Escape

[Noteliz]

I have felt so desperate to get away from my 23 year old daughter that I have thought of suicide. I have never tried it because I have a younger daughter who I will not leave.

I just want this hell to stop. My daughter abuses me daily. I have no help, no friends, no support, no family. I have been turned into a shell of a person because of her behaviour.

Limits are ignored. I've been attacked for responding, for not responding, for smiling, for frowning, for not having any expression on my face, for driving, for cooking, for watching TV... .in essence, attacked for existing at this point.

I listen with empathy, I validate. My daughter has the uncanny ability to forget every single time I have given emotional support or validation.

I don't know what else to say. There's so much... .

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Eyeamme]

Noteliz,

Welcome! I am so sorry you are in so much pain. I have the same situation as do many people on here. Are you seeing a therapist for you? It helps to have someone to talk to. We are here to listen to you.

[AnotherWon]

Hi Noteliz,

I'm so glad you took a chance and posted.  I hope you'll find some hope and good info on this board.  I felt completely isolated a few weeks ago before posting and have learned so much since then that I'm actually hopeful.  For my son?  Idk, that still remains to be seen and most of that will be up to him.  I went to some very dark places during our journey with him.  What I've come to realize here, though, is that I'm not a bad person, we weren't bad parents and mental illness sucks and he has one.  But that doesn't mean our lives have to be miserable.

We are here to listen! You're not alone anymore. 

[penny52]

I'm so sorry for all of the stress you are going through, I felt that way just a month ago. Than I found this site and I spent hours just reading different posts and than starting reading the help guides in Family Connections area, it does help! For one you don't feel like your alone, and people  recommended some books (stop walking on eggshells by Paul Mason is my favorite so far here is an Amazon link:www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1454689610&sr=1-1&keywords=stop+walking+on+eggshells) to read which has help me to understand if I don't care of myself I'm going to be in trouble. All these resources also help you to better communicate to your BPD daughter, with a little time I think you will feel better about yourself and understand borderline just a bit more, take care, I'll be thinking of you!

[donnab]

It sounds like hell. You poor thing, all of you x

I have been reading "Stop caretaking your borderline/narcissist. End the drama" I have found it really helpful. Sounds like you would too.

This needs to stop but you can't make her stop you need to work on putting boundaries in place to protect yourself and your other child from this abuse. And maybe over time you might think the boundary is your daughter stops living with you.

A few weeks ago I thought the only way out of this nightmare would be to commit suicide. But then I realised if I was thinking that was the only option I should try the one thing I find so abhorrent, and have now limited my contact with my dd. Don't get me wrong, it hurts, I miss her and am worried about how she is feeling but I no longer feel like my head is going to explode, like I'm stressed and confused to the point of thinking I'm going to have a stroke. My life feels calm

[AnotherWon]

I've got to agree with what donnab says about some distance.  Our son was on the opposite coast for a year and it was soo much better.  DH and I had rather nice texting relationships with him. Now that he's home again, my savior has been putting all the tools found here to use.  Still frantically reading!

[stormyfarm]

I'm guessing she lives with you? I can totally relate! I used to lock myself (and other child)in my bedroom to get away from her when she was younger. I know this sounds harsh but the best thing that ever happened was mine moved out. She recently asked to come back, it's a definite NO. I'm now raising her 4 year old daughter and things in our house are so much better without her living here.

[Noteliz]

She was out for a year but all she did was screw up. She never got a job, enrolled in uni twice and never went not did she officcially withdraw, leaving us with a 10,000 euro debt.

She also totalled my car while texting, leaving us with one for the family.

She skews reality to suit her so there's no way anyone can be ok around her. If I take a shower she runs the hot water taps to make sure I get no hot water. If I close myself in she screams outside my bedroom.

Everyone, especially me , is "crazy" though she doesn't see that she is the only one who has conflict with others.

Ok, she's mentally ill. So now what? She's in DBT. She's doing mindfulness. We've adjusted our lives for her. We give support and love (but she either refuses to see it or she can't).

If her perception of reality is off then can she ever actually get help?

And I have a therapist but here in Italy BPD has been acknowledged only for the past year. No one knows how to help family members. My therapist just looks at me with his mouth open because he doesn't know what to say.

[donnab]

I've become hardened to it all recently. But I would say 3 of you can live in hell (am assuming it's the 3 of you?) or 1 can and the other 2 can have some peace. In the end I decided the greatest good for the majority was for the best. I couldn't help or save her just living in the nightmare with her. No matter what I did made it ok for her, but I could make it ok for her daughter, my other half and myself

[donnab]

why did you get the debt? She's an adult, you are no longer financially responsible for her

[Kwamina]

Hi Noteliz,

I am very sorry the situation with your daughter is taking such a toll on you. This isn't easy to deal with, that's why I'm glad that you are reaching out for support here.

Your daughter is getting DBT, how long has this been going on? Do you feel like she has made any improvements at all since starting DBT?

