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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: How do I make a decision when I don't trust my own feelings?  (Read 789 times)
Cloudy Days
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« on: March 03, 2016, 03:14:09 PM »

I think I need to ask this again, as it is on my mind still. How do I figure out how to trust my own feelings?

My husband has been drinking a lot lately and it is really making me see Red. I have basically tried to ignore it unless he gets abusive because I can't tell him he can't drink. I can choose not to be around him but I can't make him not drink. To be honest he usually passes out pretty quickly after he eats dinner. I learned he was hiding it from me last week, He drank on Tuesday was plastered when I got home, I suspect he is drinking now because he always texts a lot more when he drinks and asks for a lot of things (like looking up stuff). And also starts saying some strange things. He's drinking for sure right now.

Now cut to the thing I need help figuring out, I feel crazy for even considering it, but I need help with this.

My husband won't stop asking to move to Colorado so he can be prescribed medical marijuana, I've asked before on this but I feel conflicted. I've asked to talk to his therapist with him and he refuses, I still want to discuss it with his therapist, because I don't trust my own feelings. I actually texted her today to get some feedback about it. I know for a fact that he doesn't drink if he smokes pot so I am not worried about that. I am more worried about my own abilities to find a job and I don't like that we would have to sell our house that I thought we were going to grow old in (although we now regret buying this particular place), or the fact that we would have to get rid of the two larger dogs, I'm not as attached to them but I still raised them (we would keep them if we could find a place that accepted that many dogs, probably not going to happen). I realize this sounds like insanity to discuss moving away. That's why I want to discuss it.

I have a couple reasons I actually want to move. Reasons not to move-1. My job, it pays decent and has a great benefits package, better than anyone I have talked to and I just don't have confidence in myself to find a good job somewhere else, but I literally can't stand my job, it's boring and unfulfilling 2. I would obviously miss my mother as I see her almost every day at work. And I am also very attached to my Mother in law, but I would still talk to her on the phone 3. Getting rid of a pet sucks let alone two, we have 5 though and can't take all of them, not without owning a home. So my job, mother and Mother in law and pets are the three main reasons not to move. Seems like very big reasons to me.

Reasons I want to move 1. So my husband can smoke Medical Marijuana obviously main reason... .I like it too so I can call that a pro as well and he would stop drinking, all goes along with the one thing 2. I hate my job, it's boring, unfulfilling and I feel like I am wasting my life sitting at a desk, I have gained weight since I sit at a desk all day long too. I wish I could do something I enjoyed doing. 3. I hate the state I live in, I hate their laws I feel like Colorado would be a beautiful place to live with a much more liberal population, that matches my point of view. They also have a lot of places to hike and walk trails something I love but there isn't much of here 4. I feel like it would get rid the drama of my husband's family and some of mine too, if he's not around them he won't have to deal with them (they are all crazies). I know my family would visit occasionally, it's a 9 hour drive not undoable. 5. I feel like moving would be a fresh start to a new life, I've actually dreamed of moving to another state that is beautiful, either mountains or ocean, something I feel like we need. We bought a house in my hometown, not sure why we did that as it comes with baggage and we most certainly aren't staying there for life no matter what happens 6. I feel like if things did go bad in Colorado, I could pack my stuff and leave and my husband wouldn't follow me back to the home state (to be clear, not looking for this to happen but it could). 7. I would move with someone that wasn't my husband who was stable, his emotional problems are what holds me back, but when he was smoking the pot most of his emotional problems ceased to exist so I don't feel this is a valid reason for not moving.

To be clear when he has marijuana, he's a different person, We have went 4-5 months without a problem when he was doing it and the problems usually came up after he ran out. I know it is part escape, but medications aren't working and he keeps reaching for the bottle. Is this really an insane thing to consider? I feel like it is with the way things are with us. The main reason I am posting on deciding or Conflicted because in reality there are two other options, We split and he moves on his own to Colorado. We stay together and he does it in our home state, illegally and could possibly get our home taken away (he plans to grow it because buying from a dealer is also dangerous and more expensive). I'm not so invested in this relationship that I am not afraid to lose him. He's said over and over again that the only reason he hasn't left is because he loves me. We do have something there, he has gotten significantly better, I owe him that much to say he has worked on himself. I feel he is depressed because he reaches for alcohol because it is legal. He takes the meds too and honestly I think they make him depressed too, and I can tell that they make him slow (thinking).

