What's my next move ... if anything?

[Anez]

My ex and I are a few months out from the end off what was a great relationship, or so I thought. there was no rage but there were BPD traits that I didn't know about until I started seeing a new therapist who knows a lot about BPD>

And I still want her back. And I don't know how to do that.

We went a month of ignoring each other at work after our break and not contacting each other. we went out of our way to not see each other at work. I didn't reach out on her birthday and neither of us reached out on new years.

in the past month or so we've gone from ignoring each other at work to saying hello. then we moved up to light, fun conversations where I was back to acting like the fun guy she became interested in. and she is back to laughing at some things I say. She even replied to a text last week saying it was really nice to talk with me that day at work. so there's been some movement there.

We've traded texts the past few weeks, tho they're usually once or twice a week at tops and she's always very nice in her replies. Our last text exchange was last monday when i said "man you looked really good at work today." She replied back, "thank you very much." One was a pic i sent to her of a book she got me for my bday in july and me thanking her for it. She replied back saying I knew you would appreciate it.

So it's just been that kind of light stuff with some meaning but not a lot. The looks text was the first and only text that has had even a vague sense of sexual feelings in it. I don't want to bring up anything about how things abruptly came to an end because i want to show her that I'm not gonna be the clingy, emotional guy i was in the few weeks after our break.

I'm always the one initiating texts. She hasn't initiated in a long, long time. Right now I'm waiting to see if she'll initiate, that's why I haven't texted her since last monday.

Every day at work is hard for me because I miss what we once had as a friendship and how now we barely talk. It's just overwhelming at some points to think that she has gone so far away from what we were. We used to eat lunch together all the time, or get tea together all the the time, and instant message each other all the time during work - and now we don't do any of those things.

but i feel like there have been some small steps taken.

So what's my next move here? Wait for her to text ... .which might never happen. Keep initiating texts every now and then? Just completely back away from her and contacting her?

thanks for any help.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[kc sunshine]

I think you are doing great! Keep up the low key, chill, and fun emails . I'd say keep initiating a couple times a week, if that is the pattern that is going well.

[Anez]

Just texted back and forth for 90 minutes. Started w a joke about work then traded songs back and forth and kept it light. It was good.

[kc sunshine]

Just texted back and forth for 90 minutes. Started w a joke about work then traded songs back and forth and kept it light. It was good.

Great-- fingers crossed for you.

[EaglesJuju]

Hi Anez,

It seems that your texting conversations have been working well. 

Light and fun conversations worked well for me too when I was coming out of no contact periods with my boyfriend.  I understand the uncertainty of whether or not to initiate texts, phone calls, or conversations, especially after a period of not speaking. I felt the same way and I was almost hyper vigilant with who texted or reached out to whom first. I took his lack of reaching out really personally and thought that he was indifferent towards me. Do you feel this way too?

Then I thought of when we were in better periods in the past, I really did not think of who reached out first. Once I let go of the worry, if I saw or thought of something funny, I sent him a text or email.  After awhile he started warming up and reached out first by sending me funny texts and emails.

I understand how overwhelming and hard it is to feel like you are going back to square one. I have been there myself and thought the same thing. The caveat is that is you have more knowledge and tools than you did before.

[Anez]

Thanks all. Just taking it one step at a time.

I realized one of the songs I sent her had some suicide themes in it and instantly said don't listen to that song listen to this one, it's better. I hope she didn't listen to that song and have any crazy thoughts about why i sent it. I honestly sent it because it was a woman singer with some attitude that I thought she'd like. Then i really listened to the words and was like oh no, that's not a good song to send. I'm guessing she didn't listen to it.

But yea, it's all about keeping it light and fun. I used to make her laugh a lot and have made her laugh a few times the last few weeks. She's definitely keeping her guard up with me but Eagles is right - i do have more knowledge and tools this time around and that definitely helps.

[Anez]

Well we just shared a quick laugh at work and she looked happy to see me so I guess my concerns about the song were just me overthinking things ... .which is easy to do with BPDs!

[EaglesJuju]

Well we just shared a quick laugh at work and she looked happy to see me so I guess my concerns about the song were just me overthinking things ... .which is easy to do with BPDs!

