I am taking huge steps back

[Depression = 72% of members]

Please everyone help me understand! We were in a long distance relationship. He broke up with me end of November.Since then he keeps breaking no contact and I keep responding. In one of our arguments where I pushed to understand what the break up was about, he confessed he has two kids but that he is divorced. I was devastated that he kept something like this from me. He said he did it because he didn't want to loose me which is SO unfair because he knows this wouldn't be a problem for me. I did some digging and found out he is still married too. I confronted him about it and then he said it's true he is not divorced but that he is separated. I have a million reasons to believe he is still married. One of which is that we were together for 9 months and I have never been to his house because supposedly his mother was staying with him while she had chemo for breast cancer. How is it possible for someone to lie about something like that?  He is jumping up and down to convince me that he is separated.

I KNOW HE IS BAD FOR ME AND I KNOW I SHOULD NOT BE WITH HIM. I KNOW ALL THE PAIN HE CAUSED AND ALL THE LIES ARE ENOUGH FOR ME TO LET GO. I KNOW I WON'T EVER BE HAPPY WITH HIM WHETHER HE IS MARRIED OR SEPARATED OR SIGNGLE. I really don't need any more proof to know that he is not the man I want for myself. But I am still obsessing and struggling to find out if he is still married or not. This is not going to change anything but still, I want to know. It's like I need proof  that this "love" was not a complete lie. And I loose it, I get confused. I see him cry and getting devastated in trying to convince me that he is separated and that he trully loved me and I feel guilty that I may be too harsh on him. I don't know what to believe any more. I have been reading every single post in this forum. I know that as hard as it is to comprehend, it is possible that he is still lying in my face. I want to believe that he loved me and everything else he is saying but I know he can be crying and lying at the same time. Am I too harsh on him? Am I getting harsh because I am reading about all the deceits of others exs' on the board? Am I getting fooled again?  PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND!

[Penelope35]

Please everyone help me understand! We were in a long distance relationship. He broke up with me end of November.Since then he keeps breaking no contact and I keep responding. In one of our arguments where I pushed to understand what the break up was about, he confessed he has two kids but that he is divorced. I was devastated that he kept something like this from me. He said he did it because he didn't want to loose me which is SO unfair because he knows this wouldn't be a problem for me. I did some digging and found out he is still married too. I confronted him about it and then he said it's true he is not divorced but that he is separated. I have a million reasons to believe he is still married. One of which is that we were together for 9 months and I have never been to his house because supposedly his mother was staying with him while she had chemo for breast cancer. How is it possible for someone to lie about something like that?  He is jumping up and down to convince me that he is separated.

I KNOW HE IS BAD FOR ME AND I KNOW I SHOULD NOT BE WITH HIM. I KNOW ALL THE PAIN HE CAUSED AND ALL THE LIES ARE ENOUGH FOR ME TO LET GO. I KNOW I WON'T EVER BE HAPPY WITH HIM WHETHER HE IS MARRIED OR SEPARATED OR SIGNGLE. I really don't need any more proof to know that he is not the man I want for myself. But I am still obsessing and struggling to find out if he is still married or not. This is not going to change anything but still, I want to know. It's like I need proof  that this "love" was not a complete lie. And I loose it, I get confused. I see him cry and getting devastated in trying to convince me that he is separated and that he trully loved me and I feel guilty that I may be too harsh on him. I don't know what to believe any more. I have been reading every single post in this forum. I know that as hard as it is to comprehend, it is possible that he is still lying in my face. I want to believe that he loved me and everything else he is saying but I know he can be crying and lying at the same time. Am I too harsh on him? Am I getting harsh because I am reading about all the deceits of others exs' on the board? Am I getting fooled again?  PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND!

