How can I win her heart again?

[JapTuner2016]

Good afternoon everyone! Hope you're fine and in the best of health!

As the title of this thread reads, yes I am in desperate need of help and feel absolutely lost and confused and losing hope and feel like giving up but at the same time don't want to give up for the one that I love no matter what. I truly want to stand by her side forever and go the distance!

I'll start from the beginning and hopefully bring you all up to speed (this may be more than one post as it is a long story that's been going on the last 3.5 years+, hopefully it all makes sense) and then you can give me your input, feedback, criticism, advice, etc of what I should do, how I need to go about it, what I should say, etc.

The girl whom I love (let's call her Little Miss Chatterbox - self-explanatory of course, ) has BPD and I'm the non-BPD. She's from France and lives in London for about 9-10 years now, and I'm from Birmingham, moved to London for her back in April 2013. She's been unemployed since 2011 (her own personal reasons which I won't disclose; she was only diagnosed for BPD and put into a mental hospital around this time and released around late 2011/early 2012, after which she was put into a hostel for a few months before her housing coach arrange for a flat; she's on benefits and the council or something or another pays for her rent) and I only started my career in Accountancy around April 2012 (I'll be moving up the career ladder to becoming an Accounts Manager next month). She turned 30 in Oct and I turned 29 in Nov.

We met over on a marriage website before the London Olympics (around June 2012) and after exchanging a few messages we got talking over the phone most afternoons/nights as she lives alone and has very little to 0 (zero) friends, and of course me being nice (or would you call it feeling sorry for her?) did that from the kindness of my heart as I wanted to start off as being the true friend who'll always stay by her side no matter what, even if we argue, fight, etc we still always make up and get along, you know like one of those true best friends (except we didn't fight in the beginning). So I met her about a month later (mid-July 2012) to spend the weekend with her in London and it was fine (unfortunately/fortunately I've not dated previously and this is my only experience to date - yeah, I've dived right into the DEEPEST end and I didn't even realise what I got myself into at the time). I noticed she some scars on her arm (which she usually hides) and she turned her face away with a look in her eyes, like an WOW what's going to happen now is he going to freak out and run away and leave me forever kinda look, and after a few seconds she took the time to explain to me that she used to self-harm and told me about her BPD with the fear of leaving her. I told her there and then that I'll always stay with her, she's never be alone, and not to worry, I'll never let her go, for as long as she wanted me. She seemed to have been relieved at that to know I never freaked out and ran away, thinking that she was crazy or whatever. I may not fully understand to the extent of feeling exactly what someone with BPD experiences in their extreme happy and bad moods, but at this particular time it was all new to me and I was completely ignorant.

During the first few weeks-couple of months into our relationship, she told her family about us and she and I discussed about getting married, as obviously that is why we were on the marriage website to find someone to get married to, and she was getting a little pressurised by her family if I've told my family about her too and I didn't straight away because at the time I was scared/confused how my family would react as she was from another culture to myself (she's Arab and I'm Asian) - my family always told me they would be cool with inter-racial marriages as we have a few in our family from my mom's side, however I always feared that they would feel disappointed that I didn't marry from within our same community, even though I still strongly believe even today that Little Miss Chatterbox is the one for me (put BPD aside for a moment, she and I are complete opposites of each other with very little in common but a good understanding of each other). So I told my father in Sep 2012 and he kept on saying that we'll go and visit Little Miss Chatterbox on one of the weekends. Now my father was dragging this on and on for quite a few weeks to the point where it was starting to take the pi55 (how hard is it to take out a few hours on a Saturday or a Sunday just to visit 1 person? baring in my mind my father works from home/self-employed, so he's not super busy like a CEO of a big company) and in the end he comes out with that he doesn't know what to say to my mother and that he knows she won't react in a positive way about it. So by the time it was Halloween 2012, I gathered the courage to finally tell my mother and both of my sisters (I have no other siblings) about Little Miss Chatterbox all by myself, without my father's support. I sort of knew my mother and sisters wouldn't react in a positive way, however I gave them the benefit of the doubt with hope in my heart that maybe they'll give Little Miss Chatterbox a chance and that we'll go down to London and visit her, we'll all go to a restaurant, hang out together and have a nice day out. But I was wrong to even think that, and my mother and both of my sisters never reacted positively and were not interested - they just emphasised on the flaws that she's unemployed/not settled in any career since being in London for sometime (to them this shows instability and therefore incapable to financially support in my time of need), she never completed her university degree and therefore has nothing to fall back on whatsoever given her unemployment situation, her parents are divorced, she lives all alone far away from her family when she should be home taking care of her mother (even though she has 2 sisters and a brother back home in France that still take of their mother) and this sort of shows that she's a problem child, she's probably had so many boyfriends or slept with many guys/she's used, blah blah blah... .I think you get the idea, like jumping to conclusions, coming up with weird ideas (especially when they aren't even true), judging, etc. So since Halloween 2012 to today it's been quite stressful and difficult to get my family, or even at least 1 of them, on board to support me and Little Miss Chatterbox.

In the middle of Nov 2012, about a week before my birthday, Little Miss Chatterbox again brought the topic about my family coming down to London to meet with her and I told her that I'm still trying to push them to come it's just that they're busy at the moment. She reacted extremely upset and she does come up with very intelligent answers/justifications, which make total sense of any situation however it is all black and white thinking, and it is all thinking and thinking and thinking to the point where I'm forced to accept it is FACT. What came out of her mouth on this particular evening was breaking up with me and my heart sunk. By coincidence, one of my sisters peeped through the gap between my bedroom door and door frame and could see how upset I looked by my eyes and my face. I tried to calm down Little Miss Chatterbox and tell to please don't talk about breakups and that my family will come to meet her, just that sometimes these things take time especially with marriage. A couple of moments later my sister stormed into my room and shouted at me and told me, "You see you need to get rid of her, she's not loyal, she wants to break up with you, she's cheap and dirty, we don't need a sh!t person like that in our life!" I quickly hung up before Little Miss Chatterbox heard more of my sister's cursing, and I flipped out and told her off and even my parents told her off. I told my sister to apologise for what she said and she never did, not even today because she feels she the right thing by defending her brother (me), and my parents said that whatever my sister said Little Miss Chatterbox doesn't need to take it to heart as it's just a misunderstanding and it's not like my family and Little Miss Chatterbox have any closeness nor personal relations so just let it slide and no big deal. I got upset at that I was like this isn't right, I want to get married to Little Miss Chatterbox and I really want my family to come and meet with her and support us etc and this isn't the right way for any meeting/relationship to start.

When I spoke to Little Miss Chatterbox the next day she was hurt and upset not just at my sister for what she said but also at me for what I didn't do, which, according to Little Miss Chatterbox, is to have shouted and told my sister off there and then while Little Miss Chatterbox was on the phone so that she could hear me be her hero and can hear me defending her. Because I didn't do this, she doesn't believe I defended her at all.

Despite this, I still never told Little Miss Chatterbox about my family disapproving of her, not wanting to come meet with her and get to know her, etc until early April 2013, but we'll get to that later. So I told her that my family was busy instead, in order to just buy some time - basically I was fighting for her in the background and trying to protect her honour and respect because I know she is a good person and I didn't want to upset and disappoint her that my family doesn't want to know her. All I could do is beg, beg and beg my parents as my sisters were solid in their position and not willing to budge (oh, just do what mom says and everything will be fine, parents want what's best for their child, parents know best, listen to the parents, etc etc), however I couldn't take it anymore and I told Little Miss Chatterbox that we'll come visit her and family in France in the beginning of March 2013. My parents came along (they said they are going with an open mind and an open heart and will give her a chance) but neither of my 2 sisters came along - I paid for all 5 of our plane return tickets, plus paid for Little Miss Chatterbox's return Eurostar ticket. So the purpose of us going there was to meet with her and her family and ask for her hand in marriage (unfortunately we didn't get to the part for asking for her hand in marriage).

After visiting Little Miss Chatterbox and her family on that first weekend of March 2013, upon our return my parents still weren't interested - they said that she's not attractive (she's beautiful in my eyes), she's taller than me (only slightly), she's older than me (only by 1 year), she's fat and I'm slim and we look odd together and people will make fun of us (we'll go to the gym and work on improving our physiques). WOW, some of these things my parents were saying were just excuses, it's what's inside the heart that counts! I agree that when 2 people get married it is also when 2 families come together to become one, however it is the couple who are going to be building their lives together. So back to square one, even after seeing Little Miss Chatterbox, my parents weren't interested and didn't want to become any part of it at all and said that if I want to marry her then I can but they will not come nor be any part of it, they won't give their blessings, etc.

