Can't believe I'm doing this

[Scopikaz]

Yes. I keep saying I'm trying to detach. But a few weeks ago we made plans for a couple concerts and musical. First concert was this past weekend. We had a great time actually. Dinner then concert.

The night before she texted me and told me she's struggling financially.  Her sons 16th bday is this weekend. He lives a state away.  She wants to go see him. Overnight trip. But she doesn't have enough money for trip and gifts and to pay the girl she's living with for what little part of rent she pays her.

First she asked me to purchase a refrigerator she is still storing in my garage.  I said no to that.  But of course I offered to help her out for her son of course.  She offered for me to go along too.  Which I told her no need to unless she really wants me to.  She said she did.

She's made it clear that she doesn't want to get back together. Which I know I should be thankful.   But in truth I want to.  Why I don't know.

So I said why don't we go up a day or two early and make a trip out of it. So now it's a four day weekend with her. An excursion to a local attraction four hours away. Then to see her son

What I would like to have done is told her to quit frequenting the bars.  Or to ask one of her new bar friends to help her out in her hour of need.

Instead it's morphed into a four day weekend with me footing bill no doubt.

Ugh. Why?  I'm the crazy one.

And I know when we get back it'll be like I never existed again. Like we never went. 

I keep saying maybe it's all for a higher purpose or plan I don't know about.  Maybe it is

Maybe it's to get me to realize just how much time I've wasted. I don't know.

[Lonely_Astro]

Detaching is a process, it's hard.  I slipped up a couple of weeks ago and talked with J.  It brought me more pain and she did (in my opinion) try to manipulate me.  Not back into a r/s, per se, but she was on the fringe of it.  After a few days of talking to her that ended each day with her ST-ing me, I realized she was playing me again.  I'm not playing this game with her.

I tell you that because I have followed your story pretty much since its inception.  I (we) can't tell you what's right for you in the end, but I can tell you as an outsider that this girl is bad news.  She agrees to do things with you only when you're offering some sort of financial benefit to her.  The concert, for example.  That has since moved to a couple of concerts, a musical, and now a 4 day trip to see her son... .all on your dime. 

I'll put this as gently as possible, so please forgive me if it comes off as brash, but she's basically making you her "sugar daddy".  I'm not meaning that in a purely sexual benefiting kind of way, I'm saying that as in you pay for her life while she does what she wants otherwise.  We go through many roles with our BPDs as they go through the play they call their life, you my friend have been recast from lover to dad.  Think about that.  I don't know if you two are intimate together or not, it's not my business to know, but if you are that only seems to clouding your judgement. 

Ultimately, you have to decide what's right for you.  One thing is certain, however.  That girl you "knew" and loved is gone.  Trust me, I know.  I've two bites at the apple, spread over 4 years.  J wasn't any different at the of this go around as she was last time, even though I was led to believe otherwise.

You have 2 options.  1) tell her that you've changed your mind and her financial situation isn't your problem, cut ties, and start to heal.  It'll hurt like hell, short term pain for long term gain. 2) start out option #1 but tell her if she doesn't have the money to buy gifts, I'm sure her son will understand and just be happy to see his mom.    Whether you want to offer to go with her or not at that point is up to you.  You have to decide what you want.

The third option is to sit down with her and directly ask if she wants a romantic r/s with you.  If she dances around it, then you know how much she's using you.  If she says yes, you're back on the roller coaster again until you decide you've had enough.

My advice for YOUR well being is to go #1.  It's painful, but not as painful as staying in an abusive r/s.

[Scopikaz]

No. She's actually been "honest".  She says she doesn't see getting back together because it "hurts" too much because I broke her heart.  I had texted a former girlfriend six months before she left and lied about it. It was wrong.  But for six months after that my gf kept telling me she loved me, helped paint my house, and treated me well in every aspect.  So it's hard to make the leap that you were so heartbroken. 

But yes. The train is quickly coming to an end. Unfortunately I offered all of these. She didn't even ask about the four day part.  That was sadly me And my suggestion.  I'm sure we will have a good time and all.  She just asked if I would go with her on the trip.  Which technically only needs to be 3 days. 

