Keep worrying he hates me...

[apepper21]

Briefly for anyone who hasn't read my posts before: my ex pwBPD and I broke up for good a little over 5 weeks ago. We work together in a very small company so have had to see each other a lot and it has been very emotional and everything you'd expect.

I'm finding myself more and more waking up in the mornings with a lot of worry and anxiety that he hates me. He became more and more "low" over the past few weeks (although he has been feeling "low" for months and off and on for the whole time I've known him) and ended up starting an IOP program Friday.

Wednesday last week when at work we had a brief talk that I thought was ok, until it sneakily turned into me having to say yet again that we can't be together (mind you he has broken up with me more times than I can count and he did this time as well, but now it has turned into MY not trying and giving up). A little while later he asked me to give him back some letters he wrote me, said they are his. I said no, you gave them to me, they are mine and walked away. He followed me into the other room and in front of a coworker, got close to me, I said don't and he said, this is the last thing I'll ask of you. I said I'm busy (I didn't engage with him).

Then I got an email saying he wanted me to give them back or tear them up because he gave a part of himself to me in those letters and doesn't want me to have or remember them. I didn't respond to the email. I left work and left his beach chair (I've had it in my car for a long time and had told him that a  while back, I never left it b/c I was afraid of opening up discussion, or that he would take it as an F you, which wasn't my intention, I didn't want his chair, but Wednesday I was like I don't care).

The next day he wasn't at work in the morning, and I was worried of course, but then he showed up late.

I came back to my desk after a meeting to find a bag with the three art pictures I made and framed for him in a bag on my chair. I was upset he gave them back, but not surprised. I wanted to smash them and give them back, rather I didn't acknowledge them, or him. I saw him later in the hall a couple of times, I looked at him and didn't make any expression looked away and kept walking.

I knew he was going into the IOP program the next day and fretted over saying anything to him when I left for the day or not. I ended up just going to his office and saying "I just wanted to say I hope the program is good" he said thank you and I walked away.

That was the last of our interaction. I believe I didn't do anything wrong. He is the one that has broken up with me so many times, I am not wrong for not going back. I know I didn't do anything wrong y walking away and not talking about the letters, it was HIM that was is the wrong by bringing that discussion to work, AND manipulative, mean and lashing out to say what he did. Maybe I shouldn't have left his beach chair, but honestly he's left me so much stuff, that I gave him or had meaning, this was HIS beach chair and the ONLY thing I've ever left him, I've always been too afraid to just leave something b/c of his reaction.

Now I'm finding myself constantly going over everything, feeling bad, worrying like crazy that he HATES me, feeling guilty, trying to reassure myself I didn't do anything wrong, that he brought this on.

I am trying to remember it doesn't matter if he hates me, I don't have to see him for a week, and when I do, I've dealt with his hatred before, AND I'm mad too. I was so mad Wednesday and Thursday I was so sure I was justified to be so and now I'm so worried about how HE feels.

[JerryRG]

I obsess over everything I did wrong in our relationship and wonder if she does, she never said sorry for any of her mistakes, I believe my ex may be unaware or... .she knows and couldn't be big enough to accept them. Either way it is us nons trying to figure it out, my ex refused couples councing so she didn't seem serious about making things work. Relationship are work and she was so self absorbed and disordered that just getting up and showering was a challenge.

Obsessing over our mistakes is the pattern I see here in these forums, difficult to understand crazy, crazy is crazy and that is all.

I'm still trying to figure it out,

I'm the crazy one, now.

Keep hanging out here, apepper21, lots of good advice and experience and help.

[Lifewriter16]

 Hi apepper21,

I'm sorry you have to deal with this difficult situation at work as well as at home. It must be very difficult for you.

My observation of my own BPDxbf is that when a break occurs he has to hate me to be able to cope with the feelings of rejection and to detach in any way at all (irrespective of whether it was him or I who instigated the breakup). He doesn't really hate me though. Remember the old addage of love and hate being two sides of the same coin?


