Is this poor executive control?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

This again, it was his choice to send me three, not mine. He sent me a business text this morning with three names, no I love you, wishing me a good day in the city with my family (didn't make it), and hasn't talked to me since. I'm really mad at him. I feel like he's giving me the silent treatment now. He hasn't responded to my texts or my calls, and its been over 6 hours.

He just threw three names at me and asked me to pick one.

I am not ok with that.

I'm supposed to pick his lawyer while he's working on his project?

I don't think so.

I need him to show me that this divorce is a priority to him.

He's not treating it like a priority at all.

I know that is what people have been telling me.

I'm really mad that he's giving me the silent treatment right now.

That is a deal breaker for me.

I feel like the one with the personality disorder right now because I'm all upset and he's just doing his own thing. That's not right. I can't talk with him if he's ignoring me.

[unicorn2014]

This again, it was his choice to send me three, not mine. He sent me a business text this morning with three names, no I love you, wishing me a good day in the city with my family (didn't make it), and hasn't talked to me since. I'm really mad at him. I feel like he's giving me the silent treatment now. He hasn't responded to my texts or my calls, and its been over 6 hours.

He just threw three names at me and asked me to pick one.

I am not ok with that.

I'm supposed to pick his lawyer while he's working on his project?

I don't think so.

I need him to show me that this divorce is a priority to him.

He's not treating it like a priority at all.

I know that is what people have been telling me.

I'm really mad that he's giving me the silent treatment right now.

That is a deal breaker for me.

I feel like the one with the personality disorder right now because I'm all upset and he's just doing his own thing. That's not right. I can't talk with him if he's ignoring me.

[thisagain]

What does "a deal breaker for me" mean?

What could he do to show you that the divorce is a priority to him?

Do you have a concrete benchmark for showing that the divorce is a priority, or does it depend on how his communications make you feel? Yesterday you asked him to call the bar and get lawyers' names, and he did exactly that. I'm wondering if you would have been more satisfied if he'd said I love you or wished you a good day. I'm also confused that calling you Sugar Boo is allowed, sweetie is not, and I love you is required.

Did you say anything to him last night about his plan to send you two lawyers' names and have you pick? I found the old post:

He said he will have two lawyers for me to look at tomorrow and he wants me to help make a choice. I don't mind doing that because that means he took the initiative to call the bar and choose two lawyers. I will then tell him I expect him to put this person on retainer.

I know the silent treatment hurts, but here it could be a blessing in disguise. What do you think about refraining from all relationship-and-divorce talk for him for a few days or so, while you process and plan?

[adventurer]

I think user thisagain has a good suggestion, some sort of break where you can cool down and think about all this stuff carefully and free from the usual daily strife.  I know the boundaries have been moved a bit but you wrote earlier... .

If he actually does call the bar in the morning and give me three names of family law attorneys he wants me to look at then he will have met my requirement. I had asked him to call the bar before, but he refused, saying he didn't operate that way.

and now you write

He just threw three names at me and asked me to pick one.

I am not ok with that.

so I'm not sure if the waters are just getting too muddied and a break would help, or if I'm missing something here.

Perhaps tell him you approve of them all, so he can pick the one that works best for him?  Then decide what you want the next steps to entail.

[unicorn2014]

This again, I don't allow or not allow him to call me sugar boo or sweetie, that's his choice, but today he called me nothing, didn't say I love you, just wished me a good day in the city with my family, which I didn't even make. Now he's ignoring me. He's definitely triggered my adult child feeling of abandonment.

I picked a lawyer for him and he still hasn't responded. He's been ignoring me since he sent his text at  7:30am this morning (I've been trying to reach him since 11:30am), after he told me he'd be available from 9am to 10pm.

I don't know what his problem is.

To use his language, I feel like I'm being jerked around.

Yes, I expect him to tell him he loves me, not call me sweetie, not call me sugar boo, but if he doesn't love me, none of this is worth it. If I want a business associate, I'll go to the employment center.

I'm feeling hurt, angry, lonely, confused.

I'm trying to work my ACA 7th step around this because my father also ignored me this morning which I suppose I should post about on the coping board, even though he has narcissistic traits and not borderline traits.

I'm in a world of pain this afternoon.

I wasn't prepared for this. He's caught me off guard and I feel like a mess.

Adventurer, he is totally ignoring me now. Here I'll post his text without the lawyer names.

-

Good morning,

Here is whom the [bar association] referred me too on the phone, please select the one you think is best and I will make an appt. straight away.  If none of these are to your liking I will get more referrals.



