe. That I have no patience for. That to me is a symptom of a mental illness that needs to be treated, but that's my other thread. 

[Lifewriter16]

Hi unicorn,

This doesn't look like poor executive control to me either. I'm with adventurer who says:

I think perhaps his executive control is just fine.

I wonder if he doesn't actually want to or plan to go though a divorce so his actions make perfect sense.  He is manipulating you and blaming you to distract from his dishonesty and never-ending delays.

In an earlier post, you said:

I don't know if you know the back story or not but a year or two ago but he said his wife threatened to sue him for all he had so he withdrew his divorce to file for a bankruptcy. After a year or two of this I told him I could not continue on like this and that I needed him to refile his divorce.

It seems to me that his wife sueing him for 'all he had' and him filing for a bankruptcy are mutually exclusive and there is something wrong in the story he is telling you. If this is a high stakes divorce, he'd have too much for bankruptcy.

My apologies, because I suspect this could hurt, but have you considered the possibility that he is still in a primary relationship with his wife and you are the back-up supply? It's not a nice thought, but it's a possibility.

What would happen if you just drop the divorce issue and watch? My BPDxbf was still married when we got together and so was I. I instituted my divorce which came through in 9 months. At that point, he hadn't progressed his divorce at all. We nearly got into the kind of stand-off that you seem to have got into with your pwBPD. I cared greatly that he was still married. I pushed him to see solicitors and he'd make appointments and then cancel them an hour beforehand, saying he was too ill to go or he'd lose his daughter if he asked his wife for a divorce. Eventually, I suggested we shouldn't see each other until he filed for his divorce. He dysregulated saying I was controlling him by saying he had to get divorced to see me.

At that point, I choose to step back and see what happened. I dropped the issue having decided upon my boundary (for myself and without telling him) that there was no way I would ever move in with him until he was divorced. It brought me peace because I knew I'd never have to fight with him under my own roof to have him be 'mine' and not 'hers'. My BPDbf never took any further action to file for divorce. He's still married but separated.

If you step back and watch as I did, you may just find that he conjures up other things to argue about instead. Mine did. It's the arguments that keep the relationship from becoming too close, if you ask me. The arguments prevent engulfment. Those arguments eventually led to the demise of my relationship. I realise that your relationship is long distance so you may feel pressure to settle the issue, but it is in his power to move to be close to you if he wants to. Marriage doesn't have to be the first step. Indeed, I think time spent with each other prior to marriage is time well invested. The longing involved in long distance relationships produces a false indication of love which suggests sustainability that isn't really there.


Love Lifewriter

[formflier]

  Unicorn, I did a quick scan of your posts to get caught up.    Bars (boundaries) have been set and moved a lot.  Very confusing.  Boundaries only work with consistency.    What is being posted about now bears little resemblance to the end of the year boundary set a few weeks ago.  That being said, I think taking a bigger picture look at things shows a continued negative trend in your relationship.  The redefining of the end of the year boundary is just a symptom of the negative (toxic) stuff that continues to build in your relationship.  I'm concerned about the shifting issues and strategies to deal with them.  Stepping away (getting space) will help.  I'm rooting for you to take action for you and to consistently do so.    

FF  

[unicorn2014]

Life writer I hear you and no he's not in a relationship with his wife. I will make him put some effort into choosing a divorce lawyer and not just give me three names to choose from.

[unicorn2014]

FF I do not have the energy to play Russian roulette with this man. I also don't want to be held responsible for his behavior.

[unicorn2014]

Life write I asked him not to move out here until he got divorced.

I don't feel any longing.

I feel major frustration.

[formflier]

  I will make him put some effort into choosing a divorce lawyer and not just give me three names to choose from.  

   This is an example of the Toxic behavior and the thinking that drives it coming from your side of the relationship.    Your desire for him to be divorced and to be able to focus on you is natural desire.  Fine thing for you to want.    As you work through trying to set your boundaries, it is critical that you set them on yourself as well.    He gets to own his actions and should not be "pushing" you to do things.  Same for you.  The only person you can make do things is you.    

