True love vs toxic love

[Driver]

Hello everyone.

I don't know if such subject has been posted yet as I haven't found it on this board, I'd like to share this list of true love vs toxic love to help every one of us realize that we should aim our objectives towards true love and not towards a toxic one. Hope this helps:

Love: Development of self first priority.

Toxic love: Obsession with relationship.

Love: Room to grow, expand; desire for others to grow.

Toxic love: Security, comfort in sameness; intensity of need seen as proof of love – may really be fear, insecurity, loneliness.

Love: Separate interests; other friends; maintain other meaningful relationships.

Toxic love: Total involvement; limited social life; neglect old friends, interests.


love: Encouragement of each other’s expanding; secure in own worth.

Toxic love: Preoccupation with other’s behavior; fear of other changing.

Love: Appropriate Trust (trusting partner to behave according to fundamental nature.)

Toxic love: Jealousy; possessiveness; fear of competition; protects “supply.”

Love: Compromise, negotiation or taking turns at leading. Problem solving together.

Toxic love: Power plays for control; blaming; passive or aggressive manipulation.

Love: Embracing of each other’s individuality.

Toxic love: Trying to change other to own image.

Love: Relationship deals with all aspects of reality.

Toxic love: Relationship is based on delusion and avoidance of the unpleasant.

Love: Self-care by both partners; emotional state not dependent on other’s mood.

Toxic love: Expectation that one partner will fix and rescue the other.

Love: Loving detachment (healthy concern about partner, while letting go.)

Toxic love: Fusion (being obsessed with each other’s problems and feelings.)

Love: Sex is free choice growing out of caring & friendship.

Toxic love: Pressure around sex due to fear, insecurity & need for immediate gratification.

Love: Ability to enjoy solitude by being alone.

Toxic love: Unable to endure separation; clinging.

Love: Cycle of comfort and contentment.

Toxic love: Cycle of pain and despair.

Love: Conversations based upon intent to Understand, Help, or convey affection.

Toxic love: Conversations based upon intent to blame, defend, or manipulate.

Source: “Healthy vs. Unhealthy Love:,” from lightshifter.com

[Lifewriter16]

I love it. Thanks for this Driver.

Lifewriter x

[bdyw8]

This was a good post Driver.  It's funny, with my co-dependency issues I have a lot of toxic qualities myself.

One of the things that keeps me locked in the thinking that perhaps things would be different this time if I begged my exBPD to take me back is that she often presented the ILLUSION of being healthy.  She would say that she wanted me to go do things with my friends, while she hung out with hers, etc. etc.  It all sounds good on paper and when I think sometimes, I actually believe it.

However, and I think I need to write it out as it may be therapeutic, when I really think of the times I tried to do healthy things for myself, she had, sometimes subtle, sometimes obvious negative reactions in her demeanour, however her words would say "I'm okay".

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if I did try to do healthy things for myself in the relationship she would say "oh, great that's good for you, go and do that", however I could tell from her body language and how she would react in the next day or so that she was NOT okay with it at all.  Because of that, when I think back, I almost fool myself into thinking that she was supportive of these healthy r/s qualities whereas I don't actually think she was... .

Does this make sense to anyone?  Can anyone else relate to that?

Here's an example.  She always wanted to go travel with her family (without me) which would sometimes make me sad because her and I had not really travelled together.  So I would often say, "it makes me sad that you haven't made time to go on a trip with me, but you will make time to go on trips with your family".  Her response would be "well it's good for us to do things separate and apart too to maintain blah blah blah".  But then when I made mention of maybe taking a trip by myself, she got totally disturbed and started questioning how I had the money to go on the trip, etc, etc.   So it seemed to me that so long as SHE got to do these things it was okay, but maybe not okay for ME.  

Another example was that she would always go out for tea or whatever with her girlfriends.   She would go for their birthdays etc.  Whenever I hung out with friends, I would often invite them over and have my exBPD there as well.  Then one time, I went to a friend's birthday and she was grilling me about how come she wasn't invited and was totally pissed at my friend... .so perhaps these thoughts that she had "healthy" qualities is just a lie I tell myself based on the "Front" she represented to me, because I guess when I really look at examples like this, she was not really promoting MY individuality... .