I will be available to receive and return calls today from 9am - 10pm est



Have great time in the city with your family today.



[lawyer 1][lawyer 2][lawyer 3]

I have heard nothing from him since getting this text, he hasn't answered his phone. I feel like an idiot.

[formflier]

   I don't know what his problem is.  

   Unicorn, You know the answer to this.  You are posting on a board to discuss his problem.  It's BPD.    Do you see the pattern where you are both inflicting pain on each other?  Critical you consider and directly answer this question.    

FF

[unicorn2014]

Formflier, he's ignoring me today, and I need his help. My dad's ignoring me, the owner of the gym my daughter's going to is being mean to me. I really need his help right now and he's not there for me. He's the one who's hurting me right now. You read his text. He said he would be available to receive calls between 9am and 10pm and I've been trying to reach him since 11:30am. Its now 3pm.

Yes, I know his problem is BPD, and he totally denies he has a problem, he thinks he's fine.

Yes I turned off location sharing.

I hid his calendars on my calendar.

I don't know what else to do.

I don't think I have what it takes to be in a relationship with a person with BPD. I'm not that strong.

I just broke down in tears in front of my daughter because of all the problems I'm having today.

I'm trying really hard to keep it together myself.

My partner gets offended when I call the parental talk line for help or my dad and my brother for help and says I don't need his help.

He's all but abandoned me today because he thinks I went to the city with my daughter to meet my dad but that didn't work out. He doesn't know that. He doesn't know my dad is ignoring me.

I'm just shaking my head.

I'm trying to paint and I might go to my  gym later, in case you or any one asks what am I doing today to take care of myself. I'm also planning on going to a meeting tonight. I ate a nutritious breakfast. I'm trying to encourage my daughter to go to the gym but she's just lying in bed. She alternates between wanting to be left alone to wanting to go out and I'm trying to be supportive to her while maintaining boundaries.

Remember a couple of months ago when she got in trouble with the  sheriff for smoking marijuana? Well, her gym is in that city, so I'm having to set really firm boundaries with her. I can't post about her on the parenting board because she refuses to see a counselor, and has for 3 years. I don't know if her problems are normal teenage problems or if there is something else going on. I have gone to meetings for parents of kids with drug problems, so yeah there's something going on with her too.

As you can see I'm having a heap of problems today.

I'm not good at the BIFF response.

Baby ducks says I know what to do but I don't.

I'm an adult child.

I think I need to post on the coping board about what happened with my dad today.

So, I don't have a partner right now.

[formflier]

Do you see the dynamic in your relationship where you are both inflicting pain on each other?  

[unicorn2014]

Formflier, he is ignoring me after telling me he would be available. I am not hurting him. He is hurting me. He assumed I was with my daughter and my father in the city.

Tell me, how am I hurting him?

I am willing to listen.

[formflier]

My opinions of your hurtful behaviours does not matter.  The critical thing is for you to take time to consider your behavior from his perspective and how that behavior could be hurtful.  What have you done or said in the last 24 hours that he could be hurt by?  Same question but for a longer timeframe.    

FF

[unicorn2014]

Sure form flier, he thinks I "blew him off yesterday" and therefore that justified him ignoring me for 5 hours while I was dealing with a crisis with my dad and my daughter.

So since he thinks I hurt him he can hurt me in return.

However you and I both know I did not "blow him off" yesterday.

Yesterday I was trying to uphold my boundary.

Is it any wonder why it is so hard to uphold my boundaries?

I uphold my boundary for one day and I get accused of blowing him off.

Then the next day I'm greeted with silence from 7:30am to 4:30pm.

I don't know if I have what it takes to be in a relationship like this.

[formflier]

  So since he thinks I hurt him he can hurt me in return.    

   Do you believe that since he has hurt you you can hurt him in return?    

FF

[unicorn2014]

So since he thinks I hurt him he can hurt me in return.

Do you believe that since he has hurt you you can hurt him in return?

FF

Of course not, but I didn't hurt him today or yesterday. He thinks that I broke up with him yesterday. Grey Kitty said I didn't have tell him I didn't break up with him. He thinks his thoughts and feelings are in order today because he thinks he was responding to what I was saying to him yesterday.

I don't know how to deal with that.

I don't know how to deal with a disordered person who thinks they're ordered.

I don't know how to deal with a disordered person who projects their disorder on me.

I'm not that strong, I don't have that good boundaries.

