Not knowing the right answer

[HurtinNW]

My boyfriend presents with so many issues, all the time, I am often confused.

Today we had the brunch we had talked about. It was going to be fun... .and then boyfriend "ran late." He has a pattern of flaking and testing. I know it isn't just me. I've seen him flake on major deadlines and miss job opportunities. His chronic tardiness has been a big issue in our relationship. When I have gotten upset he accuses me of being unreasonable and unfair. He is SUPER hung up on fairness.

So today he shows up late and wasn't able to help me get ready for the guests. I wasn't sure what my boundary was or the action to take, so I told him I had expected him and was disappointed. He spiked to immediate anger. I often suspect he is testing me with this stuff. He wants me to get mad so he can feel like a victim.

I stayed calm and validated he was angry without backing down that I was hurt. We had the brunch and it was alright... .not the best. Our friends came, it was lovely, but I felt distant from him. My kids didn't want to be there. This leads me to my real, serious question.

I have tried to partner with this man for four years. I love him. Very much. But it has been four years of chaos. I have three lovely, amazing kids. My kids originally welcomed my boyfriend into our lives. They were so happy to see me happy. They really tried to bond with him. But his pattern has been to break up with me... .repeatedly. He has left more times than I can count. He completely disappears from our lives for weeks and months on end. This past year he has been gone more than he was around. He has missed all of their birthdays, mother's day, vacations, etc. My kids have completely lost trust in him.

At this point my kids have had it. They really do not want him in our lives. In fact today at the brunch they didn't want to come out because he was there. He wants to rebuild the relationship and so do I, but the chickens have come home to roost.

I cannot blame my kids. I totally respect their feelings. Unlike me they are not codependent. They cannot understand why I am once again seeing him. My older daughter came to me tonight after he was gone and asked to talked. She said how hard it was and she thinks it is bad for her little brother... .how he deserves someone who stays and isn't rude, as she put it.

Have any of you dealt with this situation? It's like he has dug a deep hole and keeps digging. He is only marginally aware of how deep this hole has gotten. In his mind, I think every cycle is a fresh start. Kids don't think that way... .and they shouldn't think that way.

I am torn so much in this relationship. I am torn between what I want and how much I love this person and I am torn thinking this unhealthy for my kids.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[waverider]

This endless recycling chaos is hard to deal with. The problem is he doesn't have the faculties to organize and structure his life, constantly living on impulse. Obligation and responsibility hardly get a look in.

He probably knows this and hates this, but not being able to do anything about it means he has to hide behind denial and delusions, blocking responsibility if you like. What alternative does he have?

The more you try to get him to "man up" the more he feels victimized on top of his inability.

To get back on track you will probably both need to accept his limited capabilities to organize himself. He will not be able to do this while he feels that by doing so is viewed as failure. This is not easy.

No amount of boundaries or demands is going to enable him to do what he can't. ie you will need to work around this flakiness as part of his disability. The thing that makes it frustrating is that he probably makes big plans and ideas that have next to no chance of coming to fruition

[Lou12]

Hi Hurtin

I can't offer much advice but I know how you feel as I am in a similar situation.

My BPD was pretty unhappy with me over the Xmas period as he wants to be incorporated into my life. I like you have children and I told him firmly that until he can make some effort with consistency then I will not allow him to step into my world.

I have discussed with him the limitations of his BPD allowing him to be consistently there. I gave him a clear incentive that our priority was building trust with each other and gaining respect. I stay away from the love stuff and try and talk as friends even though it's way more. I hope by doing this approach it triggers him less. To be fair I have seen an improvement with consistency (well until a week ago and now we are not talking) but that's another story.

Suppose what I am trying to offer is... instead of him predicting the way the relationship flows, why don't you (with the knowledge of his BPD) take the bull by the horns and lead the way. Don't expect what he can't give, and go with a relationship that's based on you planning objectives that you know he can achieve.

Are your children old enough to understand what BPD is? It may help if they are aware of his disability to explain his erratic behaviours x

[HurtinNW]

This endless recycling chaos is hard to deal with. The problem is he doesn't have the faculties to organize and structure his life, constantly living on impulse. Obligation and responsibility hardly get a look in.

