I'm lost

[raury]

I'm kind of wary about posting here, wary that it may somehow make things worse.  I am in love with someone who broke up with me suddenly and I believe rashly.  I believe she might have BPD.  I want to repair our relationship as friends at least, and have a fair chance to win her heart back.  Communication is so bad now though, that I have no idea how to move forward.  I need help

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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[snowmonkey]

I think you are at the right place, and posting here is a good thing and unlikely to make it worse. However, I have far more questions for you than answers.

Can you give us some background on why you think she has BPD?

Do you REALLY want a relationship with a pwBPD, given that you will almost certainly be in the same position again in the future?

Have you thought about what your boundaries are in taking her back? Would for example you still want to pursue her if she had been with someone else in the intervening time? Would you want her back if she continued to behave in a manner that has lead you to the conclusion that she has BPD?

You know, it does sound like a cliché but your break up could well be a blessing in disguise... .

[Turkish]

What precipitated the break-up, raury, and what kind of contact do you have with her right now?

[raury]

I'm afraid that she might find this, and that will harm things.  I also feel a deep sense of betraying trust, talking about personal issues . . . Well when she broke up with me, I had a friend tell me that they have BPD while the friend was struggling with a relationship.  So I looked it up, and it really described my ex.  I'd say she's very high functioning though.  She's freaked out at small things like I've abandoned her.  She does seem to go through phases of idealization and devaluation.  :)efinitely with me, she went from totally madly being deeply in love with me to within some days blaming me and our relationship for her sadness, she's definitely struggling with depression.  I think she's struggled with her identity--she worked her whole life towards a profession and with very little left, she was wondering if it was worth it.  She almost dropped out before she finished it.  She's been impulsive with spending--has actually spent too much, she's binge ate and then hated herself for it, she's abused alcohol, and she's had impulsive sex.  She has threatened herself, also thought and talked about ending things.  She's had intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, and anxiety.  She has felt empty.  She's been inappropriately angry, she apologizes later.  There was definitely a sudden and dramatic change in how she viewed me, and that has happened with some of her previous relationships.  I think unlike those, she broke it off with me after we realized that we truly love each other and that we could make it work, despite anything else.  She was struggling with major depression, and she often felt very lonely--we were long distance for the most part.

I don't actually know if she has BPD.  She has definitely lied to me, and it could be manipulative--I was reading about BPD, and it also fits the behaviors of someone with BPD.  She would actually know in a clinical diagnostic sense more than I would if someone had BPD.  I made the mistake of suggesting that she might have it after we had broken up and we were finally talking about things, she got quite offended.  I backed off, partly because it seemed like she intentionally lied to me and her reaction.

I truly love her.  I would sacrifice anything to be with her.  I don't want to be with someone with BPD.  That's not attractive, it doesn't make our relationship better.  It'd be ideal if I didn't have to deal with that, but it's possibly apart of who she is.  Likewise, I don't want her to be with someone else.  I'm not okay with it, but I love her.  So as long as she wasn't with someone else while she was with me, I wouldn't hold it against her.  It makes me feel miserable though, just thought of her with someone else--I mean emotionally not just physically.  She did see some guy, but he was a jerk apparently and nothing really happened.  I still love her and want to be with her after that.  I feel like she led herself wrongly to think negative things about me and our relationship.  She ended the relationship and then she was still lonely and sad.  I don't really know what to think about her seeing that guy.

We were friends before we fell in love with each other.  I knew about guys that she saw, she seemed to like a lot of guys too.  I found that quite unattractive.  We became best friends though and that turned into love, I was able to accept her past then, so I feel like it would be similar now.  I do love her, and I don't want to give up.  I have realized thoroughly that this is a difficult relationship situation, but losing it is not a blessing.  I want to figure out how to make this work.  If she has BPD, she's much more than that--I love her for all her faults but she definitely has many more positive attributes.  Losing her isn't just a curse to lose someone's love, but she is definitely "a catch".

From what I read on this site and elsewhere, BPD is something that can show improvement with therapy.  I don't want the same level of impairment--ie. if it turned into a cycle of breaking up, "devaluation" in the future, but I see it possible that things could improve.  I know that I've already done somethings wrong, and so has she.  I'm not about blame though, I want us both to be happy.  If she wouldn't be happy in a relationship with me, I wouldn't want her to be in it.  I do want a fair shot at making it work.