Little Miss Chatterbox and I still continued talking to each other over the phone every night, despite my mom keep on telling me to stop all contact with her and to let her go. I still told her that my parents were fine to have met her and they think that she's a good person (but I didn't tell her the part where my parents think she's not the right person for me and don't want us to get married so I continued to buy time and fight for her in the background). I was looking for a job in London throughout March 2013, not just for career progression, but mainly because I love Little Miss Chatterbox and wanted to move to be closer to her and get married and we live together in London. My mom told to not go to London until Little Miss Chatterbox is out of my life first but I never let that happen. On the night of the beginning of April 2013, she and I were talking over the phone and I could hear my mom starting to shout at me and I quickly told Little Miss Chatterbox that I'll call her back and hung up before she could hear my mom shouting at me. My mom came into my room and starting shouting and crying to me, telling me to stop contact with Little Miss Chatterbox and broke down into tears, and few moments later my father came in and told me to give him my phone and I did. He called Little Miss Chatterbox and explained to her that my family disapproves of her and I getting married and she broke down into tears over the phone. My father and her spoke for almost an hour over my phone and my father told her that we'll meet up and try to sort this out and maybe work things out and said that he'll come down the following Friday (the first week when I was going to start working in London). I called Little Miss Chatterbox the next day during my lunchbreak and she was still upset and asked why I never told her the truth that my family was against our marriage since the beginning and I told her I didn't meant to not tell her, I just fought for her and protected her in the background all this time and push and beg my family to come on board and that I really didn't want to disappoint her. The next Friday came and unfortunately my father never came to London at all because he was busy with work (like always - but hang on, it's the weekend anyway, and I'm your son so am I not important to you? Yes, I am important to my father but not for this marriage with Little Miss Chatterbox. This is not fair!). Little Miss Chatterbox and I both waited until after 11pm that night for my father that maybe he'll come (she knew my father would never come but I was still hopeful that he would), but he never turned up so Little Miss Chatterbox eventually had to go back to her flat and I stayed overnight in the train station and then caught the train back to Birmingham first thing Saturday morning (as I was commuting from Birmingham to London for the first 2 weeks before moving out and renting in a flat).

Despite knowing my family was against our marriage, Little Miss Chatterbox and I still continued our relationship. I planned to go visit her family again and finish what I initially came for, which was to ultimately ask for her hand in marriage and my flight was near the end of April 2013. Again, she took the Eurostar from London to France (I didn't pay on this occassion before any of you think that, ). We still discussed many times throughout these few weeks (before visiting her family again the 2nd time) how to get my family on board or at least my parents, which would then in effect get my sisters on board, and we argued several times and it was extremely overwhelming for me to experience her intense nature, the way she was so forceful, etc. When I went to visit her and her family in France, I was shy/scared/embarrassed and worried how they were all going to behave with me now, would it be awkward, am I going to get shouted at, am I going to get told off, etc. When I arrived at their home, everyone was so nice and understanding and supportive. Her brother, who older than us both, and I went out for a walk in the park later in the afternoon. We sat on a bench and discussed what's been happening with my family. He explained to me how fragile his sister, Little Miss Chatterbox, is and she's a very dedicated girl and that he believes in us that our marriage can work out. He also said that I should still try with my family, not upset them but try my best to bring them around in positive ways, and even if they aren't on board I should still be supportive of both my family as their son/brother and to Little Miss Chatterbox as her husband. It was getting late and I was leaving to come back the next morning, so later that night before leaving France I asked her brother for his sister's, Little Miss Chatterbox's, hand in marriage. He agreed and asked how long would I need to save up? I felt immediate pressure and I don't know why I came out with "6 months". He said OK and that Little Miss Chatterbox and I should work together and because after 6 months we have to decide whether we are going to get married or go our separate ways. I agreed (Why did I say 6 months? I wasn't even earning enough at that time!).

During the 6 months I was seriously struggling to save up and fell in OD many times: pay my rent, car insurance, Oyster card, food, keeping Little Miss Chatterbox happy by taking her out and buying her stuff (even though she says her demands aren't high, it's how much her stuff costs and whenever she got upset I have buy her stuff to keep her happy, even though she knows she doesn't need them - yeah, I know, BPD!). When she asked me what our budget will be for our wedding I just came out with £10k (Why did I say that? I didn't even research anything on my own nor with her as I was struggling to save up anyway!).

Sorry to digress for a moment, something took place in Aug 2013. As I continued pushing my family and begging them to please let go of any issues, grudges, etc they have, my father said OK he'll come to London and get to know Little Miss Chatterbox and we'll finally work things out once and for all. So he came and we all met up in coffee shop but the meeting went sour. Little Miss Chatterbox was a little bit hopeful that things might work out but she knew it wasn't going to work out at all. Unfortunately my father wasn't pleased with her behaviour and he and Little Miss Chatterbox exchanged unpleasant dialogue. Even though this is the case, my father didn't behave in his normal nice way like he does with everyone he meets and it clearly shows his intention was to push her away because all he could come out with was her flaws and not look past those. I wish this never happened and I wish my father looked into her character and personality more because Little Miss Chatterbox is genuinely a lovely person! Since this day I didn't speak to my father nor my family until mid-Feb 2014, like I ran away from home, but we'll get to that later.

OK, back on track - I was trying to see if I could do another job but couldn't find anything at the time so decided to take out a loan. In the process I stumbled across a drop-shipping business investment opportunity on the Internet and the returns were very good, to the point were I could quit my job in a year and have my own business. Unfortunately the loan I took I invested it into the drop-shipping business and it turned out to be fraud. I totally screwed up even more now. But wait, it gets better. Or should I say WORSE (you'll see)! I didn't tell Little Miss Chatterbox about me taking out a loan nor what I had done with it.

6 months was pretty much coming up to an end and I received a call from her brother as he wanted to know an update. I told him that Little Miss Chatterbox and I were going to visit her family for the 3rd time at the end of Jan 2014 to find a suitable venue and hopefully get our wedding done by March/April 2014 and finally be married. OK so I lost all the money I took out as a loan, had no 2nd job as a backup, had no previous savings, and Little Miss Chatterbox thought I had £10k saved up. I was only surviving on my salary from my job and I was in OD (AGAIN!) and spent my money on getting my birth certificate and passport signed etc for oversees marriage in France (complex process) and went to visit her family for 3rd time (FREAKIN' EMPTY HANDED, with my bank account in OD!) at the end of Jan 2014. Her family allowed me to stay over with them for the 2-3 nights instead of me staying in a hotel (which I still had enough money for), and throughout this whole time I was scared and anxious inside, my heart was racing, I couldn't sleep properly. I knew I messed up big, even though I never said a word to anybody because I knew everyone would be even more upset to the point it's probably unforgivable and nobody will ever talk to me again. How was I going to save this? How was I going to salvage whatever I had left? We found a wedding venue and Little Miss Chatterbox's mother paid the deposit for us in order to secure it for us, which I had to pay her back for. So Little Miss Chatterbox and her family all believe that we're getting married, I've got £10k for our wedding, etc and there's me who's messed up badly (but nobody knew... .yet).

Next day I returned from France, back in London and Little Miss Chatterbox was coming back to London a few days later. Within the few days before her return I had to quickly find a solution if I could borrow some more money from the lender I initially took out the loan with, or take out another loan from another lender, or pay-day loan or ask help from friends or ask them to get a loan for me. Nothing worked except a mere £2k loan which was only enough to cover for the costs of the wedding venue. No friends were there to help financially. I really feel I let everyone in my life down and brought nothing but shame upon myself. I knew I was on the brink of having a complete meltdown and had not even one person to support me, nobody to talk to. Even if Little Miss Chatterbox knew, she would fall apart as she's extremely fragile (I was still ignorant about her BPD even at this time and never researched on it! Shame on me!) so I couldn't even tell her what I've done. Post-Valentines Day 2014, Monday evening after my office job, I went over to visit her in tears and lied to her and told her that I lost the £10k, that I was robbed on my way to the bank on Saturday morning. She totally fell apart and broke down into tears, she called up her mother and and explained what happened (the story I told Little Miss Chatterbox). Her brother called me a few moments later and said don't worry it's only money, money comes and goes and said it's OK and not to worry as we'll work out another solution to get us married. The truth is, I was crying because I was totally ashamed of myself and let everyone down and messed up with the money big time and we weren't getting married and now I'm lying even more and it's going to hurt Little Miss Chatterbox and her family even more. I only lied just to buy some more time that maybe if I told them that I got robbed I'd use the time to just save up with my current job as I was already struggling to find 2nd and 3rd jobs to help quickly save up for our wedding that was set for April 2014. Little Miss Chatterbox insisted I go to the police and tell them that I had been robbed of £10k and they might help recover the money. At that point I was like crap what do I do now? Do I have to go to the police and tell them the same story? I was really scared even more now because all this could me mean I end up going to jail for lying. Turned out I never went to jail and the police and called up a couple of times to check up on my wellbeing. I think they knew I was lying but for some reason never arrested me as Little Miss Chatterbox got a call from them and she says apparently she saved me but she won't tell me how she did it. During that same week I planned to just leave London for the weekend and go back to my family in Birmingham and reconcile with them. I also left the flat I was renting and decided that I will live in my car as it will help save up for our wedding quicker by not having to pay for rent, and go to a 24-hour gym to shower and get ready for work. Little Miss Chatterbox wasn't feeling well at all and her BPD got worse, she was having panic attacks, anxiety, etc and didn't want me to go back to Birmingham yet because of what she's just had to go through that week so I told her that I really have to go and fix things between my family and put things right for us so she left to back home to France for a few weeks when I returned after that weekend. She said: "I wasn't there for her when she needed me when she wasn't feeling alright and I put my family first, who are the people who hate her and don't love me and respect me enough to support me to get married with her, etc."

