Ideas on helping son move out

[Parents! Get help here!]

Ok.  I've read a lot of posts from parents helping adult kids move up and out and we are getting close to doing that with uBPDs 20.  I'm feeling ALL the emotions.  He's been working with therapist and on Monday we're all going to try to hack out the details.  We live in Virginia and he wants to move to Dallas, which we're familiar with and have family there.  My question for all of you who have bravely gone before us, what are the financial pitfalls we need to guard against and are we being naive about certain things?  We will be helping him get a car (reliable, but nothing fancy) and helping him with money for the first little bit with all kids of contingencies, i.e. getting any job quickly, having a joint account, continuing therapy there and not allowing him to live with his wackadoodle cousin which has been his plan.  He's bright and articulate and excited about starting over in a new place, but hasn't held a job more than a few months, feels pretty entitled and mostly cannot stand living with us as we are too controlling and in the past invalidating of him.  He's also abused substances in the past when he couldn't cope. In our minds, this is our final attempt at helping him and we're going to be crystal clear about that. There's been wayyy too much enabling in DH's family, so we're all too aware of how that plays out.  I'd appreciate any input about things we might not have considered or things you wished you'd done.

Thanks in advance!  I was feeling super anxious, but then thought of posting here and that alone made me feel so much better.

[AnotherWon]

Ok.  I've read a lot of posts from parents helping adult kids move up and out and we are getting close to doing that with uBPDs 20.  I'm feeling ALL the emotions.  He's been working with therapist and on Monday we're all going to try to hack out the details.  We live in Virginia and he wants to move to Dallas, which we're familiar with and have family there.  My question for all of you who have bravely gone before us, what are the financial pitfalls we need to guard against and are we being naive about certain things?  We will be helping him get a car (reliable, but nothing fancy) and helping him with money for the first little bit with all kids of contingencies, i.e. getting any job quickly, having a joint account, continuing therapy there and not allowing him to live with his wackadoodle cousin which has been his plan.  He's bright and articulate and excited about starting over in a new place, but hasn't held a job more than a few months, feels pretty entitled and mostly cannot stand living with us as we are too controlling and in the past invalidating of him.  He's also abused substances in the past when he couldn't cope. In our minds, this is our final attempt at helping him and we're going to be crystal clear about that. There's been wayyy too much enabling in DH's family, so we're all too aware of how that plays out.  I'd appreciate any input about things we might not have considered or things you wished you'd done.

Thanks in advance!  I was feeling super anxious, but then thought of posting here and that alone made me feel so much better.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

Tips from ME 

Be very clear about what you will pay for and for how long.

If you are open to providing additional funds for groceries and incidentals, establish a set weekly budget... .and don't give him anymore than that (except in cases of unforeseen financial needs... .like having to go to a dr or clinic).

Be mindful of obligating yourselves legally/longterm... .like co signing leases or loans.  You don't want to be held over a barrel if he doesn't meet his obligations.

Put the car in his name else you will be held accountable for providing insurance.  Don't carry him on your policy... .he needs his own (pay the premiums if you choose)

Provide him with a list of local resources to help himself:

Food pantries, homeless shelters, employment services, etc... .before he moves out.

Establish before he leaves whether or not he can come back home if it doesn't work out for him... .there are always extenuating circumstances... .what's your bottom line?

Don't rescue him from the consequences of his choices. 

Be there for emotional support, validation, and validating questions to help him problem solve.

lbj

[AnotherWon]

Thanks so much, lbj!  Those are awesome ideas.  Especially because we really want to drive home that this will be the extent of what we provide and it's going to have an end date, then it really is on him.  We're very ready to let go and he's got a lot of strengths, but yeah, consequences are the only way this one's going to learn and grow up. I'd like to be free of any legal responsibility for him too.

Thanks again!