I'm sorry for being so verbose, it just all came spilling out.



There was another post made asking what precipitated the breakup, She was struggling with a really deep depression, she ran out of her medicine, and though I'm really not the kind of person to attribute thoughts and actions to a woman's cycle--she does struggle during that time and it was then.  Not long before it though, she said one of the most touching things that made me fall in love with her even more than I did.  She still says she wasn't lying then, and it doesn't make sense to me that she would lie.  It makes no sense or serves any purpose. 

We basically only message each other in text.  I think if I tried to call her, she might reject it or react badly.  We talked things for a bit before this, and the result was that we were messaging each other like friends again.  She got busy with work and a family visit.  So she wasn't messaging me then, which I understood.  After though she changed again, it's like I don't matter now.  She didn't reply to a simple message for 2 days until I sent a tumbleweed icon as a joke.  She didn't acknowledge that, and she told me why she was busy, which seems legitimate.  Though I'm sure if we were together, she'd have found a moment to at least answer and say that she'd be busy for 2 days and why.  It seems like she could do that just as courtesy.  I asked her what she was doing, she said she was doing an assignment.  I apologized if I was bothering her.  She didn't reply.  I dunno what to do now, I have lots of thoughts and ideas.  I haven't been clingy, I think, I feel stupid though messaging her.

I think you are at the right place, and posting here is a good thing and unlikely to make it worse. However, I have far more questions for you than answers.

Can you give us some background on why you think she has BPD?

Do you REALLY want a relationship with a pwBPD, given that you will almost certainly be in the same position again in the future?

Have you thought about what your boundaries are in taking her back? Would for example you still want to pursue her if she had been with someone else in the intervening time? Would you want her back if she continued to behave in a manner that has lead you to the conclusion that she has BPD?

You know, it does sound like a cliché but your break up could well be a blessing in disguise... .

[Turkish]

Thanks for clarifying, there's a lot to unpack here.

From what you describe in yiur first paragraph, her behaviors do sound BPD. A "diagnosis" gives a baseline from which to start. The Dx isn't as important as the behaviors, how we can understand them, and how we can deal with them. It soindsvlike you've done enough research to at least begin to understand where she might becoming from. That's step 1. We have a lot of info on understanding BPD behaviors (splitting silent treatment, dysphoria, etc... .) but it all ultimately comes back to focusing the r/s on us.

Reaching out is good, even by text. I'd offer that while apologizing for bothering her is polite, it is likely triggering. She's still communicating, which is good, but she's shut down in a way, into her own feelings. What may be perceived weakness in her way of thinking may be triggering. Giving her space while not triggering her abandonment fears is certainly a fine line to walk. Maybe this can help:

The Do's and Don'ts for a BP relationship

[raury]

Well so she didn't let me talk about the break up immediately after, I sent her a message a couple of days after expressing myself.  She apologized and said that we would talk about things.  She had work and was dealing with depression, so I was patient and waited--probably too long.  We even continued spending a month or so almost the same as before we broke up.  I didn't want to burden her, and I have put her before myself always--so I didn't push anything.  After quite awhile and being kind of ignored, I pushed to talk.  We went through a lot of negative things that she thought, which were untrue, and she apologized.  She said that she was trying to be my friend.  I felt like maybe she was just saying that, but it made her angry when I suggested that.  Things seemed to be going good and we were messaging like friends.  Then she got busy with work and had a family visit.

Actually, a family visit also precipitated our breakup.  She couldn't spend time with me then.  Afterwards, she was distant again. Then told me that she was trying to be my friend because she agreed that I didn't deserve the poor treatment, but she had a feeling of not wanting to talk to me.  I asked her again if she didn't feel like talking to me before, and she said she didn't, which makes what she said before a lie or what she said now a lie.  I feel like maybe she re-imagined the past, like a lot of her thinking about me was false.  She said she didn't know how to be true to that feeling with trying to treat me right.  She says she doesn't know why she feels that way. 