I took out an interest-free loan for £1.5k which is the most my job at the time could offer me but realistically I wasn't going to save up anywhere near £10k within a couple of months so in the end the wedding was off. She called me on one of the evenings after I finished work, while she was still in France and wanted me to admit that I lied to her and to come clean and be completely honest with her, because the police told her I lied about me being robbed. I came clean and she said all the most horrible things unimaginable 1000-fold to me and at the same time said that I need to get a 2nd, or even a 3rd job to help save up quickly and so everything I can to put things between us and her family, as well as to help save her honour. I agreed, sincerely apologised and said that I'll do whatever it takes to win her heart and her family's hearts! I was relieved to have come clean and start fresh but I still felt so horrible inside because of so much time, money, energy etc was wasted by me. She's right when she said that nobody told me to take out a loan, nobody told me to invest money into any business whether it's legit or not, etc. She said that if I was open and honest, instead of keeping quiet or not saying anything, since the beginning and just came clean we would not be in any problem, not even financially, and that she would take care of my bank account. Unfortunately, even today none of family members speak to me at all now even though I have apologised to them. They all want Little Miss Chatterbox to leave me and not talk to me at all and that we both just go our separate ways. WHAT IS STILL HOLDING US TOGETHER? BPD? GOD?

I finally secured a 2nd job in late March 2014 and started working pretty every evening as a Pizza Hut delivery driver, and I got a weekend job during the daytime as my 3rd job in early May 2014. So I was working pretty much everyday and evening with roughly 5 hours sleep each night. Even though we both agreed to still work on our relationship from the beginning and to save up for our marriage as quickly as possible it still hasn't even happened, and you'll know why as I continue. She came back from France in April 2014 and said that I need to buy her stuff for the summer, so I agreed as I believed it would make cheer her up and we'll start afresh and I'll correct wherever I went wrong.

She's always told me to just be nice to her, even if I'm not perfect but just don't argue with her, don't put her down, don't throw anything back in her face, don't lie to her, always be loyal to her, always be her best friend (I just really hate when she has moments where she puts me in the "friendship zone" because it just makes everything feel so weird and awkward but she seems to be all OK and normal and I'm thinking in my head "What is wrong with you, woman?" because she says every relationship starts off as friends so we have to start from allllll the way back from the beginning and everytime I do something dumb or stupid according to her, we have to restart our relationship allllll over again and gets really annoying and upsetting for me, and I try to exapin to her to stay focus on getting married but then she comes out with she doesn't want to feel pressurised, etc and justifies herself.

Basically, we tried to work on us since I messed up the whole wedding thing/money issue back in early 2014. In early 2015, she started doing things behind my back like talking to other guys on Facebook, like randomly adding them - she said it's because I'm not fun, I'm boring, I have no sense of humour, there's no sparkle between us, we don't go out anymore, etc. I'm like helloo I'm working all the time doing the best I can to help save up for our wedding and have a place of our own, etc but whenever we end up arguing of stupid little things she comes out with stuff like oh, I'm upset you have to buy me a dress now, or shoes, or whatever, and does get really frustrating.

She met a guy for 10 minutes last Easter and he never contacted her again because she believes the reason why he never contacted her again is because she's fat and ugly and then started taking it out all on me saying that I lied to her that she looks beautiful when in reality she's ugly and nobody approaches her on the street to ask her for her number or tries to chat her up, etc. She never takes me seriously even before meeting that guy that she's attractive and says that I only think she's attractive because I'm in love with her and when she looks at herself in the mirror she sees a monster.

She started talking to another guy shortly after in May 2015 and I didn't know about it until Sep/Oct 2015. She told me they used to message each other everyday and then it died down in the summer time to just a few times to just the odd message. She met him on 3 separate occassions: 1st time she asked him to come and meet up with her at her place but never invited him inside her flat, so they just hung outside around the stairs. 2nd time it was the day after her birthday in Oct he took her out to cinema to watch a movie, he tried to hug her and put his arm around her but she dismissed his every attempt because she says she didn't want him to see her scars and tries flirting with her but the guy 5-6 years younger than her and she said she only wants to get married and doesn't want to waste time in a bf-gf relationship. 3rd time they went for a drive, the day before she invited me over as it was my birthday the same weekend in late Nov 2015. On the 2nd time they met, Little Miss Chatterbox told me that before the guy left he asked for a kiss on the cheek. The story she told me first was she's not had a kiss in a long time and the last time she ever kissed any guy was me. A few days later she tells me that the guy turned his face so that he could kiss her lips and it was a quick peck (I don't know, I wasn't there). And the 3rd time she met him they kissed again but she says that she pulled away after a few seconds because she didn't feel right and again repeated that she only wants to be married and not be in a bf-gf relationship. On the weekend of my birthday, she went to France to spend time with one of her best friends who is like a sister to her and also has BPD, and when she came back to London the guy she met 3 times "broke up" with her via text (technically they weren't even in a proper relationship, please correct me if I'm wrong?). She believes he "broke up" with her because when I went to pick her up from the station, apparently she had told him to come pick her up first before asking me and she believes that he was there and he must've saw her with me, and she already told him about me as me being just friends with Little Miss Chatterbox. This hurts me so badly that she's demoted me to "friendship zone" or whatever you call it, and it hurts me so badly that she's been doing all this behind my back throughout 2015 even kissing the 2nd guy she met, and hurts me so badly that she lied about me the last guy she kissed when it wasn't even true, it hurts me so badly that she can see I'm working 3 jobs (now it's 2 - the 2nd job makes up for the previous 2nd and 3rd jobs) in order to save up for our wedding and help her get out of all the problems shes had to face throughout her life so far. Is this how bad BPD gets? I've always been loyal, never cheated on her! What have done and where have I gone wrong? Please someone, please tell me! I asked her several times in 2015 who am I to you, and she never ever calls me her boyfriend nor fiance, she just calls me her gingerbreadman (her pet name for me) or just by my name. And when I ask her why am I here, she always avoids and never gives me a simple straight answer. This hurts me even more! I'm so exhausted, as much as I know she is, I'm so hurt and heartbroken, as much as I know she is, I just want everything to be right between us, even if it isn't like how it used to be before I messed up our wedding thing/financial situation but better than that.

She doesn't want to ever work/have a job because she says she's afraid of people and how they might treat her, especially because of her BPD, based on all the experiences she's had in the past even in employment, such as abuse, taken advantage of, etc.

I REALLY NEED TO WIN HER TRUST BACK! I've been completely honest with her since that day I came clean but she says that she still doesn't trust me because I lied to her in the past, even if I try telling her something she comes out with if you really love me you will prove it through your actions. I've given her some examples to help make her realise but she dismisses them all (is she correct?), such as I've moved to London for her/us as number 1 priority and not because of my career as I can technically develop my career even back home in Birmingham or anywhere else in the world), I help take her to places in my car (as it's safer plus she has a bad back and bad foot), I take her shopping, I buy her clothes, shoes, make-up etc, groceries, I bought her a Samsung tablet, Mac Book laptop, take her out to restaurants and buy her gifts (not often as I'm focused on having enough saved up for our marriage, not just wedding but enough to keep us going comfortably after our big day), but then she counter-attacks some of my points buy coming out with stuff like "But other boyfriends of my friends get Louis Vuitton bags, Michael Korrs shoes, etc" (even though she's simple and humble and not so big on designer labels herself - I've seen her wardrobe!), so starts comparing me to other guys which isn't nice. And when we argue, she forces me to listen her and she goes on for AAAAAAAAGES/HOURS and says it's only because I'm stupid, I don't think properly, it's like she has to mother me and I'm a kid, I need to me a man, it's all about me and not her and I get really upset by all that she says. She never ever apologises either, and when I apologise she doesn't believe it's genuine because I'm going make the same mistake again. Sometimes it feels like she's doing it on purpose to make me make a mistake of upsetting her just so she can throw a tantrum and the whole day is ruined to the point where she doesn't want to do anything with me for the rest of the day and just be at home in isolation, crying, being miserable, binge eating on pizza (our favourite food!), etc.

Whenever I try to do the right thing of taking care of her wellbeing, etc it always seems to backfire and I'm always painted black, I'm always the wrong one, I'm always the bad guy, I'm always blamed and she has to suffer the consequences (for example we argue, we might raise our voices and her neighbour might inform the landlord at which point he will tell her to leave and she'll end up homeless, so the blame comes on me to not upset her in the first place, etc). Uuuuuuhgh, this can get very frustrating at a lot of times, and I feel like giving up to the point where I want to leave and be alone and then she stops me and pulls me back in to stay and gives me a long lecture how I'm making a mistake and it's my fault and if I ever leave then don't ever come back, blah blah blah. And she says we won't be able to get married because I have to change and I shouldn't give her attitude and be mean to her, etc.

