He keeps taking my car...

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I'm still wondering how to deal with this though when out in public,

Don't bat an eye, walk away.

Remember the story where I walked out of a restaurant after my wife called me a slob?

In an even tone I said "I will not be called names" (or something close to that) and walked out.  I'm sure the surround tables heard. 

You have no responsibility to protect his image. 

FF

[formflier]

I'm still wondering how to deal with this though when out in public,

Don't bat an eye, walk away.

Remember the story where I walked out of a restaurant after my wife called me a slob?

In an even tone I said "I will not be called names" (or something close to that) and walked out.  I'm sure the surround tables heard. 

You have no responsibility to protect his image. 

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. At first just be really consistent with walking away from truly abusive things he says, or abusive tones(when he mocks, or belittles me), which I think I've been doing, just maybe not as consistently as I should have been. It needs to be every time.

I wonder if setting boundaries is like building a fence to keep your dog in your yard.

If you are inconsistent once, but mostly consistent, it is like leaving the gate door open.  (He can get out, and may run to try the door again and again to see if you left it open again... and he may bang harder on it hoping it will eventually give like last time... .kind of like an extinction burst.)

If you are inconsistent on a regular basis, it is like the fence having gaping holes all around that the dog can pass through.  (The dog always remembers these spots and tries to get out using the one you are least likely to notice... .cause he knows you will block him if you find the weak spot he last escaped through. ... .at least my dog did.)

Maybe consistently being inconsistent is like building a low fence that the dog enjoys having fun jumping over like a game.

Remember... .

Consistency can train a huge elephant to stay within a boundary with only a simple string around its leg. 

Just as the impact of weak boundaries is huge/having great affect on persons... .The impact of strong boundaries can be huge!

[Cat Familiar]

Inconsistency trains horses to take advantage and be dangerous. Inconsistency reinforces bullying behavior in humans.

[Ceruleanblue]

Well, I don't enjoy public scenes, and then if I get in the car with him, and he's then angry, he's likely to drive crazy or have road rage. He knows his aggressive driving scares me, and he likes to do that when angry.

Formflier, if I just walk out, like you did at the restaurant, it's likely to be ME suffering an ugly consequence. I'm thinking the gender difference here plays a part. When we are out, BPDh does the driving. I'd bet with you and your wife, you as a rule do the driving? So, if I leave, the car will be locked, and when he shows up, he'll be super angry.

I'm must trying to think and plan ahead, because I can sort of predict "what's likely" based on past experiences. I can't always predict when he'll get mad, or why, but I can predict things based on past experiences(and angry driving has always been one of his).

Still say to just walk away when out in public?

[chump]

Well, I don't enjoy public scenes, and then if I get in the car with him, and he's then angry, he's likely to drive crazy or have road rage. He knows his aggressive driving scares me, and he likes to do that when angry.

Formflier, if I just walk out, like you did at the restaurant, it's likely to be ME suffering an ugly consequence. I'm thinking the gender difference here plays a part. When we are out, BPDh does the driving. I'd bet with you and your wife, you as a rule do the driving? So, if I leave, the car will be locked, and when he shows up, he'll be super angry.

I'm must trying to think and plan ahead, because I can sort of predict "what's likely" based on past experiences. I can't always predict when he'll get mad, or why, but I can predict things based on past experiences(and angry driving has always been one of his).

Still say to just walk away when out in public?

Hey CB, I don't know if it's available or practical where you live, but Uber/Lyft might be a resource here. Convenient and pretty affordable.

Chump

[Verbena]

If you are out in public and your husband becomes abusive, you absolutely do need to walk away AND get another ride home.  Call a friend, call a taxi, call somebody.  If your husband is prone to road rage as you've said, the last thing you want to do is be stuck in the car with him after you've walked away. 

[formflier]

 

Chump has good point about rideshare.

I driver for uber to pick up extra $$.  (oh yeah, but I haven't earned a paycheck or done any work in over a year, according to mrs FF).  I have never "ridden" uber as a rider, but I am familiar with the app.

It's all smartphone based.  No calling, just use the app.

Do NOT get in car with him when angry.

Yes, I firmly stand behind not taking abuse in public.  You are safer there, let him create and SUFFER his own consequences.  If he makes himself an ASS, that is his choice.  YOU walk away.

Yes, I try to drive most of the time.  I have pulled over, taken the keys and WALKED AWAY several times.  "I'll be back in 10 minutes, hopefully we can talk properly when I get back, "

Yes I have done that with kids in the car.

Once or twice I have ridden with her driving and her mad, that sucked.  I won't do it again. 

When tensions are up, I create situations/excuses to meet places so we each are driving.  When I walked out after the slob thing, I got in truck and drove away.  She had her own car. 

Yes, I did think about that ahead of time and was intentional about setting that up.  I was more relaxed that way and felt more confident enforcing my boundary.  Keys were in my pocket, so I stood and walked out.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Well, I don't enjoy public scenes, and then if I get in the car with him, and he's then angry, he's likely to drive crazy or have road rage. He knows his aggressive driving scares me, and he likes to do that when angry.

Sometimes you have to make a tough choice.

First off, being in a car when he is driving puts you very much under his control. If you are driving and he starts to get abusive, you can pull over and stop and tell him that this is unacceptable.

