He left, how can I help the kids?

[vortex of confusion]

He left over the weekend. The kids are doing great. I want to encourage the kids to talk to him and I want to make sure that I don't stand in the way of their relationship.

Some things that have come up that I don't know how to handle:

-He was Skyping with the kids and asked them when they wanted him to come home. One of the girls got upset because she didn't know how to answer him. He put her on the spot.

-I have no desire to talk to him at the moment. I am still hopping mad over the way he left (among other things). One of the girls wanted me to talk to him. I can't talk to him right now. I am not sure how to deal with that. He tried to say something to me while they were Skyping. I didn't acknowledge it and went to another area.

When he left, he told the kids to ask me why he was leaving. I told them that we needed space because we can't get along.

They wanted to know if they would get to see him again. He put on a big theatrical show and acted like he was never going to see us again. He told the girls, "You grow up right for me." It was painful. I told the girls that I would do everything in my power to make sure that they get to see daddy again. I want to stick to that. I don't want to alienate him as a parent. He does enough of that on his own.

The kids are so much more peaceful without him there. I don't want him to come back. I told the kids that I don't know anything for certain right now and that dad and I are just getting space and we will make decisions about everything else later. I don't know how to tell the kids that I don't ever want dad to come home.

[martillo]

VOC how old and mature are your kiddos?  That will be one of your first guides.  UBPDh and I have 5 kiddos - only two teenagers still at home.  H has threatened divorce, left for a few days, come home several times and threatens divorce even more frequently - I am as honest as I can be with the kids and let them know that it is possible that their dad could walk out an not come back but history shows that not to be the case yet. 

H will also use the guilt-manipulation trap w them and now most of the time they will call him out on it - telling him he is not being fair asking those kinds of questions or making thos kinds of statements. 

And as far as your feelings, do they really need to know right now?  You can be honest without divulging everything.  ":)ad and I are having a hard time being together so right now we are better apart."

[vortex of confusion]

VOC how old and mature are your kiddos?  That will be one of your first guides.  UBPDh and I have 5 kiddos - only two teenagers still at home.  H has threatened divorce, left for a few days, come home several times and threatens divorce even more frequently - I am as honest as I can be with the kids and let them know that it is possible that their dad could walk out an not come back but history shows that not to be the case yet. 

My kids are pretty mature. The oldest is almost 15. She can see through dad's crap better than I can. After he left, the oldest said, "Mom, dad was just putting on a show." The kids love him and want to see him and know that he is okay. I don't think they really want to live with him. The oldest has said, "Mom, I love dad but I can only take him in small doses."

And as far as your feelings, do they really need to know right now?  You can be honest without divulging everything.  ":)ad and I are having a hard time being together so right now we are better apart."

Thank you for this. I do wonder if it would make at least part of the kid feel better if I told them dad isn't coming back at all. When he asked the 7 year old if she missed him, she told him "No." She does not like her dad much at all.

Right now, the girls and I are trying to process the fact that he left and have no idea when he will be back. I am pretty certain that he will find some reason to come back.

[Turkish]

It sounds like it was ultimately his choice to leave, like you didn't kick him out and told him never to come back, at least initially. Can you tell them the truth, age-appropriately?

He's going Full Waif, of course, wanting you to rescue him because he doesn't want to deal with it, and also asking your children for an emotional rescue.

It sounds like you may be a little in shock, and understandably angry. What's the future feel like to you?

[vortex of confusion]

It sounds like it was ultimately his choice to leave, like you didn't kick him out and told him never to come back, at least initially. Can you tell them the truth, age-appropriately?

The Friday evening before he left, we had gone out as a family. The kids and I were joking around in the car. I said something he didn't like so he got mad and said, in front of the kids, "I can't wait to leave." The kids were obviously bothered by it. Later in the evening after we got home, I texted him (so the kids wouldn't hear), "If you are so eager to leave, then you need to go now." He blew me off and acted like I didn't say anything. The next day, I went in his room to get some of my stuff and noticed that he hadn't packed or done anything. He has been telling me and the kids that he is going to move out after he got a job. I brought up the fact that didn't act like he was preparing to move. He came up with some kind of excuse like it wouldn't take him long to pack and move once he got a job. He kept asking me to tell him what to do. I told him I wanted him to make some decisions for himself. He was trying to get me to tell him what to do. I wouldn't do it. I told him that I had already made my wishes known. At that point, he backed up the van and packed up some stuff and left. As he was packing and loading up the car, he was being dramatic about it. I could tell that he was trying to get me to stop him. I wouldn't say a word. I didn't kick him out per se but I also didn't ask him to stay.

He's going Full Waif, of course, wanting you to rescue him because he doesn't want to deal with it, and also asking your children for an emotional rescue.