In summer 2014 I finally took the time to research on BPD - FINALLY! And since then, even today I'm researching up on it. Little Miss Chatterbox has been through therapy and learnt about Mentalisation to help her cope with BPD but she still feels and admits she's not good at it. I recently stumbled across DBT, which apparently is a cure for BPD - please correct me if I'm wrong? But Little Miss Chatterbox's disagrees and says there is no cure at all. She told since the beginning of our relationship that her family looked into BPD, but recently it turns out none of them have any idea what it is nor just how bad she has it, nor does anyone of them have any knowledge of what it is. It's just one of her 2 sisters has looked into it and points out the different symptoms at her but this aggravates Little Miss Chatterbox's BPD and cause her to become more upset by constantly being reminded. And when she's upset she binge eats, like after we've had an argument and it feel like everytime I we hang out we always end up arguing and I really want it to stop! I want to be the reason for her smile! I want to be her rock! I want to be her hero! I want to win her trust again!

Please tell me where I can fix my problems with Little Miss Chatterbox. How can I win her heart again?

My sincerest apologies if this is all a little all over the place, I really hope it's all making sense.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Skip]

7,000 words, wow. And you refer to her a Ms Chatterbox.  

To help the readers, can you give us 2 paragraphs explaining the current state of the relationship and her perceived "grievances". Is it just the "lie"?

[JapTuner2016]

7,000 words, wow. And you refer to her a Ms Chatterbox.  

To help the readers, can you give us 2 paragraphs explaining the current state of the relationship and her perceived "grievances". Is it just the "lie"?

Yeah, sorry it's a very loong story, ! "Little Miss Chatterbox" not in a bad way of course, it's how she describes herself as she is generally a very talkative person, she always has something to talk about and genuinely is a very sweet, caring, adorable, gentle person. It is quite surprising for me even knowing her after 3.5+ years that such a lovely girl can have BPD and be either extremely nice or extremely mean.

With regards to the latest news, let's first quickly rewind back to last month and I'll bring you up to date as of present, Jan 13th 2016 approx 5.30pm GMT, !

So after Little Miss Chatterbox returned from France in early December, when she went in late November to visit her best friend that also has BPD, she messaged that 2nd guy she met off Facebook to come and pick her up from the station when she arrives on that evening (I wasn't aware of this at first until after I picked her up). She got no response so she messaged me (I've always picked her up from the station so this is the first time ever she's asked someone else). So I came, picked her up and took her home. Again, I have no no idea what's going on behind my back with regards to Little Miss Chatterbox and the 2nd guy off Facebook. Anyways, few days after her return I visited her and said that I don't like what's been going on throughout 2015 like behind my back and all, and I really want you to stay focused and we work together on our relationship and finally get married like we're supposed to. She listened and came up with some weird "deal" (she does this at times, "Let's make a deal, blah blah blah" and I said OK and we both agreed. I then texted her couple of days later to show her that I am sticking to her deal/fulfilling what she requested (nothing bad) and I said that I'm very serious about us because it isn't right that it's been 3-3.5 years that have passed and we haven't yet still got married and we should really work together and that I really want things to be right between us. I got no response, however the next day she texted back saying that she's been thinking a lot and that she wants us top this relationship and doesn't want to part of this mess, and that she's going back to France forever (she already told me this few days before, but before I even met her she's told me that she always ends up coming back to London so I don't know if this is forever as in FOREVER or like how she used to come back before either after a few weeks or months), and that she's happy single, and that she just wants to be happy and leave London happy like how she came to London happy back in 2006. I never responded to her text. On Friday of that week, I started my night shift at McDonalds around 9.30pm, shortly after which she started calling me and texting me quite a few times, but I didn't look at my mobile phone until midnight. Unfortunately I can't call her back because she's blocked me from calling her at all (when we argue, she does the silent treatment, "splitting", and when I call her she doesn't respond so I keep calling her like 20-odd times, so now she's decided to block me from ever calling her again, she's even blocked me on Whatsapp. I really don't like this sort of behaviour and find it very rude and disrespectful, so I'm forced to put up with it unfortunately and she'll only unblock me when we're married - I wonder when that will be!) so I texted her call me back to see if she was OK because her texts were saying it's an emergency. She was crying over the phone and said that she needs me but she can't give me what I want, like she doesn't want me to come to her as a bf/fiance, so I said to her to listen I'll come as a friend and I know that you need me and I'll come immediately and take care of you (she sounded very upset and distressed. So I left McDonalds early, caught the night bus to her place, and basically what happened was the 2nd guy she met off Facebook "dumped" her, and she said he was nice and kind and everything (she put him on a pedestal it sounds like - after 3 meetings). I kept her company and as it was quite late I said that she should try to sleep and get some rest and I'll come over the next day after McDonalds again, but she said no and wanted me to stay and keep her company over night so stayed over - nothing sexual at all. I stayed over a few nights to keep her company, but everytime I wanted to eave and didn't feel very comfortable at all as she had been doing things behind my back throughout the year, after what she's done she doesn't realise nor feel how she's made the situation between us so awkward and I feel very unhappy and very hurt and betrayed. Am I just some guy on the side? Why are you keeping me in your life if you're running after guys? You know full well I'm working day and night saving up for our marriage and you do this? Is this how bad BPD gets? What have I done? Somebody, please tell me! What can/should I do? I want to win her heart but how can I?

So her BPD spiked after she got "dumped" but the 2nd guy off Facebook and she believes that the reason why that happened is because he must have seen us both when I picked her up from the station few days before (even though the guy never told her that). (Blaming me again? I get blamed for EVERYTHING!). She says if I wasn't in her life maybe she will find some happiness and love and maybe someone will marry her. (In my head I'm thinking do you know what you're saying? Do you know who you're talking to? Hello! You and I agreed that we'll work together on our relationship and get married! I'm working so hard, doing the best I can to save up for us! Girl, you need to stop running after temporary happiness and work on long-term which is real and that is us!) Anyway, despite all the heartache I was experiencing at the same time as Little Miss Chatterbox, I put my feelings aside and tried to comfort her and keep her company and try to be as nice as I can, but it wasn't enough. Her BPD had seriously spiked tremendously and on Monday 21st Dec she left to go back home to France and be with her family.

When went home to France, it turned out that actually nobody in her family even know what BPD is (they've just heard of it but very little to no knowledge of it) nor were they as supportive as they should be. One of her sisters looked it up and told her the symptoms, but this only made it worse for Little Miss Chatterbox as she didn't want to be constantly reminded. On top of that, her family was getting pi55ed off at her so she had to fake it and pretend to be happy.

When she was returning to London last Tuesday night, she sent me a text that afternoon while I was at work in the office saying to pick her up from the pizza restaurant where we went on our first date, which is near the station. I replied to her text and asked why can't I just pick you up from the station like I always do? but got no response. Anyway, I waited there in my care but she came over 30 mins later after her arrival time. I asked her why did she take so long and why did she want me to pick her up from the pizza restaurant and she said that want to the bathroom to self-harm. We drove back to her place and when she got changed into her pyjamas I saw the scratches on her scars that she made. She said the blade wasn't sharp enough like the ones she would've normally used. Afterwards she said that the "plan" now is for me to pay for her personal training sessions in the gym so that she loses weight and has a sexy body so that she can show the 1st and 2nd guys off Facebook what they missed out on and then she and I get married. I was like, "Is this some sort of revenge plan?" and she said that she wouldn't call it that. Sounds confusing if you don't call it revenge. I said OK and let her continue to talk. I stayed over to keep he company as I thought she would appreciate it an see that I care. i also mentioned to her that I took the evening off from McDonalds the next day (last Wednesday) and Sunday for us so that we could sit down and work together on getting her better and working on her symptoms and she was cool with it. Then I suggested that we should go to sleep as it was after 3am and she said OK. After a couple of minutes in bed she started to really sexually and horny and started kissing me seducing me. As much as I like it, I knew it was her BPD and I never responded to her advances even though I got excited. So after a few minutes of kissing and dry humping me etc she asked ":)on't you want to kiss?" and I said "No, this isn't right," so she got off me and cried and then played on her mobile phone (Facebook, Candy Crush, or whatever) while I eventually fell asleep.

