Looks to be a tough day here...keeping my chin up

[formflier]

Wife announced that there was going to be ice skating today with 40 minutes heads up.  She had mentioned it weeks ago.  :)etails don't really matter.

She didn't want to take D2 and D5.  I said I would love to care for hem and they could help Daddy with stuff.

She got a weird look on her face and said I wasn't safe to do it.  Went stomping through the house saying I was acting insane.  

You guys and fill in the details.  I disengaged and will press on with my day.

She says I can have all the kids I want after she gets back in a few hours.

Very frustrating,

FF

[Daniell85]

She thinks you aren't safe because of the weekend projects you are doing? Or... .?

And sorry the lady is being "ominous" again. It feels like a war of attrition to me.

[formflier]

 

I'm not safe because I don't listen to her.  Reality:  I listen but say no, or listen and ask for other options.  If there is 1 way and only 1 way that she gets "happy", well, there are no other options.

She is pissed again about CPS, that was what kept getting brought up.  "I let you back in the house only because you promised to listen to me, "

To be clear, there never was a promise or deal.

We have had many conversations with and without Therapists about communication and listening.  The notion that me no doing what she says has been discussed and refuted in T before.  She is reaching back for a tool she laid down long ago.

Sigh,   Very frustrating

FF

[Notwendy]

FF, while you are looking for the new normal and some sort of pattern/routine, I wonder if things are more like a box of unlabeled chocolates than a good day/bad day pattern.

You know, those boxes of chocolates that you don't know what is in them. One time, you can pick a delicious caramel, the next, one of those jelly things. But there isn't a pattern, just the emotions at the time. Perhaps one way to look at this is, we like the chocolate, but we have  the whole box. Sometimes you get a jelly one, but that's just part of it, but this comes with the caramels and the mints.

[formflier]

We did do some communicating on Saturday (before the powerplay thing).  She was incredulous that I was not concerned about job searches and money.   "You seem very relaxed about it."

I confirmed I was relaxed about it and we had same point of view.

FF

[formflier]

modelling how powerful a force love can be.

Chump.

I would also add that love is a decision and a feeling.  Right now I have very little in the way of feelings for my wife.  The return of the emotional abuse has driven that away.

I'm sure those feelings will come back.  They ebb and flow over time anyway.

I value my wife and the r/s so I have decided to give it a best shot, whenever we get into counseling.  Still waitlisted.

However, my attitude and initial presentation will likely be that I want to be married but if you don't want to be married I am not holding you in a marriage.  How she works out the religious and moral thoughts of divorcing a husband is her business.

Probably won't say it on first day of counseling, but at some point I will let her know that I consider emotional abuse a choice on her part, since she is an adult free to make her own choices.  If she chooses to continue that abuse, while it will make me sad, I will redefine the living arrangements (unilaterally if needed) in order to protect myself from emotional abuse.


FF

[chump]

Probably won't say it on first day of counseling, but at some point I will let her know that I consider emotional abuse a choice on her part, since she is an adult free to make her own choices.  If she chooses to continue that abuse, while it will make me sad, I will redefine the living arrangements (unilaterally if needed) in order to protect myself from emotional abuse.

FF

That sounds very healthy to me.

Chump

[empath]

It sounds like the reading has been helpful for you to be able to describe your own healthy boundaries. In my own efforts to do the same, the boundaries that I set tend to set off my h's 'abandonment fears' (he is self-aware enough to know that those are there, and tend to cause problems for him) and his sense of being unlovable. It has been invaluable to me to have a support system that keeps my head on straight when I'm trying to create space for me within our relationship.

[formflier]

 

Yes, the reading has been great.

Straight talk has been read but I need to go back and study and take notes.

Love must be hard is about halfway done.

Emotionally destructive r/s is about 2/3rds done.

The last two will need to be studied and note taken and all that as well.

But, they have focused the task, so to speak.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

My Achilles heal is sleep.  The standard advice is to go sleep somewhere else.  That doesn't work for me.

$.02 for you here.

You say that the "standard advice" to go elsewhere when your sleep is disturbed doesn't work for you (because you don't tend to sleep well when you go to a hotel (or whatever).

