BPD: denial of emotional suffering?

[Pilpel]

Just by chance I picked up a copy of "People of the Lie" at Goodwill a few weeks ago.  It was a really fascinating read.  This psychiatrist describes some people he encountered that to me sounded straight up personality disordered. I didn't agree with a few things in his book, but the first 3/4ths of the book he makes some really interesting observations.  Here is one that I thought was interesting:

... .it is the unwillingness to suffer emotional pain that usually lies at the very root of emotional illness.  Those who fully experience depression, doubt, confusion, and despair may be infinitely more healthy than those who are generally certain, complacent, and self-satisfied.  The denial of suffering is, in fact, a better definition of illness than its acceptance.

The evil deny the suffering of their guilt --the painful awareness of their sin, inadequacy, and imperfection -by casting their pain onto others through projection and scapegoating.  They themselves may not suffer, but those around them do. 

... .It is consistently true that that the evil do not appear to suffer deeply.  Because they cannot admit to weakness or imperfection in themselves, they must appear this way.  They must appear to themselves to be continually on top of things, continually in command.

I know the term "evil" is strong.  But he comes from a religious perspective, and he hopes that evil can be cured.  But these sentences really struck me.  First because over the years I've had a lot of stress dealing with the BPD in my life.  When she's written long emails about how I've fallen short and hurt her, I have responded by first feeling confused, hurt, and bewildered because I know her perception of me as the offender and aggressor is not right.  But I've also taken her accusations of my failings somewhat to heart, and felt bad that she feels bad.  The book talks about, people who lie and scapegoat to avoid reality, cause confusion in others.  And that's very much what I experienced for years.  The BPD ultimately takes advantage of my naive impulse to assume that other people's perceptions of reality are right, and my own tendency toward self-doubt. The good part of dealing with this is that it's forced me to toughen up quite a bit.  Now I take the attitude of "my feelings are mine and your feelings are yours."  I still have self-doubt, but for better of worse, this experience has also made me more distrustful of other people's perceptions.   

These paragraphs also struck me because I recall one time after I tried to respond to an email of hers by JADEing, she wrote back even more crazy accusations.  And I had to interact with her the next day after reading it, which was so awkward.  I was completely shaken up and my voice became horse, and stayed horse for a couple months.  But she looked completely cool.  Other times when she's written crazy emails, I feel both shook up by her accusations but I also imagine the shame she must feel the next day for writing the things she does --because I know that's how I would feel if I wrote things like that.  But I don't really know that she ever has felt shame for what she's written.  And I don't know if the pain she claims to feel is really all she says it is or all I imagine it is.  And I don't know that she has ever thrown out crazy accusations at someone and ever considered how confused and hurt that person might be by it. I've told her before that I was very upset by an encounter with her, to the point that I had insomnia for days.  Her response was absurd, to completely control the narrative.  She confidently told me that I had insomnia because I had a miscarriage a month or so before.     

[Kwamina]

Hi Pilpel

You raise a lot of very interesting points here. The thoughts from the book you've shared here, are related to the BPD behaviors of 'projection' and 'splitting'. Both of these behaviors can also be seen as 'coping mechanisms' people with BPD use to deal with their own inner turmoil and emotions.

I can understand why your mother making false accusations would confuse and hurt you so. Even when you've come to the point that you realize the words are only a reflection of distorted thinking patterns, it still isn't pleasant to hear such things about oneself. Especially when you grow up in such an environment and this is basically all you know, it's very easy to mistake this false projection for the real you. You could also say that children who grow up like this in some ways never even got the chance to develop their 'real you'.

The point you make about your mother looking completely cool after writing something extremely hurtful to you, is something I can very much relate to. I found it shocking to see my mother act as if nothing had happened after certain extreme outbursts or other highly questionable behavior of hers. I could not understand this because like you I was thinking that If I had acted the way my mother had, I would feel very badly afterwards. She however didn't seem really affected or would try to put it on me. As a kid this is highly confusing and you might even start to doubt your own perceptions of reality and of right and wrong.