Please forgive this little aside - This is a milestone post for me, my 700th on BPD Family.

Love Lifewriter

[apepper21]

Thank you both!

JerryRG: So true, can't make sense of crazy. I've been reminding myself of some the real things he did, that I brush aside, like they never happened. I think they were too difficult and hurtful to process and there was no room to b/c of him and his need of attention.

I'm going  to try to remember it is ME who is being crazy, trying to make sense of it, like you said!

I don't think they give it a second thought, what THEY did... .

LW16: Yes, it's been extremely hard at work AND home. The good thing is that now it's not at home. I think I know what you mean about them having to hate us. He even told me that before, during past times he's broken up with me, that in order to deal with his feelings he has to be cold... .And of course he was "sorry" about that. It's so backwards, he breaks up with ME and he's the one saying how hard it is and has to hate me!

I'm glad to hear it's not just me, thank you for sharing this is a trait of theirs. Yet another one suited for THEIR purpose and makes us feel even worse, confused and continuing to question what did I DO?

You believe they don't actually hate us, even when they think they do?

And congrats on 700!

[Lifewriter16]

apepper,

At one point during a breakup, my BPDxbf said to me "I hate you right now because to feel anything else would hurt too much."  The dreadful irony of this disorder, in my opinion, is that the more they love us or the closer they get to us, or the more they feel they need us, the more they dysregulate.

Love Lifewriter

[apepper21]

apepper,

At one point during a breakup, my BPDxbf said to me "I hate you right now because to feel anything else would hurt too much."  The dreadful irony of this disorder, in my opinion, is that the more they love us or the closer they get to us, or the more they feel they need us, the more they dysregulate.

Love Lifewriter

Yeah, it sucks. I'm not sure how to cope or deal right now, I'm having a lot of overwhelming feelings and I thought I was doing ok. Trying to breathe and read a book about this to help me cope... .Feel alone and lost.

[Lonely_Astro]

apepper,

At one point during a breakup, my BPDxbf said to me "I hate you right now because to feel anything else would hurt too much."  The dreadful irony of this disorder, in my opinion, is that the more they love us or the closer they get to us, or the more they feel they need us, the more they dysregulate.

Love Lifewriter

Yeah, it sucks. I'm not sure how to cope or deal right now, I'm having a lot of overwhelming feelings and I thought I was doing ok. Trying to breathe and read a book about this to help me cope... .Feel alone and lost.

You aren't alone or lost.  You have us to help as you process your feelings

Detaching from the ruptures of these relationships is tough.  They open core wounds for us.  After all, you're breaking up with yourself.  What I mean is our exes mimic us so well that they seem like our soulmates.  This isn't intentional from them, they do it as a survival instinct.  But, we don't know that in the beginning.  What we see is this charming, attractive to us person who's just so into us.  That's the idealization phase.  And that's where we always try to get back to.  The secret is: we can't get back there.

Sure, there are moments that we do.  But it's never like that first stage, ever.  BPDs often use  intermittent reinforcement to keep us around, this is for their benefit, not ours.  This tactic keeps us around longer than we should've stayed, of course.  But by the time that's happened, we have been so broken down and trauma bonded to them that we are fully FOGged.  We have  malignant hope.

Does your ex 'hate' you?  Not more than he hates himself, I promise.  He will have to 'hate' you at some point because he has to project his hate for himself onto someone else. He can't feel that hate, shame, guilt, and so on.  It's easier for them to pin that on others and say "well, they're bad for me.  They're the problem.  I'll be better once they're out of my life." When the truth is, YOULL be better they're out of your life.

Keep healing

[apepper21]

apepper,

At one point during a breakup, my BPDxbf said to me "I hate you right now because to feel anything else would hurt too much."  The dreadful irony of this disorder, in my opinion, is that the more they love us or the closer they get to us, or the more they feel they need us, the more they dysregulate.

Love Lifewriter

Yeah, it sucks. I'm not sure how to cope or deal right now, I'm having a lot of overwhelming feelings and I thought I was doing ok. Trying to breathe and read a book about this to help me cope... .Feel alone and lost.