It can be easy to be hyper vigilant and worried. Honestly, the best thing to do is not worry and let things happen. 

I am glad that things seem to be turning around. Keep us updated.   

[Anez]

Thanks, Eagles. I can't figure out why she won't initiate contact via text but she will reply even a bunch of times. maybe i'm overthinking things again but it's been so long since she initiated.

I will try not to worry and let things happen as they may.

But man, when i see her or hear her at work I just feel this anxiety of how much I want to be back to what we were. I sent her an email at work today with a song from one of the bands she introduced me to last night. Just told her it was a cool song and she'd like it. never heard back from her.

Gotta keep putting out my "playing it cool" face and just let things happen.

[Anez]

I sent her a text two hours ago about a song she recommended and she hasn't replied. That, and her non reply to my email today at work about another song, has my brain going crazy again. God I can be so lame sometimes.

No more texts or emails about songs it is!

[MapleBob]

I sent her a text two hours ago about a song she recommended and she hasn't replied. That, and her non reply to my email today at work about another song, has my brain going crazy again. God I can be so lame sometimes.

No more texts or emails about songs it is!

I had lots of similar periods of interaction with my ex that felt progressive like this, and you know where that got me. I don't mean to be discouraging - I think that your situation has been looking up! - but yeah, lay back a bit now. Non-responses are just generally unacceptable and rude, and they send a message.

[Anez]

Thanks Maple, totally agree. It is rude.

As much as I want to be back with her I know it would take a lot of work and the second attempt would likely never be as good as the first time.

I still care about her even tho she couldn't really give a rip about me. That much is clear.

I'm still just so stunned by the discard. It's like an everlasting disbelief that haunts me every day. It's exhausting thinking about her as much as I do. It doesn't help that I have to see and hear her every day at work.

I went on a first date the other night and the woman was good looking and fun but there was just something missing - she wasn't my ex.

Part of me wishes I could just wipe my brain clear of my ex and never know she ever existed.

[MapleBob]

Thanks Maple, totally agree. It is rude.

As much as I want to be back with her I know it would take a lot of work and the second attempt would likely never be as good as the first time.

I still care about her even tho she couldn't really give a rip about me. That much is clear.

I'm still just so stunned by the discard. It's like an everlasting disbelief that haunts me every day. It's exhausting thinking about her as much as I do. It doesn't help that I have to see and hear her every day at work.

I went on a first date the other night and the woman was good looking and fun but there was just something missing - she wasn't my ex.

Part of me wishes I could just wipe my brain clear of my ex and never know she ever existed.

I absolutely relate to that. Mine is now refusing to do a final phone call, and will only text me on Friday night to do the final goodbye (or whatever). The hard push away. For seemingly no good reason. She just wants me gone, and that's really hard to take.

You, however, have at least had *some* positive contact, and no overwhelmingly negative contact (just a lack of positive contact). If you push the issue you'll likely get negative contact. You have an advantage that I don't, which is the ability to force her to see you in person. As much as it suuuuuuuucks, I'd advise you to suck it up and act like it's no big deal and continue to be friendly and positive when you two cross paths. If she wanted to send a message by NOT sending a message, don't let her know that it affected you.

[Anez]

Sorry to hear that she will only text you the final goodbye. That says a lot about her.

And that is really good advice. I will keep up sucking it up and putting out the fun and happy face around her. Because just by doing that and by not bringing up relationship stuff all this time shows strength. I do have strength and I need to give myself credit for that.

thank you, maple.

[MapleBob]

Sorry to hear that she will only text you the final goodbye. That says a lot about her.

And that is really good advice. I will keep up sucking it up and putting out the fun and happy face around her. Because just by doing that and by not bringing up relationship stuff all this time shows strength. I do have strength and I need to give myself credit for that.

thank you, maple.

I'm not sure what it says about her, but you're right. It's like "why the hell not?"

Keeping it light and fun and staying attractive and strong didn't really help me ultimately, but I think it'll help you. It seemed to be getting you positive results for a little bit at least, so take that information and do more of that. But chill for a bit first.

