Communication

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

That being said his marital status is now totally unacceptable to me.

No, it's acceptable to you. Because you're staying. At least do not fool yourself into thinking that you're taking a stand against it. If you want to stay despite everything - it's up to you. But do not trick yourself into thinking that your situation is different from what it is. Either accept it as it is and stay, and accept yourself for making that choice, whether it be self-destructive or not. Or do not accept it and leave it behind.

Fooling yourself into thinking that you are someone who you're not, or tricking yourself into thinking that your situtation is not as bad as it is, is SURE to get you a BUNCH of mental and physical health problems.

[LonelyChild]

That being said his marital status is now totally unacceptable to me.

No, it's acceptable to you. Because you're staying. At least do not fool yourself into thinking that you're taking a stand against it. If you want to stay despite everything - it's up to you. But do not trick yourself into thinking that your situation is different from what it is. Either accept it as it is and stay, and accept yourself for making that choice, whether it be self-destructive or not. Or do not accept it and leave it behind.

Fooling yourself into thinking that you are someone who you're not, or tricking yourself into thinking that your situtation is not as bad as it is, is SURE to get you a BUNCH of mental and physical health problems.

[unicorn2014]

That being said his marital status is now totally unacceptable to me.

No, it's acceptable to you. Because you're staying. At least do not fool yourself into thinking that you're taking a stand against it. If you want to stay despite everything - it's up to you. But do not trick yourself into thinking that your situation is different from what it is. Either accept it as it is and stay, and accept yourself for making that choice, whether it be self-destructive or not. Or do not accept it and leave it behind.

Fooling yourself into thinking that you are someone who you're not, or tricking yourself into thinking that your situtation is not as bad as it is, is SURE to get you a BUNCH of mental and physical health problems.

LC, do you know that I have made changes in my relationship? I have taken a step back. I have given myself some space.

I have only facetimed twice since the end of December, I only call him once or twice a day. I have put my relationship on hold until he shows me he filed. He knows this. I am giving him an opportunity to correct his mistake .

[LonelyChild]

That being said his marital status is now totally unacceptable to me.

No, it's acceptable to you. Because you're staying. At least do not fool yourself into thinking that you're taking a stand against it. If you want to stay despite everything - it's up to you. But do not trick yourself into thinking that your situation is different from what it is. Either accept it as it is and stay, and accept yourself for making that choice, whether it be self-destructive or not. Or do not accept it and leave it behind.

Fooling yourself into thinking that you are someone who you're not, or tricking yourself into thinking that your situtation is not as bad as it is, is SURE to get you a BUNCH of mental and physical health problems.

LC, do you know that I have made changes in my relationship? I have taken a step back. I have given myself some space.

I have only facetimed twice since the end of December, I only call him once or twice a day. I have put my relationship on hold until he shows me he filed. He knows this. I am giving him an opportunity to correct his mistake .

Good job! :-) I'm only challenging you with your best in mind. You seem to have taken some good steps back, and I'm glad to hear that. Have you discussed some kind of deadline for the divorce?

[unicorn2014]

Lonely child wrote

Good job! :-) I'm only challenging you with your best in mind. You seem to have taken some good steps back, and I'm glad to hear that. Have you discussed some kind of deadline for the divorce?

Challenge away.

He says he will be filing at the end of the week.

Based on his behavior last night I have pulled back even more and told him to contact me when he has a case number for his divorce.

He claims that once he files his lawyer says he will be divorced in 2 months.

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I wasn't prepared for him to give me the silent treatment this morning as previously we were doing morning and evening check ins.

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I'm starting to look critically at things he's told me such it was his wife's fault that she didn't act like a wife towards him. He claims she emotionally abandoned him after a devastating accident that left him temporarily crippled.

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I'm not feeling very good emotionally these days however I am listening to what you and others are saying to me.

Thank you for the feedback.

[Daniell85]

do you know why he decided to give you silent treatment? did that resolve itself now?

[unicorn2014]

do you know why he decided to give you silent treatment? did that resolve itself now?

Yes it had to do with last night, he had told me good night in text and then told me he would call my d15 later, per our agreement. That really upset me and I told him if he was not going to call me after he called my d15 then I didn't want him to call my d15. My d15 had a mental health assessment today and they had agreed he would call her at 8 to talk about it. I broke the silence this morning when I noticed he hadn't texted me. I wish I hadn't done that, but like I said previously I don't do ST.