[Rockieplace]

It is so hard but lbj, as usual, has given excellent advice.  It is always very important, in my opinion, to apply the law of unintended consequences to every decision when it comes to helping out financially or not!  Cars are a minefield in our experience.  But then again, if we went grocery shopping, or clothes shopping for our BPDD33 thinking that it would help her in a constructive way, we only found out later that she spent all of the money this 'freed up' on cosmetic surgery, tattoos, on-line drugs and other highly undesirable stuff.  It is a complete conundrum for which I, personally, have no answers.  Good luck. x

[lbjnltx]

It is so hard but lbj, as usual, has given excellent advice.  It is always very important, in my opinion, to apply the law of unintended consequences to every decision when it comes to helping out financially or not!  Cars are a minefield in our experience.  But then again, if we went grocery shopping, or clothes shopping for our BPDD33 thinking that it would help her in a constructive way, we only found out later that she spent all of the money this 'freed up' on cosmetic surgery, tattoos, on-line drugs and other highly undesirable stuff.  It is a complete conundrum for which I, personally, have no answers.  Good luck. x

So true, I give my d a weekly allowance.  If she chooses to spend it on clothes, video games, or StarBucks that is her choice. Initially she struggled with budgeting and spending choices.  Recently  she has come to me a few times asking for more $ for  groceries.  If I relent (because she had an extra expense of some kind... .like getting her car inspected or having to get her dog vaccinations) I will give her an advance from next week's allowance.  I am very proud of her ability to stay within her budget 95% of the time (pretty good for a 19 year old) and she has voiced to me "I hate to ask because you do so much for me and I need some extra help this week... ."

Would she have learned this if I just gave her money everytime she overspent/spent unwisely... .don't think so.  Since she has learned and does stay within her budget I often "treat" her to dinner out together, a new article of clothing or an occassional $20 to go have some fun.  She suffers from fibromylgia and cannot work at this time + I can afford it.

lbj

[Rockieplace]

A big problem for us is that my d lies to us about so much.  She also feels incredibly entitled.  She complains that we spend money on our 5 yr old granddaughter but are reluctant to 'loan' her money (we have no hope of being repaid) when we know she is being paid in full (she's been suspended from her job for the past 8 months) and is not covering any of her living expenses except for her rent.  All her bills are left unopened which terrifies us as we come from the generation where we had to live within our means.  We are now retired and comfortable after a life of careful saving but my d is so resentful that we could afford to give her more.   I have paid out for her electricity just so that she wouldn't get cut off and many other things which we felt were 'urgent'.  My d never ever expresses any gratitude at all, just rage when we refuse her requests for more money  LBJ - your daughter sounds as if she really does appreciate what you do for her which is lovely.  You have obviously done a good job.  I feel we have failed miserably!

[lbjnltx]

My d and lying were never a huge concern.  Did I do a good job with her?  Yes.  I searched for help for her early on (age 11) and did my due diligence by educating myself, improving myself, leading by example the skills I wished she would use. 

Early intervention and the committment to 10 months RTC at the best place I could find for her was also key.

When our kids lie, or we aren't sure, we revert back to our agreements... .ie... "this is how much $ you have each week... .it's up to you how you spend it".  If they come back with "I have no money for food this week, I can't put gas in the car, I can't pay my rent"... .then we revert back to the list of resources we provided to them:

Food pantry

Public transportation

Homeless shelters

PS.  I can see online where my d uses her debit card as her "free checking account" is tied to my accounts (she has no checks).  I recommend this to any parent who is providing financial support to their kids as it makes transferring $ easy, provides transparency, and auto drafts such as rents and utilities can be set up.  My d's account does not provide overdraft protection. In other words... .she can't overdraw her account, the charges are just denied at the point of sale.

[AnotherWon]

This is so incredibly helpful.  I knew I'd find sound advice and more shared experiences here.  We've got an older daughter out on her own and believe me, she had some missteps.  But our son is so unpredictable that we'd like to safeguard ourselves and him as much as we can.  I realize things are going to come up and we'll all learn a lot as we go.  But any tips or hard-learned lessons from people here does a lot to quell my anxiety surrounding his departure.  I'll definitely be having DH read this thread!

[Dibdob59]

I feel we have failed miserably!

Rockieplace

It is very easy, when reading the experiences and posts of others on this board, to compare ourselves to them and feel as though we have failed.

Please do not do that. It serves no purpose and I am sure it is not true.

All of our situations are different. This includes our children's degree of difficulty, the treatments that are available to them (based on financial constraints/geographical location) and the ages of our children when we finally realised there was actually something seriously wrong with them.

None of us knows the degree of turmoil and distress that the others on this board (and their BPDs) suffer on a daily basis.

Some are further along on the journey than others and as such have developed more skills to cope with this devastating illness.