I lost control today, I got furious with him for ignoring me for 5 hours and he justified it saying that he didn't think I wanted to talk to him after what I said to him yesterday.

I don't have the energy for this kind of relationship.

[formflier]

  So since he thinks I hurt him he can hurt me in return.    

   Do you believe that since he has hurt you you can hurt him in return?    

FF

  Of course not, but I didn't hurt him today or yesterday.   

   I understand you may not be intentionally plotting and thinking of ways to hurt him.  Rest assured you are doing lots of things that are hurtful to him and the future of your r/s.  Rest assured that we understand that he is doing lots of things that are hurtful to you (no need to explain any more, we get this)  Are you interested in focusing on your behavior and choices you can make to improve your r/s and stop sending hurt his way?  I understand you don't believe you are sending hurt his way or as much hurt as many on these boards think you are sending.    

FF  

[unicorn2014]

So since he thinks I hurt him he can hurt me in return.

Do you believe that since he has hurt you you can hurt him in return?

FF

Of course not, but I didn't hurt him today or yesterday. 

I understand you may not be intentionally plotting and thinking of ways to hurt him.  Rest assured you are doing lots of things that are hurtful to him and the future of your r/s.  Rest assured that we understand that he is doing lots of things that are hurtful to you (no need to explain any more... .we get this)

Are you interested in focusing on your behavior and choices you can make to improve your r/s and stop sending hurt his way?  I understand you don't believe you are sending hurt his way or as much hurt as many on these boards think you are sending.

Yes I am interested in focusing on my behavior and choices I can make to improve my relationship because it is untenable to me right now. He is convinced that he acted correctly to me today based on what I said to him yesterday. He is basing his behavior towards me on my behavior towards him. Problem is he is misinterpreting my behavior but he is convinced he is not. So tell me how do I work with that?

I allowed him to get into an argument with me about his behavior without dealing with the matter at hand:

He sent me three names of lawyers.

He didn't check his text messages before the end of the business day.

You saw his text, he said he would call the one I picked.

So you tell me, what do I do here?

I'm at a loss.

[patientandclear]

So since he thinks I hurt him he can hurt me in return.

Do you believe that since he has hurt you you can hurt him in return?

FF

Of course not, but I didn't hurt him today or yesterday. He thinks that I broke up with him yesterday. Grey Kitty said I didn't have tell him I didn't break up with him. He thinks his thoughts and feelings are in order today because he thinks he was responding to what I was saying to him yesterday.

I don't know how to deal with that.

I don't know how to deal with a disordered person who thinks they're ordered.

I don't know how to deal with a disordered person who projects their disorder on me.

I'm not that strong, I don't have that good boundaries.

I lost control today, I got furious with him for ignoring me for 5 hours and he justified it saying that he didn't think I wanted to talk to him after what I said to him yesterday.

I don't have the energy for this kind of relationship.

Unicorn, for what it's worth, I thought his text this am was respectful and honored your previously-stated boundaries. It sounded like he was taking seriously what you've asked for (I would not put too much weight on that and again, I think your own boundaries have shifted so he is meeting a lower threshold than you specified a few weeks back.) But. To me, that text was unobjectionable.

It almost feels to me like ANYTHING he does is going to hurt/upset you at this point, because he's globally been so deceptive and slippery and that hurts you a great deal. So, as has been discussed in your other recent threads, your resentment of that seeps out even when in the instant, he's not really doing anything offensive, or is even being (without a small frame, not factoring in the deception), kind, warm and appropriate.

If that's correct, it's not that your feelings are wrong! It's that they need a place to go and be processed and become clear without thrashing your partner daily as you decide what it all means.

You know I think he is NOT meeting your boundary as previously announced. I am NOT advocating for just proceeding as if all is well. But I suspect the core problem is that he has not met and still is not meeting your boundary--but you (understandably!) don't want to take the step that that would indicate.

[formflier]

  Yes I am interested in focusing on my behavior and choices I can make to improve my relationship because it is untenable to me right now.   So you tell me, what do I do here?  I'm at a loss.  

   What is the most consistent advice you have been given about what you can do to reduce toxicity and give your r/s a chance?  As I scanned your threads while catching up, the advice has been consistent for a while now.  Please don't think about advice about todays issue, or yesterdays misunderstanding, or the hang up that happened a day or two before that.  The advice is broad advice about something you totally control.    

