MY BPD boyfriend proposed.

[Georgina T]

Hi

I've been dating for the last six-seven months someone that was chasing me for a year. I eventually gave in because I started spending time with him and he won me over. We ended up starting a very passionate relationship. Soon after we started, I had two very serious losses in my family that completely broke me, but he stood by me. Initially I was grateful but soon started to think that something was strange. He pushed me to stop mourning, he started swearing at me, then being overly jealous... .Most of the time we were in dreamland but every so often something would happen and would create chaos. Mostly a 'like' in one of my posts on facebook by a male friend would start a huge fight and being accused for cheating on him. Outbursts of anger started becoming very common and blamed previous hectic lifestyle and work stress. Not much later he hit me. Got drunk, got jealous and bamm... .I was speechless... .He tried so hard to be forgiven, I told him that once was enough and never again. And then the cycle started again. We moved in together, we had an amazing time, made plans for the future. A couple of anger fits but nothing too serious for a few weeks. Then one night we were out and bamm he pushed me and accidentally hit me again, in front of my friends because I smiled to an old friend of mine who apparently he hated. Of course that was the end - or so I thought. I kicked him out of the house and asked him to never speak to me again. The first day or so all I could hear was his angry threats but then he changed. He started seeing a psychiatrist, he admitted to his problems and asked me to stay by him. I did. Another month passed with very few incidents, some anger, but nothing too serious, occasionally some accusations of being unfaithful but at this point I had learned about BPD and I was educated enough to not respond to these accusations nor shout back at him just look the other way till he calmed down. And usually he calms down after a couple of hours or so. So, no major incident and most of the time we are ok.

Yesterday it was my birthday, he took me to my favorite restaurant - japanese, although he doesnt particularly like the food - and at dessert he offered champagne and in it there it was... .an engagement ring... .at this point I said yes, although I know that there will be many times that my patience will be tested... .He has started to admit that all his issues and mistrust are his own problems and that he is seeking help and that he is going to try hard to be a better person so he won''t lose me. He checks all the  marks for being an abusive boyfriend (controlling, jealous, etc), but I have seen signs of improvement since he is being visiting his analyst (twice a week in person with phone calls in between)

He admits that his jealousy stems from his insecurities, he admits that he has been controlling and abusive and of course I have every right to go, he understands that his extreme mood-swings can not be tolerated (i dont tolerate them, I just ignore him and do my own thing or do things with friends and family) and in general, I have seen signs of improvement between us when I also understood what the disease is like and starting paying very little attention in his outbursts. But still, I dont know if I am going to have the patience for the rest of my life to deal with someone like this... .

Yesterday the evening was just too perfect to spoil it with my doubts. But can I really expect a life-long  marriage with someone with BPD even if they are making a very committed effort to heal? What are your thoughts/advice?

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[TheCodependent1]

It is the general consensus among Professionals in the psychiatric community that you will and should expect a lifetime of misery and torment. BPD can't be cured, there is no medication for it, only if the BPD partner commits to a lifetime of DBT, chances are you will be destroyed from the inside out until there is nothing left of you to give.

[Wrongturn1]

BPD can't be cured, there is no medication for it, only if the BPD partner commits to a lifetime of DBT

This statement may be going a bit far.  I have read some anecdotes on these boards of people with BPD who committed themselves to therapy (typically DBT) and eventually improved to the point where they were asymptomatic (not sure if "cured" would be the exact term, but no longer exhibiting the pathology of BPD).  I have not seen any evidence that a person with BPD must commit to a "lifetime" of therapy to maintain their state of health.

However, physical abuse is a major red flag  , and I have NEVER heard of even one example of a BPD's abusive behavior improving due to a couple getting married.  If anything, it's normal for the BPD symptoms and abuse to get worse after marriage.  This is the staying board and there are rules about what posters are allowed to say here, so I will just encourage you to think VERY carefully about the physical and emotional risks of continuing in a relationship with this person.  Also, I would encourage you to put some thought into what psychological factors might be at play that make you think it is acceptable to remain in a relationship with someone who has physically assaulted you multiple times.  I would encourage you to work through those issues of yours and see if that has any bearing on your decision to commit to someone with BPD.