Exactly! The kids Skyped with him today just before I went to work. Tonight, they didn't seem to be nearly as peaceful as they have been the last day or two. I am not sure if it is the weather, a rough day, or the fact that they Skyped with him. I am going to need to pay close attention to that. He rarely wants to deal with anything. Our kids are more mature than he is that is for sure.

It sounds like you may be a little in shock, and understandably angree. What's the future feel like to you?

I am in shock. I didn't think he would actually go through with leaving. I figured that he would put on a big show and then find a reason to not go. I didn't believe that he wasn't going to show back up until I found out that he was at his mom's two states away. The future feels uncertain at the moment. I am still trying to figure out how to be the primary caregiver to 4 kids and still work and do what I need to do. He left Saturday afternoon and I had to work Sunday. I had to scramble to figure out what to do with the kids while I worked.

[Turkish]

If he does want to come back, would you let him? I know that you're posting on other boards to process this, but it would be good to gauge your feeling vis-a-vis how to deal with the kids now emotionally. If you're unsure, that's totally fine. Sometimes it's best to just deal with what's going on at the moment.

How are you validating your 7 year old who says that she doesn't miss him? What else does she say?

[vortex of confusion]

If he does want to come back, would you let him? I know that you're posting on other boards to process this, but it would be good to gauge your feeling vis-a-vis how to deal with the kids now emotionally. If you're unsure, that's totally fine. Sometimes it's best to just deal with what's going on at the moment.

I don't know how I could say no at this point, especially if the kids are telling me they want him back. Before he left, he had his own room and I slept on the couch and had most of my stuff in the laundry room or other places. I don't want him to step foot in this house until I am done rearranging the house and get to have a room with space and privacy.

How are you validating your 7 year old who says that she doesn't miss him? What else does she say?

I am not sure how to answer that question. Nobody is surprised that she said that. She has disliked her dad for most of her life because he has been emotionally unavailable. The other day (before he left), he sat down in the living room with us and she said, "Go away dad, you are annoying." His reaction was to get up and go to another room. He didn't stick up for himself and tell her not to talk to her dad that way or anything else. I could have said something. I didn't. I sat there quietly because I am tired of defending dad, taking up for him, or trying to get the kids to respect him.

[Sunfl0wer]

A T once told me... .

All kids of divorce always secretly wish that their parents will get back together and all will be as they hope.

Know that the decision you make (to let him back or not) is not a decision for kids.  It is your adult decision based on what you think is best for them and you. 

Consider... .  Your kids wishing dad back, and even you wishing him back... .

May be a form of 'Magical thinking.'

(Kids, even in extreme situations, will wish to be with abusive parents even if it would kill them to do so, it is how their attachment systems are wired.)

My T suggested I read the book Magical Thinking after my breakup.  It speaks of the grieving process of a woman who lost her husband and child to death.  It was an excellent story and helped to validate a lot of my thinking that would otherwise feel 'crazy.' As she describes grief inducing a type of psychosis as we expect the person to walk through the door and such... .our minds go to unusual places.

Please consider that when he left, you were likely in a state of shock.

You are likely STILL in a state of shock.

Possibly, a small bit of the shock is wearing and making room for a little fear.

Read about loss and grief, Magical Thinking if you like...

This is all normal.

Consider getting support if you do not have some. 

It is hard to sort out emotional mind and logical mind at this time, and while in shock, and as shock wears off and suppressed feelings flood in.  It is not a good time to make any decisions.

Can you refrain from decisions for a week?  (Just tell yourself to get through the days looking for peace in the moment of the day vs thinking about long term things)

See if you can get a therapist?  (Sorry, I recall that bad counselor experience... .and limited T availability)

I think having a professional will help you stay grounded and give you a clearer confidence and relieve a lot of the burden you are likely feeling about things.

[Sunfl0wer]

Oh... .

Please do not allow kids to think they are being included in the decision making process.

This would be burdensome and could inadvertently validate any feelings that they have that they are the reason dad left.  All kids think this even if they do not say it.  Making them appear that they have influence and control of daddy returning puts them in a bad position. 

Communicate to them, that they have no say in this.

Mom and dad splitting or reuniting, has not a thing to do with kids... .(except maybe that adults made either decision with thoughts of love towards them... .and hoping the best for them)

[flourdust]

Hi, vortex. These are early days, still. You're about three weeks behind where I am. 

I have one daughter -- age 10. Like your kids, she's seen lots of conflict. My wife's leaving was a surprise -- but it also wasn't, because it was just a more extreme example of the emotional and behavioral problems she's been acting out at home for years. I can only tell you what I've done... .

I reassured my daughter that she was going to be taken care of. Her immediate fears were about really basic things that wouldn't occur to an adult. My wife used to pick her up from school, so she assumed nobody would pick her up and she'd be abandoned. I had to show her that her routine wasn't going to change much, and she wasn't going to lose her school, friends, home, etc.