[Welgrow]

Penelope35,

You are telling my story in yet another form. I have been broken up with the lady I fell for since the beginning of December. Over the last 1 1/2 months I've tried to go No Contact for 3 separate stretches. The first one lasted 17 days until she saw me at a public place and approached me. We talked for a week and she tried to convince me to take her back. The relationship ended as a result of infidelity, multiple failed "second" chances to regain my trust, and a series of occasions where she cut herself while refusing to seek out DBT counseling. Again she contacted me after 4 or 5 days of NC to inform me that her step dad has Lou Gehrigs Disease. She used my response as an opportunity to try to get me back again. She has told me so many lies and I find myself with a similar obsession to know the truth and to understand why she did what she did. None of it makes sense and the probability of BPD gives me some sense of stability, but I'm still stuck. I love her, and I genuinely care for her well-being. I wish she truly was the woman I first thought she was. I wish she was the woman who she presented herself as. It's a terrible sense of loss, and I can also related to the feeling and knowledge that she is not the right person for me. It still hurts. I still love her. I still wish I could be with her.

I had a similar reaction from her where she solemnly swore that she isn't still chasing other men. She told me that "NOW" she's being totally honest with me. Yet I caught her in a few lies just a few days ago. Her stories seem to change with the tide. She has told me so many times that I'm the only man for her and that she only wants me. She said that she will only want me and that she will wait for me as long as it takes for me to come around. She said these things, and I respond by reminding her that she had me and cheated on me. I told her that I already gave her so many chances and that I've got no more trust for her. I finally told her that I couldn't keep talking to her because it only caused me pain and brought up the anger I have for being emotionally abused and cheated on. I told her that there was probably no chance that I would ever trust her again and that I don't deserve to be in a relationship where I feel like I constantly have to chase around behind her to make sure I'm not getting played again, or have to be her constant caretaker. I have a daughter (full time) and I don't deserve to have an adult relationship where I can't trust my partner to help me care for my kiddo. She begged for just one more chance, and I told her it would take a miracle to regain my trust and that unless she found a miracle then she needed to leave me alone forever.

I don't know if this helps you, but I've been feeling like I'm in a backwards slide too. I miss her desperately, but I can't expose myself or my daughter to her instability. I can't keep living in that terrible, obsessive limbo. I have been afraid that I would break down and take her back. I met her for coffee a few days ago and she still has power over me. It's power that I surrendered to her and just haven't figured out how to reclaim just yet. I think you and I are on a good path. Sometimes it's a step backwards and then 2 steps forward. What do you think you will do from here?

[Itstopsnow]

I feel like I'm slipping back into depression and missing him and also hating him. I guess it's common. I've been no contact almost 70 days and the feelings come and go. But I think about him daily. It sucks. But they can't offer you anything more than what they are giving you. Remember it's a complicated mental illness, it won't get better without proper therapy and even then it may not,  best advise is go no contact , it will suck and Hurt but it isn't working. It's the only way to move on that will be healthy for you

[Penelope35]

These past couple of days have been the hardest for me. We kept communicating and the more we talked the more I could see that I just can't trust this guy or anything he is saying. So he admitted he is not divorced but that he is separated and then admitted further that he is staying at his family house one or two nights each week because his son wants him to. Maybe if i kept pushing he would admit he is with his family full time. All this is just too much... .I have been with this person for nine months, I fell in love, I dreamed about a future together, I cried for him, I was in pain by him and I now find myself wondering if I even know him at all.

How can you be telling somebody you love them, that they are the most wonderful thing that's ever happened to them, that you never want to loose them and at the same time be so dishonest. I asked him several times if he is in another relationship because I could always sense something was weird. He was looking in my eyes and saying no and that I should stop being ridiculous. How can I ever trust this guy again?

Today I took the big decision to block him on everything. I was thinking all morning if i had any last words for him before I did it but then I said no. I always think of things i should have told him but this time didnt want to put myself in the position to be expecting an answer from him. All day yesterday he was apologising and telling me how much he wants to make up for everything he has done to me. He said he is coming i  ten days to proove me how much he loves me and that we would travel back to his place together so that he could show me his family situation and this huge part of his daily life that i had no idea existed. I almost got fooled again. I started believing this thing could work. But then thank God i kind of woke up! Even if it's true that he is separated and even if I forgave the fact that he kept this from me, there are still all these other things that have happened during these nine months that i just can't keep  ignoring. I believe deep inside we all know that this is not what we want for ourselves.  I don't want a man in my life you I can't trust, who is lying in my face, who doesn't make me a better person, who is never accountable, never makes me feel safe, who always puts himself first, who makes me cry when he pushes me and only makes me feel good when he needs me and starts pulling me back in.