[Notwendy]

Ultimately, the choice is up to you. However, I see some aspects of your story to be aware of:

Your relationship has progressed quickly and strongly- pursues you, perhaps idealizes you, wants a quick commitment. Read up on how abusive relationships start and progress.

Read up on the abuse cycle, how after someone hits/hurts their partner, they are extremely remorseful, loving, and draw the partner back in, promising to never do it again, (until the next time when it starts again.)

Read about what can happen when a partner attempts to break off such a relationship. This can be the most dangerous time for the partner as the abusive partner is highly triggered by the potential ending of a relationship and this is the time where the leaving partner is at high danger for being harmed physically by the intense anger that leaving triggers.

Note that it is recommended that people in this kind of relationship have a safety plan for leaving if they choose to. This plan can include professional help if necessary.

Why do I say this? It isn't just because of BPD. BPD can vary in expression and severity. It is a spectrum. Many people with BPD have gotten angry and raged at their partners, but not all pw BPD have hit their partner, and hit/harmed/pushed them more than one time. That is, if it is done once, it is often done again.

I hardly know you, and there are surely good times between you and your BF, but I see a history of intense pursuit, a quick commitment, and - mostly- that he has hit you. I can not tell you what to do as far as staying or leaving this relationship, but IMHO, I would make an informed decision.

In the event that you choose to leave, I would strongly- strongly suggest having a safety plan and seeking professional help before you do. This is because, when there is a history of physical abuse of any kind, choosing to leave has significant statistical risks.

[Georgina T]

Thank you very much for your replies... .I know that you are right... .I know this a red flag... .The truth is that after he hit me we split and i kicked him out and he didnt try to do anything... .He visited 3 therapists, he started with one that best suited him ( checked him out, he is considered among the top psychiatrists and able to deal with BPD). He told me that he realized that something was seriously wrong with him because he hit me and that he hated himself for doing so... .It is all going too fast I know... I've asked for time delay to spend some time together - not move in together yet - before we are sure about the wedding and that in the meantime he shows committment to his therapy sessions. He complied... .So I am giving the benefit of doubt and staying vigilant... .I know that hitting is a red flag, but one slam is not my biggest problem... .psychological abuse is more important... .During dinner when he proposed, before he did, an ex of mine (that he knows) walked in the restaurant and came and kissed me (on the cheek of course) and my BF was very polite and greeted him without showing any discomfort or anger which surprised me a lot. In a nutshell, I've said 'yes'to the proposal, I am wearing the ring, but told him that we might easily break up if he starts becoming remotely insulting or abusive. He agreed that his behavior has been intolerable... .I actually think that his proposal was more a gesture for him to be forgiven. When I asked to delay the wedding plans he seemed a bit relieved that I wasnt going to hurry about this... .I don't know. I've had a couple of really bad incidents and a handful of moderately bad. Every other single day he is really a sweetheart... .I know that it is risky business but I am thinking of giving him some more time... .a few months before I decide whether I will go ahead or not. I hope I am not wasting my time... .But he really seems that he understood that we fight because of his problems and he has completely stopped blaming me for anything... .I know this sounds like giving him an excuse. I am also seeing a therapist to figure out whether I also have issues with him or not. I know that my dad slammed my mum twice in their 40+ marriage together and he is the most peaceful and quiet man... .my mum on the other hand has some BD traits. So, if it happened to my dad, who is the most serene person I know, maybe I should not just break everything off two bad incidents... .But the truth is that I am not your usual happy bride to be as deep down I am not sure this wedding will go ahead... .

[Georgina T]

BTW, thank you also very much for suggesting the back up plan for leaving. That was something I hadnt thought... .I've also made arrangements that should I need to break up in the not so distant future I can go and stay with friends for a couple of months in a different country where he can't come. I work from home as long as I have an internet connection, and that is easy for me, but he can't leave his job... .I think that is probably the best contingency plan I can come up with... .I hope it is not needed.