Can I get some feedback on this? I feel selfish for not considering it because it would help him. He's not just BPD, he has PTSD and a Traumatic Brain Injury and I have read several studies as to why it actually helps him. And it does, I have seen it first hand.
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2016, 03:50:33 PM »



OK, my first vibe from you post is that you are ok with moving, but there are details that need to be worked out.

Details can be handled.  A job is a big detail.

Am I on the right track?

So, is there a particular place you want to go or if a job comes up in poohdunk, Colorado, are you ok with moving there.

I would think about starting a job search, but I would think long and hard about telling your hubby.  Do you think your hubby would be able to work out there? 

My basic thought is since the vibe I got is there are benefits to going, look for a job, get a job, and go.  I would NOT move and start looking for a job, unless you have some big cash saved up.

FF
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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2016, 03:59:45 PM »

Your #1 reason not to move is head-and-shoulders above other reasons, pro and con.

That's because your job gives you the power to escape if necessary. The income and benefits it provides prevent you from being trapped with your husband. That's a power I would encourage you not to surrender.

I think that, rather than looking at this as a list of pros and cons, you consider the range of likely scenarios. Best-case scenario -- you get a job in Colorado, your husband gets his marijuana and becomes a more pleasant person, making your life together more tolerable. Do I have that right?

Worst-case scenario -- you move to Colorado, you are unemployed and without independent resources, your husband gets his marijuana but he doesn't get better -- in fact, he gets worse, because the stress of moving and of changes in social structure and finances cause him to act out even more aggressive BPD behaviors -- all targeted at you. And you've cut yourself off from your social network and financial resources.

There are other possible scenarios between these two, of course. I have never seen a circumstance where just giving in to a mentally ill person's demand for an external change cures them. What do you think the probabilities are?
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2016, 08:38:51 AM »

Another thing you may want to consider is the cost of living in Colorado, especially housing. While there are inexpensive places to live there, the downside is that there aren't many jobs in those areas. I would definitely not move without another job in place as the competition in Colorado is fierce - everyone and their brother has been moving there lately.
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2016, 10:21:09 AM »

Would there be any harm in you quietly looking into job opportunities there? I'd approach this like you are not making a decision, you are information gathering to make a decision. Personally I would not move unless I had a job set up. It seems to me you are thinking very clearly. I live in a legal pot state, you could move here 
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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2016, 11:10:01 AM »

I'm somewhat ok with moving, I like the thought of it, but the particulars are worrisome. I would be open to Washington and Oregon too, but Colorado is next to my home state so it would be easier to visit family, that's the main reason why I would choose that state, although I actually have cousins in Oregon, but I haven't seen them since I was 2.

I know that my job is the main reason, it's the one thing I have put my foot down on. There could be a chance that I could actually keep the same company that I work for but a job opportunity would need to open up and I have been waiting for that for awhile now. There are some in Texas and that isn't a pot friendly state and all the others are sales rep jobs, I am not a salesman. Thought about moving to Chicago but it didn't seem like the right city and they have strict pot laws so it's not guaranteed he would get approved for it. Also I've heard stories about the crime in Chicago, Yikes!

I have an Esop account they give me that I can take money out of once a year, that would be our moving money. If I quit I would get the rest of it but I don't know how long it takes to get it. It's actually the main reason I want to keep the job, It's Employee owned and they aren't skimpy on how much they give you, it's truly a great place to work for and on top of that they give you a 401K and they pay my health care. It's a lot to think about. I don't think I would have a problem finding a job, it would be a problem finding a worth while job, I can work for $9 an hour at Walmart but that's chump change. I could also substitute teach, but that would take time to set up and it's not guaranteed money.

I think the biggest hurdle would be to coordinate selling our home, It's a doublewide and we can't sell it for less than what we bought it for. It will probably be on the market for awhile. It was on sale for 3 months before we bought it. We bought it because we wanted some land and couldn't afford land and a house. I know there are people looking for the same thing. So the plan would be to apply for Esop money and put house on sale. Once we got offer on house (may take 3-4 months) I would start looking for a job because it takes about 3 months for the sale to go through. Once I found a job we would look for housing around that job.

I know that my reasons for not moving are extremely valid and very good reasons not to move. I'm not really worried about being stuck with him because I know if I asked my mother or even his mother for money to leave they would do it in a heartbeat. He gets a social security check, we can't live off of his check it's not enough. But he could probably do it if he found the right place to live in. I would make clear boundaries about what I expect from him if we move. 