You're welcome!

[Anez]

Yea, been doing my best to be the guy I was when we met. Because I need to go back to being myself for myself alone.

Because of the holidays I haven't seen my T in over 2 weeks. really looking forward to seeing him tomorrow. My brain needs it.

I'm definitely going to chill now, tho, with texts/communication.

[EaglesJuju]

Thanks, Eagles. I can't figure out why she won't initiate contact via text but she will reply even a bunch of times. maybe i'm overthinking things again but it's been so long since she initiated.

It may take her some time to initiate things. From my experience, my boyfriend did not reach out to me for a long time. As I found out later, he could not handle it because he was dysregulating.  Responding to you is a good sign.

But man, when i see her or hear her at work I just feel this anxiety of how much I want to be back to what we were. I sent her an email at work today with a song from one of the bands she introduced me to last night. Just told her it was a cool song and she'd like it. never heard back from her.

She could have been busy, did not get a chance to listen to the song, did not receive your text, was tired, or did not think the e-mail needed a response. There are a lot of reasons. I understand that it is easy to right away think of the worst case scenario. I tended to think of the worst case and I spent a lot of time worrying about things that never ended up happening.  

Have you seen her today?

[Anez]

Thanks, Eagles. Your experiences and advice help me a lot. It's all about not worrying and letting things happen. My brain gets going and your words help reel things in.

Haven't seen her yet today, only from a distance.

I'm just gonna keep being me. the real me. the good me.

[EaglesJuju]

Thanks, Eagles. Your experiences and advice help me a lot. It's all about not worrying and letting things happen. My brain gets going and your words help reel things in.

Haven't seen her yet today, only from a distance.

I'm just gonna keep being me. the real me. the good me.

It is my pleasure. When I am worried, it helps me to talk about it and listen to other people's perspectives. I understand how tough it is with anxiety from the push-pull. It is like you feel as if you are waiting for the inevitable push to happen.  PwBPD are really hyper sensitive and many times can tell when another is worried or has anxiety.  As the non-BPD partner, our reactions can either exacerbate or assuage dysregulation or emotional sensitivity. When I started worrying less and had my own anxiety tamed, it made such a difference. 

Remember, she fell in love with the real you. 

[Anez]

Thanks, Eagles. I sometimes think that her not contacting me is going to lead her to forgetting about me, which hurts. or that it's gonna lead her so far away that she never even thinks of coming back.

I just gotta keep being me and let things play out as they will.

And i gotta learn to push all the good memories deeper into my brain because they pop up all the time and hurt me. So many little triggers.

[MapleBob]

Thanks, Eagles. I sometimes think that her not contacting me is going to lead her to forgetting about me, which hurts. or that it's gonna lead her so far away that she never even thinks of coming back.

I just gotta keep being me and let things play out as they will.

And i gotta learn to push all the good memories deeper into my brain because they pop up all the time and hurt me. So many little triggers.

Man, I relate to that! Stay cool, my man. It helped me for a while with my ex.

[Anez]

Just saw her and her friend, who i'm also friends with, having lunch in the lounge. I go over and say hello and her friend asks me what i did for NYE. I say i went on a road trip with some friends. the ex says, in a joking manner/tone "you don't have any friends!"

she always jokes with people like that but i just smiled and said I had tons of friends.

then i asked her friend about her boyfriend who was hit by a car last week. She said he was doing better and I said that was good to hear. then I went and filled up my water bottle and went back to my desk.

[Brab]

Hi Anez,

I was intrigued by your post as it seems to have some similarities to my situation. I'm pretty sure my ex has BPD as well as some npd traits. I was discarded last month without ceremony after a very intense 3 month relationship that was pretty much split right up the middle; 6 weeks of idealising, followed by 6 weeks of devalue and a very abrupt discard via text. There's more to it than that, as there always is, but that's the short version.

I've been dumped before and by women far more beautiful than her but this one has just floored me, I was absolutely gutted and I was at a loss to understand why, other than I made the mistake of letting her know how much I was into her... .pretty much when devalue started, funny that! That's when I started looking around and doing some research around BPD/npd and I think I may have my answer... .