And the Concerts and musical (musical is only 5 per ticket). Although we will do a small dinner too.  But I offered those as well.

So while she's not the one asking. I've offered.  But the concert in early March will be the last I offer or hopefully last I make contact. I'm trying to mentally psych myself up for that.  Between these events too I'm going to try to keep contact at a minimum to make that easier

I know I need to move on and I intend to.  I hope as more unfolds you'll continue to read and chime in. I really do appreciate it.

[Infern0]

You want her back right?

You have a 4 day trip planned with her

If it was me i'd be working out how i can make something happen on this trip, just saying.

[Scopikaz]

I do but I don't. I want her back normal. Healthy. If she will go to a counselor. I want her back for the right reasons.  Not for the wrong ones.  I want her back of its Gods will honestly.  If not then I don't.  I think she's only going because as was pointed out its in her best interest.  Because of her need to See her son. I'm just a vehicle so to speak to get her there (though we are driving her car ).  Anyhow. I want her back but not coerced or forced or because she's desperate.  I want it to be her decision. For the right reasons.  But I don't know she's capable of that.  I think she lived a normal life with me. But now she's enjoying the single independent bar life.  With all of the attention and non judging and acceptance that goes with that. And the options and choices.

But as I keep thinking or saying. That seems so empty and unfulfilling to me.  Maybe it's not for her. Maybe that's who she really is. Maybe she loves that life. 

[C.Stein]

Anyhow. I want her back but not coerced or forced or because she's desperate.  I want it to be her decision. For the right reasons.  But I don't know she's capable of that.  I think she lived a normal life with me. But now she's enjoying the single independent bar life.  With all of the attention and non judging and acceptance that goes with that. And the options and choices.

I believe the question you have to ask yourself is can she sustain a healthy relationship?  Can you consistently rely on her?  Can she provide permanence for you?

These are questions any one of us needs to ask when considering jumping back into the fire.

If these are things you want from a relationship and the answer to any of those questions is not a solid yes then perhaps the best thing for you to do is take a step back and ask yourself what the f**k am I doing?

[Lonely_Astro]

No. She's actually been "honest".  She says she doesn't see getting back together because it "hurts" too much because I broke her heart.

But, is she really being honest?  I mean, she claims she doesn't want you back because you broke her heart but when it's advantageous to her, she's willing to go on dates with you.  Friends go out, sure, but its mutual.  You pay for everything (whether you're offering or not is irrelevant).

When was the last time she called you first and asked you to go to X, Y, or Z her treat?  I'm guessing never.  Mentally ill or not, that's using someone and not being a friend (at the very least).  Plus, it's confusing to you (does she really want to get back with you?  Is she just using you?). 

I do but I don't. I want her back normal. Healthy. If she will go to a counselor. I want her back for the right reasons.  Not for the wrong ones.  I want her back of its Gods will honestly.  If not then I don't.  I think she's only going because as was pointed out its in her best interest.  Because of her need to See her son. I'm just a vehicle so to speak to get her there (though we are driving her car ).  Anyhow. I want her back but not coerced or forced or because she's desperate.  I want it to be her decision. For the right reasons.  But I don't know she's capable of that.  I think she lived a normal life with me. But now she's enjoying the single independent bar life.  With all of the attention and non judging and acceptance that goes with that. And the options and choices.

But as I keep thinking or saying. That seems so empty and unfulfilling to me.  Maybe it's not for her. Maybe that's who she really is. Maybe she loves that life. 

What's "normal"?  If you go back to your earlier postings, you'll see that her life hasn't ever been calm really.  It seems like she's never had a stable r/s for any amount of time.  You said you want her back "for the right reasons".  What do you mean?  As I have said before, if she is BP, it will take years (at the very least) before any noticeable result happens and thats if it happens at all.  DBT is the only therapy that has shown promising results in treating BPD and not just any counselor will do.  They are specialized in DBT for a reason.