I had written a letter afterwards, but then I never sent it to her.  I hate everything having to be a big deal.  I feel like I will say something in a long note and she will interpret it differently versus active communication.  Trying to be lighthearted and friendly doesn't seem to work at the moment.  I've read a lot on this site, which seemed to ease my anxieties.  How is apologizing triggering in this case?  Should I not apologize to her?  I want her to know that I mean well and I'm not trying to upset her or bother her.

At the moment, it doesn't seem like she cares about being abandoned because we're broken up and she's barely communicating with me.  I'm worried that she's replaced me already.

I've read 2 posts about the silent treatment/re-establishing contact.  I feel like I'm sorta there.  She has acknowledged that a lot of her negative thinking about me isn't true, but I feel like being out of contact again--they've come back.  Also, she's spent time with the same family member, I don't know if it's related.  She lives with her female best friend.  I asked her if she had discussed our relationship with anyone, she said no.  From being her best friend and confidante, even prior to our relationship, she's always talked about her relationships.  So I'm having some doubt that she didn't do that now, and maybe that person isn't being helpful to the situation?

On the site, it says we often make things worse trying to fix things.  I feel like talking about heavy things is the only way to open dialogue back up.  I think I should ask her from things she has said, what's true?  I want to knock down misconceptions that she has of me and the situation again.  I don't want to mess things up and push her away though.  One big thing that I've noticed is that she makes it about me making her feel bad from guilt.  I've been supremely clear--even before reading about it on here, that it's not about who's fault it is or guilt.  She took what I told her and from us trying to be friends--to her treating me poorly and she feels guilt about it.  She said I made her feel terrible about how she treated me.  I think in general she's blaming me for her feeling bad, when it's not my fault at all.  I want to say that to her--without it being me making her feel bad agai

Thanks for clarifying, there's a lot to unpack here.

From what you describe in yiur first paragraph, her behaviors do sound BPD. A "diagnosis" gives a baseline from which to start. The Dx isn't as important as the behaviors, how we can understand them, and how we can deal with them. It soindsvlike you've done enough research to at least begin to understand where she might becoming from. That's step 1. We have a lot of info on understanding BPD behaviors (splitting silent treatment, dysphoria, etc... .) but it all ultimately comes back to focusing the r/s on us.

Reaching out is good, even by text. I'd offer that while apologizing for bothering her is polite, it is likely triggering. She's still communicating, which is good, but she's shut down in a way, into her own feelings. What may be perceived weakness in her way of thinking may be triggering. Giving her space while not triggering her abandonment fears is certainly a fine line to walk. Maybe this can help:

The Do's and Don'ts for a BP relationship

[raury]

I decided to just message her, and ask her if she was till working on her assignment.  She answered, which made me feel good, not being ignored.  I felt like it was stuff being friendly again.   Afterwards, I found out from something else that she booked a trip with a female friend, and it made me sad cause she didn't mention it, a big trip.  I went and looked back at her replies, and they were just matter of fact ones.  It wouldn't bug me that she would go on a trip with her friend, I'm normally happy about her doing things like that.  We were supposed to go on a trip together though, and it's less that I'm jealous--just that she didn't even mention such a big thing.  I sort of feel like now, she only replied because she did plan it and might think that I would have found out.  I know that I have been devalued, but it smarts being reminded of it

Edit:  Actually I had just planning a surprise for her, a short trip to see a show--right when I found out.   I wouldn't be going, but I was trying to do something nice, not buy her love though . . . I really could use someone to talk about this, I'm kinda overwhelmed

[nrobinson]

I am in the same boat and mine has been taken as far as divorce and me being me first reaction was toget him help all that got me was a projection order from his parents which was GREAtly over the top .   they enable and listen to all I am the victim and meanwhile I am hurting because my heart is breaking

  Honestly I turn to church and pray 

[hergestridge]

Just thought I'd chime in:

When I came to the realization that my wife had BPD (or at least, at that stage it seemed very likely, she was later diagnosed) I thought of BPD as a "part" of who she was. Over time I realized that BPD is not a faulty part of the person that can be removed or go away. The disorder affects the whole personality. I would even go as far as saying that BPD *is* the personality (or at least a description of it). The good things are part of it too. I lived through a lot of semi-abuse because I knew that after rain comes sunshine. The sunshine was really part of the problem.