Please be compassionate with yourself, we are all doing the best we can. 

Dibdob

[lbjnltx]

Thanks Dibdob, all very true.

I didn't do all the right things from day 1.  I'm a big believer in the "do over".  If I didn't use a skill or use a skill properly I can come back later and apologize and then "do it over" in a more helpful way.

We are only responsible for what we know.  Even then there are so so so many obstacles to getting care and support for our kids/ourselves. 

As parents, the love we have for our children is where  our strength, endurance, and relentlessness comes from. 

Parents are amongst the most motivated on this site to affect positive change for our kids and ourselves.

lbj

[AnotherWon]

I'm hoping that by being so far away it will be easier for us to stick with the details we agree upon.  He can be a pit bull when it comes to trying to get his way, but doesn't really pull that long-distance.  I've learned a lot here that I hope to put to use as well.  And I'd like to echo what Dibdob said to Rockieplace. We are all on our own journey. I've had a hard time comparing my life to my friends' kids who are doing great.  I'm sure we've all tried our best with the knowledge we had at the time.  I'm glad I'm here now able to benefit from some of lbj's hard-won wisdom!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Rockieplace]

I'm so glad too for these boards, and thank you ':)ibdob' and 'lbj' for your kindness and encouragement.  We are quite new to this illness as our BPDD33 was only diagnosed 8 months ago when she went into crisis after a series of difficult and tragic events in our family (some of them involving or caused by our BPDD and some not).  I had my suspicions that something more serious was wrong with her over the years.  I have started remembering things in the light of this diagnosis.  I used to say "her vests hurt her! and even her socks hurt her!" when she was little.  Maybe that was a sign that I should have done something. I'm not sure.  It's easy to be wise in retrospect.  Our mental health services here in the UK are in disarray now but I doubt whether they were any better then and I suspect that the doctors would not have been able to do anything at that point in any case as in many respects my daughter seemed OK.  She was very precocious intellectually (reading age of 13 at aged 4) which I think made it possible for her to 'get by'.  Anyhow, I have to stop going over and over the past and accept that 'It is what it is'.  I've never been an envious person but I've been guilty lately of feeling very envious of friends whose daughters (my daughter's ex friends) who are now qualified, getting married etc etc.  I'm very grateful to have found this messaging board though.  It really helps to feel you are not alone and I am devouring the information about how to deal with it all and thereby help my D the best I can although I know I must try harder.  Hugs to all. x 

[Lollypop]

Thanks LBJ for moving this up

rockieplace:  I don't hurt any more when I am exposed to "normal" families so I think I must have moved forward in the process a bit. I accept it, but not always. There are certainly a lot less "friends" than there used to be as I've been dropped along the way; partly down to the drug reputation of my Bpds (we live in a small place) and also my openness to talk about my problems made others uncomfortable. Perhaps this "over sharing" on my part is BPD trait.

Back to the thread: how to get them out of the house?

We are trying to approach this realistically and hope to get to a point where Bpds25 has a good chance of success. We are feeling our way forward week by week with an aim: out by early 2017.

We will NOT buy him a car (binderdondat), pay for insurance or pay back debts, phone costs, buy him clothes or shoes (unless it's a birthday gift or Xmas), we won't pay for him to go on vacation with us. We never lend him money, we've stopped giving him money.

We may help with treatment costs if he makes a move himself towards assessment, help with a deposit and maybe help with regular food while he tries to manage.

L

[Kate4queen]

At 21 we gave my son a set allowance for a year. After that we took another year to gradually wind down that financial support until it was zero. We signed over his car to him and stopped paying his insurance.

It took several months of rage-filled texts, emails and calls for him to get it into his head that we were serious and that we weren't going to pay for fixing his car, or his food or... .

It was hard to do that, but guess what? He got a job, he never goes overdrawn (I can still see his bank account)

I think you have to be clear upfront about what you will and won't pay for and stick to your boundaries. We gave our son an amount of $ that wouldn't impact us on the understanding that we would never be thanked for it, or expect it back. We gave the money freely without strings and didn't attempt to use it as an emotional tie.

[lbjnltx]

Good advice Kate!