Anyways we worked it out. He claimed that he was going to call me after he called my d15. I deleted the texts or else I would have pointed out to him what he said.

I decided to let it go as it is so close to the end here, supposedly he is calling his lawyer on Friday to set the filing in motion and he said she said it would turn around in a day or two.

One of the things I have been wrestling with is how much can I depend on him to help me with parenting and how capable is he (or any father) for that matter.

Last night my d15 obtained my permission to go out for a walk for one hour, and then she ended up being gone for over 2 hours, and the next morning I saw she had covered up a hickey with makeup. I of course blamed my partner for not talking to her the night before and he blamed me for telling him I couldn't talk to her if he wouldn't talk to me. It was a big mess. I told him that shows him how much faith I have in him. I was also able to finally tell him I don't believe a word he says when it comes to legal matters, however in other areas he has far more credibility with me. He claims to have had legal problems his whole life, and that very might well be true.

Anyways I was able to apologize to him for blaming him for my d15's behavior last night as it wasn't his fault. I'm not used to having a partner as a parent so its still rough going at this point.

[Daniell85]

that all sounds so upsetting and confusing.

You have some push-pull here on your side. Totally understandable. I have that, too. I feel hurt and I just want to get away and hide. Then I think if I do, it will ruin everything or make it horribly worse, so I try to stick it out.

Very distressing stuff.

[unicorn2014]

Daniel, he says he didn't say he wouldn't call me after he called my d. I say he did say that and if I didn't delete the text I'd prove it to him, however I don't care enough. The bottom line is I did blame him for my d being gone longer then she said she would because I do have that much faith in him so maybe I should look at realistic parenting expectations.

In hindsight I could have said I was disappointed . He claims he didn't call my d because I told him not to and he's right, I did.

At any rate he understands how upsetting it is to me when my ex communicates with our d behind my back so he certainly doesn't want to make that mistake.

I wish I could let him give me the ST, I really do but I always go and mess it up by contacting him.

[Daniell85]

Well you would like to fix it. I have been there a lot. Silent treatment, I feel terrible, feel like darn it why are you treating me like this, or stop being hurtful to me, then I get upset and contact. Which often got me no response or more conflict. The momentary relief of saying something, anything, or telling him he was hurting me... led and sometimes still does, to him ramping up the ST and retaliating against me.


I know how it feels. Absolutely. I just got it in the face again tonight. A cartoon sent to make fun of me, tossing me out of another chat room. I don't hold it against someone for getting upset, but really, it's awfully hard to be the recipient of deliberate action that is intended to cause hurt.

It does hurt, and I am sorry all of this confusion is tapping into your core hurts. It totally sucks and it's hard to take when you are working so hard to address all of those old wounds. Best I can ever do is pull back and calm myself and think about why it got me so bad again.

[unicorn2014]

Daniell, my partner doesn't really want to give me the ST. I wish I had the strength to let him. That would totally cut down on the confusion. I may look on my iMessages on my laptop to see if the offending message is there. If it is I may save and discuss it with him in a peaceful manner at an appropriate time.

Basically what happened last night is I told him I found out the divorce laws in his state hadn't changed since 1991. There was an awkward silence and then he said he would call me later to say good night. I was fine with that. What I was not  fine with was the text barrage after. I told him if he has something more to say please call me back, don't text me.

At any rate I think I've explored every nook and cranny of that situation and I was able to tell him his word means nothing to me when it comes to legal matters. Now that we have that out in the open we can laugh about it and move on. It kinda of took the power out of it to say it out loud like that. Kinda like put your money where your mouth is.

I know some people find my sense of humor abrasive or insensitive or calloused but the relationship is still going strong after 3.75 years so I haven't scared him away yet. I know sometimes I cross the line however humor is how I deal with other people's outrageous behavior. I know I've seen other members referring to humorous remarks they've made to their BPD loved ones so I know I'm not alone in this. In fact SWOE recommends using humor.

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Your guy does sound like has a vicious streak to him. We did talk about him being more narcissistic then borderline on your other thread. My guy doesn't have that kind of visceral meanness to him, he's more vulnerable . I probably lash out more then my guy does when I'm provoked that's why I try to keep my distance when I'm upset as nothing good comes of that.

[LonelyChild]

He says he will be filing at the end of the week.

Why at the end of the week? Why not 'today' (as of when you were discussing it)?