DBT has been proven to be effective for certain people with BPD. There are people with  BPD who through hard work have learned to better manage their difficult thoughts and emotions which resulted in improved behavior. For this to happen it is essential that the participants fully acknowledge that there is something wrong with their behavior and fully commit to working on their issues. Do you feel like your daughter acknowledges that there is something wrong with her behavior? Do you believe she is committed to DBT and trying to make things better?

You also mention having had thoughts of suicide, those kinds of thoughts aren't easy to deal with. You mention having a therapist of your own, have you discussed your thoughts of suicide with him?

Take care and I encourage you to keep posting.

We are here to offer you support and advice

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Noteliz]

Your daughter is getting DBT, how long has this been going on? Do you feel like she has made any improvements at all since starting DBT?

Do you feel like your daughter acknowledges that there is something wrong with her behavior? Do you believe she is committed to DBT and trying to make things better?

Kwamina, she spent a month in a rehab/clinic doing DBT in December. She's not a drug addict but here in Italy DBT is almost solely associated with drug users or people with eating disorders, so a rehab is the only place for therapy.

In fact, now she's doing her Skills Training at another rehab where she had to register as a druggie, including weekly blood tests, in order to get into the program. There's no one else in this area that does it.

She seems to do a lot of work in her workbooks and I think she really wants to make herself better. She just can't get past the idea that I'm the cause of her problems (she said because I gave birth to her, in addition to other things). I'm afraid that if she doesn't sort that out she won't make the progress she hopes for.

As for recognizing problems in her behavior? Yes and no. She feels bad after she freaks out (sometimes). She regrets saying things and says she can her herself saying them and can't help it. She refuses to recognize lapses in memory or skewed interpretation of events. She still will insist something is real if it's not, or vice versa.

[Noteliz]

You also mention having had thoughts of suicide, those kinds of thoughts aren't easy to deal with. You mention having a therapist of your own, have you discussed your thoughts of suicide with him?

If I speak of suicide it's more like the IDEA of it, a way to escape. I'm not going to attempt it.

I have a complicated story. I think I am BPD, or was when I was younger. I never acted like my daughter does, never to that extreme, but I had definite BPD symptoms and behaviours. My father was definitely BPD and my daughter's birth father had serious issues with anger and rage.

I have just come off of 23 years of psychiatric medication, erroneously prescribed by several doctors in several countries, without any trying to get me off. I was given more and more until I was literally showing signs of psychosis. I recognized that there was a problem, more serious than what the psychs tried to convince me of: that I was taking medications that I didn't need.

Over the course of a year and a half I tapered myself off of everything. I finished the last tiny bit of taper two weeks ago. I am living with a damaged CNS (that will recover I hope!) and one of the symptoms is depression that wavers. I'm dealing with all of the symptoms (mental and physical, about 15 in all) on my own, and I think I'm doing a lot better than most people in my position.

I have a therapist but I've been seeing him for a month and a half and I'm starting to question his ability. I've done 12 total hours of therapy (paying privately) and the only thing he has suggested is deep breathing when I'm stressed. Duh. I already do that! I mainly talk about my conflicts with my BPD daughter and he doesn't have any advice or suggestions. He's told me about his mother, his workouts at the gym, his sister, and what he likes to eat. I don't think that's how it's supposed to go ;-)

I think I use the THOUGHT of being dead (not the thought of harming or killing myself) as a form of escapism. It's especially strong right now because I'm not doped and numb like I was before, so it's easier for that thought to enter my mind. It's almost a way for me to calm myself in times of extreme turmoil. I apologize if I alarmed anyone. It wasn't my intention. I'm not saying that my comments weren't real--they were real at the time. That is how I felt.

Of course I feel better now that she's been out for a couple of days. I need to enjoy it while it lasts.

[Noteliz]

I'm so sorry for all of the stress you are going through, I felt that way just a month ago. Than I found this site and I spent hours just reading different posts and than starting reading the help guides in Family Connections area, it does help! For one you don't feel like your alone, and people  recommended some books (stop walking on eggshells by Paul Mason is my favorite so far here is an Amazon link:www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1454689610&sr=1-1&keywords=stop+walking+on+eggshells) to read which has help me to understand if I don't care of myself I'm going to be in trouble. All these resources also help you to better communicate to your BPD daughter, with a little time I think you will feel better about yourself and understand borderline just a bit more, take care, I'll be thinking of you!

I found another book that I ordered on Amazon UK. I didn't see this one... .I'll let you know how it is. I've been trying to read as much as possible here. Thanks :-)

[Noteliz]

why did you get the debt? She's an adult, you are no longer financially responsible for her

Unfortunately in Italy we are. It doesn't matter if she's 19 or 45... .as parents we are legally bound to care for her unless she shows she has the means to support herself. It's flipping ridiculous, stupid law.

Plus, when she decided to go to university we thought it was such a good idea. We thought it would have been helpful but she never let on that she never went to classes! She was living on her own (with our money) at the time because I couldn't handle her any more.