Anyway, I just said I understood and returned her things via recorded delivery just as she asked and went hardcore no contact, including Xmas N Year and no response to her Xmas card saying she had hoped we could remain "friends" (don't think so!). I made a concerted effort not to go places where our paths might cross however I ran into her for the first time on Monday night. I could tell she was a bit awkward and initially she didn't make eye contact but I thought it best to take the high ground and when I caught her eye, I smiled and she smiled back. When the event was over I walked over and gave her a hug and kiss to which she responded very well and she just started talking and didn't seem to want to stop. Her face was very close and she was looking right into my eyes and essentially the conversation felt as if she were looking for my approval around certain things she was doing in her life. This was almost EXACTLY as our relationship started as she approached me (threw herself at me is more like it) in the style of the "vulnerable seducer" that I've read about. I thought it best to be the one to step away from the conversation which I did but when I left the venue she was still outside. I walked over, gave her another hug/kiss and told her it was nice to see her and left.

I have gone back to no contact but can't deny the urge to send her a quick message just to test the waters. She seemed very pleased to see me and it was obvious to me the attraction is still very much alive. I'm very torn over this as there's a part of me that thinks I'd be crazy to get back in the ring with this woman and another part of me that longs for her in a way that I'm not sure I've ever experienced. It's soo confusing... .I just don't understand why this woman got so far under my skin... .it's extraordinary... .

I'm going travelling to India for a month very soon to stay at an Ashram and do a little spiritual healing which I told her when I saw her. I'm torn between making some light contact with her before I go or waiting until I return with a clear head. I guess I can't deny I want her back... .at least today I do.

I thought your post was very well written and I had a lot of identification. Much like you, I suppose I wonder why she doesn't contact me (tho it's only been 2 days) since she was the dumper. I'd be eager to hear anyone's thoughts on my situation? I wish I had some thoughts for you Anez but I'm very new to this although I'm pretty sure that had I done anything other than no contact, the result when I did finally see her would have been very different. I hope things work out for you and everyone else here! All the best... .

[EaglesJuju]

Thanks, Eagles. I sometimes think that her not contacting me is going to lead her to forgetting about me, which hurts. or that it's gonna lead her so far away that she never even thinks of coming back.

It is common for many people to think that a pwBPD will forget about you. It is true that some people who suffer from BPD have issues with object permanence (out of sight, out of mind). Although, it really does not "erase" someone.  

With circumstances of my relationship and the number of times of NC (initiated by him) I would have bet my life that he forgot about me. Hell, he basically displayed behavior that reinforced these thoughts.

He explained things to me when he was more stable and returned back into my life. He specifically told me that was not the case and thought about me everyday. He would hear one of our songs on the radio or see something that reminded him of me. He thought of me all the time and missed me. The first reaction I thought was why didn't he reach out? Before he began to tell me why he didn't reach out, I answered my own question in my head. I was thinking of my situation from a "normal" perspective and that was making things even harder for me. It makes complete sense from a BPD perspective. It is a script in a sense. A person with sensitivity to emotions and experiences them more so than others, who ultimately cannot control or regulate those emotions. As a result, they engage in maladaptive coping mechanisms, such as impulsive behavior, avoidance, escapism in order to feel better or regulate their emotions. Once their emotions regulate or go back to a "baseline," their own feelings of shame, guilt, low self-esteem, low self-worth, and self-loathing, are triggered as a response to  maladaptive self-regulating behavior; then the cycle repeats itself. He reaffirmed this by telling me that he felt too much shame and sadness reaching out to me. He felt like he was a horrible person for the things he did and did not deserve me.  He wanted to reach out to me, but had so much shame. Then he would do something, like drinking to numb or make himself forget about his feelings. When he sobered up, the cycle would repeat itself.  

[Anez]

And now she's just sitting at the table, which is near my desk, just laughing it up with her two friends.

It's moments like these that I think she's a child and I am so much better off not being consumed by her.

It's just her tone and her carefree attitude that really just annoys me right now. and i have to just sit at my desk and take it.