You are putting much pressure on him. Talking about pwBPD in general - not your SO in particular - this could lead to him putting himself into some kind of accident, he hurting himself, illnesses, etc. If hasn't filed by the end of the week, what do you do?

[unicorn2014]

He says he will be filing at the end of the week.

Why at the end of the week? Why not 'today' (as of when you were discussing it)?

You are putting much pressure on him. Talking about pwBPD in general - not your SO in particular - this could lead to him putting himself into some kind of accident, he hurting himself, illnesses, etc. If hasn't filed by the end of the week, what do you do?

The end of the week was a mutually agreed upon decision that if his wife did not come forward with her share of the paperwork he was going to take care of the whole thing. If I don't have a case number by the middle of the next week I am going to go no contact until I do as we did have an agreement.

[LonelyChild]

He says he will be filing at the end of the week.

Why at the end of the week? Why not 'today' (as of when you were discussing it)?

You are putting much pressure on him. Talking about pwBPD in general - not your SO in particular - this could lead to him putting himself into some kind of accident, he hurting himself, illnesses, etc. If hasn't filed by the end of the week, what do you do?

The end of the week was a mutually agreed upon decision that if his wife did not come forward with her share of the paperwork he was going to take care of the whole thing. If I don't have a case number by the middle of the next week I am going to go no contact until I do as we did have an agreement.

Sounds good. I'm hoping he'll have a case number for you by next week then. Otherwise; stay strong until he does! :-)

[Skip]

If I don't have a case number by the middle of the next week I am going to go no contact until I do as we did have an agreement.

Here is the Catch 22.

Going no contact to encourage him to do what he said is abuse and manipulation. It is not healthy. It is not boundaries.

You have to face the real issue and deal with that. The real issue is not the divorce - its dishonesty. He has been dishonest with you and continues to be, now for years (about the engagement, married, prior court filings).  He has been dishonest with his wife - he wanted to file a dishonest bankruptcy, for one.  These are not white lies - these are major life changing lies - over and over and over again.

If your values are honesty and integrity, there is none of that here. Trying to force some type of "integrity" with silent treatment is dysfunctional and unhealthy.

There is a life changing dichotomy here that you are not facing. You say you want a family for you and your daughter based on integrity and honesty. Yet you want to bring into your family a person with a long track records of serial dishonesty.  You are willing to make this huge value concession because he provides something you value much higher than a family for you and your daughter of integrity and honesty.

All these minor conflicts and drama occupy your emotions and concerns, and divert you from the real issues. You need to either embrace a family that will be plagued with years of serial dishonesty or walk away from it.

Playing the "I'll punish the swan for not being a duck and hope it makes him a duck" game is broken thinking.

This is about you. Not him. He is what he is.

Maybe the first question to answer is, what is it about this person that is more valuable than your own values of integrity and honesty?  Why are you willing to do this? Write it down.  See how it feels.  Maybe it makes sense - maybe it doesn't. This is he first part of radical acceptance - labeling what reality is.

[unicorn2014]

Based on what skip said

Maybe the first question to answer is, what is it about this person that is more valuable than your own values of integrity and honesty?  Why are you willing to do this? Write it down.  See how it feels.  Maybe it makes sense - maybe it doesn't. This is he first part of radical acceptance - labeling what reality is.

I need to rethink things.

Here's the catch: my partner denies he's being dishonest. He maintains his lawyer was the deceptive one and says he is suing his lawyer.

In regards to having a family that values honesty: my daughter has been deceptive and lying since she was in early childhood.

That is actually why my partner is a good fit with my daughter, they are more alike then not alike. My ex partner was also deceptive and he gaslights.

[unicorn2014]

I will amend my post to say when I first asked him to show me he filed in June he accused me of attacking his integrity.

This is all very confusing to me.

I don't know if this points to work I need to do on the coping board. My mother used to accuse me of being a liar all the time yet my father said I was one of the most honest people he knew and that was a trait he could count on in me.

To be honest I don't feel like anyone I've been in a relationship has had integrity or been honest, starting with when I was 17. The very first relationship I had, which was technically statutory rape, which was with a man who was living with his girlfriend at the time .  He had a third relationship after I rejected his offer to move in with him and married that woman a year later and they're still married.

I've never had a relationship with an honest man .

My partner claims he is honest and has integrity.