[Notwendy]

I think it is great that you are seeing a T and are also aware of your family or origin. My mother has BPD and while I don't, I was raised in a home where all other family members were taught to be co-dependent. By taught, I mean it was "normal"- that behavior was expected of me, and that is the perspective I was raised with. For many of us, what felt normal growing up ( even if one parent was disordered and we knew that) can affect our choices of partners later on. If we have poor boundaries, we can accept behaviors that really are not acceptable.

"Abuse" is really a strange mix in many cases. My image of abusers was that they severely beat their partners- from movies, TV.  It took me a long time to comprehend that sometimes these situations are less obvious than the examples I saw on TV or in the movies.

It is a cycle.  :)isordered people have a hard time managing their bad feelings.The disordered person is sorry, remorseful, and really tries hard, but somehow their bad feelings get harder to manage, or they get triggered, and it all comes out. Then, they feel shame and try very hard. Yes, it is possible that the engagement is a gesture of forgiveness, and that he is sorry, but without serious personal work on his part, it could be a pattern.

Emotional abuse is harmful. I think that when people consider physical abuse as a red flag, it is because the person has crossed a line to physical abuse. This is a boundary consideration and it has to do with the effects of the anger feelings on a person. Biologically, anger changes us. The part of our brain that is activated by anger is very primitive. It is a survival part, sometimes called the "lizard brain". We all have one and it acts the same in everyone. It tends to overcome the higher thinking part of our brain. However, even when our lizard brain is activated, and we may say things we regret, or yell, or get stressed, if the part of us that knows it is wrong to hit someone can stay intact, we don't hurt people when we are mad.

There are people who think it is OK to yell or rage at someone, but not OK to hit them. They may get mad, but as mad as they get, they will not cross this line because they have a boundary that it is wrong. This means that in the heat of the moment, they have kept this part of their judgement. Where physical abuse gets concerning is that in the heat of the moment, this boundary is overcome. The person knows that hitting others is wrong, but his judgement is overcome when angry. This means that the anger can potentially escalate to serious physical harm, because, in the heat of the moment, the person's rational mind is overcome with emotion.

In these situations, the partner can walk on eggshells out of fear of enraging their partner. Bu since this way of managing feelings is intrinsic to the person, their partner can not control it by trying to behave in an accommodating way. We all get angry, but not everyone gets angry to the point of overcoming their judgement in the moment.

So while your fiance is remorseful, knows it is wrong to hit somebody, when he is not angry, can control his anger to some degree when he is motivated, and is a really sweet person, the behavior that also needs to be considered is how much control he has when he is in a full rage. Because that is when the potential for physical harm is there.

BPD is a spectrum and while many people with BPD may say or yell hurtful things when angry, not all people with BPD express this by physically hitting someone. There is not one size fits all decision for being in a relationship with someone with BPD as people with BPD are still their own individuals.

It is good that you are taking your time with this. Your fiance may be sweet and kind, but if he is capable of physical harm when he is angry, then this is something to seriously consider.

[Georgina T]

Yes, you are absolutely right... .

I also have some co-dependence habits. That's because as you say I was 'taught'to behave a certain way... .and I think that had I not been involved with my BF/fiancee I would not have realized... .all my previous partners were really gentle and although we had fights never came to the point of abuse

On my fiancee I know that triggers will come back. I forgot to mention that when he hit me, he had not shown any signs of abuse before. Yes, a couple of times that he was enraged with jealousy, but that was over the phone and by the time we met, he was very sweet again. The two times he hit me, he had come back from work very stressed and we had gone out, so he had quite a few drinks without having eaten anything... - the first time completely drunk, he didnt even remember hitting me the next day, he didnt remember the incident at all. There was no other abuse before that. The emotional abuse (anger, raising his voice, calling me names etc) all came after this.

A couple of times I have intentionally made him angry and he did shout but he didn't touch me... .although he said angrily 'I should hit you but I won't' , he didnt.