The next day, Wednesday, I visited her and she brought the topic up again about the 2nd guy off Facebook and about he "revenge" plan. I listened, and then I discussed with her if the "revenge" plan is only part of what her BPD is causing her to react and she said no, that we stick to the plan and get married. In my mind I doubt it wasn't BPD. She also said that she's planning on her "coming out", as she's read about other people who've come out with their BPD and they get the support from people who stay whereas other will leave. She also mentioned that on Sunday she was going to have one of her BPD friends from one of the therapy sessions that she recently met come visit her. At that point I spoke and asked her if she remember that I got a free day on Sunday for us (Little Miss Chatterbox and I) and she said no and wanted to know the plan, so I said that after I finish my shift from McDonalds I'll come and stay over and we'll wake up at whatever time you like, we'll go and get a coffee, go for a walk, work on your symptoms and share the DBT therapy I found on the Internet and YouTube, we'll go for a drive, I'll takes us to a restaurant and we can watch movies on Netflix. She was like OK but you're not staying over. I was like OK but why not as you let me stay over just last night. She said, "Err, no, you let yourself stay over, I never invited you." I was a little upset at the way she started to me like I stayed for her to keep her company and because I know she has anxiety and stress and her BPD has been overwhelming the last 3-4 weeks for her. She said "As far I'm aware you're not my husband and you need to go and sleep in your car or wherever you want." (WOW! Are you serious?) I got upset but remained quiet because I knew if I said something it might trigger an argument, and after a couple of minutes I would've changed the topic. About 30 seconds later she said "Why do you look upset? What's the problem?" I said that it's nothing and I'm thinking but she continued to get it out of me so I told her that I was upset that she wouldn't let me stay over on Saturday night but it's fine and we can still do the rest of stuff I planned, and then she was like we're not to any restaurant. I was shocked inside. (Aren't we supposed to be working on our relationship and eventually get married like we're supposed to? What's going on?) She had tidied her place that day while I was at work and needed to go to the supermarket to get some cleaning products for her bathroom and I agreed to take her. unfortunately the argument didn't stop as she continued to go on and on and on and on about me sleeping over at her's, even though I dropped it and didn't want any further discussion about it. Then she asked me to leave. I said but we're supposed to be going to the supermarket to get your stuff for the bathroom, she said that it's OK she'll buy them tomorrow. After about 4 or 5 attempt of trying to pacify the situation, she "felt" a "negative vibe" in the atmosphere but I was OK, I just wanted to the argument to end and we carry on as normal like normal people, I don't want to responsible for adding anymore fuel to the fire. So I left so I gave her space. About 15-20 minutes later I get a call from her saying that I shouldn't have left. She said "You know I'm fragile and my BPD is really bad right now that I want to commit suicide after all that's been happening that last 3-4 weeks, I will overdose or stab myself and die tonight!" I was like, "But you wanted me to leave even though I said 4 or 5 times to let's stop arguing and we'll go to the supermarket for you, but you said no so I left and gave you your space," and she was like, "No, you should've stayed! You're always mean to me! You see, you don't care, you just want me to die!". The argument continued (WOW! Why don't you just leave it and talk something else now, why are you so obsessed about arguing about me wanted to stay over, I'm over it and not making any fuss about it!) and she went on and on and on. She walked outside to catch a bus to the supermarket, even though she knew she walked right past me, while still arguing with me over the phone. I asked her "Why are you catching the bus when I'm right here to take you?" she said, "I'm not a dog! The guy goes after the girl! I'm not lowering myself!" I was like huh? (Nobody said you're a dog, nor does it make you a dog to come in my car and I can take you to the supermarket - you'll save money on your Oyster card so you don't lose credit, and it's safer and warmer in my car) She got off the bus and started walking back, but instead of coming to my car she was walking back home. Again, repeating the same words, "I'm not a dog! The guy who loves his girl goes after her! you see, you don't love! I'm going to go home and kill myself now! You see, you don't care, you're going to let me die, you're taking a life, you killed me!". (How can I drive with my mobile phone in my hand as it's not safe and you haven't even allowed me to quickly put my hands-free kit on because you're forcing me to listen to you?). So I hung up and raced down the road catch her, I parked up and rang her bell as she got back to her place a few seconds before I could. She came down and continued arguing, "Oh, so now you want to make a mess on my street? You're going to get me kicked out of my place and I'm going to homeless now because of you!" This was all really confusing, overwhelming for me to the point where I wanted to say shut up and calm down but I didn't, all I could do was beg her to please calm down and w'll talk in my care and quickly go the supermarket before it closes as we only had 20 minutes before it closed. We got in my car and drove there.

[JapTuner2016]

She continued arguing. (WOW! This is really starting to wind me up now!) As we were driving to the supermarket I tried to explain to her, "I understand that you're upset, don't worry as this is all BPD and it isn't your fault, we can work on these" and she responded, "You're not a doctor! There's no cure for BPD! Stop reminding me!" at that point I was like, "Sorry, I'm reminded you on purpose so that you thought digress from suicidal to anger and then you'll calm down" (I read this somewhere on the Internet but I see this is very wrong as it spiked even more - bad idea, I shouldn't have said this). We parked up in the car park and she started crying even more and was running outside. She was like "I'm going kill myself!" and I got really scared and worried that she was going to throw herself in front of a car or truck, so I quickly grab ahold of her arm before she could leave but the door was open. I tried pulling hard hoping she will get tired but I'm the one who got tired and lost my grip. I ran out of my car and ran after Little Miss Chatterbox. I was telling the few people around to help she was going to commit suicide but Little Miss Chatterbox went quiet and continued crying are running away out of the car park on to the main road. At this point I was like I'm calling the police because it's illegal to commit suicide and I did. I thought she was going throw herself in front of the bus at this point as we were on the road for quite a few seconds. The police arrive after 5 minutes and spoke to my and tried talking to her. I explained to them what had happened. An ambulance later on came and took Little Miss Chatterbox to A&E near her place. I wanted to go follow and be there by her side and take her home after they released her from hospital but the police advised to give her space tonight and contact her tomorrow morning (last Thursday morning) and check up on her then.

So I texted her on the next (Thursday) morning but got no response so gave her space. As Sunday was my day off, I texted her again in the afternoon around 4pm and asked her to let me know when she's free and I'll come over. She called me around 8pm saying to come over otherwise I'm going to be in trouble with the police. It didn't make sense so I went over to see her, I arrived at her place but she said I'm not allowed inside and so we sat in my car and she explained that calling the police on Wednesday night was a bad idea, as at the hospital they checked her arm (when I tried to pull her back in the car/stop her from committing suicide as that is what she's been telling em all that evening) and found bruises. She said the police at the hospital (who were different from the ones that spoke to us both when the ambulance arrived) said that it's domestic violence and I can be put into jail for assault. Little Miss Chatterbox told the psychiatrist at the hospital that night that she wanted to leave the car to get some fresh air as I had spiked her BPD when we were arguing. (Hang on! You told me you were going to kill yourself and commit suicide! What the heck?) So the psychiatrist thinks I'm crazy and the police said that Little Miss Chatterbox can come to the police station anytime and tell them who assaulted her on Wednesday night (she hasn't told them that it's me at all... .yet).

Also on Sunday evening, after her long lecture about this, she started threatening me to give her money to pay for her personal training at the gym otherwise she will go to the police and tell them I harmed her. I told her that I'm not going to be threatened and that she can go and tell them that it's me if she wishes as they've only heard her side of the story but there's always 2 sides to every story. Then she said that we'll never get married because of my attitude and that I need to change and stop being stupid.

Since Sunday evening, we haven't contacted each other yet.

This is terrible and very confusing to me! UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH! Somebody please help me and guide me!

So sorry for going on so much, I really need support here to fix my relationship with Little Miss Chatterbox.

[Skip]

can you give us 2 paragraphs explaining the current state of the relationship and her perceived "grievances". Is it just the "lie"?

Can you answer the above - 200 words or less.  Let's get the members engaged.

[JapTuner2016]

can you give us 2 paragraphs explaining the current state of the relationship and her perceived "grievances". Is it just the "lie"?

Can you answer the above - 200 words or less.  Let's get the members engaged.

Whoops! My apologies, I guess I got slightly carried away with the long story from beginning up to present.

OK, so long story short: the current state is that my family isn't interested in knowing her, nro do my parents want to give their blessings when we get married, and her family still isn't talking to me at all since I screwed up the whole wedding/financial thing back in early 2014 and want her and I to go our separate ways, Little Miss Chatterbox and I keep saying that we need to work on our relationship however she insists that I have to win her heart and get that sparkle back as I'm the one who screwed everything up with regards to the wedding and the lying, and that I have to be nice to her and not argue and not give her attitude and I need to change and not be stupid and be a man and prove to her through actions that I do love her. When we argue (which is pretty much every time we see each other), we both get wound up, I always get the blame and she says that she always has to suffer the consequences, she says that she puts on weight because of me and how heartbroken and depressed she is (she has a coffee in the morning, smoothie or sandwich for lunch and either KFC, pizza, junk food or she might cook something better/healthier for herself, which equals to roughly 1000 calories in a day - that's less than the average for a woman! She was around size 14-16 when we first met but now size 16, she's 5'9" and approx 190lbs), whenever she says I have to buy her stuff (even when she's in her normal state) and I refuse (either due to financial reasons, such as not enough in my account before OD, or focus on saving up for our marriage) she then threatens me that she'll have to whore herself (like give bjs, handjobs, etc) so that she has the money to buy what she wants, like she did on Sunday evening.

And recently, I guess you can see what happened in the last few days after she returned from France last Tuesday evening in my previous message to this, so from Sunday night up to today we still haven't contacted each other. Is she doing the "splitting" thing again or what? From my side I just don't want to contact her after what's happened since last year after all stuff happening behind my back and lack of focus on us working on our relationship and marriage. She also said on Sunday evening that I need to work on our present situation first then we can talk about marriage. I thought that it takes both people to make a relationship work, not just one person. I appreciate that I've screwed up the wedding/financial thing back in 2014 and I lied about my family and the money, but she's become extremely tough on me and I'm so alone in this with no support from anyone - I can't even tell my family nor friends that she has BPD.