[Grey Kitty]

Based on what skip said

Maybe the first question to answer is, what is it about this person that is more valuable than your own values of integrity and honesty?  Why are you willing to do this? Write it down.  See how it feels.  Maybe it makes sense - maybe it doesn't. This is he first part of radical acceptance - labeling what reality is.

I need to rethink things.

Here's the catch: my partner denies he's being dishonest. He maintains his lawyer was the deceptive one and says he is suing his lawyer.

In regards to having a family that values honesty: my daughter has been deceptive and lying since she was in early childhood.

That is actually why my partner is a good fit with my daughter, they are more alike then not alike. My ex partner was also deceptive and he gaslights.

Yes, your partner denies being dishonest. That means either A) he believes what he's saying because he lies to himself, or B) He's doubling down on the dishonesty, by first deceiving you... .then lying and telling you he isn't doing so.

Either way, he's being dishonest.

And either way, your value of honesty comes into conflict with that.

As Skip suggested, look at yourself as how to you resolve that conflict.

One other thought for you--it sounds like you have a long history of dishonest people in your life, and a long history of these people messing with your feelings/beliefs/reality regarding this. I'm not at all surprised that you are terribly confused about this!

My suggestion is to work really hard to not listen to what others (especially your partner and your FOO) say about honesty.

Deep inside you know what the truth is. You know when it is presented, you know when it is obscured or violated directly. You know when (if) you do it. You know when somebody else did it (not always at the time, but eventually you do).

BELIEVE YOURSELF.

[unicorn2014]

Deep inside you know what the truth is. You know when it is presented, you know when it is obscured or violated directly. You know when (if) you do it. You know when somebody else did it (not always at the time, but eventually you do).

BELIEVE YOURSELF.

See that's just it, what my partner is saying is plausibly true, about his first lawyer messing his divorce up and about having to sue that lawyer. That is one of those things where time will tell.

The dishonest bankruptcy, wasn't entirely dishonest either, his business was insolvent, and he was the primary shareholder, so while he wasn't personally bankrupt, his business was.

In regards to the values of integrity and honesty, I went from being accused of being dishonest, to getting involved with dishonest man after dishonest man, then I married my ex, who was/still is dishonest, and now my partner who appears he is dishonest but claims he is not, and then we have my daughter, who definitely has a problem with lying and deception.

I did write down Skip's question. I didn't write down my answer, however I did think of things like security and consistency and being present.

I'm going to be meeting with my individual therapist next week so I will definitely bring these things up in the session.

I've haven't talked much to my partner today, just for a few brief minutes this morning.

As I've said, most of my interpersonal relationships have been with people who have been dishonest to one degree or another.

[Sunfl0wer]

I quickly found the following:

Honesty means acting and speaking so as to relate things as you know or believe them to be.

Truthfulness is saying or relating things that are factually correct.

You can be honest (that is, you can speak without intent to deceive) and not be truthful. Say, for example, you had your accountant audit your company, and report that you made a profit of $1000 last month. But the accountant made a mistake--your profit was actually $945. You can say "we made a $1000 profit last month" and not be truthful, but be honest--you had no intent to deceive and were reporting what you had reason to believe was the case.

On the other hand, a truly masterful liar can lie while being absolutely truthful--that is, manipulate the context of what he says (or perhaps omit important information) in order to deceive the listener without saying anything that is not factually correct. Lying is in the intent to deceive, not in the individual statements you make.

So according to this 'definition' of lying and honesty... .

I would consider the possibility that while you may not have proof your partner is in fact lying to you... .You do have proof that he is not being truthful to you.

While I realize you likely want to give your SO the benefit of the doubt, and not label him a liar.  You do not need to call him a liar or prove he is one to analyze what is going on.  You can continue to leave that as an 'unknown' and work with what you do know:

-You have been in the dark for three years(or so) regarding your SO's marital status.

-You appear to have a greater interest/motivation in his marital dessolution than he has.

-He did not show great interest to repair loss of trust that resulted from your perception of feeling decieved, rather, he mostly defended or attacked.

The issue is not really about his marriage or not anymore. (Imo)

You have been in a relationship for plenty of time to learn the dynamics that occur when there is conflict between you two. (As well as when there is not)

Without labeling him a liar or not... .  Are you pleased with the way you and he negotiate conflicts?  Can you live with someone who appears avoidant in the face of conflict?  (Or however you actually feel he deals with conflict) Are you happy with the dynamics that you have experienced with him the time you have known him... .if you know the dynamic will continue for the next 15 years?