As far as wondering who she is, the short answer is: she's all of those 'people' you've seen.  BPDs have no solid sense of self.  They morph and change as their feelings morph and change.  J, for example, would often say she loved sitting at home on the weekends with a good book.  The truth was she never was at home reading on the weekends, she was always out doing something with someone.  Then she would complain about being out all the time, but if I mentioned just staying home, she'd get mad at me for saying that.  Do you see the paradox?  She was both: party girl and stay home girl.  It just depended on how she felt she would be perceived in the present company that formed who she was.

While 'normal' is subjective, on reflection I see that I never had 'normal' with J.  It seemed 'normal' at the time but it was just like 'her': a mirage.  While she appeared to be the girl who was happy on the couch with me, she was also making other plans with other guys while she was sitting on the couch with me... .all the while telling me she was arguing with her mom (etc etc) to keep my suspicion down as she kept texting.  You never truly know them, ever.  There's always something below the surface.

And here's the kicker to my story: J is diagnosed, on meds, and (allegedly) in DBT.  So, in essence, I had the trifecta of success, right?  Wrong.  It didn't make a bit of difference.  She lied to me constantly, used me for her own needs, cheated on me repeatedly, and all the while led me to believe she was "getting better" and planning a future life with me.  Oh, and blamed the rupture of our r/s on me because I wouldn't tolerate the double standards anymore.

Let me ask you, Scopikaz, what is your endgame here?  What I mean is, what do you hope to accomplish by staying in contact with her?  By taking her on trips and musicals and dinner?  If you want away from her, why don't you just pull away?  Is it because you (secretly) want her to have the "ah ha!" moment, regulate, and live happily ever after with you?  These questions are questions I have asked myself.  I considered trying to make it work with J.  At the end of December, when I said I was going to walk away for my own health, I had a moment where I wasn't going to do that.  I had a moment where I was going to say it didn't matter, I loved her, and I was going to stay in limbo for as long as it took because the end would justify the means.  I thought maybe I was at fault, that I had made poor decisions, and if I could just understand what she goes through more, I could be better.  I could be successful.  The truth is, none of what I did mattered.  I was just a face to fill a void for her... .thats it.  When I was no longer useful, she discarded me.  As far as I can tell, she's been to 2 other guys since December.

What did it for me was when she had a dozen roses delivered to her work.  I knew then that 2015 was a waste of my life with her.  I didn't count at all.  I don't know if I ever did, honestly.  She simply became not worth my time anymore.  It hurt like hell because she was real to me the whole year.  The r/s was real.  But all my hopes, dreams, and goals were shattered when I saw those roses.  It was a moment of sobriety.  After all, I didn't expect her to wait for me, heck no, but I also didn't expect roses within less than a month of us breaking it off.  If I had meant anything to her, anything at all, she could've taken a couple of weeks to see what was going to happen with me but she didn't.  I also suspect that the whole time she was trying to 'keep me', she was busy cultivating.  After all, one or all of us had to sprout, right?

Please think long and hard about what you're doing.  Think about whether or not its healthy for you to keep trying to be her 'friend'.  I thought I could do that, too, at the very least.  But, friendship requires love, trust, and respect.  J has none of those things for me and I suspect your ex has none of those for you.

Detaching sucks, I know.  But going NC is the only way you'll get clarity.  I am roughly 2 weeks NC (even though we work together and I had a slip up after a previous 2 week NC bout) and while I miss her companionship from time to time and I wonder how she could discard me so easily, I know that its day by day, step by step to recovery from her.  Good luck, God speed.

[Rmbrworst]

I hate to say it to you like this but ... .she's just using you.

You are being the biggest supply ever.  You're paying for everything she wants and she gets to stay completely no strings.

I feel your eyes will not open to this until you take a very long stint of no contact.  If someone tells me they don't want to be with me, I would be crazy to put anymore effort into it.  I feel like you're not acting like you would if you took the time to reflect and see how this behavior isn't healthy.

You deserve someone who will walk alongside you, not someone who uses you until you're sucked dry emotionally and financially.

I gave my exBPD everything. The last words I said to you him ... .

"I gave you my time, my body, all of my money.  I did it because I loved you.  I can't let you keep destroying me like this."

