My wife is a wonderful mother, but.. ~

[RichButPoor]

I am new to this board. Just want to say hi. My wife would be somebody who fits the profile of a person with BPD to the T. I won't say that she has BPD for two reasons: a) I am still not convinced that BPD is a real illness and b) even if I am convinced that BPD is an illness, I am not a psychiatrist to diagnose it. BPD or not, the effect of her intense emotions on me is very real. Her intense emotions have caused some serious damage to my own emotional well being.

We've been married for 25+ years. Together, we raised two wonderful kids. She has been a great mother to our kids. I have a one of the best jobs in the world. By most measures of accomplishments, name recognition / fame, and financial stability I would be considered a major success. There are no issues with our mutual fidelity. No substance use (much less abuse) - not even alcohol - by either one of us. We have no major financial troubles. With due modesty, I would consider myself to be a great father (and my therapist agrees). Without any hesitation, I would welcome any man with a personality similar to mine as my son-in-law. When my son was born, my expectation of him was that I wanted him to be as good a man as I am and accomplish at least half as much as I could. I don't want to jinx my kids' potential, but it is very likely that they both will accomplish far more than I could accomplish.

For many years, from the outside we looked like a perfect family. Yet, my life has been hell for all but the first two years of my marriage. It got progressively worse. My wife's own feelings of emptiness, which she admitted to me on occasion, made her distance from the rest of the world and drive our family into nuclear isolation. I am an outgoing person. Yet, I yielded to her insecurities and stopped inviting anybody to our home. When somebody invited us to their place, she refused to go with me and I went alone either for courtesy or for genuine liking to those invited us. Since there is no reciprocation, eventually we don’t get invited by anybody anywhere. She is perfectly fine with it and I am not.

I could go on and on. Why bore you with more details since you already got an idea. As any average man would, my expectations from my wife were her friendship, admiration, approval, intimacy, maternal nurturing when I am feeling down. But, with my therapist I summarized my long relationship with my wife as following:

When I needed a mother, she was acting like a 10-year old who won't stop crying for her father. I had no choice but become her father and console her deep into nights even though I myself was extremely tired and sleepy. When I longed for intimacy, she acted more like a 80-year old granny who had no desire for intimacy.

Ladies and gentlemen, these days I keep asking myself the question: How does joy look like?

RichButPoor

(Ability-rich and joy-poor)

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Turkish]

Hello RichButPoor,



23 years is certainly a long time to live in "hell." I was only with my Ex for 6 years, but before she left, I realized that we had a Father-Daughter r/s. I can't pinpoint when the dynamic started, but it horrified me when I realized it.

It's understandable that many of us unwittingly or otherwise step into the dynamic of replacing a broken attachment. However, a member here once wrote something like, "you can fix your problems with one person with a completely different person." Someone with BPD traits isn't likely to have the emotional maturity to realize this.

Care-taking may seem right at the time, especially if it helps to reduce conflict,.but it's ultimately not good for either party. A recource that many here recommend is this:

Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist

Your wife has traits (else you wouldn't have landed here), yet you don't necessarily are convinced that BPD is a mental illness. That may actually be good, since what is the Dx except for a collection of certain traits. Many members here have loved ones who have the Dx, but it's really left to, "ok, now what?" That's where we come in to working to make things better for the family, and ultimately for us.

You posted to Co-Parenting, however. How old are the kids, and what's going on with them?

Turkish

[RichButPoor]

Thanks for the reply.

Hello RichButPoor,



... .

You posted to Co-Parenting, however. How old are the kids, and what's going on with them?

Turkish

Posting should have been to SO. Please change the thread if possible.

My kids (both in their 20s) are grownup to be great and very productive citizens. Unlike their mother, they have friends and pretty outgoing. My wife is basically a good person. She just didn't instincts to be a wife. After several years into marriage, I recognized that she is not normal. I began to look her as a child of mine, a problem child who never grows up. I honestly feel that you don't leave a wounded soldier behind in the battle of life. I also didn't want my then young kids to turn out to be losers because of a break up while bearing the stress of dealing with their mother's intense emotions.

That's why leaving my wife is an option I never entertained. She had a heart attack and cardiac arrest from which she was clinically dead for 3 min before being resuscitated. After that, she went through terrible ordeal with her health in the past few years. If she was a problem-child before, now she is a problem-child in poor health. Leaving her now would be a completely a heartless act on my part and therefore that choice is even more out of the equation.

Despite the troubles between us for all these years, the fear of losing her because of her heart disease frightens me. I can't say I am doing a good job of taking care of her because she uses me as a punching bag, while at the same time wearing a mask with kids and the rest of the family. Oh, I do have friends and a social life but we have no social life as a family, which means that our support network is incomplete. Staying away from potential 'family friends' has been the path of least resistance for me, because she cannot 'handle' any guests or maintain a longterm friendship with anybody.

I talk to a therapist, to recover emotionally. Even though I still want to be in denial about BPD (or else I will not survive), I came here for different kind of support. That is, to share my story and find out better coping mechanisms.

[ArleighBurke]

Not being able to bear the thought of losing her puts you in a difficult position. Obviously you love her - you've been married 25+ yrs and stuck through everything. But if she treats you poorly then why do you stay?

I'm not saying staying is wrong - but you need to understand why you stay. Is it from guilt? Fear? Love? I think you need to understand this to work out your direction forward.