Thinking your dynamic with him will change 'if only he weren't married' is a tricky thought (if you have it). The way you two interact... .IS a Fact much more relevant than the truth of his marital status. 

You two are living your future relationship truth and have been.  Are you ok with that?

[unicorn2014]

Without labeling him a liar or not... .  Are you pleased with the way you and he negotiate conflicts?  Can you live with someone who appears avoidant in the face of conflict?  (Or however you actually feel he deals with conflict) Are you happy with the dynamics that you have experienced with him the time you have known him... .if you know the dynamic will continue for the next 15 years?

It is interesting you mention this because it is possible he may have traits of avoidant personality disorder, I believe one of his professionals may have mentioned this to him. It is my former therapist that identified some of his traits as borderline. If that is the case, then perhaps we are in a whole different ballpark.

You are also correct about the not wanting to call him a liar part.

I remember last September when I called my father for help with this problem and he advised me not to call my partner a liar.

I'm actually ok with where things are at right now. He is working on some serious intellectual property issues. I have minimized our amount of contact to two daily phone calls, unless a crisis comes up with my daughter . It is kind of interesting that this crisis in the relationship has allowed me to reshape it in a way that is more to my liking. I will admit I do have some trust issues myself as we are in a LDR and we are functioning on the honor system, however those may be a carry over from my last relationship where my ex did cheat on me prior to getting married and who never respected my boundaries at any point during the relationship.

Thinking your dynamic with him will change 'if only he weren't married' is a tricky thought (if you have it). The way you two interact... .IS a Fact much more relevant than the truth of his marital status. 

I actually don't think at all. What will change is I can put my engagement ring back on and change my relationship status from its complicated to engaged. I will be able to talk openly about my relationship in my community without feeling shame when he is divorced.

You two are living your future relationship truth and have been.  Are you ok with that?

I know that right now what I am dealing with is all baggage from his past. I do know and believe that his wife ran their business into the ground. I do know and believe that he had previously delegated a whole lot of stuff in his life which all came undone when he separated from his wife and closed his business.


His wife is a dishonest person. She lied to me when she first met me. She impersonated him. Who's to say that a lot of the mess in his life is not from her dishonesty? If they're both dishonest no wonder things are such a mess.

For me with my exacting standard of honesty I have to be very careful. Very few people can measure up to it. I remember recently I caught my father in a dishonest act and I was demoralized. I didn't know my father was capable of such things and when I confronted him about it he brushed it off. What makes things even more complicated is my father told me my  mother was a stickler for honesty, yet she called me a liar while he told me I was one of the most honest people he had ever met. All very confusing to me. Sometimes I wish I didn't have this high standard of honesty.

My partner knew when he met me that I had this high standard of honesty and he knew he had to be very careful. He knew I was straight ahead and wouldn't put up with lies.

I think what's happening here are two worlds are colliding, his world and my world, however he is taking his world apart so he can come join me in my world.

I think that if I am able to stand by my values that things are going to be ok.

[LonelyChild]

I think that if I am able to stand by my values that things are going to be ok.

Reading your posts, I can't help but feel that, while you've understood the problem on an intellectual level, you're not quite there yet on the emotional level. It feels as though you're in conflict with yourself; a constant battle between intellect and emotions.

You're not standing by your values, because you're co-dependendt on a man who's been continually dishonest towards you. As for the lawyer screwing up the divorce filing; this is TRIVIAL to verify. Call the lawyer!

Yes, I know. Your SO won't allow you to do it. Given your history with him; what makes you trust him on this? Given your history with dishonest people - you NEED to turn to introspection and see WHY and HOW you are creating this environment for yourself.

[Skip]

Playing the "I'll punish the swan for not being a duck and hope it makes him a duck" game is broken thinking.

This is about you. Not him. He is what he is.

Maybe the first question to answer is, what is it about this person that is more valuable than your own values of integrity and honesty?  Why are you willing to do this? Write it down.  See how it feels.  Maybe it makes sense - maybe it doesn't. This is he first part of radical acceptance - labeling what reality is.

You're response to this question is interesting. Basically you're saying "what my partner is saying is plausibly true", "I don't feel like anyone I've been in a relationship has had integrity or been honest", 'my daughter has been deceptive and lying since she was in early childhood. That is actually why my partner is a good fit with my daughter, they are more alike then not alike'

Doesn't this sound to you like you are clearly saying that the dishonesty is OK, normal, and fitting for you?