He said "I'm sorry.", as he was picking up his Christmas gifts I bought for him, and walked out the door, never to be seen again.  Later I received a phone call from his ex boyfriend who said they had been together the whole time.

My point is,  this guy used me until I had nothing left to give.  When he found out I was onto his games and refused to play them, he discarded me.

I guarantee if you cut yourself off and stop supplying your BPD, you will eventually be dropped.  Let me also say, being discarded and dropped is probably for the better. Do you want to continue being this persons b*tch?

I'm saying it bluntly because I think you need to hear it this way.  Why are you giving yourself to someone who has said they don't want you?  If you're a kind, caring, giving person, save that beautiful part of yourself for someone who can give you their mind, body, and heart in return.

[Lonely_Astro]

I hate to say it to you like this but ... .she's just using you.

You are being the biggest supply ever.  You're paying for everything she wants and she gets to stay completely no strings.

I feel your eyes will not open to this until you take a very long stint of no contact.  If someone tells me they don't want to be with me, I would be crazy to put anymore effort into it.  I feel like you're not acting like you would if you took the time to reflect and see how this behavior isn't healthy.

You deserve someone who will walk alongside you, not someone who uses you until you're sucked dry emotionally and financially.

I gave my exBPD everything. The last words I said to you him ... .

"I gave you my time, my body, all of my money.  I did it because I loved you.  I can't let you keep destroying me like this."

He said "I'm sorry.", as he was picking up his Christmas gifts I bought for him, and walked out the door, never to be seen again.  Later I received a phone call from his ex boyfriend who said they had been together the whole time.

My point is,  this guy used me until I had nothing left to give.  When he found out I was onto his games and refused to play them, he discarded me.

I guarantee if you cut yourself off and stop supplying your BPD, you will eventually be dropped.  Let me also say, being discarded and dropped is probably for the better. Do you want to continue being this persons b*tch?

I'm saying it bluntly because I think you need to hear it this way.  Why are you giving yourself to someone who has said they don't want you?  If you're a kind, caring, giving person, save that beautiful part of yourself for someone who can give you their mind, body, and heart in return.

Beautifully said.

You know what I started hearing when J would say "I'm sorry" to me?  "I'm sorry... .I got caught and can't continue to use you this way, after all, it's all about me anyway."

Did you ever get a gift from your ex?  J bought me a few things during our time together.  I have still yet to hear the end of it.  Just wondering if this was a common thing or not.

[Rmbrworst]

He bought me a small $20 gift for Christmas.  My gifts were about $600 total.

He left me the day after Christmas to go back to his "ex".  I handed his gift back to him and said "I can't keep this here, the reminder of you is too painful."

He put it in his bag along with the expensive gifts I got him.  He took it all with him when he left.

Anyway.  Short version, he bought me a small gift once, and sometimes he would pay for dinner now and again.  I agree that his "I'm sorry" was "I'm sorry I got caught."

He said he cared about me, but actions speak louder than words.  That's my new mantra.  He said he loved me and cared for me and I was the most important person in his life, but he sure as hell didn't act like it.  Someone who loves you doesn't lie, cheat, and discard. 

[Lonely_Astro]

He bought me a small $20 gift for Christmas.  My gifts were about $600 total.

He left me the day after Christmas to go back to his "ex".  I handed his gift back to him and said "I can't keep this here, the reminder of you is too painful."

He put it in his bag along with the expensive gifts I got him.  He took it all with him when he left.

Anyway.  Short version, he bought me a small gift once, and sometimes he would pay for dinner now and again.  I agree that his "I'm sorry" was "I'm sorry I got caught."

He said he cared about me, but actions speak louder than words.  That's my new mantra.  He said he loved me and cared for me and I was the most important person in his life, but he sure as hell didn't act like it.  Someone who loves you doesn't lie, cheat, and discard. 

J bought me lunch on a regular basis.  She would refuse to let me buy lunch and would get upset if I did (but she would complain about buying lunch all the time).  She also bought me some clothes and was upset that I wanted as cheap as could be bought clothes (I am not materialistic, at all).  The most expensive thing she bought me was a kindle.  I have never heard the end of the kindle.  She was always going on and on about how expensive it was and always was asking me if I was reading it.  I, at one point, offered to give it back because she was so focused on how much she had spent.  She got mad at me for that.  Keep in mind, she'd spend $500 on a pair of boots, but my kindle was just a huge amount to spend on a gift (even though she bought her dad a Yeti cooler for christmas and so on).  It made me feel like crap for getting anything from her, ever. 