[Lollypop]

Hi Kate

I so wished I'd been in this forum 5 years ago but dx only last year. I can see how our loans and even the way money was given would have created a complex emotional response from BPDs. Im learning a better way with the money side of things but something that feels right for all of us. My husband and I find boundaries a challenge (we are at different points in acceptance) so we are currently introducing boundaries that we know will be kept, come hell or high water. We will consistently introduce new ones that are realistic. We can see BPDs will reach a point when he will need to change from casual to fixed employment. Employment is THE biggy for BPDs.

We are working from the opposite direction from yourself. Knowing he chooses self medicating with weed rather than seeking treatment is hard enough, it'd be too much for us to actually hand him money over. So we leave him with the pressure to earn it. We try to build resilience - but are we naive? Time will tell I guess.

Was your son still living at home during the two years of financial support ?

Also, important to say. We would be prepared to pay for treatment but he would immediately feel the pressure of "I'll fail them again". He isn't seeking treatment and so I don't think he's ready to fully engage. So we choose to wait and see. It's frustrating!

Thanks for your advice.

L

[Rockieplace]

Hi again to this thread.  I feel a little bit of an imposter on it as my BPDD33 has lived on her own for many years now and I'm hoping and praying that it can continue, as one boundary we must totally stick to is that she cannot come back to live with us.  It would be a disaster for all concerned.  She is not house trained and we are unable to cohabit for so many reasons which I won't go into here. 

Now, however, with the BPD diagnosis, some of our problems of sharing living space in the past appear more understandable at least. 

I'm writing in support of all of you good people who are in the process of edging their BPD offspring out of the door and whom I wish the very best of luck.  Encouraging independence has to be the right thing to do and the advice above is so helpful. 

As is said so many times on here, I just wish I had known about this illness and these boards sooner.  I feel confident that I would have avoided some of the worst pitfalls - who knows?   

[AnotherWon]

Thanks to everyone for your invaluable input, whether it worked for you or not!  We hadn't talked about plans at all until last week, when we all met at his therapist's. It went well.  We were all on the same page about most stuff.  He agreed that living with his cousin is a disastrous idea, thank goodness.  Set a monthly allowance that he agrees will be temporary, but I know there can always be contingencies.  I was heartened to hear of Kate's one year plan.  They're still young and they have things to overcome which is so different than typical situations.  The big take-away is the setting of boundaries and sticking to it, which I'm pretty confident we can do.  Especially since he will be living quite a distance from us.  I love how with today's technology we can read a text or hear a message, think about things and get back when we're feeling rational.  Thanks to everyone again!  Hell be leaving in a couple of weeks.  Wish us all luck! 

[Lollypop]

Wishing you very good luck another won, I'm so jealous! It sounds very positive

L

[madmom]

One thing we did with our daughter, was to not only talk with her about what we will and won't do and for how long when it comes to her money issues, we also wrote down what we all had agreed to and all signed it.  We don't have to go through the "we didn't talk about that", or "I don't remember you telling me that" conversations.  We also discussed consequences.  Good luck, and I hope things work out well for all of you.

[AnotherWon]

Madmom,

That's a great suggestion.  I have been known to flake out in the past on the details of agreements, punishments, etc. after time has passed.  So even if it weren't officially signed, if son knew it existed, it would help AND assist me in remembering things and not get taken advantage of. Hubs is better at that kind of thing, but we're both at that age now where our memory's not what it used to be! 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Kate4queen]

Hi Kate

I so wished I'd been in this forum 5 years ago but dx only last year. I can see how our loans and even the way money was given would have created a complex emotional response from BPDs. Im learning a better way with the money side of things but something that feels right for all of us. My husband and I find boundaries a challenge (we are at different points in acceptance) so we are currently introducing boundaries that we know will be kept, come hell or high water. We will consistently introduce new ones that are realistic. We can see BPDs will reach a point when he will need to change from casual to fixed employment. Employment is THE biggy for BPDs.

We are working from the opposite direction from yourself. Knowing he chooses self medicating with weed rather than seeking treatment is hard enough, it'd be too much for us to actually hand him money over. So we leave him with the pressure to earn it. We try to build resilience - but are we naive? Time will tell I guess.

Was your son still living at home during the two years of financial support ?

Also, important to say. We would be prepared to pay for treatment but he would immediately feel the pressure of "I'll fail them again". He isn't seeking treatment and so I don't think he's ready to fully engage. So we choose to wait and see. It's frustrating!