So yeah, I really need some help urgently in winning my Little Miss Chatterbox's heart again - it's soo freakin' hard with her BPD! Talk about tough love... .uuuuuuugh! Please help me, pleeeeeeeeeease!

[JapTuner2016]

I've still not heard from her as of yet nor do I know what I should text her. I want to text her knowing that she will respond to me, not where she just reads it and that's it never replies to me ("splitting".

Please can somebody help me, PLEEEEEEEEEEASE! What should I do?

[mitti]

Hi JapYuner2016,  

First off, I want to apologize for not having read your whole story. I am working against a deadline today and have very little time. But I still wanted to write.

I did see that she had said that BPD cannot be cured. That simply is not true, and if you get a T that claims this to be the case, change T. Go with one that has more recent and updated research and education. There is so much stigma around BPD and it doesn't make it any easier for anybody. And when you both start believing it can change it will get easier.

The other thing I wanted to tell you is to validate her feelings and your own feelings. What I used to do when I was trying to understand the skill of validation, and I really really sucked at it (I am still learning by the way) was to do role swapping. I would try to put myself in his shoes, and then read what I had written as though written to me. More times than not it made me change and rewrite the whole thing. It became less about trying to convince him and more about just understanding where he came from, how he felt and most of all that he really felt that way. Not to be mean to me on purpose, but because it was (is) his reality.

And another miracle that I learnt, was that when I started accepting him the way he was, and myself for wanting to be with him, people around me started to accept it as well.

So take a deep breath and realise that what you want is totally fine and you don't need to justify yourself to anybody.

[flourdust]

Well, I had free time over lunch, so I tried to read the whole thing.  

While she has BPD and an unhealthy obsession with getting you to spend lots of money on her, it appears that you could really use some time to work on your own issues. This is your first and only relationship, so you don't seem to have anything to compare it against. Your statements also show a lot of idealization - of her, of marriage, of your role as the white knight and provider. You're also heavily enmeshed with peripheral players in this relationship -- most of your posts are about your relationships with your family, her family, and even the other guys she is dating or flirting with.

While you've described a number of BPD traits -- the arguments, the suicide threats and self-harm, the push/pull, the fear of abandonment, the rages -- you've also described extreme co-dependent behaviors on your part. You seem desperate to try to please not only her but her family, your family, and an idealized vision of who you should be. This has entailed you making a lot of compromises and poor choices, many around money.

I strongly recommend you think of this problem differently. Rather than trying to win her over or fix her somehow, how could you work on fixing yourself? How can you make rules to prevent yourself from making foolish (and potentially illegal) financial decisions and promises? How can you set boundaries so that your relationships with others (including your family) are respectful but not dominated by seeking their approval? How can you get a more realistic understanding of what a healthy, normal dating relationship feels like (with other people -- not with her)?

There's an L6 Board: Personal Inventory and Self-Awareness that might be helpful for you. (I recommend the Suggested Reading post near the top of that board.) I believe you need to have ten posts to gain access to that board. Good luck!

P.S. Those 10 posts can be shorter ... .much shorter ... .and still count. 

[tryingsome]

I read most of your posts and what I gather she does not have BPD.

Honestly, I think she has something worse, maybe a full blown sociopath and using BPD as the lesser of two evils.

I am not a therapist though. But all I read is use-use-use, I don't really catch a drift of her needing you.

But take what I say with a grain of salt.

One thing sick people stay with sick people.

Healthy people can stay with sick people provided they know how to remain healthy. That's the crux though.

Right now I see sick people with sick people.

If she is threatening physical abuse, you really need to protect yourself.

You need to have some liability or else your life will just be ruined.

Beyond that, well you are just not attractive to her.

You need to start working on yourself.

You really need to step back.

If you want this to work, you need to step back and work on yourself.

Sorry to say, you have zero current value to her at your current state.

You let her kiss (or more) other guys and you are NOT okay with it.

If you were okay with it (radical acceptance) that is one thing.

But you are not. Work on yourself.

[Skip]

There are some really unhealthy dynamics on both side of the relationship. The recommendation to work to deal with your side of it is really important.  That may or may not help you "win her back". If you get healthy, she may respect and follow you. If however, her attraction to you is based on you being unhealthy, you are in a lose-lose situation.

So, that said, to answer your question, "how do you win her back?"... .stop chasing your tail. Step back and look at the brokenness in the relationship (parents) and make changes in yourself and those relationships that mend these brokenness. Nothing good is going to happen if the parents on both sides are tearing things down. In doing this, you will get feedback on what you need to with yourself and  that will be a good starting point to becoming more attractive to her. With respect to your relationship with her, work with the members to list all of her concerns and list ways in which you can start the process of "being a stronger, healthier guy". In listing her concerns, you can start the process of putting some in the "I gotta get my act together" category and others in "I'm not going to do this, its not healthy" category.

It's going to take some work.

[JapTuner2016]

Hey guys, I read all your messages and I want to thank you very much for each of your kind and honest advice.

Also, I agree I need to work on myself as along this road it hasn't been easy at all and feel like I lost myself, as well as family and friends, to some extent and it has been tremendously exhausting I must admit, like being totally alone and isolated in this.

This is my first relationship unfortunately/fortunately and have no idea what a normal relationship is like nor feels like.

If there is anyone else who has anything they'd like to add/share, or anyone who hasn't given any advise and is reading through this thread, please, please, please be generous enough to lend me your support too as I really need to work on getting this right, not just for myself but also for Little Miss Chatterbox.

We still haven't contacted each other as of yet. My guess is she'll contact me by Sunday but I could be wrong, we'll see. I wonder what she's up to? I wonder what's going through in her mind? I wonder if she's thinking about me? Probably angry I guess about what happened last week, etc. In the meantime, if there are any steps that I should take or suggestions you can give on how to make the right moves to win her back (apart from learning validation skills), what I should text her, etc please let me know as I am taking all this in very seriously and honestly.

Thanks you all once again for your support, I humbly appreciate it!

[tryingsome]

lend me your support too as I really need to work on getting this right, not just for myself but also for Little Miss Chatterbox.

I wonder what she's up to? I wonder what's going through in her mind? I wonder if she's thinking about me?

I left the two red flags above. You need to address these items.

First, you do need to get this right for yourself.

Little Miss Chatterbox should not be a concern right now... .getting it right with her right now should not be a concern.

She should be the furthest from your mind.

If you were a little more healthy, I might say differently.

On the second point. Don't ask these questions. It's not your concern.

If you really want to know what she is thinking... .She is probably thinking about those other Facebook guys. Or about some guy you don't know about.

If you make yourself attractive and independent, she might actually think about you. She is not.

Work on yourself and don't worry what is going through her mind.

It's not your mind anyways.

There are quite a few lessons on this site which are of an immense help.

It depends really where are in the process.


I have been in two real relationships.

The first was quite normal and was good.

A good relationship is when the other person has your best interest at heart.

This can be manifested in various ways.

A bad relationship is when the other person has only their own interest at heart.

She falls into this category.

Make sure this isn't the case with you.

This can be manifested in various ways (if she has to feel good in order for you to fell good is an example).

Once you can start doing your own thing without thinking about her then you will start to be on the path of recovery.

My two cents: you shouldn't be talking to her now (unless you have kids or some other obligation involved) and you should check into therapy.

[EaglesJuju]

Hi JapTuner2016,

You have come to the right place for help. The Saving board is designed to help you prevent a break up. It is like preemptively taking the steps to repair your relationship and diverting it from a break up. It is different from the Undecided board, where members are unsure of what path to take. It is completely different from the Detaching board, where the focus is on letting go of the relationship. 

We can give you the best advice and tools, which can help you and your relationship. 

Also, I agree I need to work on myself as along this road it hasn't been easy at all and feel like I lost myself, as well as family and friends, to some extent and it has been tremendously exhausting I must admit, like being totally alone and isolated in this.

I can imagine it has been really hard from you. It is understandable to feel exhausted, alone, and isolated when you are coping with behavior that is so erratic and confusing.  When you are feeling mentally exhausted, it is really hard to take the steps to work on yourself. Then the feeling of being isolated and alone can make you feel almost more exhausted and lost.

I felt lost and alone before, especially feeling isolated from my family and friends. They  did not understand my relationship and were not really supportive when I was feeling that way. I ended up feeling more isolated and lost. I felt down and out until I discovered this site. It made me feel like someone understood what I was going through and how I was feeling.  The support  I received helped me so much. You are not alone and we are here to support you.   

This is my first relationship unfortunately/fortunately and have no idea what a normal relationship is like nor feels like.

How really could you know what it was like if you never experienced it before? Normal is a subjective word. I find describing a relationship as healthy is a better term. As mentioned before, there are a lot of unhealthy behaviors going on in your relationship. Recognizing and understanding that is one of the first steps to take. If you do not know what is healthy, you really cannot start working on yourself and the relationship.

This article gives a great description of what a healthy relationship looks and feels like. Take sometime to read and see if what behaviors apply to you and Little Miss Chatterbox.