I was just wondering if there was a correlation on gift buying with pwBPD vs. getting gifts.  I had bought J several sentimental gifts.  She got mad that I didn't buy her a gift for her birthday, even though we had planned a weekend getaway a couple of weeks after her birthday (and she had told me she didn't want a gift from me on her birthday, that the trip was her gift).  By the way, she didn't go on the trip because she had discarded me by that point.  So, if she were to ever bring the kindle up again, I'm going to bring the $600 trip up that she didn't go on.  The sad part is I have the kindle packed up along with the other stuff because I can't bear to see it.  She knows this and was upset about that too, because "its not like it has her face on it" (her words).  That shows me just how screwed up she is.

[Scopikaz]

I know you all are right. I just need to do it. The plans are already in motion for the weekend starting tomorrow. So it's too late to back out of those. At this point I plan on doing the other two things we are committed to and I'm trying to prepare mentally. Emotionally. Spiritually for that to be the last of it short of some miracle

[Rmbrworst]

I know you all are right. I just need to do it. The plans are already in motion for the weekend starting tomorrow. So it's too late to back out of those. At this point I plan on doing the other two things we are committed to and I'm trying to prepare mentally. Emotionally. Spiritually for that to be the last of it short of some miracle

I personally don't think it's too late to cancel really ... .  up to you though.  I just feel like you're feeding into someone who's using you.

However I am not judging you.  The first 2-3 weeks of NC with my exBPD was pure torture. I wanted him back so badly.  I was so hurt and lost.  Now I'm at 6 weeks, and my perspective on the situation is much more reasonable and logical.  You cannot get to that space unless you stop holding onto hope and detach.

Always ask yourself this ... ."Would I treat someone like this?  Would I use someone like this?"

Answer is ... .probably not.  And you shouldn't let others treat you that way.

Sending you many well wishes. 

[Rmbrworst]

@lonelyastro

It's very common for people with BPD to give disappointing gifts.  It's also common that when they buy gifts they harp on it.  "Look at the good thing I did. Isn't that great that I did that for you?  Aren't I a great person?"

Very childlike.  Wanting praise over and over for the one nice thing they did.

Yes, my exBPD was similar in his behavior.

[Lonely_Astro]

@lonelyastro

It's very common for people with BPD to give disappointing gifts.  It's also common that when they buy gifts they harp on it.  "Look at the good thing I did. Isn't that great that I did that for you?  Aren't I a great person?"

Very childlike.  Wanting praise over and over for the one nice thing they did.

Yes, my exBPD was similar in his behavior.

I wasn't disappointed with the gifts.  I felt grateful to receive them.  But the constant reminder of what she did for me was ridiculous.  It made me not really want to have accepted it in the first place.  Once again, I felt in a no win situation with her.  She kept hinting at wanting this expensive Fossil watch.  I thought about buying it for her birthday, but stopped for 2 reasons.  1- she told me I shouldn't because it was to expensive and 2- her mom bought her a watch, so she didn't want another one.  Her mom bought her a fossil watch but not the one she wanted and J complained to no end about that.  I told her that it was a nice gesture that her mom bought her a watch, but J still was upset it wasn't the one she wanted.  Honestly I don't know if her mom bought it or if another suitor did at this point.  All I know is there was no pleasing her.

@scopikaz: it's not to late to stop the trip.  I'm sorry, but that's not an excuse.  I'm not judging you at all, just don't lie to yourself why you're doing what you're doing.  You're still holding onto hope she'll change and have an "ah ha!" moment.  Just don't feel heartbroken when it doesn't happen, that's all.

[cosmonaut]

I do but I don't. I want her back normal. Healthy. If she will go to a counselor. I want her back for the right reasons.  Not for the wrong ones.