Anyone else weigh in on this?  Am I crazy to think that she was healthy in this regard or am I fooling myself into believe the fantasy again... .

[C.Stein]

Does this make sense to anyone?  Can anyone else relate to that?

Yes and Yes.

[Driver]

This was a good post Driver.  It's funny, with my co-dependency issues I have a lot of toxic qualities myself.

One of the things that keeps me locked in the thinking that perhaps things would be different this time if I begged my exBPD to take me back is that she often presented the ILLUSION of being healthy.  She would say that she wanted me to go do things with my friends, while she hung out with hers, etc. etc.  It all sounds good on paper and when I think sometimes, I actually believe it.

However, and I think I need to write it out as it may be therapeutic, when I really think of the times I tried to do healthy things for myself, she had, sometimes subtle, sometimes obvious negative reactions in her demeanour, however her words would say "I'm okay".

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if I did try to do healthy things for myself in the relationship she would say "oh, great that's good for you, go and do that", however I could tell from her body language and how she would react in the next day or so that she was NOT okay with it at all.  Because of that, when I think back, I almost fool myself into thinking that she was supportive of these healthy r/s qualities whereas I don't actually think she was... .

Does this make sense to anyone?  Can anyone else relate to that?

Here's an example.  She always wanted to go travel with her family (without me) which would sometimes make me sad because her and I had not really travelled together.  So I would often say, "it makes me sad that you haven't made time to go on a trip with me, but you will make time to go on trips with your family".  Her response would be "well it's good for us to do things separate and apart too to maintain blah blah blah".  But then when I made mention of maybe taking a trip by myself, she got totally disturbed and started questioning how I had the money to go on the trip, etc, etc.   So it seemed to me that so long as SHE got to do these things it was okay, but maybe not okay for ME.  

Another example was that she would always go out for tea or whatever with her girlfriends.   She would go for their birthdays etc.  Whenever I hung out with friends, I would often invite them over and have my exBPD there as well.  Then one time, I went to a friend's birthday and she was grilling me about how come she wasn't invited and was totally pissed at my friend... .so perhaps these thoughts that she had "healthy" qualities is just a lie I tell myself based on the "Front" she represented to me, because I guess when I really look at examples like this, she was not really promoting MY individuality... .

Anyone else weigh in on this?  Am I crazy to think that she was healthy in this regard or am I fooling myself into believe the fantasy again... .

Thanks bdyw8

Well, I don't know if the list I posted matches with everyone's vision of a healthy relationship. And I think it's ok if some of the things from the list don't match our vision of a healthy relationship as long as our partner and we agree and have mutual respect and as long as we don't blackmail or emotionally hurt each other.

I think that a couple of the most important things from the list to avoid in a healthy relationship are the "cycle of pain and despair", "control, manipulation and blame", "pressure" etc.

For the rest, I guess there are healthy compromises that can be acceptable for both partners.

In a nutshel, without healthy compromises of what is acceptable for you and your partner, you won't have a healthy relationship with your partner (BPD or not I guess).

[bdyw8]

Yeah it was the "compromise" piece that we could never get.  I would constantly ask to be met half-way but she wouldn't budge.  On top of that she would make my requests out to be extraordinary and make me out to be crazy to ask for what I was asking for.

Constantly had me second guessing myself and thinking I was insane for communicating my needs or that my needs themselves were insane.  I would write and re-write emails 3 and 4 times over and sometimes not even send them because I was terrified of a fight ensuing over something seemingly simple to me.

Oh man, it's painful to even recall these things.  I still feel like I just got off some nauseating ride at a theme park and I'm trying to stand up straight but everything is still spinning as I try to find balance and a point of reference... .

[Driver]

Here, in 5 minutes what you can expect from a toxic love relationship (and triangulation):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlcim4WIOLk

[Lifewriter16]

The clip was really disturbing, Driver... .but I'm glad you posted it.

Lifewriter x

[Driver]

The clip was really disturbing, Driver... .but I'm glad you posted it.

Lifewriter x

I just hoped it'd be an eye-opener to those who are still struggling.