As a side note on BPD not being an illness: my personal opinion is that each human is driven by a mix of logic and emotions. Men in general are more logic driven - perhaps 70% logic, 30% emotion (but there is certainly a wide range). At the end of the spectrum you have engineers robots - who are 95%+ logic driven and <5% emotionally driven. (These may also be sociopaths). Women in general are more emotionally driven (perhaps 40% logic and 60% emotion). And on this end of the spectrum you have BPD suffers - perhaps 80% emotions and 20% logic. So to me, BPD is simply a label for the "extreme end" of the mix.

[Notwendy]

As to BPD being a mental illness- consider that like many conditions, BPD is on a spectrum from severe to mild, to some traits. Where the line between mental illness is and BPD traits is probably not perfectly clear and something for a professional to decide. Many of us on this board have so's or family members who are undiagnosed but have many of the behaviors of a pw BPD.

IMHO, a good use of the "label" for us is not to diagnose- that isn't our domain, but to use the model of BPD for understanding our relationship and our SOs behaviors. Ultimately, for all of us, our SO's "label" is most useful to us if it leads us to looking at our own behaviors and responses. BPD can then be seen as a starting point.

What has been most useful to me in identifying behaviors is to not take them as personally as I did. Once I see them as part of how another person functions, than something that is my fault, I became less emotionally reactive to them. It also led me to learn more about how my behaviors were shaped in my FOO and how they were acting in my relationship. It then helped me to identify the behaviors I had that I wanted to change. At this point, whether BPD is an illness or not mattered less than what behaviors I wanted to work on.

It must be very hard to deal with a spouse with a serious illness like heart disease, in addition to BPD. Still, you don't have to tolerate being used as a punching bag. It is good that you have a T to help you with this.

It is difficult to be a caregiver for someone and feel you don't get nurturing. As you know, this nurturing is something many of us need to learn to do for ourselves- having activities that feed your soul- whatever those are- hiking, reading. It is good that you have friends. I understand that frustration as my H and I do not have friends as a couple. In addition, we have different interests. This used to bother me, but really, two people are two different people and so, we can have different friends and interests and find social support through work, friends, clubs, religious organizations if we choose.

Caregivers need breaks- BPD or not. You say you have a good job and your kids are grown. If you have not considered this already, using some of your income to hire housekeeping, arrange for prepared meals, can give you some free time. Your wife may not have the stamina for some of these things, so hiring help can give you more free time. She may not like it if you are not around the house as much, but as long as she is OK, or someone is there to help, then you can have some personal time without worry that she is not going to be OK ( angry maybe but OK).  While you may fear upsetting her because of her heart, ( that is scary) know that this isn't something you can control. Once she has good medical care, and her physical needs are met, her health, and her emotions are not something you can control.

[RichButPoor]

...

I'm not saying staying is wrong - but you need to understand why you stay. Is it from guilt? Fear? Love? I think you need to understand this to work out your direction forward.

...

Men in general are more logic driven - perhaps 70% logic, 30% emotion (but there is certainly a wide range). At the end of the spectrum you have engineers robots - who are 95%+ logic driven and <5% emotionally driven. (These may also be sociopaths). Women in general are more emotionally driven (perhaps 40% logic and 60% emotion). And on this end of the spectrum you have BPD suffers - perhaps 80% emotions and 20% logic. So to me, BPD is simply a label for the "extreme end" of the mix.

Yes, I am an engineer and a man. So, according to your figures, it would make me 66.6% logical. Just kidding.

I stay in because she is basically a good person and honestly cares about me. But she doesn't realize that her behavior is hurting. May be this mindset defies logic.

[RichButPoor]

Notwendy, I really appreciate your words. Let me think through before I respond in detail.

As to BPD being a mental illness- consider that like many conditions, BPD is on a spectrum from severe to mild, to some traits. Where the line between mental illness is and BPD traits is probably not perfectly clear and something for a professional to decide. Many of us on this board have so's or family members who are undiagnosed but have many of the behaviors of a pw BPD.

IMHO, a good use of the "label" for us is not to diagnose- that isn't our domain, but to use the model of BPD for understanding our relationship and our SOs behaviors. Ultimately, for all of us, our SO's "label" is most useful to us if it leads us to looking at our own behaviors and responses. BPD can then be seen as a starting point.

What has been most useful to me in identifying behaviors is to not take them as personally as I did. Once I see them as part of how another person functions, than something that is my fault, I became less emotionally reactive to them. It also led me to learn more about how my behaviors were shaped in my FOO and how they were acting in my relationship. It then helped me to identify the behaviors I had that I wanted to change. At this point, whether BPD is an illness or not mattered less than what behaviors I wanted to work on.

It must be very hard to deal with a spouse with a serious illness like heart disease, in addition to BPD. Still, you don't have to tolerate being used as a punching bag. It is good that you have a T to help you with this.

It is difficult to be a caregiver for someone and feel you don't get nurturing. As you know, this nurturing is something many of us need to learn to do for ourselves- having activities that feed your soul- whatever those are- hiking, reading. It is good that you have friends. I understand that frustration as my H and I do not have friends as a couple. In addition, we have different interests. This used to bother me, but really, two people are two different people and so, we can have different friends and interests and find social support through work, friends, clubs, religious organizations if we choose.

Caregivers need breaks- BPD or not. You say you have a good job and your kids are grown. If you have not considered this already, using some of your income to hire housekeeping, arrange for prepared meals, can give you some free time. Your wife may not have the stamina for some of these things, so hiring help can give you more free time. She may not like it if you are not around the house as much, but as long as she is OK, or someone is there to help, then you can have some personal time without worry that she is not going to be OK ( angry maybe but OK).  While you may fear upsetting her because of her heart, ( that is scary) know that this isn't something you can control. Once she has good medical care, and her physical needs are met, her health, and her emotions are not something you can control.