I think those are the wrong reasons, actually.  You can't form a healthy relationship with these sorts of dynamics.  If we want to be with a partner with BPD we have to fundamentally accept that we are with a partner with BPD.  This is something I see continually on the board and something I've went through inside myself too.  We can't expect our partner to be someone they aren't, and like it or not they have BPD.  That's not their fault in any way, but it is something that comes with them.  If we choose to love them, then we have to love them with the BPD included.  The belief that if they get some therapy we can have them without the BPD is wishful thinking.  I can certainly understand the desire for that.  I get that completely.  But if you really do want to try and make something work with you and your ex, you are going to have to accept her as she is.  It can't ever work otherwise.

[Scopikaz]

I agree we do have to love people where they are. And I'm not even totally sure she has BPD. But she has many of the criteria. But if she does, i compare it to alcoholism or bipolar.

My mother in law was bi polar and I tried to understand things she said or did were not totally her. It was her bi polar. Or like an alcoholic.  It's not them

It's their alcoholism.


I think people married to or in r/s with people with those conditions would say it's a living hell.

But you're right ultimately.  It is a matter of accepting where she is. At the least she has emotional issues and is a manipulator.  At the worst she's high functioning BPD. Either is not good.

I am coming to my end. I just haven't gotten there yet sadly. And I still hope God is somehow in it. Not to say to be back together. But just somehow working in me or her.

[cosmonaut]

I agree we do have to love people where they are. And I'm not even totally sure she has BPD. But she has many of the criteria. But if she does, i compare it to alcoholism or bipolar.

My mother in law was bi polar and I tried to understand things she said or did were not totally her. It was her bi polar. Or like an alcoholic.  It's not them

It's their alcoholism.


I think people married to or in r/s with people with those conditions would say it's a living hell.

But you're right ultimately.  It is a matter of accepting where she is. At the least she has emotional issues and is a manipulator.  At the worst she's high functioning BPD. Either is not good.

I am coming to my end. I just haven't gotten there yet sadly. And I still hope God is somehow in it. Not to say to be back together. But just somehow working in me or her.

I am in complete agreement with you that people are not their disorder.  I'm with you 100%.  In fact, I feel that BPD robs sufferers of so much of their life.  It is a devastating illness.  My ex has so many wonderful qualities, and she really is a beautiful soul.  I truly understand how you wish that could be banished from them and they would be healed.  I feel that way too, and I'd do anything if I could make it happen.

My point was really, as you said, that we have to take the good with the bad in an imperfect world.  We have to love them and be committed to them in sickness and in health.  None of us have to choose to be in a relationship with a pwBPD.  We can decide it's not something we want to commit ourselves to, and that is fine.  There is nothing wrong with that decision.  If we decide to stay, however, we have to accept our partner as they are.  Commitment means we love them in sickness and health, in good times and in bad, for better or for worse.  That's what staying is about.  That's what I was trying to point out.

And yes, God will always be there.  Trust in Him.  Always.  

[Lonely_Astro]

I agree we do have to love people where they are. And I'm not even totally sure she has BPD. But she has many of the criteria. But if she does, i compare it to alcoholism or bipolar.

My mother in law was bi polar and I tried to understand things she said or did were not totally her. It was her bi polar. Or like an alcoholic.  It's not them

It's their alcoholism.


I think people married to or in r/s with people with those conditions would say it's a living hell.

But you're right ultimately.  It is a matter of accepting where she is. At the least she has emotional issues and is a manipulator.  At the worst she's high functioning BPD. Either is not good.

I am coming to my end. I just haven't gotten there yet sadly. And I still hope God is somehow in it. Not to say to be back together. But just somehow working in me or her.

I am in complete agreement with you that people are not their disorder.  I'm with you 100%.  In fact, I feel that BPD robs sufferers of so much of their life.  It is a devastating illness.  My ex has so many wonderful qualities, and she really is a beautiful soul.  I truly understand how you wish that could be banished from them and they would be healed.  I feel that way too, and I'd do anything if I could make it happen.