All very confusing to me. Sometimes I wish I didn't have this high standard of honesty.

My partner knew when he met me that I had this high standard of honesty and he knew he had to be very careful. He knew I was straight ahead and wouldn't put up with lies.

I think what's happening here are two worlds are colliding, his world and my world, however he is taking his world apart so he can come join me in my world.

Think about what you are saying here.

When we discuss values/boundaries, the first thing we have to do is walk the talk ourselves.  If we don't, no one will believe we hold a value.

Its a choice to accept a basically dishonest partner into your life. You are making that choice.  Its also a choice to adopt dysfunctional and manipulative ways to try and control him. You have made that choice. There is no effort on either side to move closer to truthfulness - just the opposite. This is a formula for a consistently very unstable partnership.

How do we help you in this?  You have hundreds of responses trying to steer you into more healthy territory - not necessarily leaving him, but confronting the dishonesty and insisting on coming clean, and dropping the emotional abuse - but in the end, dysfunctional life skills are ok with you. 

You may be moving closer to divorce (may), but you are not moving closer to "healthy".

[flourdust]

You may be moving closer to divorce (may), but you are not moving closer to "healthy".

What is particularly alarming to me is that this has all been happening in an LDR. Many, many, many posts about lying, inappropriate texting, hang-ups, silent treatment, and so on.

At least in an LDR, unicorn has a buffer -- she can not take calls, try to ignore texts, turn off devices. Let's assume unicorn's boyfriend gets the divorce and moves to her city. None of these communication problems are going to get any easier. If anything, they'll get worse, because the buffer of distance (and the ability to essentially turn him off) will be gone. Imagine dealing with all of this when you can't just ignore him, because he's in your face.

[unicorn2014]

Skip wrote

Its a choice to accept a basically dishonest partner into your life. You are making that choice.  Its also a choice to adopt dysfunctional and manipulative ways to try and control him. You have made that choice. There is no effort on either side to move closer to truthfulness - just the opposite. This is a formula for a consistently very unstable partnership.

How do we help you in this?  You have hundreds of responses trying to steer you into more healthy territory - not necessarily leaving him, but confronting the dishonesty and insisting on coming clean, and dropping the emotional abuse - but in the end, dysfunctional life skills are ok with you

I am trying to move closer to truthfulness .

What more can I do to confront the dishonesty?

I've told you I've confronted it every step of the way.

What more can I do to insist on coming clean?

I feel like there is something I am failing to communicate here. I have clearly confronted my partner and I've said as much .

What is more healthy territory?

I don't understand how you can believe there is no effort to come closer to truthfulness.

What do I need to say to convince you otherwise?

I need help here.

[unicorn2014]

Skip wrote

Doesn't this sound to you like you are clearly saying that the dishonesty is OK, normal, and fitting for you?

No what I am saying is it's very difficult to cure my child of her lies and deception when everyone around me is engaged in the same behavior and this was before I met my partner.

What I am trying to say is there are very few people in my life with my standard of honesty, maybe one, and that would be my property manager.

Even if I were to leave my partner I would still have to deal with my child.

Dishonesty is neither ok nor fitting for me.

I am open to suggestion here.

I feel like there is something I am failing to communicate here but I don't know what it is.

[unicorn2014]

Lonely child, I am working on it. I think what I was trying to say is I don't feel comfortable holding another adult  up to my standard. I've already told my partner I don't believe a word he says when it comes to legal matters.

I won't be so quick to label myself as codependent . I have put a lot of time and energy into recovery, therapy and religion. I don't want to JADE but I think you might be judging me a bit hastily.

[unicorn2014]

Flour dust, I think we've moved beyond communication problems and now we're dealing with boundary problems.

Apparently I've given everyone the idea I'm ok with dishonesty and I'm just passively going along with it.

I've confronted my partner every time I've caught him in a lie.

I can accept the fact that he's a dishonest person.

What is hard for me to accept is that he says he's not.

He did say he was murky when I first met him and that he knew that wouldn't fly with me.

I'm a bit confused by how people are responding to me.

[LonelyChild]

What I am trying to say is there are very few people in my life with my standard of honesty, maybe one, and that would be my property manager.

I don't feel comfortable holding another adult  up to my standard. I've already told my partner I don't believe a word he says when it comes to legal matters.

Apparently I've given everyone the idea I'm ok with dishonesty and I'm just passively going along with it.

