No amount of contact makes a difference

[Scopikaz]

You know in my mind and I think experts would agree.  No amount of texting, calling, pleading, convincing, promising, apologizing, saying I love you, or any thing else will make someone BPD or not come back and want to try again. 

A person with BPD ultimately decided to flee for whatever reason valid or invalid (that they felt as real) and In that sense they did what they felt necessary (again however misguided).

But for them to desire to try again or come back, it's got to be from within them. And hopefully for right reasons.  Although I suspect it's often because they have an experience that that is negative or bad and so they see no other option. Or it makes them realize they did wrong. Who knows.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Scopikaz]

Although to make it clear I'm trying to detach. Though i do want her to return. Just have no expectations that she ever will. Everything I've done to try to save things has been rejected.  I'm in day three of not texting her. Although she may do counseling on her own and we've talked about a couple concerts coming up.  But again I have no illusions or am trying not to about her.  That's why I am slowly trying to detach.

[whiteblue]

I've had times in which she'd ignore me for one or two months. I kept trying to message her to convince her to come back, but nothing seemed to work. Somehow, in my particular case, she'd often respond to a specific email suddenly and everything would be like before again.

Many times I've pleaded and it worked, but I have the experience that it only works as long as she's willing to respond to everything you say and write. When they pull the plug and start ignoring you, to me it often feels like them trying to prove a point, prove how strong they are and how powerful they are in being able to ignore you without a problem. They know you're there, they read what you're writing. But the more you do, the easier it becomes for them because they know you'll be there when they decide to come back (if they want to come back).

Ignoring them completely, is the worst thing you could do people like these. But then again, they just as well could move on and forget you. There's no predicting people with BPD.

[JSF13]

I never reach out first. I respond to her if she contacts me first. I have made it very clear that I will not tolerate abusive behavior from her. I very much stand my ground on that and I also make sure I stay very in control and consistent with what i expect if she choses to come back. I have left the ball in her court so she can make the decision for herself. Right now we haven't spoke since Friday when she completely degraded me and I even through her completely ruthless attack on me never lost control of myself or engaged back negatively. Nothing we do or say will ever bring them back. only they will and can decide.

[joeramabeme]

Although to make it clear I'm trying to detach. Though i do want her to return. Just have no expectations that she ever will. Everything I've done to try to save things has been rejected.  I'm in day three of not texting her. Although she may do counseling on her own and we've talked about a couple concerts coming up.  But again I have no illusions or am trying not to about her.  That's why I am slowly trying to detach.

Scopikaz - Sounds like you already know the answer to this one and would like some validation about your position.  I was married for 10 years and when she decided to leave and go through a very painful divorce process there was nothing I could do or say.  She would not even stay open to a possible reconciliation.  I kept asking why and all I really got back is her saying she was never really happy.  I tried to refute that point but facts don't matter b/c her feelings lead her to that conclusion.  So no - no amount of contact matters mostly b/c whatever you think you are saying is probably not resonating with the emptiness that they feel. 

This is a tough population to be in relation with and no amount of rational understanding can change that.

Best of luck with detaching.  I am 6 months out and it is still very hard.

[GoingBack2OC]

I'd say I agree with everyone here, and only add that the fact that you do plead, or even reach out, or even respond, in many way makes life easier for them.

Even though many of us long for reconciliation with our ex's. As did I (I still do but I realize that in reality; it's beyond repair and I need to move on), the pain we feel is amplified by the silence we are dealt time and time again. I cannot tell you how many "silent periods" I have been handed. It feels like being put in the corner, time out.

But for them, unless they have all together moved on and are with someone new, are lonely too.

I've found it's personally easier to not respond/reach out when the other party is trying to reach me. (I can't say I really do the silent treatment to people, and certainly never to the extremes which I have had to endure myself). But my exBPDgf was fairly predictable:  Something would put her into a very angry state (perhaps something I did, said etc); she would vanish. Days would go by, me trying to get any type of response. No replys at all.

Then I fall silent, only can try for so long right?  After usually a few days of me "not trying", a week at most, she would then start calling me.

But if I kept calling, or texting, or didnt leave that "gap", of a week or more, the silence would go on forever. It's almost as if she just "want's to know I'm there and want her" rather than "want's to be with me and me with her".

One final thought:  My ex, after maybe a week of silent (the last 3-4 days I didnt try any longer); finally did call me. I answered, as I do. She was calling me... .To specifically let me know she was changing her number and moving forward I would no longer be able to find her/call her (although I hadnt called or tried in days).