[C.Stein]

Here, in 5 minutes what you can expect from a toxic love relationship (and triangulation)

A bit on the extreme side don't you think ... .but point made none-the-less.

[Driver]

Here, in 5 minutes what you can expect from a toxic love relationship (and triangulation)

A bit on the extreme side don't you think ... .but point made none-the-less.

Reckless driving by some pwBPD is sadly, statistically speaking, a reality as well as the reported accidents. Not to mention the way they see a relationship. I actually don't see this video as an exaggeration. But also, let me be clear, I am not saying that all the pwBPD are necessarily suicidal.

[cosmonaut]

Reckless driving by some pwBPD is sadly, statistically speaking, a reality as well as the reported accidents. Not to mention the way they see a relationship. I actually don't see this video as an exaggeration. But also, let me be clear, I am not saying that all the pwBPD are necessarily suicidal.

Huh?  Do you have a citation for that?

Hollywood movies are hardly the best basis for discussing a serious mental health issue.  Hollywood is notorious for non-accurate portrayals.  If the clip means something to you that's fine, but let's not be taking it as anything more than it is.

[Driver]

Reckless driving by some pwBPD is sadly, statistically speaking, a reality as well as the reported accidents. Not to mention the way they see a relationship. I actually don't see this video as an exaggeration. But also, let me be clear, I am not saying that all the pwBPD are necessarily suicidal.

Huh?  :)o you have a citation for that?

Hollywood movies are hardly the best basis for discussing a serious mental health issue.  Hollywood is notorious for non-accurate portrayals.  If the clip means something to you that's fine, but let's not be taking it as anything more than it is.

A total of 492 people were invited to participate in this study; 419 agreed, for a response

rate of 85.2%. Of the 419 respondents, 130 were male, 287 were female, and 2 failed to indicate

sex. Respondents ranged in age from 18 to 65 years (M = 49.48, SD = 15.26). Most (358)

participants were White/Caucasian (85.4%); 35 participants were African American, 8 Native

American, 2 Hispanic, 4 Asian, 11 “other,” and 1 failed to indicate race/ethnicity. With regard to

educational attainment, most (92.1%) had at least graduated high school, with 159 (37.9%)

having attended some college and 110 (26.3%) having earned at least a 4-year college degree.

[... .]

Borderline Personality Disorder and Driving Citations

We noted that speeding was endorsed by two-thirds of participants and deleted this item

from the following analyses.

Source: www.corescholar.libraries.wright.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1047&context=mph


Another source:

www.psychcentral.com/disorders/borderline-personality-disorder-symptoms/

Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating)

Another one:

Driving Recklessly: Relationships With Borderline Personality Symptomatology

To the Editor: In this study, we examine the relationship between reckless driving and borderline personality disorder (BPD)—a relationship that has been infrequently studied.

Method. Participants consisted of men and women, aged 18 years or older, recruited from an identical clinical setting (an internal medicine outpatient clinic that is staffed predominantly by resident providers) during 4 research projects that were undertaken over a 2-year period (2009–2011).1–4 We compiled these cross-sectional datasets to maximize the current sample size for investigation. The resulting sample consisted of 1,102 patients: 353 men, 748 women, and 1 individual who did not indicate sex. Ages ranged from 18 to 97 years (mean = 49.74, SD = 15.35), and 87.1% of participants were white/Caucasian.

During clinic hours, each incoming patient was approached by a research assistant, who excluded individuals unable to successfully complete a survey (mostly due to severe illness and/or language difficulties). The recruiter reviewed the focus of the project with potential candidates and invited each to participate by completing a multipage survey. In addition to demographic queries, we examined, in the survey, borderline personality symptomatology through 2 self-report measures—the BPD scale of the Personality Diagnostic Questionnaire-4 (PDQ-4)5 and the Self-Harm Inventory (SHI)6; a score of 5 or higher on either scale indicates a diagnosis of BPD. As for inquiries about reckless driving, 1 PDQ-4 query states, “I have done things on impulse that can get me into trouble” and includes the item reckless driving. Likewise, SHI item 7 asks respondents whether they have ever “driven recklessly on purpose.” As the focus of the current investigation, these 2 items were not included in the total scoring of the PDQ-4 and SHI. To increase measurement reliability, we considered respondents who endorsed both items to have engaged in purposeful and problematic reckless driving.