[Anez]

Hi Anez,

I was intrigued by your post as it seems to have some similarities to my situation. I'm pretty sure my ex has BPD as well as some npd traits. I was discarded last month without ceremony after a very intense 3 month relationship that was pretty much split right up the middle; 6 weeks of idealising, followed by 6 weeks of devalue and a very abrupt discard via text. There's more to it than that, as there always is, but that's the short version.

I've been dumped before and by women far more beautiful than her but this one has just floored me, I was absolutely gutted and I was at a loss to understand why, other than I made the mistake of letting her know how much I was into her... .pretty much when devalue started, funny that! That's when I started looking around and doing some research around BPD/npd and I think I may have my answer... .

Anyway, I just said I understood and returned her things via recorded delivery just as she asked and went hardcore no contact, including Xmas N Year and no response to her Xmas card saying she had hoped we could remain "friends" (don't think so!). I made a concerted effort not to go places where our paths might cross however I ran into her for the first time on Monday night. I could tell she was a bit awkward and initially she didn't make eye contact but I thought it best to take the high ground and when I caught her eye, I smiled and she smiled back. When the event was over I walked over and gave her a hug and kiss to which she responded very well and she just started talking and didn't seem to want to stop. Her face was very close and she was looking right into my eyes and essentially the conversation felt as if she were looking for my approval around certain things she was doing in her life. This was almost EXACTLY as our relationship started as she approached me (threw herself at me is more like it) in the style of the "vulnerable seducer" that I've read about. I thought it best to be the one to step away from the conversation which I did but when I left the venue she was still outside. I walked over, gave her another hug/kiss and told her it was nice to see her and left.

I have gone back to no contact but can't deny the urge to send her a quick message just to test the waters. She seemed very pleased to see me and it was obvious to me the attraction is still very much alive. I'm very torn over this as there's a part of me that thinks I'd be crazy to get back in the ring with this woman and another part of me that longs for her in a way that I'm not sure I've ever experienced. It's soo confusing... .I just don't understand why this woman got so far under my skin... .it's extraordinary... .

I'm going travelling to India for a month very soon to stay at an Ashram and do a little spiritual healing which I told her when I saw her. I'm torn between making some light contact with her before I go or waiting until I return with a clear head. I guess I can't deny I want her back... .at least today I do.

I thought your post was very well written and I had a lot of identification. Much like you, I suppose I wonder why she doesn't contact me (tho it's only been 2 days) since she was the dumper. I'd be eager to hear anyone's thoughts on my situation? I wish I had some thoughts for you Anez but I'm very new to this although I'm pretty sure that had I done anything other than no contact, the result when I did finally see her would have been very different. I hope things work out for you and everyone else here! All the best... .

I'm sorry you're going through this, Brab. And I don't know if I have any advice because of what I'm going through right now. It's ups and downs. Most of my time i think i want her back and then i get angry at myself and just want to never think about her again.

it's good that you're taking a long trip. it will help you. If your heart says to reach out to her before you go I'd say go for it but keep it light with no relationship talk. nothing that can make you seem clingy or vulnerable.

this whole thing sucks.

[Anez]

Thanks, Eagles. I sometimes think that her not contacting me is going to lead her to forgetting about me, which hurts. or that it's gonna lead her so far away that she never even thinks of coming back.

It is common for many people to think that a pwBPD will forget about you. It is true that some people who suffer from BPD have issues with object permanence (out of sight, out of mind). Although, it really does not "erase" someone.  

With circumstances of my relationship and the number of times of NC (initiated by him) I would have bet my life that he forgot about me. Hell, he basically displayed behavior that reinforced these thoughts.