They push and they pull, but at first I only saw the pushing as problematic.

I suppose you've been there. One day everything about you is problematic, then you are totally unproblematic the next.

I now live with a non-BPD partner and she criticizes me even on a good day because something about me bugs her. I wasn't prepared for that. With my ex thought I was mr perfect until the black clouds came and then everything about me was wrong. I was used to that.

With therapy a borderline person can learn how to not act on the impulses. Chances are that if therapy is effective then both the love-bombing and the painting black is reduced. And chances are that the love-bombing is one of the things that you fall in love with that girl. I know that was the case with me and my ex BPD wife.

[raury]

Thanks for your responses.  I doubt that the other parts are her BPD.  I don't know if she even has it, but yeah I have considered that her love was just BPD shining on me.  What she said to me, a little while before she broke up with me, that made me fall even deeper in love.  I feel like that could have been the sunshine . . . but like I said she's high functioning.  It's not the sunshine, it's her personality, her intelligence, her humor, her charm, her beauty, her kindness--to the world.  We like the same things, and where we differ, I appreciate her.  One of the site's staff writers wrote about love as someone from BPD.  If what she says is true, then the love is real.  I'm not an abusive person, I have been supportive.  I haven't been perfect, I think that I should have done many things differently.  I think things can be better, and I don't need her to shine on me.

I do genuinely love her, and like I've said that if she wouldn't be happy with me, I could accept our relationship ending.  I don't want her to be with me if she doesn't want to.  I do still want to stay friends, either way.  I do think that she could be happy with me and that our relationship could work in a healthy way.  I've talked to some people, and they have suggested that I'm better off without her.  I understand why people are saying this or suggesting this, but I want to reverse our break up and build on our relationship. I really would like help in how to do that and thoughts on what I am thinking or the situation to help me do that.

Just thought I'd chime in:

When I came to the realization that my wife had BPD (or at least, at that stage it seemed very likely, she was later diagnosed) I thought of BPD as a "part" of who she was. Over time I realized that BPD is not a faulty part of the person that can be removed or go away. The disorder affects the whole personality. I would even go as far as saying that BPD *is* the personality (or at least a description of it). The good things are part of it too. I lived through a lot of semi-abuse because I knew that after rain comes sunshine. The sunshine was really part of the problem.

They push and they pull, but at first I only saw the pushing as problematic.

I suppose you've been there. One day everything about you is problematic, then you are totally unproblematic the next.

I now live with a non-BPD partner and she criticizes me even on a good day because something about me bugs her. I wasn't prepared for that. With my ex thought I was mr perfect until the black clouds came and then everything about me was wrong. I was used to that.

With therapy a borderline person can learn how to not act on the impulses. Chances are that if therapy is effective then both the love-bombing and the painting black is reduced. And chances are that the love-bombing is one of the things that you fall in love with that girl. I know that was the case with me and my ex BPD wife.

[hergestridge]

I understand that you want this relationship to work out and I hope it does. But I think you are better equipped to do that if you consider what it will be like to have a relationship with a person with BPD (if she has BPD, I have no idea!).

Her love for you can be real, but it is fleeting. Really minor things can trigger her and then she doesn't love you anymore. And then she might love you again. That is where the really cruel stuff comes from.

If you want to reverse the breakup then I suggest you have to validate how she feels right now. If she is mad with you, or even if she has just lost her feelings for you, you have to validate that too. Validate but not be a doormat. I found this part troublesome and I couldn't handle it. I couldn't keep quiet about the fact that I thought her feelings and suspicions were unfounded. She could act really cruel and then it turned out she expected to me to say I'm sorry for something from five years ago that I hadn't even noticed. I couldn't bite my tongue. I went "... .but what the heck, get real!". :D I think that you understanding her is what could make her happy and to make her less hostile towards you. If she is BPD then she is locked inside her head with her feelings. It is about *her* feelings.

And then again love is not rational. I am in love again and I know there is no room for wise considerations and evaluations. I just throw myself into it. But if that special person in your life has a borderline-type problem then you will have to use special tools, plenty of them to find here on this site.

Good luck!