Throughout the day yesterday he kept trying to convince me how he will do anything to revert all the damage. By the afternoon and when he could see that I was still skeptical but almost ready to give in,  he said "I am also skeptical now"... .The passionate and determined man to win me back was just gone. So I call him late at night and that's when the pivotal point for me to take the decision to block him from everywhere happened. I told him I can't do it anymore. I said all the trust is gone and that I needed to protect my self and just couldn't get in another circle of pain. I was crying while saying all these things and it was obvious how hard it was for me to reject his "willingness" to revert the damage. He didn't speak at all while I was talking and when I stopped he just said "you still love me... .this is unbelievable". I don't even know how to explain it but at that second I felt that this person just wanted to suck out of me even the slightest emotion that was left in me. I was devastated and hurt like no other time and here he was needing to hear again how much HE is loved... .I felt abused. I don't know it this sounds exaggerated but in that second I felt abused. I said goodbye and he said " time will tell if this is the final goodbye".

So I woke up this morning feeling like a mess. But said I owe it to myself to find  the strength to take the power he has on me away from him. And I blocked him. This is not love. This is not the kind of love I want and this is not the kind of love anyone of us needs.

So this is what I did Welcham. I know the next days will be hard but i am determined to stick to my decision. There Iis no other way. I know i will be sad and I know I will be missing him but I will not allow my self to feel the despair I feel when I am talking to him again. We are worth much more than this and nobody should be given the right to have so much power over us.

Welcham please find the strength to do what is right for you too. You are not alone. Itstopsnow you should be very proud you managed to get through the most difficult part of the detachment process. I am sure one day we wil all remember these experiences and be surprised with how much he had invested in these unhealthy relationships.

Take care

[Welgrow]

Penelope35, you are right. We deserve so much better. Something I have to improve is my concept self worth. She is so sick and it sounds like your ex is the same. How are you doing with no contact so far?

[Penelope35]

Thanks for asking welcham. I have managed to not respond to his messages for 2 weeks before. Now it's just the beginning. It's hard and actually it's harder this time because i am morw determined to end it. I keep thinking of things I want to tell him and questions I would like to ask. But I know that this is my own difficulty to let go and this is what I need to fight. I also know that talking to him sucks me back.

I have to handle it as an addiction. There is no other way. I HAVE to get him out of my system! I also try to keep in mind that he has a mental health issue and thus remind my self constantly that I should not take things he has said and done personally. It's difficult.  I am hurting but I really want to be happy again.

How are you doing?

[Welgrow]

I'm very much in the same space. I have been 17 days into no contact. That was last month. Each time since has been shorter and shorter. I'm not quite ready to block her number or change my number, but it may have to get to that. I'm currently back at about 24 hours of no contact with my addiction. It's funny that we both use the same metaphor of an addictive substance.

I've never been this sad/attached to someone after a breakup. It's been a month and a half and I feel nowhere near ready to move on. I almost wish that I could meet someone new just to get my mind off of her. I know that's probably not the healthiest way to cope, but we're being honest here, right? What are your plans to work on yourself following this whirlwind of a relationship?

[Penelope35]

Today is not a good day for me... .I feel very low and started having the urge to unblock him. But I won't... .

Regarding your question about my plans, I was already in therapy before meeting my ex because I wanted to do some work for my own personal awareness. The past 10 months my therapy is all about him though which will eventually lead to more personal awareness I am sure. I definitely have more work to do. I also keep reading stuff about addictive/codependent relationships on the internet. The truth is I never considered my self codependent. The opposite I would say. I don't understand how this BPD thing worked on me but it's like I became a different person. My friends say so too. I would have never imagined that I would be stuck in such an unfair and harmful relationship. Do you also understand that the only way to let go is through no contact? I think we all know that but if we could just stick to it... .

I wish I meet somebody else too to be honest. And not just to take my mind off of him but I actually want to fall in love again soon Is that too much to ask?

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Penelope,

In my experience, pwBPD have a different way of looking at the world. My BPDxbf told me that he isn't married because he doesn't FEEL married even though he isn't yet divorced and has told me that. He told me that he left his wife because he was brought to his senses when he found himself threatening her with a knife. I have since found out that his conviction for this was BEFORE he even married her. He told me he was press-ganged into marriage when his partner got pregnant to trap him. I later found out that his daughter was born at least a year before they got married.