He of course, feeling guilty and shame, he tries to put down the importance of him crossing that line. I dont know if it is because he actually feels that it is not important or because he can not bear the burden of the severity of his actions. I think it is more that this way he finds a way to live with himself.

I've checked with his family. He has always been very jealous of his ex girlfriends and always picked up fights with his close friends but also with his family, especially his father. They told me that he has a history of hitting things, not people (of course they werent in front of all his incidents.)

His mother swears that her son loves me, and that he means it and that I should be patient. Every time we have a fight they side by me, even his mom, and I think that makes him angrier, but also makes him understand that his behavior is not tolerated by anyone.

Oh, I really don't know... .I really don't know why I just wont give up on him and go. There is no one in my friends and family group that is really pleased to my engagement and of course we keep a very low profile with no set wedding date yet - nor will we set it in the near future. The one thing that actually makes me stay for at least a while is that I think he is doing so really well with his therapy that I dont want to have the guilt that he will give it up and go back to his old bad habits (go drinking after work and avoid intimate relationships). That and the fact that I am still in love with him, despite his seriously bad actions. However, my feelings are wearing thin and I feel myself just waiting for him to slip and that's not fair. I try to focus on work and just be positive and hopefully things will turn out for the best, one way or another.

Again, I can't thank you enough for your messages. It is amazing to talk to people who know what it feels like... .

[Georgina T]

Also, the other thing that I must say is that maybe a couple of slaps in the face may have not raised a red flag for me because I used to do kickboxing for some years and have very frequently been hit of course during practice... having a black eye was not uncommon to me those years.

Yet, I must understand that as you say, things might escalate and it is not the same to get a punch during a kickboxing practice and it is not the same when your angry partner doesnt think twice before hitting... .not the same thing at all. And even if a slap is ok, things might escalate. I have to remind that to myself constantly. I can not say that I have been walking on eggshells so much, unfortunately I am the kind of person that will not shut up, but I started being quiet and commenting on his behavior when he is less tense. I can see he is making an effort. I just dont know if it will be enough. Now he knows, the moment he touches another hair we are off for good - it is me who needs to respect that... .not him I guess...

[Notwendy]

I think you are aware of the red flags and your own tendencies, which is good. While constantly looking for the bad may not be a good idea, neither is ignoring them and hoping for the best. If you can remain objective and focus on making a rational decision ( is this relationship good for me?) rather than feeling guilty and responsible for him, you may gain some clarity. This is hard when you love someone, but you need to love yourself too. Yes, the boundary about him hitting you is something you need to respect. In the heat of the moment, he may not, but then, you will know, because people get angry. It's human nature. We will get angry, but not everyone hits other people when they are. Drinking makes it more likely to lose judgement, but it is also unlikely that someone will not drink, unless they are in some kind of sobriety program encourages staying sober and they are working hard at it.

Marriage does not change these dynamics.

It is hard to make a decision when you also love someone. His mother may be advocating for him, not to get you to stay with him, but because, she loves him. Makes sense that moms love their kids and see the best in him. We need our moms to love us! But she may also be thinking of his best interests, not yours. This isn't because she doesn't love you. She is just seeing things from a mom's side. One thing to consider is if his mother is an enabler though, because these things tend to run in family patterns.

Yes, she sides with you because you want the best for her son, but are you advocating for what is best for you? You need to be your strongest advocate. Growing up co-dependent, we may not know how to do this, but it is in our best interest to learn and you can pursue this in therapy.

It might be good for her son for you to stick by him. But is it good for YOU? That is your part to decide.

[HopefulDad]

BTW, thank you also very much for suggesting the back up plan for leaving. That was something I hadnt thought... .I've also made arrangements that should I need to break up in the not so distant future I can go and stay with friends for a couple of months in a different country where he can't come. I work from home as long as I have an internet connection, and that is easy for me, but he can't leave his job... .I think that is probably the best contingency plan I can come up with... .I hope it is not needed.