I talked to him more about it last night while he was drunk, which ended with him storming off and going to bed. And then he was back to the good guy this morning and telling me everything I want to hear. I don't know how long it will last but he said he would lay off of it for awhile, at least that means a peaceful weekend. It reminds me of why I am still with him, he really can be Mr. Wonderful. It almost makes me sad because I know it's not going to last forever.

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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2016, 12:09:18 PM »



Cloudy Days,

Hey, I think this thread and the time you describe here is a good thing.  From someone that just moved and had it blow up in my face (see my other threads), I think there are a number of things that you need to do to protect YOU!

OK, I'm a planner and I am a big proponent of getting "the order" of things right so you don't get screwed. 

Facts we need to confirm.

Is your hubby on social security?  Is that going to change anytime soon?  How much is he allowed to work/make before potentially affecting that?   Please find this info out and get back to me.  This will affect boundaries/agreements for the next move. 

Listen, there are times when your have leverage and times when you don't.  A move is a time of leverage, especially when he is the one that wants the move.  I recommend you use this to PROTECT YOU to the max extent possible.

Tell me again about kids.


The order of things

1.  Have 2-3 realtors come out and look at house.  Probably best NOT to involve hubby in this decision/part of the plan.  You need to get a solid market analysis without getting his hopes up.  Be persistent about asking each realtor what can be done to help the house sell better.  Get to work on these things.  Especially if they make life better in the chance that you stay.

2.  Start looking for job now, don't wait.  You never know when you get an offer you can't refuse.  Accepting a job offer is different than looking.

3.  Evaluate rental market in the area.  Let's say your home sells but no new job comes up, how much $$ to live temp before a job comes open.

4.  Evaluate decluttering/selling off stuff in your home.  Will make move easier and decluttering is always good even if you stay.

5.  Take an intrusive look at your budget, savings and compare it to cost of living in new location.  Do NOT involve hubby in this until YOUR analysis is complete.  You need to start living life as if you were under your new cost of living in new location.  I'm assuming it will be worse.  Add in 10% comfort factor, as in save an extra 10% over and above new cost of living expense for padding.  (more if able).

Listen as I have read your story I am a fan of you moving.  You have seen your hubby after smoking and KNOW he was more stable.  Is there any reason to think he would not be as stable this time around?

Last thought:  Perhaps go to legal to continue this part of the discussion.  I would evaluate a post-nuptial agreement.  Again, don't involve him until you know what you want/need.  Purpose of this is to provide a framework for ending the marriage if he goes off the rails in new (or future) states.

Yes I have some unanswered questions, but right now my winds of change are blowing Cloudy Days to a new state, provided we can care for big issues and do things in the right order.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

FF

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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2016, 12:33:32 PM »

No kids, just the dogs. But I am attached to them.

Husband is on Social Security Disability Insurance, Can't work at all but as long as he keeps getting treatment he won't be cut off. Big thumbs up for that, he doesn't want to be cut off

I have no doubt in my mind that if he has pot available to him that he will stabilize, I don't think I can stress enough, he literally stopped drinking for 3 years. The only times he did drink was when the pot dried up. Big reason for not staying in a state where you can't just go to a store and get it. Honestly, his main end all screw ups have happened because his source dried up and he ended up drinking and doing something irreversible before finding more. Shamefully my father was his last source and he passed away last year. But lets not get into my screwed up family.

I'm going to keep an eye on my company for jobs, I have been doing this for a couple years now, this move is not something that is new, he's been wanting to move to California since I met him. I knew it when I married him so I can't complain about that. I drew a line on California though, way too high cost of living. His brother lives there and is struggling.

I would have enough money from the Esop to live on for several months, don't want to blow it on living though. My husband has actually been looking at this constantly, he's found a lot of rent to own homes and even rentals. This is why we fight most of the time is because I don't look at them because we have no money yet. Why look at something if it won't be available for when you actually need to move.

I've actually started to sell some of my stuff off. My husband not so much, although I have mentioned it to him several times. He seems to think a weight machine that he doesn't use is an important thing to keep, I can't imagine moving that thing again. I am working on my stuff though. Moving only a year ago, we've actually already done this a lot but that's not the same as moving 9 hours away.

Thanks for your insight, I don't feel so crazy for considering it now. I can't get the money till May and I've already told my husband he needs to make the house look nice for buyers, if he's committed to it he will do it.
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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2016, 12:42:27 PM »



You are not crazy for this plan.