Personally, I would be careful because what he tells you about his life is based upon what he FEELS to be the case. For instance, he may FEEL that they are separated because they are 'emotionally' separated, not sharing a bed, not sharing a room, not having sex, or even because he simply wishes that were the case etc etc. Even if he is separated, that doesn't mean she isn't still his primary relationship. He could tell you anything but his definition of what is true will likely be different to yours.

For myself, I have found that it is impossible to determine what the actual truth is. My information came from the internet and not him. In the end, I had to let go of the need to know. He doesn't even know that I know he's been lying to me.

I understand your need to know whether the whole thing has been a lie. I needed that too. However, even if it wasn't, that doesn't mean that he has a capacity for true intimacy, pwBPD don't.

Love Lifewriter

[Penelope35]

Hello Lifewriter and thank you for taking the time to give me your perspective. It helps a lot. I guess my two main struggles right now are not knowing the WHOLE truth about the situation and questioning his feelings for me.

I hope I can get to a point where I realise it doesn't really matter what the truth is and stay focused on my own truth-that this relationship was bad for me and that a person who can take me down so much is not the man/love of my life.

Concerning his feelings for me, it brings me some peace to think that he did love me, but in his own terms. I don't know if it just suits me to think of it this way but I do feel he loved me, just not in the way true and mature love is supposed to happen. He loved me in the way a person with BPD can love, which comes with the push/pull behavior, the idealization/devaluation phases, the silent treatments, the lies etc. Cause it is now my understanding that this is the only way people with BPD can "love". I do believe when they said they loved us they meant it. If their fear of abandonment makes them hold two and three relationships at the same time because they are afraid we may leave them what can we do? If the honeymoon phase was followed by a devaluation phase what can we do? I believe they did/do feel love for us, but the BPD kind of love, which is the only way they can love.

[Welgrow]

Hey Penelope35,

I know that taking each period of NC has helped me in my growth and healing process. It sounds like we are in total agreement there. The most recent phases of contact for me have been full of anger and blaming (which are also phases of grief). I have vented this anger and blame towards her. Whether or not she deserves a piece of my mind matters not. It's not my job to punish her. I have certain beliefs regarding a higher power, and it continues to harm me to vent this anger towards her. Even if I didn't have spiritual beliefs then it makes sense that by continuing contact with her at this point I'm keeping myself stuck in that phase of the grief recovery process. No contact may be temporary for me, but it's a tool to help me along and prevent ripping off the bandaid.

2 nights ago she texted me a nude photo and a message. I responded to it and reminded her as lovingly as I could that it was a violation of the boundary and that I wasn't available to her in that way because of her choices. I let her know that I love her and left it at that. She hasn't contacted me since.

I feel like you're right! It's not too much to ask. We should fall in love again. We need to fall in love again. I need to be able to trust again. This stuff is all mandatory! It's part of life, and I refuse to let this failed relationship rob me of life. I feel like I just need to be still for a little while. I don't want to rush it. I want to feel it all this time. I want to learn and grow towards something better. What do you think about that point of view?

[Penelope35]

Hey Welcham. I feel like I need to be still too. I never go out of my way to find love anyway. But if THE ONE comes along it wouldn't hurt would it? I think I am dreaming trying to get this heavy feelings off me I guess... .

Am I too off with my understanding of their love towards us  when I say they do love us but just the BPD way? I m thinking it may suit me better to think of it this way but on the other hand i do feel he loved me. I know though that love for him means need for validation, reassurance and so on, which is sad... .I wish he could love the right/healthy way.

It is very clear to me that when I stop contact my mind starts to clear up and I miss him and feel extremely sad for the loss but I am not the mess I am when I talk to him. I think it's ok to feel this way after a break up and I wish I can overcome this phase without reaching out to him or responding to his messages. Even a message from him saying "hi" takes me back to zero... .

[Welgrow]

It's amazing how similar our journeys are. I've found so many people that understand how this relationship affects me. I know that feeling of slipping back to zero when I talk to her or the few times I've seen her. I think about her/this/us all the time, and she has claimed to think of me the same way. Based on what I've learned it's doubtful that she does. I'm like you... .I want these feelings to subside, and I want someone to share my life with. My ex and I spent just about all our free time together, and now I have a huge void and tons of loneliness. I want a partner, but I also want a loving partner who is kind, honest, trustworthy and compassionate.