My point was really, as you said, that we have to take the good with the bad in an imperfect world.  We have to love them and be committed to them in sickness and in health.  None of us have to choose to be in a relationship with a pwBPD.  We can decide it's not something we want to commit ourselves to, and that is fine.  There is nothing wrong with that decision.  If we decide to stay, however, we have to accept our partner as they are.  Commitment means we love them in sickness and health, in good times and in bad, for better or for worse.  That's what staying is about.  That's what I was trying to point out.

And yes, God will always be there.  Trust in Him.  Always.   

You're right, Cosmo, it is a devastating illness.  Not only for the person with, but for those that love them.  That's why we're all here, isn't it?  While they aren't the illness and the illness isn't them, the two are symbiotic and exist together.  I think you and I talked on another thread about how crummy my ex was/is.  She is a crummy person.  I feel some of that was her and some of that is her illness. 

I, like many, tried my best to stand by her through "everything".  I was committed to making it work.  She wasn't.  We don't have to give them a pass for their behavior because they're ill.  I knew I couldn't change/save J, she had to choose to do that herself.  I could only support her so much.  In the end, she used me, abused me, and then discarded me like old garbage.  Was it her or her illness?  It was both. 

For posterity sake, there's no shame in saying you have it your best, your all, and walked away empty handed.  Been there, done that.  If there ever was a chance for success, I had it with J.  I'm educated on cluster b, especially BPD, she's diagnosed, medicated, and (had) started DBT.  We had the perfect chance, the universe was aligned, and it was all blown to hell... .by her.  No amount of validation techniques or understanding or directly or indirectly asking her anything worked.  When it was time for us to end, I was able to walk away saying I had gave her my all.  It just wasn't enough.  That's her loss, not mine.  It takes two to tango, you can only put so much forward.  Sometimes it's just not enough.  Some people just don't want "help".

[cosmonaut]

You're right, Cosmo, it is a devastating illness.  Not only for the person with, but for those that love them.  That's why we're all here, isn't it?  While they aren't the illness and the illness isn't them, the two are symbiotic and exist together.

 

Exactly right.  And that's my point, too.  In order to have a relationship we have to accept that our partner has BPD, and that places limitations on what they are able to provide in the relationship.  We often are angry that our partner won't become what we want them to be which is a person without BPD.  But that's not possible, and it's not fair to demand it of them.  We are demanding the impossible.  I can completely understand anyone who doesn't want to take that on, just as I can completely understand anyone who does.  But if we stay, we have to accept.

I, like many, tried my best to stand by her through "everything".  I was committed to making it work.  She wasn't.  We don't have to give them a pass for their behavior because they're ill.  I knew I couldn't change/save J, she had to choose to do that herself.  I could only support her so much.  In the end, she used me, abused me, and then discarded me like old garbage.  Was it her or her illness?  It was both.  

Yes, we can only do our part, and you are right that relationships take two.  In the end, we can't make anyone love us.  It doesn't change that we need to accept, however.  That doesn't mean we have to accept abuse, but otherwise we will have to accept that there will be difficult times.  There are couples that are able to make a BPD relationship work, but it takes an understanding of what a relationship like that requires.  They are not easy.  I would never say otherwise.  But they are possible, and some members are willing to accept this.  That's all I was trying to communicate to Scopikaz in the event he wants to try and make a relationship work with his ex.

[Lonely_Astro]

You're right, Cosmo, it is a devastating illness.  Not only for the person with, but for those that love them.  That's why we're all here, isn't it?  While they aren't the illness and the illness isn't them, the two are symbiotic and exist together.

 

Exactly right.  And that's my point, too.  In order to have a relationship we have to accept that our partner has BPD, and that places limitations on what they are able to provide in the relationship.  We often are angry that our partner won't become what we want them to be which is a person without BPD.  But that's not possible, and it's not fair to demand it of them.  We are demanding the impossible.  I can completely understand anyone who doesn't want to take that on, just as I can completely understand anyone who does.  But if we stay, we have to accept.

I, like many, tried my best to stand by her through "everything".  I was committed to making it work.  She wasn't.  We don't have to give them a pass for their behavior because they're ill.  I knew I couldn't change/save J, she had to choose to do that herself.  I could only support her so much.  In the end, she used me, abused me, and then discarded me like old garbage.  Was it her or her illness?  It was both.  