I was honest about what I couldn't answer but helped her place what was happening in the context of what she had already lived through. I didn't know when her mom was coming back, and I let her know it was OK to be upset and worried about that and to talk to me about her feelings. I helped her remember how bad things were at home with all the conflict, and that it might be better not to have that conflict for a while. She was certainly able to see the positives about not having fights during dinner and so forth.

I didn't offer any solid answers or detailed scenarios, but I let her think about some hypothetical questions -- even if we didn't live in the same house, she'd still see her mom and spend time with her. If mom had a different place, there'd be somewhere for her to sleep there, and she might spend some nights there. I kept it pretty vague, but it helped her to visualize that the routine could change but she could still have security and contact with both her parents.

If my wife said anything particularly outrageous or false, I'd ask my daughter how she felt about that. She was often smart enough to know that mommy just said things like that some times, but they weren't true.

And there were times when my daughter's feelings turned against me, and she blamed me for driving her mom away. I just let her have those feelings and did my best to be empathic and to offer to hug her when she exhausted her anger at me.

Oh -- a more practical note -- I kept my daughter's teachers and therapist up to date. Being able to talk to them gave my daughter some relief.

[vortex of confusion]

Thank you sunflower and flourdust!

1. I am still very much in shock. I didn't think he would actually do it. He has thrown temper tantrums before. I usually rescued him. This time, I didn't.

2. The kids are much more peaceful without him here. They have commented that it feels like it used to when he was at work all day and it was just us girls.

3. My oldest (14) is wise beyond her years. She doesn't care either way. She is glad that the tension is gone. In the time leading up to his leaving, she would ask me what we could do to get dad out of here sooner. She loves her dad but can only take him in small doses because he acts so childish. She sees through all of his dramatics.

4. The kids don't get to be a part of the decision making process. However, I do want to consider their feelings and what is best for them. This is a big shock to all of us. They are having to go to grandma's house when I go to work rather than be able to stay home with dad. It isn't a big deal. It is just that it is a change and we are having to adjust how we do things.

5. I am still trying to make sense out of everything. I don't want to screw this up with the kids. I want to support them and help them and make sure that they don't feel abandoned or ignored. One of my values is for kids to have regular access to both parents. I am not sure how to pull that off just yet. I suspect that it is too soon to be thinking about anything or making any kind of decisions. I told the kids that the other day. I told them that I don't know what is going to happen. Dad and I have to get some space so that we can both think more clearly before any kind of permanent decisions can be made.

[flourdust]

You might want to start thinking -- sooner rather than later -- of taking some action to set up what the new order will be. I understand you don't want your husband back in the house. It's easier to make that happen if you get him to understand that now, while he is gone. He could come back tomorrow, putting you back at right where you were.

If you aren't ready/willing to divorce, you could put together a separation agreement -- not even necessarily a legally binding one, but something that lays out on paper what you want the living arrangements to be -- and send that to him. Take the initiative, before he decides for you what is going to happen.

[ForeverDad]

The kids are so much more peaceful without him there. I don't want him to come back. I told the kids that I don't know anything for certain right now and that dad and I are just getting space and we will make decisions about everything else later. I don't know how to tell the kids that I don't ever want dad to come home.

It is what it is.  Beware of some time passing and then being willing to let him come back and restart the roller coaster.

While I am a big proponent of marriage, it being the historical foundation of families, I realize there are limits and sometimes the dysfunction of an unhealthy relationship can be just too much.

I am in shock. I didn't think he would actually go through with leaving. I figured that he would put on a big show and then find a reason to not go. I didn't believe that he wasn't going to show back up until I found out that he was at his mom's two states away... .He left Saturday afternoon and I had to work Sunday. I had to scramble to figure out what to do with the kids while I worked.

If the oldest is 14, then no state would find fault with you leaving the younger children with her.  After all there are a lot of teens who babysit other families' kids.

A T once told me... .

All kids of divorce always secretly wish that their parents will get back together and all will be as they hope.

My son felt that way for years.  Now he's a teen and alternates between telling me his mother hates me and she's crazy.

Know that the decision you make (to let him back or not) is not a decision for kids.  It is your adult decision based on what you think is best for them and you. 

Consider... .  Your kids wishing dad back, and even you wishing him back... .

May be a form of 'Magical thinking.'

(Kids, even in extreme situations, will wish to be with abusive parents even if it would kill them to do so, it is how their attachment systems are wired.)

My T suggested I read the book Magical Thinking after my breakup.  It speaks of the grieving process of a woman who lost her husband and child to death.  It was an excellent story and helped to validate a lot of my thinking that would otherwise feel 'crazy.' As she describes grief inducing a type of psychosis as we expect the person to walk through the door and such... .our minds go to unusual places.