So She had gone silent. I tried for 3-4 days. Stopped. 3-4 Days passed. She had to inject back into the situation "abandonment", to make sure I knew she was gone. Of course a total bluff, but it still hurts.

[cosmonaut]

You know in my mind and I think experts would agree.  No amount of texting, calling, pleading, convincing, promising, apologizing, saying I love you, or any thing else will make someone BPD or not come back and want to try again. 

A person with BPD ultimately decided to flee for whatever reason valid or invalid (that they felt as real) and In that sense they did what they felt necessary (again however misguided).

But for them to desire to try again or come back, it's got to be from within them. And hopefully for right reasons.  Although I suspect it's often because they have an experience that that is negative or bad and so they see no other option. Or it makes them realize they did wrong. Who knows.

We can't make anyone have a relationship with us.  That is a hard truth, isn't it?  We can't make anyone love us.

People leave a relationship because they believe they are better off without the relationship.  This is just as true for a pwBPD.  They are acting in their self interest.  One of the most enlightening insights I've had in learning about BPD was in realizing just how often I had hurt my ex.  How many times I had invalidated and shamed her.  How often my trying to fix things was controlling and hurtful.  In doing that analysis, I came to realize that my ex, rather than having some completely irrational breakdown, was making a rational decision in her leaving me.  She really was doing what was best for her.  She was acting to prevent herself further pain.  And I think that was a heartbreaking decision for her.  It's possible that I may have broken her heart before she broke mine.

I think it is a very important idea to keep in mind when we consider our ex returning to the relationship or even wanting to contact us again.  If we do want further contact, it would be wise to reflect on how we could have a healthier relationship with them.  And that means that we must change.  We were doing something wrong.  Something that was hurting them, no matter how much we may have never intended it to do so.  It may be very hard to see that at first - it sure was for me - but we were.  Learning about the disorder and the tools for communicating with a pwBPD would be a very worthwhile investment if we want to have continued contact.

[KeepOnGoing]

Thank you all for this discussion. So helpful today. My ex friend asked me if I wanted to get together. We did. My father died this past year after she went silent. During our recent visit she asked me if I was with my dad during his passing. After explaining to her the situation she said "I'm sorry I couldn't be there for you." I was speechless. All I said was "thank you." I asked her if she wanted to say more about that and she said no. I said, "what's done is done." That's all I need to say. I'd like to know more about how I may have hurt her. I know I suffer from love addiction, and I think I scared her away. If you can point me to a piece of reading material about my part, that would be helpful. I agree that no amount of contact or arguing or trying to reason with will work. The disorder is what it is.

[cosmonaut]

Thank you all for this discussion. So helpful today. My ex friend asked me if I wanted to get together. We did. My father died this past year after she went silent. During our recent visit she asked me if I was with my dad during his passing. After explaining to her the situation she said "I'm sorry I couldn't be there for you." I was speechless. All I said was "thank you." I asked her if she wanted to say more about that and she said no. I said, "what's done is done." That's all I need to say. I'd like to know more about how I may have hurt her. I know I suffer from love addiction, and I think I scared her away. If you can point me to a piece of reading material about my part, that would be helpful. I agree that no amount of contact or arguing or trying to reason with will work. The disorder is what it is.

One of the most important things we can do is to learn the tools about how to better communicate with someone who has BPD.  These tools are actually more widely applicable than just to people with BPD - most people will respond positively to their use - but they are especially important with a pwBPD.  These tools are not intuitive and we often need to spend time practicing them before we are able to use them well.  That's something that the members here can help you with, and you can practice on those you know in everyday life too - friends, coworkers, family, etc.

It's also very helpful to learn as much as you can about the psychology of the disorder.  That will allow you to achieve a better understanding of what sort of inner experience your friend may be experiencing and give you better clues as to how she is feeling and how she may react.  You can get started by reading up on the site or dig even deeper by checking out the book list.

The hardest of all is the insight into our own behavior.  This is where the forum most shines because you can get immediate feedback from members based on what you want to share.  The senior members often have some very sage advice that can help us to better understand our role and what harmful or unhealthy behaviors we may be engaging in.  Often we don't realize that we are doing something wrong until it is pointed out to us.  So, sharing here can be very helpful.  This post can be helpful in kick starting this examination of our role.

Keep posting.  We're here for you.