I've confronted my partner every time I've caught him in a lie.

I can accept the fact that he's a dishonest person.

What is hard for me to accept is that he says he's not.

This feels very contradictory to me.

"Very few people in my life with my standard of honesty."

"Almost everyone in my life has been a liar."

"I don't feel comfortable applying my standard of honesty to adults."

And even worse:

"I can accept that he's a liar."

"I can't accept that he lies about being honest."

A liar would obviously not be honest about lying - that defeats the entire purpose of lying.

You either accept that he's a liar (which you have MORE than enough proof of!) and you go from there; do you want a(nother) liar in your life, or do you get rid of him? Or, you keep denying it to yourself and pretend that he's someone he's not, become co-dependent and mentally ill yourself.

I'm not saying this to be mean (and it's - of course - not as binary as I put it above), but these are things you need to deal with.

Skip had a very good point when he said NC to encourage divorce is abuse. It's not a healthy relationship. What if he goes through with the divorce, and then another problems comes around? Do you threaten with NC again?

I think you should focus more on yourself; you give him your best, expect that he does the same to you, and if he doesn't, move on.

[flourdust]

Flour dust, I think we've moved beyond communication problems and now we're dealing with boundary problems.

Apparently I've given everyone the idea I'm ok with dishonesty and I'm just passively going along with it.

I've confronted my partner every time I've caught him in a lie.

I can accept the fact that he's a dishonest person.

What is hard for me to accept is that he says he's not.

Yeah, I get that. I just don't know how you build a relationship on it. You can't have any trust in anything he says. What's a relationship without trust?

[unicorn2014]

A liar would obviously not be honest about lying - that defeats the entire purpose of lying.

How would I know how a liar behaves if I am not one myself?

You either accept that he's a liar (which you have MORE than enough proof of!) and you go from there; do you want a(nother) liar in your life, or do you get rid of him? Or, you keep denying it to yourself and pretend that he's someone he's not, become co-dependent and mentally ill yourself.

I'm fine with accepting he's a liar because not only is he a liar, he is very helpful with my daughter, and I guess that is what I value more then integrity and honesty. I also know that if I ever had a financial or interpersonal problem I could go to him for help, so he also provides security, which I must value over integrity and honesty. So that's two things he provides: coparenting and security.

I'm not saying this to be mean (and it's - of course - not as binary as I put it above), but these are things you need to deal with.

I know you are not being mean and I am trying to follow your advice. I've stalled out in my 10th step inventory in ACA so I think that will help, I also have had a hard time practicing my religion lately due to having to deal with my daughter. I'm trying to read this book called the passionate marriage as part of my personal inventory work and I haven't been able to due to ongoing crisis with my daughter. What I am trying to say is my life is all convoluted and backwards, kind of like a Fringe episode where the alternate universe collided with this one. I've already been through one marriage and yet I'm having to read about marriage all over again. That's just example of how confused things are in my own life.

Skip had a very good point when he said NC to encourage divorce is abuse. It's not a healthy relationship. What if he goes through with the divorce, and then another problems comes around? Do you threaten with NC again?

I agreed and I'm not going to do that.

I think you should focus more on yourself; you give him your best, expect that he does the same to you, and if he doesn't, move on.

I agree with that as well, which I why I alluded to my 10th step inventory, my religious practice, my personal inventory reading. I am trying. You all have to remember that I am also dealing with an ongoing crisis with my 15 year old. Anyone that can provide help with that is going to be an asset to me. He is the first man I met that was both willing and able to step in with my daughter is going to be an asset with me. My partner believe my daughter is an NT like himself and that he gets her.

I'll tell everyone a little story.

I remember the first time my partner came to see me, and I have to be honest right now I'm not comfortable calling him my partner because of the current conversation however that is what he is, he took my daughter and I out to dinner. We went and met my daughter at her after school program to pick her up. We were on foot. I insisted that my daughter cross the street where there was a beeping sign for walkers however she insisted on walking down to the other corner and crossing the street there which was less safe due to right turning traffic. She was 12 at the time. My partner told me not to worry, she'd make it to the restaurant, and he was right, she did.

My partner and I have an interesting dichotomy in our approach to parenting. He's more liberal at the front end and more conservative at the back end. I'm the opposite.

Does any of this make sense?

One of my former therapists said it would be great if I could have a partner for her high school years . I know my partner is not perfect but so far he has been the most active and involved and helpful in my daughter's life.