FF

[unicorn2014]

That's fine.

He  sent me a list of three divorce lawyers at 7:30am his time and told me to pick one.

He hasn't responded since.

I'm not interested in picking one.

That's his job.

He was talking to me like I was a business associate.

I am not happy.

So how do I hold my boundary in a BIFF way?

[babyducks]

Unicorn - you know this stuff.    BIFF,  You are the person who needs to make this decision.   I will be interested to hear who you picked.

[formflier]

 Unicorn, We are all rooting for you.  We are also rooting for your relationship to work out.  I saw lots of encouragement and good advice as I scanned your threads when I was catching up.  It's been a while since I've talked about good, better, best.  BI  

FF is a better response, and if you are focused on just this one interaction it is likely the best response.  My encouragement to you is to try to "back up" and not focus on each interaction but to look at the relationship as a whole.  When I look at that I see pain and hurt everywhere.  I see two people still dishing this out to each other.    Space is what is needed to help  both sides heal from this.   I'm convinced that is the "best" response to the numerous issues that you have brought to the boards.  Can you help us understand the avoidance of taking space to heal?     

FF

[unicorn2014]

Yes form flier I understand.

Him throwing me a list of lawyers and not responding to me since is not taking space, that's the silent treatment and that's a deal breaker. My dad does this that, my child's dad does that, I will not tolerate that.

Since my SO is ignoring me I think I'm going to turn off location sharing and take him off my calendars.

I have had enough.

He's taking his space, apparently, although he said he's working on a project. He said he would be available to "take and receive calls" until 7pm my time.

The way he is talking to me today is really irritating me.

I feel like he is winning right now and he is the one who is married, not me.

He is the one with the untreated personality disorder, not me.

I just don't understand.

[thisagain]

Didn't you agree last night that he should send you two names (and then it became three) and you'd pick one? I don't remember which thread it was in and can't find it now, but I seem to remember you writing to us that you were fine with helping him pick one because at least that would mean he put in the effort of calling the bar like you asked. Did you communicate that to him as well?

Yesterday your boundary was no talking until he calls the bar and gets a referral for a divorce lawyer. You did a good job of enforcing that by refusing to Facetime with him last night. This morning he called the bar and got referrals for divorce lawyers. That's a success! 

But now I'm worrying that it's devolved into more squabbling. It might be the right thing for you to pick a certain amount of progress toward the divorce and hold the boundary of no contact until he reaches that point. But you can't keep moving the target farther and telling him you still don't want to talk to him until he does this other thing. It would be terribly frustrating for him to first hear "don't talk to me until you call the bar and get the name of a lawyer," he wakes up early and does exactly that, you agree to help him pick one and then change your mind, and now it's "don't talk to me until you've picked a lawyer" (or signed a retainer? I don't remember). Do you see how that could be frustrating to him?

I also think you should focus more on removing your contribution to the high level of conflict, specifically the pecking away at little things. Turning off the location sharing and calendar would probably be helpful if it were connected with stating a clear, firm boundary. But in the current atmosphere of inconsistency and frustration on both sides, it seems more like another little thing that increases the level of conflict and drama. And I personally believe the location and calendar sharing is way inappropriate and should never have happened in the first place. Just not sure now is the right time to turn it off.

It seems like you have a lot to figure out, about what you're willing to radically accept and what you aren't, where do you want to set the bar for his divorce progress, and what are you willing to do if he doesn't meet that standard. And especially, how can you lower the temperature in the relationship, do your part to resolve problems in a low-drama way, and not feed extra conflict. Even if he retains an attorney tomorrow, this divorce could take years.

Do you think you could take some time--maybe a few days or a week--to think about all of this? No talk with him about divorce or the nature or status of your relationship, no little jabs like turning off location etc, just time for you to think and process.