You aren't alone or lost.  You have us to help as you process your feelings

Detaching from the ruptures of these relationships is tough.  They open core wounds for us.  After all, you're breaking up with yourself.  What I mean is our exes mimic us so well that they seem like our soulmates.  This isn't intentional from them, they do it as a survival instinct.  But, we don't know that in the beginning.  What we see is this charming, attractive to us person who's just so into us.  That's the idealization phase.  And that's where we always try to get back to.  The secret is: we can't get back there.

Sure, there are moments that we do.  But it's never like that first stage, ever.  BPDs often use  intermittent reinforcement to keep us around, this is for their benefit, not ours.  This tactic keeps us around longer than we should've stayed, of course.  But by the time that's happened, we have been so broken down and trauma bonded to them that we are fully FOGged.  We have  malignant hope.

Does your ex 'hate' you?  Not more than he hates himself, I promise.  He will have to 'hate' you at some point because he has to project his hate for himself onto someone else. He can't feel that hate, shame, guilt, and so on.  It's easier for them to pin that on others and say "well, they're bad for me.  They're the problem.  I'll be better once they're out of my life." When the truth is, YOULL be better they're out of your life.

Keep healing

Thank you. It's so hard to know/think he hates me. i don't know why I even care, given all the crap he's done. It very frustrating and I'm so confused today. Not about wanting to be back with him, I KNOW I don't, but confused about myself, my feelings, my part, was I mean and unfriendly, not understanding, etc etc. It's driving me nuts! I'm not clear at all today on his disorder... .

[Lifewriter16]

apepper,

I bet you were none of those things. If you were mean etc etc, you wouldn't cause him to feel engulfed, he wouldn't need to fear intimacy with you because there wouldn't be any. It's gone wrong because you are understanding and caring... .that's my take on it anyway!

Hang in with us during the difficult times, it made a big difference to me.

Love Lifewriter

[Lonely_Astro]

apepper,

I bet you were none of those things. If you were mean etc etc, you wouldn't cause him to feel engulfed, he wouldn't need to fear intimacy with you because there wouldn't be any. It's gone wrong because you are understanding and caring... .that's my take on it anyway!

Hang in with us during the difficult times, it made a big difference to me.

Love Lifewriter

Yep.  That's what I think too.  The seesaw got to much out of control, so he bailed.  Now that it's slowed, he's trying to do damage control.  Now that has failed too, the seesaw is back to moving. It's a never ending cycle.

[apepper21]

apepper,

I bet you were none of those things. If you were mean etc etc, you wouldn't cause him to feel engulfed, he wouldn't need to fear intimacy with you because there wouldn't be any. It's gone wrong because you are understanding and caring... .that's my take on it anyway!

Hang in with us during the difficult times, it made a big difference to me.

Love Lifewriter

Yep.  That's what I think too.  The seesaw got to much out of control, so he bailed.  Now that it's slowed, he's trying to do damage control.  Now that has failed too, the seesaw is back to moving. It's a never ending cycle.

Thank you both! That is so sweet, and I think you are correct, that if I WAS those things he wouldn't have become attracted to me, and yes, he does this out of defense, b/c he DOES care and b/c I DO care, and he can't handle that. SOO bizarre, I'm very NOT like that.

LA: Yes, the seesaw became too much for him, so he bailed, then when he saw I was ok with being done, he's trying to get it back? And the seesaw will keep going? I have no idea what to expect here. It's so confusing and crazy, I need to keep remembering to focus on ME, to know I DID do my best and this got to this point b/c of HIM, not me, not that I'm a blamer, but in this case I truly believe he forced this, and honestly everyone tells me there is NO way they would have tolerated this for nearly this long, a long time ago. So I have to trust my gut and people who know me and you guys!

I will for sure be hanging out here, it is SOO helpful ,thank you thank you thank you!