FF

[unicorn2014]

Patient and clear wrote

Unicorn, for what it's worth, I thought his text this am was respectful and honored your previously-stated boundaries. It sounded like he was taking seriously what you've asked for (I would not put too much weight on that and again, I think your own boundaries have shifted so he is meeting a lower threshold than you specified a few weeks back.) But. To me, that text was unobjectionable.

Right, but then he didn't check his text messages until after the end of the business day so his message was null, it meant nothing. I told him he call the lawyer first thing in the morning and get back to me.

If that's correct, it's not that your feelings are wrong! It's that they need a place to go and be processed and become clear without thrashing your partner daily as you decide what it all means.

You know I think he is NOT meeting your boundary as previously announced. I am NOT advocating for just proceeding as if all is well. But I suspect the core problem is that he has not met and still is not meeting your boundary--but you (understandably!) don't want to take the step that that would indicate.

Yes I told him he has one more day to get this straight and I told him to call the lawyer in the morning and then call me. So he did that strategy of raising the bar and said he would call me after he met with the lawyer. Now, tomorrow is new year's eve, how likely is it that he's going to be able to meet with the lawyer tomorrow?

I asked him to do a simple thing, call the lawyer in the morning, and then call me. He refuses to do that. He wants to have things his way.

So, I need to get used to the fact that I don't have a partner right now.

I think form flier said to not depend on people with disorders.

Form flier my partner said he would call me after he meets with a lawyer. I asked him to call me after he called the lawyer. I will lose this battle to win the war. He can have his way. I will take a step backward.

[thisagain]

Unicorn, for what it's worth, I thought his text this am was respectful and honored your previously-stated boundaries. It sounded like he was taking seriously what you've asked for (I would not put too much weight on that and again, I think your own boundaries have shifted so he is meeting a lower threshold than you specified a few weeks back.) But. To me, that text was unobjectionable.

It almost feels to me like ANYTHING he does is going to hurt/upset you at this point, because he's globally been so deceptive and slippery and that hurts you a great deal. So, as has been discussed in your other recent threads, your resentment of that seeps out even when in the instant, he's not really doing anything offensive, or is even being (without a small frame, not factoring in the deception), kind, warm and appropriate.

If that's correct, it's not that your feelings are wrong! It's that they need a place to go and be processed and become clear without thrashing your partner daily as you decide what it all means.

I agree with this and am quoting it all in hopes you'll read it all again His text this morning was respectful, exactly what you asked for last night (send you names of lawyers for you to pick one), and probably consistent with the BIFF tone that you'd been using with him yesterday.

He did exactly what you wanted. In the big picture, him identifying options for divorce lawyers is a pretty great step. He didn't dysregulate over your boundary last night, he did exactly what you asked, and he informed you of it in a respectful manner. And then you were upset that he didn't say I love you, or didn't check his phone for a few hours. Do you see what we mean about how your overall resentment is making you overly reactive to little things?

And it's hard to tell from only his side of the conversation, but I didn't even think his messages last night were that bad. Sure, he shouldn't have accused you of holding the relationship hostage or breaking up with him, and he should have realized it's his own job to pick his own divorce lawyer. But like I said yesterday, it's not too surprising when you consider the history of high conflict, squabbling and poor boundaries.

A few times yesterday and today I've pointed something out to you and asked if you understand why he could be feeling frustrated. I don't recall you responding to any of those. I know you don't feel like understanding his feelings right now, and I get it. We've all been there. But the kind, low-conflict thing to do when you're unable to understand and validate his feelings is to take a break, get some space, take some time for yourself. You can't be in an active, talking-every-day relationship with someone who you don't want to validate or empathize with.

[formflier]

  Form flier my partner said he would call me after he meets with a lawyer. I asked him to call me after he called the lawyer. I will lose this battle to win the war. He can have his way. I will take a step backward.  

   If you don't win any battles you will loose the war.  If you don't change the dynamic in your r/s, the r/s will die of the weight of hurt that has built up.  He has once again backed you down from your boundary.  This is your choice.    When you are ready to make different choices and hold to those choices, your r/s may survive.  I understand you are hurting,  , I'm very concerned for you that you are repeating bad choices.    

FF

[unicorn2014]

This again wrote

He did exactly what you wanted. In the big picture, him identifying options for divorce lawyers is a pretty great step. He didn't dysregulate over your boundary last night, he did exactly what you asked, and he informed you of it in a respectful manner. And then you were upset that he didn't say I love you, or didn't check his phone for a few hours. Do you see what we mean about how your overall resentment is making you overly reactive to little things?