This is the staying board and I want to abide by the rules, so humor me and please try this exercise:

Pretend you are someone else.  Then read what you wrote above, pretending it didn't come from you.  Ask yourself, "Who writes stuff like this about having contingency plans of leaving their fiance?  Is that what marriage should be about?"

I've said this to so many others who are in your shoes: You are blessed to have some insight into this disorder before tying the knot.  Most of us here were ignorant (willfully or not) and had to learn how to deal with this after the fact.  Treat your knowledge as a precious gift to help guide you in your decisions moving forward.

Best wishes to you no matter which path you choose. 

[Georgina T]

You are absolutely right... .Echoing my thoughts and my worries. I think the worst thing I can do is just wait for the worst... .I know things will not disappear but we must learn to control our tendencies.

I asked him to delay the wedding for at least a year till we are both certain that this is good for us both and to see how he is progressing with his therapy. He was fine with that. He told me, if you dont want to get married, it's ok. If you want to get married tomorrow, it is still ok... .if you want to get married in five years it is still ok. Whatever you want he told me. All I want, he said, is to just be with you... .

So for now, we are just enjoying time together and wait and see. I think for now, that's the best approach...

Yes, I do love him, I am also very aware of his issues and mine. I would like to see this as an opportunity for both of us to grow out of our issues.

With your support in this forum and understanding other people's experiences I think it will be a much more educated effort... .

Thank you very much...

[woofbarkmeowbeep]

My story sounds somewhat similar to yours. My BPDex was in therapy for a year (both group and single) and said she was in control of her issues... was aware of her issues... knew she had to deal with x y and z. She was very loving and kind and caring towards me and demonstrated that she was on top of things in various ways... Over some time she convinced me to move across the country to be with her. I did. One week later she had sex with her ex. Two weeks later she kicked me out, screaming, telling me she would call the cops etc... Wrote a 9 page letter telling me everything was my fault. That I was a bad person. That her doing what she did was because of me.

The thing that changed everything was me moving there. Despite how much she wanted me to come, begged me to come,  it was when she got what she wanted that it all fell apart and went rapidly down hill. Replace 'moving in' with 'marriage', and I would anticipate a similar scenario.

In fact I was just speaking to a friend the other day who was in a similar situation. Whirlwind romance, got married... and then everything changed. Abuse, both emotional and physical... She put up with it for 3 years before she ended it. She came out of it all a shell of what she once was.

If I were you I would do some serious research into BPD behaviour especially around these big life events like marriage etc...

And in short, I would be extremely hesitant about marriage in this situation.

[Notwendy]

I think this kind of thing stems from idealization. This is the person of their dreams. If they only "had" the person of their dreams, all would be wonderful. However, since their bad feelings and emotions stem from within, and humans are their own people ( not an idealization) inevitably, the person of their dreams fails them.

Books that really helped me to see this picture are the ones by Patricia Evans on verbal abuse. Although they are written as a male ( abuser) female (spouse) perspective they could apply to any gender couple. They explained how the partner becomes the ideal "Teddy" object that will soothe the feelings. When Teddy complies, all is good. But inevitably, "Teddy" is actually a real person who has a mind of their own, and when the person appears, and Teddy is gone, it provokes the pain and anger in the abusive person. Since the person sees this as something "Teddy" does to hurt him, he punishes "Teddy".

This is a paradox in abuse. We think of the person being abused as a victim. However, in the moment, the person doing the abuse feels as if he/she is a victim of the pain being inflicted on them and lashes out, blaming the partner.The partner may try to WOE to avoid triggering that pain, but the pain is not their responsibility. Once the anger is over, the person who is abusive can realize what they did, be very remorseful, loving and promise that it won't happen again.

Not all pw BPD physically abuse others. The drama triangle also helped me understand the dynamics that may lead to the rages and lashing out verbally or other behaviors. I think it is important to understand the role of the partner in these dynamics as well.

[Georgina T]

Thanks guys... .I guess I don't want to admit... .

For the moment, things are going very well and he seems to be committed to his therapy sessions which is a great thing. He knows that although I am wearing the ring, it doesnt mean anything. At first sign of him going back to his old ways he knows that I am out.