Please consider that when he left, you were likely in a state of shock.

You are likely STILL in a state of shock.

Possibly, a small bit of the shock is wearing and making room for a little fear.

Read about loss and grief, Magical Thinking if you like...

This is all normal.

Consider getting support if you do not have some. 

It is hard to sort out emotional mind and logical mind at this time, and while in shock, and as shock wears off and suppressed feelings flood in.  It is not a good time to make any decisions.

I think having a professional will help you stay grounded and give you a clearer confidence and relieve a lot of the burden you are likely feeling about things.

It's hard to be objective right now with your emotions whirling and entire life upside down, yet objectivity is so important.  Perhaps you can picture yourself advising a good friend who has your situation... .what would you counsel that friend?

And don't ignore that the children could use counseling too.  If that's hard to schedule right now, then at least see what assistance the school counselors can provide.

You might want to start thinking -- sooner rather than later -- of taking some action to set up what the new order will be. I understand you don't want your husband back in the house. It's easier to make that happen if you get him to understand that now, while he is gone. He could come back tomorrow, putting you back at right where you were.

If you aren't ready/willing to divorce, you could put together a separation agreement -- not even necessarily a legally binding one, but something that lays out on paper what you want the living arrangements to be -- and send that to him. Take the initiative, before he decides for you what is going to happen.

Very smart, don't be caught off guard and unprepared.  If you're put on the spot and unprepared, you're very likely to weaken your boundaries.  Otherwise, minutes, days or years later you may be kicking yourself, "Why in the world did I say, allow or do that?"

[vortex of confusion]

You might want to start thinking -- sooner rather than later -- of taking some action to set up what the new order will be. I understand you don't want your husband back in the house. It's easier to make that happen if you get him to understand that now, while he is gone. He could come back tomorrow, putting you back at right where you were.

If you aren't ready/willing to divorce, you could put together a separation agreement -- not even necessarily a legally binding one, but something that lays out on paper what you want the living arrangements to be -- and send that to him. Take the initiative, before he decides for you what is going to happen.

I am already taking action regarding what the new order will be. I am completely cleaning out his room and moving his stuff to a safe place in a different part of the house. I am going to set up a room that is mine without any of his stuff in it. If he shows up, the house will be set up to send a loud and clear message that this is no longer his home.

One thing that I know about his is that he is lazy. He tends to ignore things and hope they will go away. I don't see him changing his MO any time soon. If he follows his usual trends, he will stay at his mom's house until somebody tells him to do otherwise. I doubt that he will take any initiative to do anything. That is how he is.

[vortex of confusion]

While I am a big proponent of marriage, it being the historical foundation of families, I realize there are limits and sometimes the dysfunction of an unhealthy relationship can be just too much.

I cooked a big dinner last night and the kids and I had a nice dinner at the table and I invited them to share their feelings about what is going on. Right now, they are very relieved. The dysfunction has reached pretty unhealthy levels. The kids and I talked about how all of us were jerks while dad was here.

They understand why dad and I can't live together. They can see that both of us are much nicer when we are apart.

My son felt that way for years.  Now he's a teen and alternates between telling me his mother hates me and she's crazy.

The oldest commented that she likes being able to play games with dad online. If he gets annoying or diffic

It's hard to be objective right now with your emotions whirling and entire life upside down, yet objectivity is so important.  Perhaps you can picture yourself advising a good friend who has your situation... .what would you counsel that friend?

I have a couple of good friends that are helping me deal with this. My best friend knows me and the kids and him and she has been a great source of helping me deal with my kids on an individual basis.

[flourdust]

How are you feeling? Do you have someone to see? (Friends and family can be a great support in this time, not to mention a therapist.)

My therapist asked me yesterday how I was feeling, sleeping, etc. And I had to say I felt happy. Dealing with stress and uncertainty, yes ... .but happy.

[vortex of confusion]

How are you feeling? Do you have someone to see? (Friends and family can be a great support in this time, not to mention a therapist.)

My therapist asked me yesterday how I was feeling, sleeping, etc. And I had to say I felt happy. Dealing with stress and uncertainty, yes ... .but happy.

My family lives in the area so I have family close by that check on us pretty regularly.

I am actually feeling really good. I have more energy than I have had in a while. Even with the uncertainty of not knowing what he is going to do, I feel so much better. People are trying to help me be practical so that I can protect myself and the kids and my attitude seems to be slowly moving towards, "Bring it on!" A lot of the fears that I had while he was still here are slowly dissipating. I know it is still early in the process. I can't believe the positive changes that I am seeing in the kids (and myself). The kids and I are more like we used to be together. I am getting my awesome, happy kids back.

[flourdust]

I'm so glad to hear that!