Thanks for your advice.

L

No, my son had walked out. He had already organized a sympathetic family for him to land on. They kept him for 6 months, which was quite astoundingly kind of them at which point he was homeless again. So for us, at that point we had to make some decisions. We were moving anyway and were organizing an apartment for our younger son so he could finish up in college. We offered the financial help as an incentive and knew younger son, who is the only person in the family who still gets on with BPD son would probably offer his brother a home in the apartment. We knew this, and we were okay about it because we'd rather he had a roof over his head.

At this point was son was addicted to weed and pain killers. Giving him a roof over his head, a small allowance, which we worked out quite carefully to cover just the basics meant he finally had to make some choices for himself. Weed or food? Gas in his car or popping vicodin? Once we'd got the message home that neither of us were going to bail him out financially-he called us from a garage once demanding a thousand dollars to fix his car right that minute. We said no (very hard to not jump as we used to)-and guess what? he organized himself a loan. Once he'd worked out we were sticking to our boundaries he did go and get a job. Now almost 3 years in he has 2 jobs which seem to be permanent as he gets paid a monthly check from both, so good for him.

The apartment allowance will also be ending in December this year as we have realized that younger son is possibly deliberately not progressing in college so we had to decide what to do about that as well. If youngest goes on to Uni after community college we will pay for it. If he chooses not to? Then the rent will be on him and his brother.

And yes, we spelled everything out in a letter which we emailed and sent to them so they couldn't say they hadn't seen it. So we don't discuss the terms unless we change them.

[Lollypop]

Hi Kate

Wow, I need time to digest this and how we can apply it.

Thanks for sharing. I'll post up over the weekend with my latest as we try and overcome this latest drama.

L

[AnotherWon]

 

Hello Everyone!  Quick update.  Our son left last week.  It was quite abrupt as he's kept most stuff close to his vest while he was staying here.  I had the oddest reaction to it, too!  The night prior was anxiety-filled for me and I woke up crying about it!  I guess fear of all the unknowns just overtook me.  He just threw his stuff in his car and headed out about mid-day and I continued weeping all day.  I probably just got used to having him here and knowing he was safe, even though it was stressful.  Today I feel better.  He made the trip from Virginia to Texas fine.  Stopped to see friends along the way and checked in with my brother when he got there.  With him it's always been better with a little distance.  I laughed through my tears when I told him he was finally getting away from us on his own terms which is what he's wanted since his early teens!

The money situation feels good and it's all been documented.  I'm hopeful that he'll make it work.  I worry about him turning 21 this week, though.  His pattern has been to binge drink when stressed, angry or anxious.  :'( He knows we won't enable that, though.  Searching for a therapist for him to connect with soon, too.

The help and support I got here over the last few, difficult months was invaluable.  I will always appreciate it and hope to update you again with positive news!

My best to all of you and your loved ones.

[jellibeans]

I just wanted to add that I have struggled with giving my dd money when she was living on her own in sober living. I gave her gift cards to the local grocery store but of course she was able to just sell those to friends and get the cash. In hindsight it might have been better to take her shopping and buy her groceries... .addicts are very smart and they know how to best the system. If your son has a problem then I would be careful about supplying cash. LBJ gave you some good advise. I am looking forward to the day my dd can live on her own.

[Nikki15]

Money is such a difficult issue isn't it. We also know that or daughter is likely to spend as much money as possible on marijuana so have budgeted only enough to cover the basics and hope she makes good choices. A friend gave me a great tip which was to give her the weekly money on a Monday not the Friday we had been doing. I think it does increase the chances of food /rent purchases.

It would be great to have firm boundaries in place, but unfortunately it feels like she abuses the exceptions to get extra money (very difficult to establish the truth of course). We never refuse medical expenses, but even though we do sometimes ask for bills or proof, she has creative ways around this and a great knack of making us feel horrible for questioning her.

I hope you are enjoying the peace in your house - I know, it's a great feeling! xx

[AnotherWon]

Thanks, Nikki.  I will try to.  For as long as we can hang onto it!

[FeathersofHope]

Hi Another Won! So glad to hear that your son has made a move towards independence... .Wishing him and you and your family all the best, and yes, please keep us posted!

Kate4Queen: I copied and pasted your $$ plan to refer to when our dd20 moves out. Thank you!