Did you read his text to me today?

Form flier he is bullying me.

I am trying to stand my ground.

What do you suggest I do?

[formflier]

  What do you suggest I do?

   Again, back to the question of the most consistent advice you have been given over the past month or so.  What is that advice.    

FF

[thisagain]

I asked him to do a simple thing, call the lawyer in the morning, and then call me. He refuses to do that. He wants to have things his way.

So, I need to get used to the fact that I don't have a partner right now.

I think form flier said to not depend on people with disorders.

When did you ask him to call the lawyer in the morning? My recollection of what you two ended up agreeing on last night, was that he would call the bar in the morning, get names of lawyers, send you the names and you'll pick one. As far as I can tell, he did exactly what you asked. I did read the text today and agree with Patientandclear that it seemed respectful and not objectionable.

If you're upset with yourself for lowering the bar so much, when you had previously wanted him to file by the end of the year and now he hasn't even retained a lawyer, that's another issue. I know it's really hurtful that you're in this situation, and it's really frustrating that you can't just ask him to get a divorce and trust him to follow through. But you did express to him that you'd be fine with him calling the bar this morning and sending you two names of lawyers. And it sounds like he did that.

I can't tell whether you picked a lawyer but it seems like one of you did, and now you're telling him not to call until after he calls the lawyer. That sounds an awful lot like the "brinksmanship" you wanted to avoid. You can't be threatening or going NC to enforce him taking every single little step of the divorce process. There could be a lot of steps to the divorce. It could take years. That's why I really think you need to focus on the long-term, big-picture ways that you can reduce the strain on you.

Do you see how the moving targets could be confusing and frustrating to him? Do you see how you going NC, and being unclear or inconsistent with what he needs to do before you'll talk to him again, could be triggering HIS abandonment fears?

[unicorn2014]

What do you suggest I do?

Again, back to the question of the most consistent advice you have been given over the past month or so.

What is that advice.

FF

Take some space.

I asked him to give me the consideration of letting me know when his appointment is so I can know when to hear from him.

He refused.

I asked him to look up the hours on the internet to see if they are open tomorrow.

He refused.

That's fine.

I get it.

He wants to have things his way.

Ok.

I will lose the battle to win the war.

I will let him take his space how he wants to take it although if I did that to him he would be nasty as heck.

thisagain, I will repost his morning text.

-

Good morning,

Here is whom the [bar association] referred me too on the phone, please select the one you think is best and I will make an appt. straight away.  If none of these are to your liking I will get more referrals.



I will be available to receive and return calls today from 9am - 10pm est



Have great time in the city with your family today.



[lawyer 1][lawyer 2][lawyer 3]

I tried to text, call, message him for 5 hours with the name of the lawyer I picked and he ignored me.

He's not fighting fair.

I tried to text, call, message him between 11:30am and 4:30pm PST and he was not available.

Do you see where he said he would be available between 9am-10pm EST?

He lied to me.

And he justified it by saying I broke up with him yesterday.

I'm supposed to work with that?

He thinks he's perfectly sane.

He contacted me at 4:30pm PST, well after the close of the business day EST.

----------------

[formflier]

  Take some space.    

     You've got it.  The longer you delay making this choice, the more hurt will be piled up on the r/s  At some point there won't be a r/s to save.  You won't see that point coming.  How do you think it best to take the space you need?     

FF

[Daniell85]

The space thing is a really good idea.

I hear you saying that he is asking you to pick an attorney.  Your frustration and hurt are evident. Possibly hoping he will just man up to the job, tell you HE picked a lawyer, when his appointment is, and to keep you reassured and apprised. You do deserve that.

As FF pointed out, sadly your partner has BPD, so while he is doing technically what you are asking ( and at the last minute!   ) his spirit towards you is very bad. That's hard to bear on top of the inherent feelings of devaluation you may be feeling from how he is handling things. So hurtful 

My best advice to you, for your well being, is to pick an attorney, let him know who it is, and step waaay back from this guy.

I know that is hard, because you are really feeling the need for his comfort and support. You were strong for many years without his support. I hope you are able to reach inside of you for that right now. It may be possible part of his apparent belief that he is the ONE in control of everything is because he thinks you need him more than you need your own self. A step back and some detachment on your part... .and suddenly the power balance shifts back to you in control of you and you handling your things, which means he only has the leverage of his own wonderful self to convince you of anything at all about him.

[EaglesJuju]

This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .