She's breaking down again...advice needed

[lawman79]

  So I badly need some advice.  About 2 months ago I reunited with my udBPDexgf.  We hadn't talked in a year and she reached out to me.  Despite all her BS that things had changed, it quickly became obvious that nothing had changed.  Stupidly, I stuck around but promised myself that I would keep my guard up (I know, really healthy).  My ex is the manipulating / violent raging type.  In our past relationship as thing got worse she would threaten suicide or lie about cutting her self (she never did either).  I know she is not diagnosed nor does she receive treatment.  I do know that she takes adderol, ambien and has terrible OCD and sleep issues.  She also has suicidal ideations and is depressed, so whether it's BPD or not there is clearly something serious going on. 

   This past weekend I had to go out of town for a friend's bachelor party.  I knew this would be trouble, because whenever I leave town (even if its just for a few days, she always flips out and picks terrible fights with me).  Two days before I left she picked a bad fight with me telling me that everything about my past was a lie and didn't add up even down to my work history.  I have been a  government lawyer for the last 11 years since graduating law school, so what she was saying made zero sense.  It was upsetting and hurtful but I let it go. 

   Within a couple of hours of me leaving town she breaks up with me over text (something she has done dozens of times).  I figured I would let that go too and not argue with her over text.  As the night progresses her behavior gets worse. Says she called her parents to come pick her up (they live 5 hours away) and that she is sick and needs to go to a hospital and that she needs me to care for her dog (makes no sense). I ask her what's wrong, she wont tell me.  Will only say that she is not feeling well and is having suicidal thoughts but don't call 911.  Sunday she texts me she is in the hospital and can give me the address if I want to come visit.   I ask, but she won't say which hospital or where she is or what's wrong.  All she would say is that it was none of my business. 

   I called her office today and verified that she was at work (did it anonymously). So obviously this entire thing was a lie to get attention.  At this point I am really at a loss on how to handle this or what to do.  Obviously this behavior is not acceptable and is indicative of severe mental illness.  At this point I am thinking of just letting her be until she is ready too talk.  But where do we go from here?  Obviously she can't be trusted.  I could really use some guidance. 

[Conundrum]

Hi, I've read some of your posts. I'm wondering whether querying, "where do we go from here" is a rhetorical question--because from a plain reading of your posts it appears that you possess sufficient evidence to form a reasonable conclusion.

If you remain on the same trajectory--it's highly probable that you're heading (again) down the rabbit hole with an untreated extremely volatile maladjusted person.

If that's your cup of tea--go for it, but then don't feel blue when the mad tea party spirals into an unstable vortex of disorder.

For that is what you have chosen.

Some people like that and some people don't. Which one are you? It's ok to like high conflict women--we all have our particular tastes.

However, if you desire something of another bent--then weigh the evidence, assess the credibility of the witness, and evaluate whether propensities do illustrate conformity with character.

I would surmise though--that if you desire to continue with this woman it will require a total lack of neediness/dependence on your part, coupled with being very in control of your emotions. If you can enjoy her company without falling into that trap (easier said than done) then perhaps she has other qualities which call to you. Otherwise, trusting her to be a reliable loyal steward of your heart appears to be a recipe for continuing turmoil. She is untreated and according to your description acts out upon the slightest of provocation. I wish you well.              

[lawman79]

Conundrum,

Thanks for replying.  Of course I know you are correct. She's in her 30's and is in complete denial about her issues, she even told me a few times that suicidal ideations are normal for everyone.  I still can't wrap my head around the fact that Thursday night she was headed to her accountant to do her taxes and less than 24 hours later she is lying about being suicidal and hospitalized.

I just don't get this behavior.  She must think that I am really dumb to fall for this.  Now that for a fact that it was all a lie what does she think will happen? That I will just say that's ok that you did this.  This behavior is completely normal and fair and exactly how I want to be treated.  Let's get married and have children because I am sure as a partner and a parent you will provide a healthy and loving environment.

All this because I had the audacity to leave town for 48 hours... .

She doesn't know that I know that this was all a lie.  Part of me just wants to pull a disappearing act on her and not reply to her anymore without any explanation at all because that's exactly what she deserves. 