I've postponed the wedding for a year and have explicitly told him that we will not even think about it for at least another six months; then we shall see. I believe even two months will be a good time indicator to see if he is wearing a mask or if he is really onto the road to recovery... .

BTW, do BPD symptoms stay 'dormant'? I mean not for a few days or a couple of weeks, but for months? It has been over a month since any 'sign'... .

[HopefulDad]

Thanks guys... .I guess I don't want to admit... .

For the moment, things are going very well and he seems to be committed to his therapy sessions which is a great thing. He knows that although I am wearing the ring, it doesnt mean anything. At first sign of him going back to his old ways he knows that I am out.

I've postponed the wedding for a year and have explicitly told him that we will not even think about it for at least another six months; then we shall see. I believe even two months will be a good time indicator to see if he is wearing a mask or if he is really onto the road to recovery... .

BTW, do BPD symptoms stay 'dormant'? I mean not for a few days or a couple of weeks, but for months? It has been over a month since any 'sign'... .

I think giving yourselves time is a great idea... .mostly for you rather than him.  Because the truth is phrases like "road to recovery" and "symptoms" are not the best analogies when it comes to partners with PDs, although I understand what you are trying to say.  His brain is wired like this and it can take years, even decades to rewire it with a commitment to DBT.  Hope he develops good PD management skills, mostly through mindfulness, and don't expect a "cure".

Time is good for you because you can really think long and hard for what you are signing up.  This staying board isn't for people looking to fix their pwBPD... .nor waiting for their pwBPD to fix themselves.  It's for people who are willing to improve their relationship by making changes within because they cannot expect their pwBPD to change.  The tools here can and do work: You can set and enforce boundaries to reduce or eliminate poor behavior... .but you cannot change the mindset that drove that behavior.  You can do S.E.T. and it might help.  You can avoid J.A.D.E.ing and it can cut down on the endless back-and-forth arguments.  But make no mistake that this is work.  A lot of work.  And often you feel like you are the only one putting in all this extra work to make the relationship work.  As yourself: "If he never changes, am I up for this effort?"  Like everyone else on this staying board, only you know the answer.

To answer your question regarding dormant symptoms: My pwBPD made great strides that lasted months... .then all fell apart and it was back to square one.  Not so coincidentally, that pattern coincided with attending, then quitting therapy.  After months, my pwBPD thought she was "cured" and decided she didn't need any more help.  My understanding is that this is common.  You should be prepared for this in case it goes the same way for you.

[Notwendy]

I would like to make a suggestion. It makes sense to base your decision in part on his behavior and his dedication to therapy. It is also a good idea to put off the wedding to take your time to decide about this. Yet, looking at his behavior puts the control in his hands- and yes, people with BPD can be very motivated to manage their behavior. This is part of the nature of BPD.

This year that you are taking is a great opportunity to look at yourself- work on yourself- your FOO issues, any co-dependency traits. Emotionally, the two of you match in some way, the cycle plays out between the two of you. I think IMHO, to get any clarity to this situation- you have to work on yourself- take the focus off him and onto you. Whether or not you stay with your fiance, you will benefit from this personal work.

[Georgina T]

Well, I guess if there is one thing that is good about BPD is that it is very predictable. Only 8 days after he proposed, we broke up.

He was incredibly angry, calling me names, had a fight, all because I stood up to him calling me names.

He became violentish throwing pillows at me and small objects and pushing me but eventually took his stuff, left my keys and left.

His argument was that I was too "man"and not a woman. I never understood what that meant. I guess standing up to his anger and not just silently accepting his rage

Well, other than the fact that I am really devastated because all that comes after a period of extreme happiness together, it all went relatively quickly... .a 30min fight and out the door

He didnt want to leave, he was telling me that he loved me, but he was too drunk, out with his mates and when I told him that I can not tolerate my man to call me names and therefore I can not be with him he threatened with violence.

Anyways, it is done. Period. Heartbroken is too small a word, but it is for the best.