Can you get creative / persistent on this one, and dig into exactly why you cannot sleep well elsewhere? Look for ways you can improve the external situation for your sleeping... .or ways you can change your own attitudes to rest better?

Perhaps you just need some "practice" getting peacefully to sleep elsewhere? No, it won't go well at first, but if you make the situation as good as you can, after a few more times, you will find your rest there improves?

Because if you can find ways to make sure you get your sleep, you increase your odds of saving your marriage, which is obviously very important to you.

[KateCat]

I may be on the wrong track here, but my fear would be that a regular pattern of formflier leaving the home at this time, and particularly at night, might further any attempts his wife may be making to marginalize him and exclude him from the family. And give credence to any future argument that he remains in the home only at his wife's forbearance and upon her best judgment of any emerging situation.

Maybe your wife was not thinking clearly when she texted you this on January 29, but it sounded a bit determined:

" . . . you are supposed to listen to me when I tell you that you are not OK if you refuse to do that I cannot make you but that is what you said you would do if we allow you back in the house with us."

How can you best establish that you are "OK" or "safe" at this time? And get some sleep too, of course. 

[Daniell85]

I agree with KateCat.

FF Wife has already said many times that she "let" him come back home. Last thing I would do is spend nights out of the house on a regular basis.

What is up with the original theater room that was made into a pool table room?

FF, your wife cannot be in 2 places at once. What about a secondary sleep place in the pool table room. Shoo the kids out and lock the door behind them if she is in the living room  with the tv blaring, maybe?

[KateCat]

And I agree with Daniell85.

Can any room be designated as a quiet (sleep) room and additionally soundproofed for that purpose? Prayer, recuperation from illness, exam preparation--with a very large family, maybe that room could get much use.

A concern, I think, in your situation is anything that may reduce in the future your time with your children should you and your wife ever separate. If you should later raise concerns about your wife's parenting in any way, she could quickly point to the fact that previously you were comfortable leaving your children in her sole care and sleeping elsewhere. 

[formflier]

 

There is now a bit of effort to get the TV room (no TV but a projector on ceiling and nice screen on wall) to be able to play actual TV and movies down there.  there are some money challenges there.  Hint:  The $$ was spent without my consent and with me asking to wait on putting a TV and entertainment center right outside the door of where I sleep.

Here it the thing.  This looks planned to me, I hope it is not, but it just looks bad. 

All of the suggestions you guys have made were cared for during multiple conversations before we (my father) signed the purchase contract.  If there was no agreement, there would have been no house.  This is my wife's top choice of house and location. 

She said what she needed to get what she wanted.

You guys know me, on many things I am probably too passive.  If I don't care, I really don't care.  If I care, I really care.  There is not much middle ground. 

I care about my kids getting beaten.  (call CPS)

I care about not being an employee of my wife.  Does anyone ever see her "telling" me to do something and me actually doing it?  OK, in truth this has happened.  If I remember right I think she yelled and me and told me to go fishing or something like that.  You can imagine the mental gymnastics I had to go through, but I went fishing.  There have been times I have been told to do something I wanted to do and I didn't to preserve a principal.

Anyway, I care about my sleep and care of me. 

I also care that significant life decisions create obligations. 

It is one thing to move across country, get sick, and changes are forced on your family.  It is quite another to move across country and make active, willing choices to invalidate the choices you said you make in a new location.  TV room and contact with parents are big examples. 

Noise downstairs and sporadic, once a week contact with parents.  I would never have attempted to give my wife a BS argument about "now honey, you have had your one visit this week, leave your parents alone now and talk to me"

That's not reasonable (IMO).  Bringing her family into my house to keep me awake and then camping out at her parents house for days on end with kids, well,   that is a choice.  It didn't Just happen.

I get it there is a disordered mind twisting things.  She is still responsible for her choices.  I won't rescue her from them.  I will make reasonable efforts to rescue our r/s, but I can't and won't carry it myself.

I am giving her space without ignoring her.  She maintains the basic stance that she won't say much until counseling, so I will wait.

Sigh.

FF

[KateCat]

Sounds as though you have some very concrete issues to discuss in counseling. That could be a good thing.