[Noteliz]

I've become hardened to it all recently. But I would say 3 of you can live in hell (am assuming it's the 3 of you?) or 1 can and the other 2 can have some peace. In the end I decided the greatest good for the majority was for the best. I couldn't help or save her just living in the nightmare with her. No matter what I did made it ok for her, but I could make it ok for her daughter, my other half and myself

There are 4 of us, plus a dog. My husband is her stepfather. We moved here to Italy from the States when she was 5 and I married him. He is gone most of the time for work. I worry about my dog. She cowers and shakes when my daughter starts raging. That's not normal.

[Kwamina]

Hi again Noteliz

Thanks for coming back and answering my questions.

She seems to do a lot of work in her workbooks and I think she really wants to make herself better. She just can't get past the idea that I'm the cause of her problems (she said because I gave birth to her, in addition to other things). I'm afraid that if she doesn't sort that out she won't make the progress she hopes for.

Based on your other posts it's clear that your daughter's behavior is still quite problematic. I do find it encouraging that you believe she seems to be doing a lot of work and wants to make herself better. She clearly still has a long way to go, but her desire for change is a positive sign. DBT has been proven to be effective for certain people with BPD who through hard work have learned to better manage their difficult thoughts and emotions which resulted in improved behavior. This can take time though and everyone's healing path is different.

Whether she changes or not is ultimately not something you can control. What you can control is your own behavior and by changing our own responses, it is possible to change the dynamics of our relationships with others. Since you are very much concerned about your safety, I think finding ways to protect yourself is particularly important in your situation.

As for recognizing problems in her behavior? Yes and no. She feels bad after she freaks out (sometimes). She regrets saying things and says she can her herself saying them and can't help it. She refuses to recognize lapses in memory or skewed interpretation of events. She still will insist something is real if it's not, or vice versa.

This is very common with BPD. It reminds of this quote from one of our workshops:

Telling a person she shouldn't feel the way she does feel is akin to telling water it shouldn't be wet, grass it shouldn't be green, or rocks they shouldn't be hard. Each person's feelings are real. Whether we like or understand someone's feelings, they are still real. Rejecting feelings is rejecting reality; it is to fight nature ... .Considering that trying to fight feelings, rather than accept them, is trying to fight all of nature, you can see why it is so frustrating, draining and futile.

[Kwamina]

Also thanks for giving the background information about your family.

I have a complicated story. I think I am BPD, or was when I was younger. I never acted like my daughter does, never to that extreme, but I had definite BPD symptoms and behaviours. My father was definitely BPD and my daughter's birth father had serious issues with anger and rage.

Your father had BPD and you think you might have BPD too, though not as extreme as your daughter. Many children of BPD parents find themselves struggling in their adult lives with certain BPD-like traits. We also have a board here for people with BPD parents. You are now mainly here because of your daughter, but if you would want to check out that other board, here is the link:

Coping and Healing from a BPD Parent, Sibling, or Inlaw

You mention getting medication you now believe you never needed and dealing with all your symptoms on your own. On that other message board we also have some threads that I think you might find helpful, also for dealing with (automatic) negative thoughts and any trauma you might have been through:

Automatic negative thoughts: Talking back to your inner critic/negative voice

Dealing with trauma: PTSD, C-PTSD and emotional flashbacks

Recognizing and dealing with our own unhealthy behaviors and coping mechanisms

If I speak of suicide it's more like the IDEA of it, a way to escape. I'm not going to attempt it.

... .

I think I use the THOUGHT of being dead (not the thought of harming or killing myself) as a form of escapism. It's especially strong right now because I'm not doped and numb like I was before, so it's easier for that thought to enter my mind. It's almost a way for me to calm myself in times of extreme turmoil. I apologize if I alarmed anyone. It wasn't my intention. I'm not saying that my comments weren't real--they were real at the time. That is how I felt.

I am actually glad you mentioned having these thoughts because that allows us to address them and try to help you deal with them  One of the links I provided you is about dealing with trauma and there is something in it that might be relevant to your point of calming yourself in times of extreme turmoil:

Ease back into your body. Fear launches us into 'heady' worrying, or numbing and spacing out.

 a. Gently ask your body to Relax: feel each of your major muscle groups and softly encourage them to relax. (Tightened musculature sends unnecessary danger signals to the brain)

 b. Breathe deeply and slowly. (Holding the breath also signals danger).

 c. Slow down: rushing presses the psyche's panic button.

 d. Find a safe place to unwind and soothe yourself: wrap yourself in a blanket, hold a stuffed animal, lie down in a closet or a bath, take a nap.

 e. Feel the fear in your body without reacting to it. Fear is just an energy in your body that cannot hurt you if you do not run from it or react self-destructively to it.

Was using the thought of being dead to escape or calm yourself perhaps something you also did when you were younger? Perhaps something you did when your BPD dad was acting out?

In that thread about dealing with trauma, we talk about how current events can trigger things from our past in us. Do you perhaps feel that your daughter's extreme behavior triggers thoughts and emotions in you related to your childhood with your BPD dad?

Take care