I know that he will re-surface when he gets sobre, but he is too proud to admit to his mistakes, and I am too determined. I didnt see a reason to let go this time and just kiss and make up. I think the unfortunate fact that he was out drinking with his friends before he came in didnt help because a non-BPD doesnt think straight when drunk, let alone someone with the disorder. Very sad, but chin up

[HopefulDad]

Well, I guess if there is one thing that is good about BPD is that it is very predictable. Only 8 days after he proposed, we broke up.

He was incredibly angry, calling me names, had a fight, all because I stood up to him calling me names.

He became violentish throwing pillows at me and small objects and pushing me but eventually took his stuff, left my keys and left.

His argument was that I was too "man"and not a woman. I never understood what that meant. I guess standing up to his anger and not just silently accepting his rage

Well, other than the fact that I am really devastated because all that comes after a period of extreme happiness together, it all went relatively quickly... .a 30min fight and out the door

He didnt want to leave, he was telling me that he loved me, but he was too drunk, out with his mates and when I told him that I can not tolerate my man to call me names and therefore I can not be with him he threatened with violence.

Anyways, it is done. Period. Heartbroken is too small a word, but it is for the best.

I know that he will re-surface when he gets sobre, but he is too proud to admit to his mistakes, and I am too determined. I didnt see a reason to let go this time and just kiss and make up. I think the unfortunate fact that he was out drinking with his friends before he came in didnt help because a non-BPD doesnt think straight when drunk, let alone someone with the disorder. Very sad, but chin up

I'm sorry you're hurting.  If you really do think this is for the best, head on over to the leaving board where it is more appropriate for others to chime in on those kinds of thoughts.

[LadyMars]

It is the general consensus among Professionals in the psychiatric community that you will and should expect a lifetime of misery and torment. BPD can't be cured, there is no medication for it, only if the BPD partner commits to a lifetime of DBT, chances are you will be destroyed from the inside out until there is nothing left of you to give.

Well thanks for the wishful thinking, sunshine! Makes us all so hopeful towards recovery.

[Notwendy]

I agree that the leaving board is the appropriate place for further discussion of this decision. With that I will say that BPD is a spectrum and that is one reason that there isn't one right answer to the question of staying or leaving for each person. However, you have the right to make the best decision for you in your particular situation. I think you have had a chance to see how this man behaves when he is angry and how he treats you. I think you have also seen the cycle of this behavior and you have decided to not consider a lifetime with him. You have the right to make your own decision about this.

Those who choose to stay make their own choices too. Posters who make either decision may want support- different boards for different choices- but still for each to choose.

[Georgina T]

Yes... .to be honest, still havent entirely made up my mind. Still I am hoping. He called me today to ask me to go away for the weekend... .like if yesterday didnt happen. He insists that I provoke him for speaking up.

I know that he loves, me I have no doubt. I feel really really sorry for him for not being able to rise above his condition. I dont know. For the moment I take some distance. It will depend on many things. I am thinking if he insists on getting back together and promises again the moon and the star that I might give in one more time and I am afraid to go either way.

What are your thoughts of couple therapy sessions? Is that something that has helped? I was thinking should the case be that I can't stay away to ask this as a condition

[Notwendy]

I think couple therapy varies in effectiveness, but in general, I think the consensus is that it isn't very effective. I think that what people have found helpful is the non- partner doing the personal work to understand their part in the relationship. While your focus is on him and his behavior- the other side of this situation is you and what it is about you that has led you to attract and be attracted to him. This is an important aspect to consider, whether or not you stay in the relationship.

He insists that I provoke him for speaking up.  It is common for the person to blame their partner for their anger, however, it is your partner who is not able to control his own anger. Everybody gets angry from time to time, but it is his behavior when angry that is a problem. One thing to ask yourself is, if he does this with you, would he also respond this way to any children you may have? If you are considering marrying this man, then this is not just about you but your family and people close to you. If you wish to have children- then is this the person who you wish to be their father?

Since you are uncertain, one suggestion is to post on the undecided board, where there can be discussions of both choices.