You will have to be more involved in house fixup.  He can help, you will be the one to get it right.  Unless something magical happens.

Look at other companies too.  Again, you never know when you get an offer you can't refuse.

"loosen up your tent stakes" and be ready.  That is very different than actually packing up your tent.

DO NOT use ESOP money to live on.

FF
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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2016, 12:59:25 PM »

The Esop money wouldn't be all of it, I can only take a percentage, and we are trying to save as much as we can. Unfortunately we bought a place a little out of our means. Kicking ourselves for it now.

I have been keeping an eye on jobs too.

My husband is actually pretty good at improvements, it's people he's not good at. That's the main reason he got his disability approved, not able to work with others. Landscaping is going to be the main project because the house hasn't been changed much from a year ago when we bought it, we have actually added improvements. I picked out the paint, he painted it all for me, I helped a little but he's OCD about that stuff (that's what he did for a living). He's very useful when he wants to be. I always try to remind myself of these things because I can get stuck on the bad so often.

I think I have a mental hurdle that I have been working through. I am one of those people that resists change and it makes me uncomfortable to think about things so big. Not because it is undoable but because I have always let anxiety run my life, I think that is one of the reasons I am trying for this move. Because I am coming out of my shell and gaining more confidence in myself. Got to say it may have never happened without the challenges of my husband.
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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2016, 02:08:06 PM »

I think that moving and giving up your job (and your ability to support yourself) would be a terrible risk, and I hope you don't do that.

That said, you like the company you work for, but not the actual job. I'd suggest you make your long-term focus to find either a better job (one you enjoy) with your company, or some other job that seems better with good benefits, etc.

I'd also draw your attention to your prior choice to buy this property and move. If I remember correctly, this is a better place than where you used to be for you, and that makes it a good choice. I also remember that you thought it would make your H happier, as it would fix some of the things he complained about... .and it obviously hasn't gone that way.

Please don't make any other major life choices based on a hope that things will be better for your husband. Only do it if you are sure it will be better for YOU. If you think it will be better for him, consider that a bonus, but don't count on it.
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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2016, 02:33:02 PM »

Good points GK.

I have thought about my job for a long time, been here for 8 years and the only reason I stay is because of the benefits. I find myself slacking a lot of the time because I don't like the job. The only plus is that I don't have a boss hanging over my head, so I can spend a lot of time reading these boards. Any job I would get with this company would be very similar to the one I have now, it would just be in a different place.

I've felt unhappy about it for awhile. So a Job change actually give me a little hope about things. Part of me being depressed is that I feel unfulfilled at my job.

Honestly, we both wanted to buy a home together. It was not done only for his happiness, actually the location was for my happiness because it was close to my family. My father died days after we made an offer on the house and within a couple months after we moved in my mother moved to another town. It is a better place than where we lived before, we had a ton of problems with the neighbors, problems anyone would have complained about. The guy next to us had a dog that barked constantly and would throw loud parties on the weekends. We had a feud with him because we called the cops on him because his dog didn't have shelter or water in 100 degree weather. We also had problems with him throwing food in our yard for our dogs, even found chicken bones! Then there were the drunks across the street that would sit on their porch and drink all night long and any time we would leave the house they would basically heckle us. I could keep going on other neighbors, but it was a bad neighborhood to live in. We had things stolen from our back yard, our mail stolen, the list goes on. Heck there was even Train right down the street and a shooting range, none of this was good for someone suffering from PTSD. The house wasn't the problem, it was the constant noise and the neighbors that was the problem.

We don't have problem with the neighbors at this house, they keep to themselves and the one next to us we buy produce from, eggs and honey even. The only thing that sucks is the house is a doublewide and it's not as sturdy as we had hoped, also spending a lot of heating a cooling. Our real estate agent warned us not to buy one but we wanted the land and peacefulness that came with it. That we still love about the place, there is a lot we both still love about the place. If pot were legal we would stay here.
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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2016, 03:25:12 PM »



Having lived there for a year, you are going to take a hit when you sell it.

Another reason to sell it first, so you know exactly the impact on your money, before doing any move.

FF
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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2016, 03:31:38 PM »

Having lived there for a year, you are going to take a hit when you sell it.

Another reason to sell it first, so you know exactly the impact on your money, before doing any move.