I have started working on BPD Family's "12 steps to finding true love" and last night I wrote a list of what my lover should be. I quickly scribbled 26 items and when I was done I looked at it. The first thing apparent was that my ex didn't fit the bill with quite a few items. In fact, she was missing 16 of the 26 requirements... .To me that was a profound realization. She wasn't capable of giving me what I need. I gave it my all and don't want to kick myself. I simply didn't see the bulk of these shortcomings until the last month of our relationship when out came the infidelity, self harm, and the web of lies. Have you done any of the self reflection work that they offer here?

I wish I could find my true love today (in hopes that it would ease the pain and we could start to build dreams together). I just know that there are so many things I should do to grow first. If I were to meet someone awesome today I would plan to tell them that I'd love to hang out but that it would have to be the non-romantic kind of relationship for now. Do you think something like that would work for you too?

[Penelope35]

Hey you changed your name!

At this point I so want this relationship to be in the past that if the man of my life would appear now I wouldn't put him on hold I rationally know that I really should let go of the "idea" of my ex and not spend much time grieving either because his behavior had to do with his BPD. I am trying hard not to reminisce of the good times because those where also exaggerated due to his BPD. I try to view this relationship for what it was. Which is sad but it's the reality.

I can't block his text messages on my phone so I made them go directly to the spam folder. I was doing good not checking but then I did on Saturday and since then I keep checking  I struggled to not respond to but he knows my buttons and knows exactly what to say to get a response from me. I was expecting this specific message and knew it was a matter of time I get it. So he send it and what it included was basically self-validation about his decision to hide his marriage and kids from me. He says that if he had told me I would react like i do now and cut him off and not give us a chance. Such a manipulative comment! It's like he forgets that he is the one who broke up with me and who was lying in my face about something so important for so long. For him it  feels like I am abandoning him now because I found out he is separated and has kids. And he is not even separated. Even if he is emotionally separated he is still living in his family house. He completely ignores everything that happened and has created his own reality which says that I have abandoned him now that I know the truth... .This is what we mean when we say emotional immaturity.

He doesn't understand that being honest was the right thing to do and that my reaction now has to do with the fact that he has been lying in my face for so long. He doesn't understand that if what he claims is true, he should have sat down as an adult and discuss his situation with me, explain why he hasn't left his home yet and give me the right to decide if I wanted to get involved under those circumstnces. He doesn't get that lying makes the other petson loose trust. Right now he thinks he is justified for lying because if he had said the truth I would have left him anyway... .what a mess! I couldn't keep it together when I read that message and I responded (not very clever of me I know). I just can't accept that he gets to these kinds of conclusions and wanted to tell him that he is only fooling himself to feel better for his s... .y behavior. I know that won't register either but I couldn't keep silent. I am trying to go on with my healing though I don't feel that responding has affected me yet. I am ok for now at least.

How are you doing?

[Welgrow]

Hey Penelope35,

It sounds like you're doing great. I can relate to having a hard time avoiding the bait, especially when the bait is one of my triggers. I can also relate to the frustration about when they use a fictional perspective to illicit our FOG (Fear Obligation Guilt)!

Are you truly ready to go 100% No Contact? I have struggled with NC. I have waffled on that decision back and forth with my recent lover. I wasn't responding to her messages last month for a stretch, however she even had her brother text me for her to ask me for a favor. When I saw her face to face I was immediately sucked back into communication. We are currently back to about 7 days of mutual NC. But I haven't blocked her number or changed my number.

I only ask about whether you're ready to go NC because there are more absolute measures to take to eliminate contact. You could change your number. It's really your choice, and no one else can tell you when to be ready. I know that I'm not ready to be as drastic as changing my number. You said that you are ready to stop grieving, and I wish I was there. I cried myself to sleep last night after laying down in my bed, alone. It's the new bed that I bought for her... .My eyes have been welling up off and on so far today. I thought I was past the crying part, but apparently I'm not.