The Characteristics of Healthy Relationships

If there is anyone else who has anything they'd like to add/share, or anyone who hasn't given any advise and is reading through this thread, please, please, please be generous enough to lend me your support too as I really need to work on getting this right, not just for myself but also for Little Miss Chatterbox.

The best way to repair your relationship is to focus on yourself first. The best ways of doing so are setting boundaries, rebuilding yourself, and practicing self-care. In a relationship with a BPD sufferer, the non-BPD partner needs to be the one who is in a good place mentally. You cannot change Little Miss Chatterbox's behavior or thoughts. You can only change yours.

Learning about BPD and the accompanying behaviors is really important. It helps you understand why Little Miss Chatterbox is behaving and certain way. From learning the behavior, you can learn not to exacerbate situations and how to diffuse conflict.  Have you had a chance to read about BPD behaviors? 

We still haven't contacted each other as of yet. My guess is she'll contact me by Sunday but I could be wrong, we'll see. I wonder what she's up to? I wonder what's going through in her mind? I wonder if she's thinking about me? Probably angry I guess about what happened last week, etc. In the meantime, if there are any steps that I should take or suggestions you can give on how to make the right moves to win her back (apart from learning validation skills), what I should text her, etc please let me know as I am taking all this in very seriously and honestly.

People who suffer from BPD have intense emotions that they have a hard time controlling or regulating. When they are going through periods where emotions are overwhelming, space can really help a person with BPD (pwBPD). It gives them that time to regulate and get back to an emotional baseline. Most likely she will contact you when she feels ready.  Chasing someone never works out well. From my experience, it had negative results. Actually, when I held back and did not chase, my boyfriend eventually reached out to me.

I wish I could give you a play-by-play analysis of how to get someone back. Although there are similar traits amongst pwBPD, each person is different. It is similar to people who do not suffer from BPD. Specific things that work for me, may not work for you.  Communication techniques, such as validation do work really well in general. Learning how to effectively communicate with Little Miss Chatterbox is the best move.

I can understand that you are worried about what she is thinking. It can drive you bananas worrying so much, because you really never know what she is thinking.   Only she knows.  Take a deep breath, try to relax, and focus on you. What types of things do you like to do to relax or unwind?

Keep on posting. We are here for you. 

[cosmonaut]

I'm sorry to hear about all that you are dealing with, JT.  It sounds like you've had a tremendous amount of stress and I believe you when you say it's brought you to the brink of a mental breakdown.  These sort of relationships can be incredibly confusing, stressful, and even traumatic.  So, hang in there, and know that you are not alone.

The thing that I notice most in your story is that you have a lot of responsibility for the poor state of the relationship.  Even without considering her role at all, you've made some serious mistakes.  It's good that you realize this, but it is definitely going to take some serious self improvement before you are going to be ready for a stable and healthy relationship.  I don't say this to be cruel, but to help.  This can be an opportunity to really grow and become a better man for it.  That's true of most of us here.  Certainly for me.

It sounds like you have some boundary problems with your family.  I believe you when you say that there are cultural differences at work.  I can appreciate that, but I don't know that it is ever healthy to allow your family to dictate who you are allowed to love.  If they refuse to support you in your relationship, that's their choice of course.  You can't control them.  They have absolutely no right to attempt to sabotage your relationship, however, and you really do need to start setting some hard boundaries there.  It may be hard at first.  You may feel like a bad son, but you are a grown man now.  You have a right to be an independent person.  This degree of enmeshment with your family is not healthy, in my opinion.  I would strongly urge you to start setting boundaries with your family about unacceptable behavior.  This site is a great resource for learning more about how to do this.

The degree of dishonesty you've engaged in is fairly enormous, JT.  I would say it's a tall order for any relationship to overcome this level of sustained dishonesty.  I would certainly advise that you commit to never repeating this pattern again.  It may be awful at the time to be honest with our partner.  I understand that.  We all do.  No one wants to tell our partner that we have let them down.  But honesty is essential to healthy relationships.  We have to be able to trust our partner.  This is critical to emotional safety.  One of the things that you will notice over and over again here is that at some point emotional safety in a failed relationship has broken down.  When this happens, the relationship has entered crisis.  If this cannot be restored, the relationship will near certainly fail.  So, your goal now is far more than just being honest.  It is to rebuild that emotional safety.  Trust is an essential component of that.  Unfortunately, this is not something that you can completely control.  You can't control what your partner feels in regards to how emotionally safe she feels with you.  The most that you can do is to create the best possible environment for this to be rebuilt.

It is a very difficult truth, but we can't make anyone love us.  There is no recipe to rekindling your relationship with your fiancee.  Love potions are alas only for fairy tales.  I would advise you that the best possible thing you can do is to spend some time doing serious work on yourself.  After all, this is the only aspect of your relationship that you can completely control.  If you can afford a therapist, I would strongly advise you to begin to work with one.  They can help you on this journey of self improvement.  Relationships are tricky things.  With something as serious as a personality disorder involved this is exponentially so.  Relationships involving BPD require that we be in tremendously strong mental health ourselves.  We must be the rock in these relationships.  We must be the ones that are the constant, stable emotional core.  This is very hard stuff.  So, we have work to do.  I would spend some time reading about the tools of a relationship involving BPD.  These are the tools that we need to give our relationship the best possible footing.

Hang in there and keep posting.  It helps to get feedback from the group and it helps to express how we are feeling.  We can also learn quite a lot from one another and use it towards building happier, more stable relationships.

[1minuteatatime]

It's good that you realize this, but it is definitely going to take some serious self improvement before you are going to be ready for a stable and healthy relationship.  I don't say this to be cruel, but to help.  This can be an opportunity to really grow and become a better man for it.  That's true of most of us here.  Certainly for me.

We have to be able to trust our partner.  This is critical to emotional safety.  One of the things that you will notice over and over again here is that at some point emotional safety in a failed relationship has broken down.  When this happens, the relationship has entered crisis.  If this cannot be restored, the relationship will near certainly fail.  So, your goal now is far more than just being honest.  It is to rebuild that emotional safety.  Trust is an essential component of that.  Unfortunately, this is not something that you can completely control.  You can't control what your partner feels in regards to how emotionally safe she feels with you.  The most that you can do is to create the best possible environment for this to be rebuilt.

It is a very difficult truth, but we can't make anyone love us.  

Relationships involving BPD require that we be in tremendously strong mental health ourselves.  We must be the rock in these relationships.  We must be the ones that are the constant, stable emotional core.  This is very hard stuff.  So, we have work to do.  I would spend some time reading about the tools of a relationship involving BPD.  These are the tools that we need to give our relationship the best possible footing.

I will add... . I thought that I was emotionally strong.  Until I entered into a relationship with my highly sensitive girlfriend.  I don't know if she has BPD.  She shows many traits, but not all of them.  Irrespective.  I fed into the "drama" the last few weeks.  I was less of a rock.  Less willing to let her go.  It's weird, but... . One thing I have learned is that I was not open, honest and square with her.(about my feelings, fears, anxiety, etc)  Out of my own abandonment fears.  The more open I was(early on), the better things were.  As I distanced, she did too.  We both were dishonest about feelings and facts.  That was our biggest mistake.  

She didn't feel as safe as possible emotionally.  I'm pretty sure that she tried to tell me that she loved me on at least 3 occasions.  I just wasn't ready for that step.  She was still married(separated) and said that she was bitter about his cheating.  

She feared that I was cheating on her.  I feared she would abandon me.  I didn't express my deepest fears and feelings for her.  She questioned whether I even cared for her.  Whether I could even commit.  I would say that we need to be more than a "rock".  We need to be emotional sand.  Strong, pliable/flexible and unflinching.  Filling in the empty parts through validation.  I rarely validated her.  I wanted to listen.  To understand.  It's like Abe Lincoln said. When cutting down a tree, it's best to sharpen the ax for 7 hours and cut for 1.  Try to figure out what tools you can use.  Then use them properly.

[JapTuner2016]

Good afternoon from the UK! Sorry I haven't logged on for about a week, however I have been reading and re-reading all your advices on a daily basis while at the same time patiently waiting for Little Miss Chatterbox to contact me in her own time. And she did, last night I got 12 missed calls from her from 20:47-00:41. I was doing my night shift at McDonalds but each time she rang I was unable to answer as it was quite busy (you know what it's like on Fri and Sat nights when everyone is out clubbing, drinking, etc). She rang me on private so obviously hiding her caller ID (she knows I absolutely hate that and that I find it very rude and disrespectful but she justifies herself how it's OK and I shouldn't be serious about it). I've never known any person who pretty much constantly hides their caller ID because she keeps forgetting to change it back for me after calling her GP, therapist, dentist or whoever or she thinks that I'm her enemy or something and she probably feels that by "hiding" her caller ID she is protecting herself? Whatever it is I would like this as one of issues being resolved, however she says that when we get married then she will always reveal her caller ID to me. What? People who aren't married, or are friends, family, colleagues, etc always show their caller IDs unless someone is playing a prank or something dodgy/not right is going on. And then she'll come out with something like I'm not normal and I'm a psycho who's holding her back from her happiness and making her put on weight by feeding her junk food or always upsetting her so she can binge eat and get fat so no nice guy will ever come into her life and marry her. WOW, the stuff that she comes out with is really crazy (I don't mean it in a mental disorder context, I mean it like DAYUM girl calm down for God's sake JEEZ!).