Since your mother is disordered, it could be that she perceives things in such a distorted way that in her own mind those false accusations actually make sense. It can be difficult to understand why people with BPD behave the way they do. Considering that their mind is 'wired' differently from non-disordered people, possibly explains why they behave a certain way in the first place and why after behaving this way, they then act in a way that seems odd (too cool, no guilt or shame etc.) from a rational point of view.

Thanks for sharing your insights!

[HappyChappy]

I know the term "evil" is strong.  But he comes from a religious perspective... .because I know that's how I would feel if I wrote things like that.  But I don't really know that she ever has felt shame for what she's written... .Her response was absurd, to completely control the narrative.  She confidently told me that I had insomnia because I had a miscarriage a month or so before.     

I share your turmoil over the points you raise. But even the Bible warned us against people that showed PD characteristics, and the lack of empathy and shame, allows “evil” to flourish better than any other human condition you care to mention.  Stephen Hawkins recently confirmed the lack of empathy is the biggest single risk facing our society. So it is evil, but that doesn't suppose all people with PD are evil, it's a mixture of nature and nuture. Both Churchill & Hitler had a PD, were they both evil ? We need these people with the warrior gean to keep us safe.

I think it’s great you describe your mothers attempts to project blame aware as “absurd” because they are so good at doing that, it’s great you can see it for what it is. We make excuses for loved ones with a PD, we say they’re not evil really they have coping mechanisms, and this is great for protect ourselves from the pain of the true reality, but we also risk enabling that behaviour. A hard line to tread.  But you sound switched on.

[Pilpel]

I'm glad you found the post helpful, endless.  I've just started reading another book by Peck. Aside from a bit exploring possession and exorcism, "People of the Lie" was a very insightful read.  If you have a story to relate, I hope you'll share. 


BTW, the BPD in my life is my sister in law, not my mother.  I understand why people would assume it was my mother, because mothers tend to dominate and influence a person more than other people.  As indicated, interacting with my SIL had a profound effect on me, because I'd never dealt with anyone like that before.  If I had a mother like her, and I had to grow up with her twisted reality, I think I would have a much harder time. 

[Linda Maria]

Hi Pilpel!  I was very interested to read your post, and it really resonated, because a lot of the things you mention I have also experienced - as I'm sure a lot of us have - with my uBPDsis.  When she really turned nasty with me 3 years ago, after our Mum died - it was just constant nasty and mad accusations.  For ages I couldn't understand it, putting the nastiness aside - the things she was saying didn't make sense, and most of them could be easily disproved.  She also has never showed any shame or remorse for anything - just ramps up the nasty lies about me.  The coolness after the nastiness also struck a chord.  When, after one particularly terrible day with her, when the things she said to me were so awful - and frankly disturbing - I managed to stay calm - my 12 year old daughter was in the house, and I didn't want things to get out of hand, so I stayed calm.  When I left, I said to her that I was sorry we seemed to have fallen out, and I hoped we could sort things out (hilarious considering the terrible things she had said to me) - but I wanted to keep things civilised - I kept hoping this madness would stop.  The look on her face was so cold, like she was dead behind the eyes, her expression was really weird and creepy.  When I got home that night, she had sent me an email - it was quite civilised, but it was more nonsense.  But it wasn't an email you would expect from someone who had called you the things she'd called me earlier that day.  It just didn't make sense.  I remember from years ago when we both lived at home, if she came home and was in a bad mood - she would always have a real go at someone - usually me - and just make me feel terrible.   My peace would be shattered, then 5 minutes later, when I was in bits having been horribly attacked (verbally) for absolutely nothing, she would be absolutely fine, and act all jolly and friendly, like it had never happened.  Never apologised.  Seemed like she had made herself feel better at my expense, so that was fine, no need to worry about how I felt.  I was clearly just a punch bag for those few minutes, and then I was expected to be her friend again!  There was a lot of that over the years, and she did that to my Mum as well quite regularly, after my Dad died.  Just wanted to share - as what you said sounded so familiar.  Good luck with everything - I may try to find those books - thanks for sharing.