If he doesn't stop, you can simply get out of the car and leave.

(Please pre-plan with a safe friend or family supporter to be able to pick you up in the middle of nowhere on short notice, and have your cellphone at the ready)

If he *KNOWS* he has you trapped in the car, he will take advantage of it. Maybe not every time, but sooner or later.

If he "always" drives places when you are together, you may have to stop going with him. You can go separately in another car.

You may simply have to tell him "I won't drive with you." He can fuss, but he doesn't have the right to force you into the car.

This kind of thing is confrontational. It has a cost to you. It will keep you from doing things, and make your husband upset. Sometimes protecting yourself is expensive, but worth it.

[flourdust]

Agree 100% with FF and GreyKitty. The first time it happens, walk away. If you have to get a cab, an Uber, a lift from a friend, a hotel room ... .do it. Yes, it costs money, but that money is punishing him for his bad behavior.

After that, refuse to ride in a car with him. Take separate vehicles. Again, costs money ... .but it's HIS cost.

[sweetheart]

Sorry came late to the thread, been away.

CB be prepared for extinction bursts, and continuations of this behaviour once you are home if you decide to enforce this boundary.

Be prepared to walk away, drive away, stay elsewhere if your h continues to dysregulate once you are inside the house.

It may take many times for you to repeat these actions, and I mean many times for your h to get the message. That you will not tolerate abusive behaviour.

It does work, but it is not a quick fix and in my experience with my h his behaviour increased, his threats increased, every time I enforced my boundary.

Did the abuse stop, did the threats to divorce me stop, did his intimidating behaviour stop? Yes they did, but it took a while and it made me sick to my stomach when I first started to address the abuse.

[Ceruleanblue]

I think that driving separately when I think things might go badly is a good option. The thing is, he's so erratic right now, I'll think he's "fine" that day, then he'll go off because I want to buy a snow shovel. It's just so out of the blue. I refused to argue with him, so getting back in the car with him was fine that time, but other times he has driven while angry, and he drives very aggressively, and it scares me.

I can always drive myself, but I just think it's going to be intensely triggering for him if I have to get to that point. We don't have Ubers here, just cabs, which I could do if I had to. I know if I just suggest we drive separately, he's going to complain about the gas cost.

In the end though, I have to worry more about ME, and having this boundary around abuse, than about him getting even more mad. Yeah, he'll be mad, but that's always his choice. He's had so many people tell him that "actions have consequences" that he gets sick of hearing it, but he doesn't think HE should live by those rules everyone else follows.

[formflier]

Please read your post again,

Do you see how a lot of it can be about him and his feelings, needs, issues?

Where is CB in all this?

What's more important, his comfort with gas cost?  or CB's safety/fear of aggressive driving?

FF

[MaybeSo]

BPDh doesn't seem to need or want that emotional connection even when things are "good", so how do I deal with that?

By taking care of yourself when that happens.

I agree with last poster (FF)... .you get lost in this. The focus shifts to him.  Your focus continues to move toward an external locus of control, outside yourself.  

Why not just keep the focus on yourself and your own self soothing and your own boundaries and your own choices?  

When you take care of yourself well, you stop playing the "what about how the other person reacts?" game.  You stop venting so much about 'other' and start becoming curious about yourself.  And you grow to accept that there are consequences to having either good boundaries or bad boundaries.  There are always consequences either way.

We have no real control over someone else.

There are no prefect unions.  Maybe in his natural state, he's just not a person who is all that comfy with close connection bottom line... .who knows?  There is NOTHING you can do to alter of fix him anyway.  Your NOT having good boundaries isn't fixing anything for him or for yourself.  At best, it buys you more time in an abusive dynamic by selling out a little part of your soul for the  temporary relief and avoidance of tension that comes with identifying and keeping a boundary and taking care of your SELF.  Having boundaries does not mean you won't be uncomfortable.  You will be uncomfortable.  Not having boundaries hurts, too.  There is no easy path without discomfort. But having boundaries gives you life free of chronic abusive dynamics and ongoing harm. The price we pay is to deal with discomfort of taking care of ourselves which is what a boundary is. It is uncomfortable to say no, to leave, to not comply.  It always will be.  

When you don't have boundaries, there are consequences.  Grave ones.  Like accepting abuse. Like self abandonment.

When you do have boundaries there are also consequences.

In the end it's better for everyone to HAVE boundaries but there are real consequences for all well-boundaried, emotionally healthy individuals.  For example, a really well-boundaried emotionally healthy person may not give themselves permission to engage in a relationship like the one you are engaging in right now. they may have required of themselves to leave a long time ago.  So, they don't get to do what you are choosing to do right now,  and, I'm sure they are missing out on some of the  "good" things that you do feel you are getting by staying so far so long.   There are consequences, some of them discomforting, to almost all choices we make. There is no getting around it.  You will never find a path with no discomfort.  But with boundaries, you will be safer and you have a better chance at having  truly mutual relationships that are healthy enough.  That's the bottom line. Without good boundaries, you can't really have a truly mutual relationship.  It's a choice.

Stop the focus on him, and turn it back to self. Your growth, your boundaries around your 'self' is where the magic is.  It does not rest with him or with a focus on him.  You are moving away from self into FOG when the focus is on him.