But yeah, she rang me last night 12 times (while hiding her caller ID). I haven't texted her back as of yet as I wanted to quickly update you guys first. What should I say? What should I text her?

Yes, I agree with all of you that I must become healthy and focus on getting myself better as I've been heavily damaged by this BPD experience so I've found a personal trainer and will commence my 90-day road to recovery sometime between mid-Feb/early March. I have every intention to make sure my lifestyle is as healthy as possible, my diet significantly improves so that I get the right nutrition that my body currently lacks, my physique is much nicer than looking skinny/slim (finally get my 6-pack back!), improve my wardrobe so I look nice when I go out, keep up-to-date with news and sport and read what's happening more around in the world. Other stuff I enjoy doing is playing video games, I enjoy watching anime (sometimes my mom will watch with me), I'm into cars and bodybuilding a lot, I want to finally be able to go out and catch up with friends I haven't seen for a couple of years and eventually work on getting my social life back and get out of this upset and depressed state. As you have all quite rightly said, as a non-BPD, I must ensure that I am strong mentally and be the rock for Little Miss Chatterbox.

I understand I need to set boundaries with my family and with Little Miss Chatterbox. Please can you explain how I can go about doing this? What steps should I take? What do I need to say/do?

Thank you all so much again for your support, I REALLY REALLY REALLY appreciate it!

[JapTuner2016]

Hey guys, She just texted me about half an hour ago saying, "Funny that's few wks ago u were so "concerned" abt my mental health, u tried to  break my arm and called the police to "protect" me because u "love" me but now u just disappeared? God saw everything that u been doing the last few years, all the lies u told me, all the pain u caused. peoples may think that u r the nice guy but God and i know what type of person you are."

How should u respond to her text?

[flourdust]

Hey guys, She just texted me about half an hour ago saying, "Funny that's few wks ago u were so "concerned" abt my mental health, u tried to  break my arm and called the police to "protect" me because u "love" me but now u just disappeared? God saw everything that u been doing the last few years, all the lies u told me, all the pain u caused. peoples may think that u r the nice guy but God and i know what type of person you are."

How should u respond to her text?

I can't think of any way to respond to that text that leads to any good outcome.

I think your plan to work on becoming healthy -- not just physically, but in having a more well-rounded life -- is an excellent one. Do that for yourself. Don't do it to "be the rock" for your ex, because none of those things will change how she acts toward you.

[JapTuner2016]

Hey guys, She just texted me about half an hour ago saying, "Funny that's few wks ago u were so "concerned" abt my mental health, u tried to  break my arm and called the police to "protect" me because u "love" me but now u just disappeared? God saw everything that u been doing the last few years, all the lies u told me, all the pain u caused. peoples may think that u r the nice guy but God and i know what type of person you are."

How should u respond to her text?

I can't think of any way to respond to that text that leads to any good outcome.

I think your plan to work on becoming healthy -- not just physically, but in having a more well-rounded life -- is an excellent one. Do that for yourself. Don't do it to "be the rock" for your ex, because none of those things will change how she acts toward you.

Thanks FlourDust!

I was just thinking of sending something neutral like "I was just giving you space. In the meantime I've been studying/researching more and more everyday about BPD and relationships for BPDs with non-BPDs and how each get affected, etc."

I wonder how she'll respond to that. I guess she'll probably be like, "Whatever! You don't care and you don't love me! You never bothered texting me to check up on me to see if I was OK!" (At that point I would be like what's the point it's not like you're gonna reply to my text anyway coz of your BPD splitting behaviour. But I won't really say that as it would trigger an argument, so I'm going to try to keep it neutral and give validation a try.)

[flourdust]

Hey guys, She just texted me about half an hour ago saying, "Funny that's few wks ago u were so "concerned" abt my mental health, u tried to  break my arm and called the police to "protect" me because u "love" me but now u just disappeared? God saw everything that u been doing the last few years, all the lies u told me, all the pain u caused. peoples may think that u r the nice guy but God and i know what type of person you are."

How should u respond to her text?

I can't think of any way to respond to that text that leads to any good outcome.

I think your plan to work on becoming healthy -- not just physically, but in having a more well-rounded life -- is an excellent one. Do that for yourself. Don't do it to "be the rock" for your ex, because none of those things will change how she acts toward you.

Thanks FlourDust!

I was just thinking of sending something neutral like "I was just giving you space. In the meantime I've been studying/researching more and more everyday about BPD and relationships for BPDs with non-BPDs and how each get affected, etc."

I wonder how she'll respond to that. I guess she'll probably be like, "Whatever! You don't care and you don't love me! You never bothered texting me to check up on me to see if I was OK!" (At that point I would be like what's the point it's not like you're gonna reply to my text anyway coz of your BPD splitting behaviour. But I won't really say that as it would trigger an argument, so I'm going to try to keep it neutral and give validation a try.)

I think you're probably right about the response. Whatever you do, avoid getting into a text argument or text JADEing. It's better just to let it drop.

[JapTuner2016]

I just got a reply about 20 mins ago and she says, "So basically u destroying my life, i can't use my right arm at the moment but doing all that because u cared abt me by researching the effects of BPD. I found it hard to believe it, u only care abt urself".

What should I say to her?

[flourdust]

I just got a reply about 20 mins ago and she says, "So basically u destroying my life, i can't use my right arm at the moment but doing all that because u cared abt me by researching the effects of BPD. I found it hard to believe it, u only care abt urself".

What should I say to her?

Nothing. You can't win a text fight. Let it go.

[JapTuner2016]

I just got a reply about 20 mins ago and she says, "So basically u destroying my life, i can't use my right arm at the moment but doing all that because u cared abt me by researching the effects of BPD. I found it hard to believe it, u only care abt urself".

What should I say to her?

Nothing. You can't win a text fight. Let it go.

OK, I haven't responded to her text. However, I've got 8 missed calls from her now (I'm currently on my night shift at McDonalds again tonight) and then she texted about 2 hours ago saying, "It probably say in all the research u made abt BPD f*** her life up and let her rot to death. Now it explains why u r like this a really mean, cruel person. Remember God is watching everything especially my tears."

So me giving her space according to her means I screw her life up and I'm letting her rot to death - WOW, that's amazing! Seriously, how do I handle this situation now? After her abrupt/negative texts it makes me feel like just giving up sometimes and moving on as the constant arguing, blaming stuff on me, etc really frustrates me a lot and I can't even talk to my own family nor friends about this that Little Misd Chatterbox has BPD not would her family members respond to me via Whatsapp nor Facebook.

What should I text back to help calm her down or not think negatively or to cheer her up?

[flourdust]

What should I text back to help calm her down or not think negatively or to cheer her up?

You can't make that happen.

[JapTuner2016]

What should I text back to help calm her down or not think negatively or to cheer her up?

You can't make that happen.

What should I do now? What happens next? Any advice would be really helpful.

[JapTuner2016]

Anything at all guys?

[JapTuner2016]

I've had 2 missed calls from her about less than half an hour ago.

What should I do? What should I say? How do I go about setting boundaries (without her getting upset, angry, etc)?

[JapTuner2016]

She just texted a moment ago and said, "And btw stop all researches abt BPD as the biggest trigger for suicide it's when some1 is giving hope and destroy it because it think it's funny. So now u can go and call the police on me as u r the 1 who's pushing me to become suicidal."

What should I do? What should I say? Please help me!

[flourdust]

I will repeat my advice from above. I know it's crazy-making to have all these abusive texts sent your way and to feel that you should do something to "fix" it.

I can't think of any way to respond to that text that leads to any good outcome.

I think your plan to work on becoming healthy -- not just physically, but in having a more well-rounded life -- is an excellent one. Do that for yourself. Don't do it to "be the rock" for your ex, because none of those things will change how she acts toward you.

This is still the best advice.

As for boundaries -- your boundaries are to protect YOU. They WILL make her angry, because she doesn't want you to be safe. She wants you to react to her in ways that make you feel worse. Your boundaries only work if you are willing to enforce them no matter how she tries to stop you.

Suicide threats are extremely common with pwBPD. In some cases, they're an attempt to manipulate you to get you to take on the role of her rescuer. In other cases, they're real. If you can't tell if she's serious or not, then your only responsibility is to notify professionals who are TRAINED to evaluate suicide threats. Call your local suicide hotline or emergency number and give them her contact information. They will reach out to her to determine if the threat is genuine and intervene if necessary. There will be a few outcomes from this.

1) If she's truly suicidal, you may save her life.

2) If she's acting suicidal to get your attention, you will show her that she does not get the attention she wants and may desist from this behavior in the future.

3) You will show her that you are not playing games, and you are responding like a responsible adult to her threats. She will be angry with you, because she doesn't want adult interaction. Nonetheless, her anger is not a good reason not to do this.