[Lucky Jim]

Hey lawman79, I concur with Conundrum.  What makes you think things will go differently?  Or maybe you are OK with all the drama and turmoil?  Do you have any particular questions?

LuckyJim

[lawman79]

Hey Lucky Jim,

I guess I don't expect things to be different and certainly they aren't.  I knew there would be a blow up this weekend,  I didn't think it would be this bad.  But she has done stuff like this before so certainly I knew of her potential. 

I do love her and care about her.  But clearly I cannot accept this behavior.  If her past behavior is any guide she will ask me to come over tonight and act like nothing happened.  Even if I show her her texts she won't admit that she threatened suicide and said she was in the hospital and then half ignored me for 2 days.

I guess my question is even if I wanted to give this another try... .how would I even go about it?

[Conundrum]

I guess my question is even if I wanted to give this another try... .how would I even go about it?

In her current unimproved state there's nothing that you can do which will lead to a successful stable traditional relationship.

Calling her out on those texts will accomplish little. They are the tools that she uses. Broken patterns/cycles. You will not change that. Either accept that it comes with the territory or don't--albeit you can minimize the impact when you choose not to engage with her acting out.     

However (apparently the heart wants what the heart wants), consequently if you still want something:

Don't get all emo with her

Don't shame

Don't feed the drama llama

Accept her limitations

Don't be needy

Be charming, confident, witty and fun

Never tolerate abuse--remove yourself immediately. Abusive you leave--non abusive you stay

Care less about the relationship than she does

Never chase

Keep it light and fun

Parse out time with her, your time's valuable--good behavior more time, bad behavior less time.

Live a fulfilling life with or without her

Hide all the sharp objects... .

[Fr4nz]

Conundrum,

Thanks for replying.  Of course I know you are correct. She's in her 30's and is in complete denial about her issues, she even told me a few times that suicidal ideations are normal for everyone.  I still can't wrap my head around the fact that Thursday night she was headed to her accountant to do her taxes and less than 24 hours later she is lying about being suicidal and hospitalized.

I just don't get this behavior.  She must think that I am really dumb to fall for this.  Now that for a fact that it was all a lie what does she think will happen? That I will just say that's ok that you did this.  This behavior is completely normal and fair and exactly how I want to be treated.  Let's get married and have children because I am sure as a partner and a parent you will provide a healthy and loving environment.

Just an hypotesis... .perhaps, more than thinking you're dumb... .she's ashamed of feeling those ways, so she feels the urge of lying to you, especially if she perceives you are criticizing her.

For example, criticizing her because she "feels" suicidal but she doesn't put in practice these suicidal ideations, pushes her to hide her true, inner feelings more and more. As a consequence, you end up understanding less and less what is truly going on, with the inevitable rages that follow from her side.

I'd also add that the "tests" she's continuously doing to you (see the hospital thing) stems from her fears of abandonment.

I'd follow the suggestions Conundrum gave you, because it's the only way you can hope she will open to you without creating further dramas; obviously, it's not easy to follow such advices given that you're still heavily emotionally involved and you're in the middle of the storm... .however, it's the only way to keep some kind of relationship with her.

Anyway, I agree with Conundrum that, in general, you shouln't expect a long-lasting/fullfilling relationship with her, as the disorder makes it simply impossible.

A big hug

[Caley]

Hello Lawman,

This is just my take having read what you've written.

Firstly, probably because of past experiences with her, you sound like you're defaulting to a belief of seeing subterfuge, deceit and none sense in her behaviour.

Sometimes, but not always, pwBPD suffer from acute anxiety at the thought of being separated from their SO. This is going to be tough for you to deal with ...  but you can learn to see the signs and take action to alleviate the stress she feels when you announce imminent departure to spend time with others without her.

My feeling is that she suffers from separation anxiety. Much like a small child acts up when their primary carer leaves the room. I guess it might be related, in some way, to object constancy. To paraphrase; when you disappear from eyeshot ... for them it's like you cease to exist ... which causes deep distress at the thought that you might not come back (abandonment).