He explained things to me when he was more stable and returned back into my life. He specifically told me that was not the case and thought about me everyday. He would hear one of our songs on the radio or see something that reminded him of me. He thought of me all the time and missed me. The first reaction I thought was why didn't he reach out? Before he began to tell me why he didn't reach out, I answered my own question in my head. I was thinking of my situation from a "normal" perspective and that was making things even harder for me. It makes complete sense from a BPD perspective. It is a script in a sense. A person with sensitivity to emotions and experiences them more so than others, who ultimately cannot control or regulate those emotions. As a result, they engage in maladaptive coping mechanisms, such as impulsive behavior, avoidance, escapism in order to feel better or regulate their emotions. Once their emotions regulate or go back to a "baseline," their own feelings of shame, guilt, low self-esteem, low self-worth, and self-loathing, are triggered as a response to  maladaptive self-regulating behavior; then the cycle repeats itself. He reaffirmed this by telling me that he felt too much shame and sadness reaching out to me. He felt like he was a horrible person for the things he did and did not deserve me.  He wanted to reach out to me, but had so much shame. Then he would do something, like drinking to numb or make himself forget about his feelings. When he sobered up, the cycle would repeat itself.  

That is all very good info for me, Eagles. I'm sorry for everything you went through. How did it end up with you guys?

I'm fuming right now stemming from what I talked about in the post below. And feeling very trapped at work. here's this girl who is in the office every day walking around carefree and loose and I'm spending 95 percent of my days thinking about it.

i hate it more than ever right now.

[EaglesJuju]

That is all very good info for me, Eagles. I'm sorry for everything you went through. How did it end up with you guys?

When I think about my story, it is actually unbelievable in a way. Things are going pretty well actually. The relationship has dramatically shifted within the last three months and evolved into in what could be considered equalitarian. I had to make a lot of changes and work on myself.

I'm fuming right now stemming from what I talked about in the post below. And feeling very trapped at work. here's this girl who is in the office every day walking around carefree and loose and I'm spending 95 percent of my days thinking about it.

You really cannot be sure if she is carefree and loose. It is highly likely that she may feel nervous too.  I think perhaps that is why she made the joking comment, to try to lighten things. 

Are you more upset that she is carefree or that you are having trouble being carefree at the moment?

[Anez]

I think it's a mixture of both. Like how she can she just treat me like i'm some random co-worker considering our past and why do i feel so much anxiety, anger, and pain that she can just cast me aside like this.

and then i have nowhere to go and have to see her like this every day. While I spend 90 percent of my days thinking about here, spending time on here opening up, and spending good money on weekly therapy.

it makes me angry and sad and makes me feel alone.

it's frustrating.

but maybe she was nervous as she does get anxiety around me. and i'm just blowing it up. it's just how i feel right now and i hate it.

[Brab]

Thanks for your support Anez... .I'm leaning into continued no contact (counterintuitive) at least until I have a chance to clear my head and get some intellect over emotion. I'm not without compassion for this woman, I'm sure it's not very nice to live in her head but I also love myself and under normal circumstances, I'd NEVER allow someone to treat me as she has treated me and this baffles me. I distinctly remember the day when the devaluation started and some of the comments she made I believe most would consider to be abusive. On one occasion when she snapped at me as I was driving her to a meeting in downtown London (messy), if she were anyone else I would have thrown her (not physically of course) out of my car... .but I just said quite firmly "you need to stay calm". This is just not my style. I don't mean to sound haughty, but I'm a fairly attractive, and more importantly, kind man and I don't have much trouble meeting women.

I had been nc for nearly a month when I saw her and I think things were starting to shift, but I have to admit seeing her on Monday has turned my brain back into porridge! I just don't get it. I also think ex's have this built in radar to the universe or something and they somehow know when we're single again. I've had one come sniffing around over the holidays who may be one of the most beautiful, kind, albeit a bit complicated women I've ever been with and I just can't be asked? I don't get it but before I do anything I think I need to get it, really get it. I've been reading stories about people who take their lives over this stuff and I believe we can be playing with fire here if we're not careful but as I said, at this point, I still want her back and I think the best thing at least for me, for now, is no contact which is INCREDIBLY difficult. I think that anything else I do right now will be seen as needy and I believe that if there is to be a reconciliation, I need to be coming from a place of "not needy" aka power I suppose. I also think it would have to be on bilateral terms, not unilateral otherwise it's never going to work, at least not for me but wow, BPD/npd is a very powerful thing and I'm not afraid to admit I think that idealisation is soo powerful. I completely lost the plot. I'm very keen to hear of anyone else's experiences, particularly around nc... .