These 4 projects were reviewed and exempted by the institutional review boards of both the community hospital and the university. Completion of the survey was assumed to function as implied consent, which was explicitly clarified on the cover page of the booklet.

Results. Of the 1,102 respondents, 77 (7.0%) endorsed both reckless driving items, with no statistically significant difference in the proportions of men (8.8%) and women (6.1%) (χ2 = 2.55, P < .15). Point-biserial correlation coefficients revealed that those who endorsed both reckless driving items tended to be younger (r = –0.17, P < .001) and scored higher on the PDQ-4 (r = 0.38, P < .001) and the SHI (r = 0.46, P < .001). Similarly, when compared to respondents who denied ever having driven recklessly, those who did were more likely to exceed the clinical cutoff score on the PDQ-4 (58.4% vs 13.5%, χ2 = 104.62, P < .001) and the SHI (76.6% vs 15.0%, χ2 = 174.12, P < .001).

While the potential limitations of this study include the self-report nature of the data, including the borderline personality measures, and possible participant overlap in the 4 databases, findings in this large and consecutive sampling of 4 studies indicate clear relationships between reckless driving and BPD.

REFERENCES

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1. Sansone RA, Farukhi S, Wiederman MW. Disruptive behaviors in the medical setting and borderline personality. Int J Psychiatry Med. 2011;41(4):355–363. PubMed doi:10.2190/PM.41.4.e Show Abstract

2. Sansone RA, Lam C, Wiederman MW. Borderline personality disorder and reckless driving. J Clin Psychiatry. 2010;71(4):507. PubMed doi:10.4088/JCP.09l05494gre Show Abstract

3. Sansone RA, Lam C, Wiederman MW. The relationship between illegal behaviors and borderline personality symptoms among internal medicine outpatients. Compr Psychiatry. 2012;53(2):176–180. PubMed doi:10.1016/j.comppsych.2011.03.006 Show Abstract

4. Sansone RA, Leung JS, Wiederman MW. Litigious history and borderline personality symptomatology. Prim Care Companion CNS Disord. In press.

5. Hyler SE. Personality Diagnostic Questionniare-4. New York, NY: New York State Psychiatric Institute 1994.

6. Sansone RA, Wiederman MW, Sansone LA. The Self-Harm Inventory (SHI): development of a scale for identifying self-destructive behaviors and borderline personality disorder. J Clin Psychol. 1998;54(7):973–983. PubMed doi:10.1002/(SICI)1097-4679(199811)54:7<973::AID-JCLP11>3.0.CO;2-H Show Abstract

Randy A. Sansone, MD

Randy.sansone@khnetwork.org

Michael W. Wiederman, PhD

Author affiliations: Departments of Psychiatry and Internal Medicine, Wright State University School of Medicine, Dayton, and Department of Psychiatry Education, Kettering Medical Center, Kettering, Ohio (Dr Sansone); and Department of Psychology, Columbia College, Columbia, South Carolina (Dr Wiederman).

Potential conflicts of interest: None reported.

Funding/support: None reported.

Published online: January 3, 2013.

Prim Care Companion CNS Disord 2013;15(1):doi:10.4088/PCC.12l01379

© Copyright 2013 Physicians Postgraduate Press, Inc.

Source: www.psychiatrist.com/PCC/article/Pages/2013/v15n01/12l01379.aspx

[C.Stein]

Driver,

Not saying this study does not have any validity but I caution you in accepting study conclusions as fact if they have not been published in peer reviewed journals.

[Driver]

Driver,

Not saying this study does not have any validity but I caution you in accepting study conclusions as fact if they have not been published in peer reviewed journals.

To be honest, my first hand sources come from some pwBPD selves who admitted doing it when in rage. But for the objectivity sake, I posted studies made by the psychiatrists.

The reckless driving is part of the risky behavior that they tend to have on the same level as having unsafe sex, doing drugs, drinking or overmedicating etc. Of course, once again, this does not apply to all the pwBPD, but it's one of the characteristics that sadly some of them do have.