He probably knows this and hates this, but not being able to do anything about it means he has to hide behind denial and delusions, blocking responsibility if you like. What alternative does he have?

The more you try to get him to "man up" the more he feels victimized on top of his inability.

To get back on track you will probably both need to accept his limited capabilities to organize himself. He will not be able to do this while he feels that by doing so is viewed as failure. This is not easy.

No amount of boundaries or demands is going to enable him to do what he can't. ie you will need to work around this flakiness as part of his disability. The thing that makes it frustrating is that he probably makes big plans and ideas that have next to no chance of coming to fruition

waverider... .wow. Reading this I almost thought you knew him. This is so spot on. In fact he HATES the phrase "man up," even when applied to someone he doesn't know, like if he hears it on the radio.

I know he really struggles with feeling like a failure. And the irony is the more he pushes back against it with implusive anger, raging and scorn towards others, the more he becomes the failure he fears he is. Of course I don't think he is a failure. But is making a mess of his life, including his relationships.

This is a big question and challenge for me. Honestly. Can I accept this behavior? A therapist told me once that I have to ask myself, can I go through the recycling a hundred more times? At the time I didn't want to see it that way. Now I really have to pose that to myself, and for my kids.

And if I do accept it, how do I accept it in terms of how it can fit into my life in a healthy way... .

[HurtinNW]

instead of him predicting the way the relationship flows, why don't you (with the knowledge of his BPD) take the bull by the horns and lead the way. Don't expect what he can't give, and go with a relationship that's based on you planning objectives that you know he can achieve.

Are your children old enough to understand what BPD is? It may help if they are aware of his disability to explain his erratic behaviours x

Thank you Lou

That is really good advice. I know part of this is my resentment is not getting what I want. Can I create a relationship objective that fits his abilities and still meets my needs? It does feel like him "getting his way." Being honest here! I think that relationship would look like long term dating... .not having him move in or be around the kids until we do built the consistency you talk about.

One question I would have is how could he demonstrate consistency if he isn't be asked to show it? In other words if I avoid the recycling chaos by not asking him to actually have a relationship with me, then how will I know he has demonstrated improvement?

The sad thing is my kids are really aware and open to challenges. I adopted them from foster care and helped them overcome histories of trauma. I've dealt with MH issues including OCD, FASD and attachment struggles. I have a lot of skills in these areas and so do my kids. They are old enough to get it. They are tolerant of disabilities... .but have healthy expectations of themselves and others that when you have a disability you have to get help. They have a very strong belief in family as the place where you are loved and help each other. The fact that boyfriend blames others for his disability has led to lose faith in him and this relationship. 

[Lou12]

I totally get your dilemma. I suppose it's easier for me as I am happy to keep things at the dating stage until I feel safe enough to expose him to my life, which will only happen once he displays a consistency in staying around and respecting the things I ask of him. My expectations of him are a lot lower based on a lesser need I have for him to cause disruption in my life.

Their once was a time i needed him more but he couldn't deliver and I ended up very unhappy. I realise now that my simple answer is, if I want him in my life I have to accept what he is capable of giving. When a time comes where and if I become a mess again I have vowed to myself to let him go.

It sounds as though you are doing all you can for him and it's very evident how much you love him. You are right is asking yourself if he is meeting your needsp and you alone are the only one who knows the answer to this? And your kids are right, how do you actually help someone who doesn't believe they have a problem  x

[waverider]

And if I do accept it, how do I accept it in terms of how it can fit into my life in a healthy way... .

You need strong goals and boundaries for yourself. It will mean you will need to take on a lot of control without appearing to do so. Lots of "I" decions and less "You" requests.

Ultimately pwBPD rely on the strength and structure of others without openly handling over control. This is their personal pride. It takes a lot of diplomacy. It feels like enabling, and there is a danger of that, but you can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.

You need to be fully aware of your reality, and accept that theirs is somewhat different and nothing is to be achieved by attempting to sell them yours. They may absorb some of it but it will never fully fit with them, it is alien to them as theirs is to you.

Is this for you? Does it feel like compromise? Only you can answer this. A lot will depend on  whether there are any positives you can get from this RS that you are unlikely to otherwise have. ie Your little nugget of tangible benefit. It may seem mercenary, but at times the feel good of emotion is not always enough to get you though tough times, this is when tangible benefits will help to toughen it through.