Yes, we can only do our part, and you are right that relationships take two.  In the end, we can't make anyone love us.  It doesn't change that we need to accept, however.  That doesn't mean we have to accept abuse, but otherwise we will have to accept that there will be difficult times.  There are couples that are able to make a BPD relationship work, but it takes an understanding of what a relationship like that requires.  They are not easy.  I would never say otherwise.  But they are possible, and some members are willing to accept this.  That's all I was trying to communicate to Scopikaz in the event he wants to try and make a relationship work with his ex.

I don't want to come off as saying it's impossible to make a r/s with a pwBPD is possible.  I think, for some, it's doable.  But, it's certainly not going to be easy.  J and I talked, at length, about her BPD and how we could keep communication open.  Basically, in the beginning, we had a realistic, mature talk about it. She confronted it head on and was sincere in her desire to stay healthy and have a healthy r/s with me.  Except, it was all a lie from the beginning.  Now, do I think that was her or her disorder?  I think the lying was her.  I also think her disorder played a part in it. 

With that said, when times got tough just as I knew they would, I stuck with her.  I tried everything I could, even suggested counseling, to make it work.  I want to make something clear: I never gave up.  I didn't want us to end.  I accepted J for who she really is.  Unfortunately, it didn't matter.  After trying for so long, my spirit broke.  She didn't want me anymore and that was it.  The end of the road. 

I'm not saying it's not worth a try.  I'll never say that.  I will say, however, be prepared to work hard, keep your nose to the grindstone, and don't expect to gain anything from your hard work but more heartache. If you succeed, thank the heavens.  But don't be shocked if it doesn't happen.

[C.Stein]

My ex has so many wonderful qualities, and she really is a beautiful soul.  I truly understand how you wish that could be banished from them and they would be healed.  I feel that way too, and I'd do anything if I could make it happen.

This is what makes it so difficult to understand just What the heck happened, to accept it all and to let go.  This is especially true for those who don't manifest the traits at the most extreme level.  My ex also has some wonderful qualities and can be a genuinely good person (when not engaging in disorder driven behavior which manifests mostly in close personal relationships).  This was so much so the case with her that I wonder just how difficult it would be for her to get this negative, hurtful, destructive behavior under control.  Being undiagnosed I sometimes wonder just how "BPD" she really is even when screening tests clearly show she is.

Doesn't really matter at this point and the damage her behavior and actions has done to me cannot be ignored even if I wasn't the cast away evil person (projection) who is dead to her now.

[Lonely_Astro]

My ex has so many wonderful qualities, and she really is a beautiful soul.  I truly understand how you wish that could be banished from them and they would be healed.  I feel that way too, and I'd do anything if I could make it happen.

This is what makes it so difficult to understand just What the heck happened, to accept it all and to let go.  This is especially true for those who don't manifest the traits at the most extreme level.  My ex also has some wonderful qualities and can be a genuinely good person (when not engaging in disorder driven behavior which manifests mostly in close personal relationships).  This was so much so the case with her that I wonder just how difficult it would be for her to get this negative, hurtful, destructive behavior under control.  Being undiagnosed I sometimes wonder just how "BPD" she really is even when screening tests clearly show she is.

Doesn't really matter at this point and the damage her behavior and actions has done to me cannot be ignored even if I wasn't the cast away evil person (projection) who is dead to her now.

Disordered is still disordered, regardless of the spectrum scale.  I say that because I always said J was "higher" on the spectrum.  She didn't outwardly show the behavior many on here have experienced.  Didn't change the fact she did inexcusable, horrible things to me.  And as you know, she had the trifecta for success (diagnosed, medicated, and DBT)... .she just took a different path.

[Scopikaz]

I appreciate everyone's comments.  Yes. We all have similar experiences And at the same time our post r/s varies.  In some ways I feel stronger. In others not so much. But I think although I'm going through with this weekend that oddly I'm at peace. Not because I expect an aha moment for her. But because I trust God and know in the end things will be ok. Pray for me.