Much of her behaviour, if not all, suggests that she's trying desperately to prevent you from leaving to alleviate her fears of separation. You can see for yourself that her behaviour escalates to increasing acts of desperation to keep you close and attached.

"I will kill myself, but don't call the cops!" Means, ... .if I put the fear of God into you, you'll not leave me ... and I will feel safer and better. Of course, I won't carry out the threat but I just want to keep you from leaving me.

It helps to try to look at these things from as many perspectives as you can because you'll be less inclined to judge her actions/behaviour in the negative light of 'lying' or being deliberately deceitful.

Dealing with difficult people takes a huge amount of energy and you might need to decide if you're up to the task long term. Can you commit to sustaining and maintaining the role of not just taking care of your own emotional well-being ... but hers too until she is able to rewire her thought processes which drive her emotional states? You would need to tread lightly so that your efforts to do so are not seen, by her, as critical or suggestive, in any way, that she is defective (that's a killer for them).

If I faced your situation I would send a text or email stating that you are aware that she is upset but that you're available to her if she wants to talk with you about it (nothing more, nothing less). A text or email is better, in this case, because it is a point of reference that she can go back to and read again and again. A telephone call will get lost and she may not be able to recall accurately what you have said.

Be solid as a rock emotionally ... that's what she needs and wants from you. If you can be this way around her she'll cling like a limpet and you'll not find a more loyal partner. It takes time and the lessons on this site are valuable tools you can learn and adopt.

Try not to make assumptions based on past experience ... think outside the box and try not to buy into this pop psychology that people with BPD traits are bonkers, crackers and unsavoury people ... it doesn't help you or them and is a subtle form of blame shifting.

Best regards.

[Fr4nz]

Be solid as a rock emotionally ... that's what she needs and wants from you. If you can be this way around her she'll cling like a limpet and you'll not find a more loyal partner. It takes time and the lessons on this site are valuable tools you can learn and adopt.

While being a rock, emotionally, can greatly help, the fact that she'll be loyal is very, very questionable. As always, it depends on the specific BPD... .but the generalization you made is not true.

Let us not give false hopes to lawman... .

[Caley]

Fr4nz does make a very valid point ... perhaps I should have said 'can' be very loyal.

I believe that one's own state can have a marked effect on the dynamics of these types of relationships ... .BPD's can be hypersensitive to verbal nuances, facial expressions and real or imagined threats. They repeatedly monitor the strength of their relational bonds ... so, if you approach with a 'questionable' mindset ... they see it. And, often way before you're giving out suspicious vibes.

Fr4nz & Lawman,

I can only speak from my own direct experiences and wouldn't want to give false hope. You both know your SO's and you can take or leave any or all of what is offered by others. I would still advocate slow, thoughtful and positively charged approach to what are often bewildering behaviours that are not always driven by a conscious and precognitive motivation to manipulate nefariously.

[lawman79]

First,  I want to thank everyone for their advice.  I appreciate and I think it was useless.  I actually took a little of everyone's advice. 

I didn't call her out for lying about hospital / suicide.  I texted her that I didn't know what was going on but I was here to listen and that I cared and wanted to know what was going on.  I got back sporadic texts about how I don't care and how it doesn't matter (Mind you I know the hospital thing was a lie and she went to work yesterday).  I didn't answer these because it was a no win situation. 

  She was having people over her house for an organization she is part of last night and she previously stated she really wanted me to come.  At around 5 pm she shifted to asking me if I would still come (kinda shocking she was still having the party given that she was supposed to be in the looney bin.)  I took Condrums advice here and didn't reward what I consider to be bad abusive behavior.  I texted her back that I was glad she was feeling well and out of the hospital and that I hope her party goes well.  I also said that given how she wasn't feeling well I assumed the party was cancelled and I made other commitments.  That didn't go over well and she accused of going out to get drunk with my friends (she is a much bigger drinker than me and it was a Monday night so... .).   I just ignored that.  I got some late night texts asking me if I was up and I ignored those too.  Did I handle this correctly? I thought the general idea was to reward good behavior and ignore / leave when bad behavior occurs. Although that does seem like a game to me. 

   I guess bottom line is she wants to pretend like this weekend didn't happen.  I think it will be really tough for me to do that.  I am going out of town in 3 weeks to visit me family for a weekend and I am sure this will happen again... .ugh.