[HurtinNW]

Is this for you? Does it feel like compromise? Only you can answer this. A lot will depend on  whether there are any positives you can get from this RS that you are unlikely to otherwise have. ie Your little nugget of tangible benefit. It may seem mercenary, but at times the feel good of emotion is not always enough to get you though tough times, this is when tangible benefits will help to toughen it through.

Thank you. Keeping it real here... .tangible benefits. Those are hard. I'll be honest:

Really amazing lovemaking

He can be very generous with his time, loves to run to the store for me, that sort thing

Great conversationalist when he isn't triggered

When he stayed here he would help around the house.

Can be very affectionate, is smart, funny

Fringe benefits of shared friends, social life, artistic community

I think for me the fear of losing the relationship is in part being addicted to the drama cycle, loving him intensely, having my own abandonment fears. This relationship has brought me a lot of hopes and dreams. We had planned to get married... .It is hard to let go of those things. The times we are broken up are intensely sad and hard for me. I have my own addiction issues to this relationship. The thing is I know I could get all the above and plenty more from someone else. I often have suitors who clearly could offer stability, consistency, and everything else I want. But I am not in love with them. I can't see myself falling in love with anyone else, though there are times I've hoped that would happen.

I appreciate you listening to me unravel all these feelings.

[Cat Familiar]

You need strong goals and boundaries for yourself. It will mean you will need to take on a lot of control without appearing to do so. Lots of "I" decions and less "You" requests.

Ultimately pwBPD rely on the strength and structure of others without openly handling over control. This is their personal pride. It takes a lot of diplomacy. It feels like enabling, and there is a danger of that, but you can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.

You need to be fully aware of your reality, and accept that theirs is somewhat different and nothing is to be achieved by attempting to sell them yours. They may absorb some of it but it will never fully fit with them, it is alien to them as theirs is to you.

Is this for you? Does it feel like compromise? Only you can answer this. A lot will depend on  whether there are any positives you can get from this RS that you are unlikely to otherwise have. ie Your little nugget of tangible benefit. It may seem mercenary, but at times the feel good of emotion is not always enough to get you though tough times, this is when tangible benefits will help to toughen it through.

Once I transited through the stages of grief about what I thought my perfect romantic relationship was, compared to the realization that my BPD husband had duped me in the beginning and there is an enormous gulf between how he initially presented and who he really is... .then I thought, Now what?

The anger still pops up but I temper it somewhat by the realization that I, too, was on my best behavior at the beginning. The difference being that I didn't try to be someone I'm not, just a less sloppy version of my best self.

Then I began the process of analyzing my relationship as I would if I put it on a spreadsheet. Doing this made me realize the pluses and minuses and ultimately the sum total was a positive. Being an unemotional, analytical person helps with this step.

So, as irritating as dealing with some of his behavior can be, ultimately I feel like it's a good relationship. We all have baggage and its up to us to determine whether another person's burden is too much to live with.

I was really naive and inexperienced when I got together with my first husband. He was determined that we'd be together and I just went with his program. After many years when I was able to get an overview of that relationship, the costs, risks and benefits didn't pencil out and I knew I was done. I wish I hadn't waited so long, but once I make a commitment, I tend to keep that commitment.

[waverider]

I think for me the fear of losing the relationship is in part being addicted to the drama cycle, loving him intensely, having my own abandonment fears. This relationship has brought me a lot of hopes and dreams. We had planned to get married... .It is hard to let go of those things. The times we are broken up are intensely sad and hard for me. I have my own addiction issues to this relationship. The thing is I know I could get all the above and plenty more from someone else. I often have suitors who clearly could offer stability, consistency, and everything else I want. But I am not in love with them. I can't see myself falling in love with anyone else, though there are times I've hoped that would happen.

I appreciate you listening to me unravel all these feelings.

These relationships are like a drug, but like any drug they eventually tarnish and we fear withdrawal more than reaping the highs.

It is important to differentiate between the person and the reality of being with them verses the imagined or promised fantasy, no matter how plausible it may seem.

A lack of being in touch with reality enables people to embellish their fantasies more as they dont doubt their ability to achieve them. Embellished fantasies are always more exciting, and we all like to have dreams to look forward to.