You don't have to rush or make decisions based on what others want. Grieving can take time, and you have the right to feel what you feel. If you still need to read his messages then do it. If you still need to respond then do it. This is your life and your lessons to learn. No one can learn them for you. I've really appreciated our back and forth on your board here. It seems that we are in very similar places in this process.

[Penelope35]

Hey good morning (it's morning here)

I have appreciated our back and forth too. Yes it seems like we are in very similar places... .

I am obviously not ready for total no contact yet... .I have been trying hard to not respond though but haven't been successful. I am also not ready to stop grieving but I SO MUCH WANT the grieving to be over because rationally I know this relationship is not worth all this crying and beating my self up. I know I can't force things to happen but I want to start feeling stronger... .

Reading his messages and responding will never get me stronger... .I can see how many steps back I take every time I get a message and how many more every time I respond. I think we should all actually accept that it needs to be over at some point and gather whatever strength is left in us and take the decision to take them out of our lives. We still let them come and go and we still let them illicit out FOG every time... .

It's all too heavy for me today... .I hope you are in a better place now than where you were last night

[Welgrow]

At first I felt like I completely relapsed when I saw her and talked to her again. I felt like I had failed at no contact and felt terrible about how my supports would look at me for continuing any interaction with her. Then I read some posts by someone here named Skip (the site director)... .He made it sound like it was ok to be wherever we are in the process. He had the same message regarding self-care regardless of whether we are communicating with our pwBPD or not. I was in a very angry place at the time and had spent my time and energy venting to her about how her actions hurt me. Luckily I was able to hear the message: that no contact should be more about stopping the bleeding and preventing either party from taking further damage. From my understanding they talked about NC as a tool to help foster healing, and they introduced a new concept to me: DNR (Do Not Resuscitate the relationship) regardless of whether there is communication or not. If I do communicate with her in the future then I need to be in a space where I don't keep getting drug back into my anger. I already expressed my anger and continuing to beat a dead horse doesn't help anybody even me.

I am doing better today. I'm looking forward to a snowboarding trip to Colorado with my friends. I'm trying to do better with self-love and celebrating life, and since my daughter was born I haven't been one to take trips just for myself. This will be nice. Do you have anything that you are doing just for you? Self-love?

[Penelope35]

If I do communicate with her in the future then I need to be in a space where I don't keep getting drug back into my anger. I already expressed my anger and continuing to beat a dead horse doesn't help anybody even me.

This is so true but it is really hard for me to not repeat my self and express my anger and dissapointment over and over when I talk to him. Every tme he will say something manipulative or something that will remind me of his illogical way of thinking and will get me frustrated. I really don't know what I am trying to do when I talk to him... .I think I just can't accept thay he doesn't get how immature his way if thinking is and how unfair and hurtful he has been all this time. When I am not in contact I start to accept that I will never get validated by him for the way I am feeling but when he pops up and says something that triggers me I start all over again from zero trying to find justification.  I haven't been responding these days and today he send a message telling me thay he is coming in a few days (We were in a long distance r/s). So manipulative! He is testing me again and i get mad at my self because I still allow him to affect me. I know he is not coming. And what if he did? Would that change anything?

I am doing better today. I'm looking forward to a snowboarding trip to Colorado with my friends. I'm trying to do better with self-love and celebrating life, and since my daughter was born I haven't been one to take trips just for myself. This will be nice. Do you have anything that you are doing just for you? Self-love?

I am also planning a short trip to a Greek island with some friends. But now he kind of ruined that too because I will keep thinking what if he comes and I am not here?

[Welgrow]

Wow! You described exactly how our conversations go. They can start off pleasant and I can keep my cool, but as soon as she starts complaining that she doesn't have me anymore, or that I'm not responding the way she wants by just welcoming her back in, or insinuates that I'm abandoning her... .I start cutting her off and reminding her that she was the cheater and the liar who did the dirty deeds. I get wound up and angry. I feel that she has no right to come at me pointing fingers when I was the one having to take action to remove myself from her hurtful behavior. It's so hard and frustrating. Colorado is fantastic, but it's no surprise that she is still on my mind almost all day long. Congrats on your trip to Greece. I hope you don't skip on it.

[Penelope35]

Oh you are in Colorado now! That's great. Please try to enjoy your time and put all these to the side even if it's for a few days. It will get you stronger!

Have fun!