[Lonely_Astro]

apepper,

I bet you were none of those things. If you were mean etc etc, you wouldn't cause him to feel engulfed, he wouldn't need to fear intimacy with you because there wouldn't be any. It's gone wrong because you are understanding and caring... .that's my take on it anyway!

Hang in with us during the difficult times, it made a big difference to me.

Love Lifewriter

Yep.  That's what I think too.  The seesaw got to much out of control, so he bailed.  Now that it's slowed, he's trying to do damage control.  Now that has failed too, the seesaw is back to moving. It's a never ending cycle.

Thank you both! That is so sweet, and I think you are correct, that if I WAS those things he wouldn't have become attracted to me, and yes, he does this out of defense, b/c he DOES care and b/c I DO care, and he can't handle that. SOO bizarre, I'm very NOT like that.

LA: Yes, the seesaw became too much for him, so he bailed, then when he saw I was ok with being done, he's trying to get it back? And the seesaw will keep going? I have no idea what to expect here. It's so confusing and crazy, I need to keep remembering to focus on ME, to know I DID do my best and this got to this point b/c of HIM, not me, not that I'm a blamer, but in this case I truly believe he forced this, and honestly everyone tells me there is NO way they would have tolerated this for nearly this long, a long time ago. So I have to trust my gut and people who know me and you guys!

I will for sure be hanging out here, it is SOO helpful ,thank you thank you thank you!

Are you familiar with the seesaw analogy I use when I describe a typical pwBPD's "experience" in a relationship?

[apepper21]

apepper,

I bet you were none of those things. If you were mean etc etc, you wouldn't cause him to feel engulfed, he wouldn't need to fear intimacy with you because there wouldn't be any. It's gone wrong because you are understanding and caring... .that's my take on it anyway!

Hang in with us during the difficult times, it made a big difference to me.

Love Lifewriter

Yep.  That's what I think too.  The seesaw got to much out of control, so he bailed.  Now that it's slowed, he's trying to do damage control.  Now that has failed too, the seesaw is back to moving. It's a never ending cycle.

Thank you both! That is so sweet, and I think you are correct, that if I WAS those things he wouldn't have become attracted to me, and yes, he does this out of defense, b/c he DOES care and b/c I DO care, and he can't handle that. SOO bizarre, I'm very NOT like that.

LA: Yes, the seesaw became too much for him, so he bailed, then when he saw I was ok with being done, he's trying to get it back? And the seesaw will keep going? I have no idea what to expect here. It's so confusing and crazy, I need to keep remembering to focus on ME, to know I DID do my best and this got to this point b/c of HIM, not me, not that I'm a blamer, but in this case I truly believe he forced this, and honestly everyone tells me there is NO way they would have tolerated this for nearly this long, a long time ago. So I have to trust my gut and people who know me and you guys!

I will for sure be hanging out here, it is SOO helpful ,thank you thank you thank you!

Are you familiar with the seesaw analogy I use when I describe a typical pwBPD's "experience" in a relationship?

I'm not sure, I thought so. The cycle between putting me on a pedestal to then devaluing me? Or do you mean, wanting me close, but then when I am, pushing me away? In either case, I don't know how that got too much for HIM, since he was the one doing it?

[Lonely_Astro]

Not exactly, Pepper.

It was best described to me that people with BPD live on a seesaw (relationship wise).  On one end of the seesaw is Abandonment, the other Engulfment.  They run from one end of the seesaw to the other at breakneck speeds to try to get it to balance until the seesaw is so back and forth that they jump off of it to get it calm (where as most 'normal' people can balance the seesaw, BPDs can't).  Usually how they do this is via triangulation (new r/s).  Once they have one foot on the new seesaw, the "old" one calms a bit but they can't fully trust that seesaw anymore, so it must be "bad".  So, since they can't trust the old seesaw, they jump to the new seesaw because its nice and calm.  It's good.  Then they start running back and forth on the new one.  The process starts all over again.   They are, essentially, trapped in an infinite loop, they just can't see it.

Does that make more sense?