FF

Yea, this was part of my fear, we spent so much time looking for this house, it has it's ups and downs. Everything he complains about are valid complaints and now that we are regretting the house, we know that mobile homes even on a foundation don't increase in value unless we do something drastic to the place, so we are really regretting that fact. To me, selling sooner rather than later may be a good idea because of that alone. I wish we could have taken our time to look for more houses. Our living situation was awful we really wanted to get out of that place. To be fair the people we bought it from went down $15,000 so we are hoping we can at least get what we paid for it.
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« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2016, 05:52:35 PM »



I've done quite a bit of real estate as a side business.  Mobiles are not that good of an investment for reason you have detailed. 

I've tried to make the numbers work on many different deals but haven't ever ended up buying a mobile.

I would take this reason and put it in the "pushing for a move" category. 

FF
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« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2016, 09:06:48 AM »

Well, I was told yesterday that I am going to lose my job at the company that I am a contractor for.

The actual company that I work for told me I could potentially move to any branch I wanted to and be a CSR, see why I wanted to stay with them, they are really awesome to their employees. As of right now I am out of a job on May 1st, started doing some digging about a few things and they came clean about it that they are replacing the company that I work for with another company. My company is going to work with me and try and have me work from home as a CSR for now.

Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. My husband is being supportive, we had some tense moments as I am on edge and don't respond to his 50 questions well.
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« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2016, 10:03:41 AM »

Rats. I'm so sorry to hear that.
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« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2016, 10:10:40 AM »

I'm a bit in shock, I can imagine it's going to be like the stages of grief, I'm pretty angry right now. I am thankful that my company is not going to just drop me.
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« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2016, 10:16:46 AM »

  That really sucks. Take good care of yourself while you sort this out.

A friendly reminder--taking care of yourself means not exposing yourself to new hurts from your H.

Yes, he is being supportive--within his capacity, which is limited as you well know.

He doesn't have much empathy in him. He cannot validate you well, if at all. He cannot deal with his own uncomfortable feelings. He will not be able to hear your difficult feelings without responding badly.

You will go through those stages of grieving, like feeling angry. Do you have other friends you can safely share those feelings with besides your H?
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« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2016, 10:34:39 AM »

Honestly he isn't too bad on the supportive end, when my Dad died he was a great support to me, I thought he would freak because death is a big trigger for people with BPD and he had his moments but for the most part he got me through it all and was super supportive to my mother. He actually said he was going to do laundry for me today, which hasn't happened since we moved to the new house.

I do talk to his mother and my mother a lot, they are also very supportive. I didn't leave high school with a lot of friends, I literally had one friend when I met my husband and I lost her along the way, as I have said before, I don't think she had a personality disorder but she didn't treat me with much respect.
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« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2016, 11:29:04 AM »

He is very capable of doing things like laundry for you, or other physical support, and it will be good for both of you that he does. 

His ability to give you deep emotional support, empathy, and validation is much more limited. Some pwBPD have zero. He may be a lot better than that, but he still has his limits, and either in how much he can do, or how long he can keep it up for you. Don't expect him to be much better than he's been in the past.
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« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2016, 11:44:25 AM »

I'm not, I have come to not expect much from him. It works better that way because when he does do things for me (and he does) I am happy about it rather than disappointed when he does nothing. Not an ideal way to look at things but it's better than being disappointed all the time.
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« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2016, 06:55:24 PM »

This certainly changes things.    It does give you freedom to potentially move somewhere else and to have a job at home in the interim, but it sounds like it opens a lot of doors and creates a lot of uncertainty too. It's nice that the company you work for is being so supportive. You're obviously a valued employee.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2016, 09:51:00 AM »

We actually went to therapy together yesterday  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) I think it went well. I got to address some of his behaviors that I was unhappy with and she pointed out something that he does on a regular basis (basicially his ability to make everything an emotional attack against him). She also addressed that he keeps making excuses for himself to be put in the victim role. The I was treated this way, I have PTSD, I have Brain Damage so I am allowed to act this way because these things happened to me and I am entitled to it. She encouraged him to stop making excuses. The moving thig has turned into something completely different, it's amazing how he changes his tune when the probability of something becomes more likely. Mainly because he is reluctant to give up our two big dogs, which is understandable, I don't want to either and I am hoping we can figure out a way to keep them if we have to move.

I am having a really hard time going to sleep now, it's been 3 days since I got news about my job and I have been having nightmares and racing thoughts ever since. Really sucks.
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