[Conundrum]

Given a difficult situation you handled it well, but others can chime in. Now wait and see whether she chooses to communicate w you in a more sensible manner. Stay consistent. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey lawman79, To me the late-night texts are indicative of her fear of abandonment, which can lead to obsessive, stalking type behavior (think Fatal Attraction).  Suggest you tread carefully here.  I suspect you will be the object of some sort of manipulation, and the F-O-G (fear, obligation & guilt) will roll in.  If you sense pressure, it's likely to be an effort at manipulation, so get ready.

LuckyJim

[lawman79]

  Thank you Jim and Conundrum,

   I appreciate your advice.  I am fully prepared for more manipulation based lies to draw me in (everything is fair game with her).  I am a sure it will be mixed with vile verbal abuse as well as how this all my fault and exactly what I wanted.  There will be an occasional I love you and I miss you in there too (Am I wrong that this is classic BPD?).  I really felt going to her party when she said she was in the looney bin the day before was not a good idea. 

   So basically I wait for her to calm down and start addressing me more sensibly as Conudrum suggested?

[lawman79]

Update:  Just texted me and asked if I want to go to her house later after work (not do you want to get together or hang out).  Still no explanation about what this weekend was about.  I feel like if I ignore it and let it go I will be allowing her to test my own grip on reality.   

[Conundrum]

I wouldn't push the explanation aspect. The explanation will be disordered. Consequently, there is nothing to gain. If you plan on meeting with her, I'd suggest changing the arrangements to a restaurant (not a bar). Public place, less chance for her to act out, and easier for you to keep it light and casual. Just my 2 cents.

[lawman79]

Thanks Conudrum.  I am just hurt and more than a bit fed up.  The prospect of more huge blatant lies is not very appealing to me.  We aren't married and we don't have kids or property.  So really dating / relationships should be fun and certainly should be way more good then bad.   The worse part is she constantly accuses me of playing mind (yeah I am the one who lies about being in the hospital to get attention).  Before meeting me her longest relationship was less than a year at age 34.  That's not normal. 

  I don't think I am the man for this assignment. 

[Conundrum]

Thanks Conudrum.  I am just hurt and more than a bit fed up.  The prospect of more huge blatant lies is not very appealing to me.  We aren't married and we don't have kids or property.  So really dating / relationships should be fun and certainly should be way more good then bad.   The worse part is she constantly accuses me of playing mind (yeah I am the one who lies about being in the hospital to get attention).  Before meeting me her longest relationship was less than a year at age 34.  That's not normal. 

  I don't think I am the man for this assignment. 

That's understandable lawman, these relationships come with many pitfalls and the benefits are often amorphous. I've found that the demarcation line btwn relationally functional vs. dysfunctional is when the pwBPD authentically desires to improve (their own self)--then they seek out evidenced based therapies. It's not a panacea, but a serious approach towards wellness goes a long way. I wish you the best.   

[Lucky Jim]

  I don't think I am the man for this assignment.

Hey lawman, I happen to agree with you, but I was married to a pwBPD for 16 years so I'm probably jaded.

I think you are doing a good job of perceiving the reality of your situation, rather than hoping/waiting for something to change.

Agree w/Conundrum: If you plan to meet, make it in a public place.  My BPDxW had a dark side that came out behind closed doors.

LuckyJim

[lawman79]

Thanks Jim and Conudrum

  So she has been texting me all day and begging me to come over tonight too "cuddle".  She has made it clear she has no intention of discussing what happened this weekend except to say that she had a "mental breakdown".  She is creating a fantasy land where I can't tell what's real and what's fact.  She also said her mental health is none of my business.

  I really don't think going over there and acting like everything is ok is a good idea for my own well being.  I think it sends the signal that I am ok with her behaving badly.  It sounds like she is heavily dysregulated at this point.  Is that a fair assumption? How bad is her behavior on the BPD scale?

  I am obviously by no means a doctor but seems like she needs inpatient treatment.  I think anything short of intensive treatment and possibly meds and I think that I am deluding myself that this behavior will get anything but worse.