Thanks for your responses.  I doubt that the other parts are her BPD.  I don't know if she even has it, but yeah I have considered that her love was just BPD shining on me.  What she said to me, a little while before she broke up with me, that made me fall even deeper in love.  I feel like that could have been the sunshine . . . but like I said she's high functioning.  It's not the sunshine, it's her personality, her intelligence, her humor, her charm, her beauty, her kindness--to the world.  We like the same things, and where we differ, I appreciate her.  One of the site's staff writers wrote about love as someone from BPD.  If what she says is true, then the love is real.  I'm not an abusive person, I have been supportive.  I haven't been perfect, I think that I should have done many things differently.  I think things can be better, and I don't need her to shine on me.

I do genuinely love her, and like I've said that if she wouldn't be happy with me, I could accept our relationship ending.  I don't want her to be with me if she doesn't want to.  I do still want to stay friends, either way.  I do think that she could be happy with me and that our relationship could work in a healthy way.  I've talked to some people, and they have suggested that I'm better off without her.  I understand why people are saying this or suggesting this, but I want to reverse our break up and build on our relationship. I really would like help in how to do that and thoughts on what I am thinking or the situation to help me do that.

Just thought I'd chime in:

When I came to the realization that my wife had BPD (or at least, at that stage it seemed very likely, she was later diagnosed) I thought of BPD as a "part" of who she was. Over time I realized that BPD is not a faulty part of the person that can be removed or go away. The disorder affects the whole personality. I would even go as far as saying that BPD *is* the personality (or at least a description of it). The good things are part of it too. I lived through a lot of semi-abuse because I knew that after rain comes sunshine. The sunshine was really part of the problem.

They push and they pull, but at first I only saw the pushing as problematic.

I suppose you've been there. One day everything about you is problematic, then you are totally unproblematic the next.

I now live with a non-BPD partner and she criticizes me even on a good day because something about me bugs her. I wasn't prepared for that. With my ex thought I was mr perfect until the black clouds came and then everything about me was wrong. I was used to that.

With therapy a borderline person can learn how to not act on the impulses. Chances are that if therapy is effective then both the love-bombing and the painting black is reduced. And chances are that the love-bombing is one of the things that you fall in love with that girl. I know that was the case with me and my ex BPD wife.

[Conundrum]

Hi, I'll offer what is entirely conjecture--and you may evaluate the merits for yourself.

She did see some guy, but he was a jerk apparently and nothing really happened... .I don't really know what to think about her seeing that guy.

I knew about guys that she saw, she seemed to like a lot of guys too.  I found that quite unattractive.

Falling in love is wonderful, however it is intensely emotionally driven. It is different than building love--which usually comes later as the relationship develops (in partnership) over time.

When we fall in love--both parties tend to embrace idealized intense feelings that exaggerate certain segments of the self--however that never tells the entire story. There are parts of ourselves that we may hide from a love interest. Parts that we find less appealing, or perhaps are ashamed of. Parts that we feel may not be tolerated or well understood by another. So constructs are formed--and we present those constructs to another--while knowing (somewhere inside) that we are leaving out parts of the story.

The two quotes that I included, I will not label as red flags, but I think that they are important to consider for purposes of radical acceptance. The impression I receive from your posts are that you are upstanding, contemplative with a sense of values. I'd surmise that she also believes that about you. People with BPD often may present  multiple faces like Janus the two faced god.  It's truly not about conscious manipulation, but that the unstable self, seeks fulfillment through unstable needs. And they have great trouble relationally, getting those needs met by a single person. When they act in that manner, it is a sure sign that the self remains fractured and is neither balanced nor integrated in an authentic manner.

I am suggesting that perhaps there are parts of this woman that you do not know as well as you might think. These are parts that she may feel she cannot express with you--with authentic conviction. She more than likely very much desires what you present/offer her--but she also may feel conflicted because whether (rational or not) she may feel that you will never accept, or embrace the side of her which does not synchronize with your values or beliefs. That is one of the inherent limitations and challenges of radically accepting a person with BPD.

These are living contradictions. Sometimes want and need are entirely contrary. Sometimes a part of growing close with another still leaves a part of the self feeling alienated and alone.

As I said, I present this as conjecture. Take from it whatever may assist. I wish you well.