[DreamGirl]

Although to make it clear I'm trying to detach. Though i do want her to return. Just have no expectations that she ever will. Everything I've done to try to save things has been rejected.  I'm in day three of not texting her. Although she may do counseling on her own and we've talked about a couple concerts coming up.  But again I have no illusions or am trying not to about her.  That's why I am slowly trying to detach.

I have a really good friend who went through a divorce a while back. She knew she was done with the marriage but felt like she owed him (and her family) marriage counseling. So they went and after several sessions, her husband (and the counselor) made the realization that the relationship was just spent. There was no common ground to be found. He asked her "why even go to marriage counseling?" She responded simply that she was just "waiting for you to catch up".

I think sometimes in relationships that are ending, one person has already spent the time grieving in it and the other person just isn't ready yet. When it came to my friend, she had the grace to be patient with the other person as it came to end. Not everyone has the ability to do that. (I certainly didn't in my former marriage due to my immaturity and it really, really hurt my ex-husband). A pwBPD will most definitely struggle, especially when it comes to being able to get past their own feelings. Not a judgment, just a statement.

Scopikaz, it is really hard loving someone who is ready to move on... .and you're right there's not a way to control the outcome. You have to grieve it at your own pace and on your own timeline. It's OK to still love her and want her to come back. It's OK to realize that it may never happen. I also understand that cutting it off at the knees doesn't work for all of us. Even in my own divorce, knowing I didn't want to be his wife, I still cared about what happened to him. He was still an important fixture in my life, I just had to learn to adjust to not having him in my life in a day to day capacity. We adjusted.

If you were to attend the concert(s) together --- what might happen? Are you OK with being friends?

[Scopikaz]

First regarding counseling it's not for us as s couple. But for her as an individual. She's been through (most self inflicted) a lot of loss in life etc. and Christmas was hard on her since her ex wouldn't let her see her children. I'm hoping it will help her in some small way.

As far as the concerts I'm trying to do no or very low contact now. So by time of first concert at end of month, I hope to be In a better place.

I hope to be more than friends again one day. But realize she's got to come to that decision on her own

And or it has to be gods will.

[joeramabeme]

How often my trying to fix things was controlling and hurtful.  In doing that analysis, I came to realize that my ex, rather than having some completely irrational breakdown, was making a rational decision in her leaving me.  She really was doing what was best for her.  She was acting to prevent herself further pain.  And I think that was a heartbreaking decision for her.  It's possible that I may have broken her heart before she broke mine.

If we do want further contact, it would be wise to reflect on how we could have a healthier relationship with them.  And that means that we must change.  We were doing something wrong.  Something that was hurting them, no matter how much we may have never intended it to do so. 

Cosmonaut, these are very salient points and though I am not at the recovery place you seem to be at - I am getting to these same conclusions.  But I am at a loss for being able to digest this.  It feels like these words are contradictory and live at the heart of my non-disorder. 

My control was trying to get her to see how she was hurting me which in turn hurt her and I suspect lead to her conclusion that I could not love and accept her as she is.

Where is the line between being loving and caring about our pwBPD and self preservation?  It is a catch-22; like eating your favorite food of all time prepared by one of the worlds best chefs and yet it has small chards of glass in it.

When I read your post I am left with a confused feeling of not knowing if I am out of line for not wanting to chew glass or if they are out of line for putting it in there; intentional or not.  And so the game is either you get no favorite food or eat glass.  THe logical part of me says why cant we eat without glass - stop putting it in the meal.

?

[divina]

I hate to admit it because I'm the supply, but he comes back when his other supply runs low.  :'(

[divina]

Many times I've pleaded and it worked, but I have the experience that it only works as long as she's willing to respond to everything you say and write. When they pull the plug and start ignoring you, to me it often feels like them trying to prove a point, prove how strong they are and how powerful they are in being able to ignore you without a problem. They know you're there, they read what you're writing. But the more you do, the easier it becomes for them because they know you'll be there when they decide to come back (if they want to come back).[.quote]

Ignoring them completely, is the worst thing you could do people like these. But then again, they just as well could move on and forget you. There's no predicting people with BPD.

My guy started the silent treatment on me and I decided to stop trying to reach out to not give him a reward for doing it.  He did post one of his works on facebook and I commented on its beauty. he responded. But other than that, there has been no effort on my part, and he hasn't tried to break the gulf. It is ignoring them when they implemented the ST?