[formflier]

Sounds as though you have some very concrete issues to discuss in counseling. That could be a good thing.

Yep.  I believe I am prepared to discuss them in a businesslike and non-argumentative way.  She can have her details and I can have mine.  No interest in chasing rabbit trails of differing remembrances.

Pretty simple.  

1.  I am disabled and get to care for my disabilities (sleep ones) between 10 and 6 am without fear or worry of changes of plans.

or

2.  She gets to control noise level in house 24/7 regardless of desires of other people living here.

Yes I want to talk about events some, but don't want to spend much time on that.

FF

[KateCat]

Would this counseling also be a good time (and a safe place) to get your wife on record about you being "safe" or "OK" on your own around the children?

Just to make sure there is not any case being built by her or her side of the family that you are unstable and threatening, and that a CPS case in your former location bears some type of witness to instability on your part?

It might be really reassuring to put that concern to rest . . . .

[formflier]

 

Yeah, there are several issues that I want to "listen" to on day 1 and a couple to take action on.

Right now I have made a choice not to "fight" her decision.  This would look like me going over to her parents house and getting my kids.  If they balk, police will come.  I will have birth certificates and all that. 

I will obviously sweeten up this plan, but I will listen to her concern.  I am pretty sure I will not agree with her point of view.

So, then the next step will be to say that I have made a decision to reduce conflict until we get to counseling, not that I agree with her point of view.

She has said her concerns, I have listened, so it is time to schedule time with me keeping the girls.  She will agree or balk.  If she balks, I will let her know that I will be keeping them the next day.  She will then have a choice, stay home and "protect" them or go to work.

I will do this in a calm and businesslike way.  Will have my PTSD records with me if needed.  And, in my opinion, untreated and uncontrolled PTSD guys would not be able to withstand the "button pushing" she has been doing and the keep away games with the kids.

Biblical counseling is all about the role of the father and husband as leader of the house.  I will be ready to step into those roles immediately. 

If she insists on needing to maintain control, I will ask for Biblical reference for this. 

At this point she will be in conundrum,   in an environment that is the "only" place she will go and the place that is guaranteed to solve our problems, she will loose control of the kids or she will have to "flip God the bird" and go forth according to her own knowledge.

I don't see this as persecuting her.  I see it as her dealing with her own contradictions and worldviews.  Not a comfortable thing for any of us. 

I am convinced she can do this.  Whether or not she will do it, will grapple with the contradictions, is another matter.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Pretty simple.  

1.  I am disabled and get to care for my disabilities (sleep ones) between 10 and 6 am without fear or worry of changes of plans.

or

2.  She gets to control noise level in house 24/7 regardless of desires of other people living here.

Watch it. You got some stuff very right here. And some stuff wrong. It is a subtle but critical boundary issue.

Your position is valid.

Bad bad boundaries to state her position. Especially as a very unrealistic straw man position that she would never state. (Yes she acts this way but never says it that way!)

Instead simply state your boundary:

"I will not live in a house that doesn't include a quiet place to sleep between 10 and 6. "

Don't state what actions you will take to get this. Don't make threats.

But if you are going to file for divorce and custody over this issue, be ready to if you need to. Or whatever steps you need to take.

[formflier]

I understand about stating her position, I would never describe it to her that way.


FF

[Sunfl0wer]

If she insists on needing to maintain control, I will ask for Biblical reference for this. 

I think it is unwise to use the bible as a 'weapon' to her.

Going to your faith based counseling sounds like a positive thing no matter the direction of things.

Bringing up the bible in such a manner may give her reason to turn sour about following through with the counseling maybe?  (Unless you mean that this would happen while in the session)

Be careful about cornering her... .  Cornering may backfire.

[formflier]

Bringing up the bible in such a manner may give her reason to turn sour about following through with the counseling maybe?  (Unless you mean that this would happen while in the session)

Be careful about cornering her,  Cornering may backfire.

Oh, absolutely only in session.

I don't see it as cornering.  She picked the frame of reference to approach the issue, I won't save her from any troubling contradictions.  She may have a good way of looking at it.  Won't know until I hear from her.

But, I've done this rodeo before.  No much wiser in the ways of BPD.

FF