How do our FOO issues set us up for BPD relationships?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I have serious issues with my parents. One is cold and narcissistic, the other is just plain distant. I can see that this probably plays into my inability to detach from the unhealthy relationship that I have been involved in. Anybody have similar thoughts or insights about this?

[anothercasualty]

I have serious issues with my parents. One is cold and narcissistic, the other is just plain distant. I can see that this probably plays into my inability to detach from the unhealthy relationship that I have been involved in. Anybody have similar thoughts or insights about this?

[WoundedBibi]

Yes... .I still haven't figured out if my mum was just distant (and underneath that scared) or a bit of a Narc. She has never cuddled her children, touching her was a no-no, and it took 25 years before she told me she loved me. I haven't *really* thought about it. Scared for what I might discover perhaps. My dad never really mentally grew up, clear case of arrested development, and therefore could not handle his children after the age of 12. An opinion that wasn't the same as his? It would freak him out so much he would pretend he was having a heart attack. At least I think he pretended. But as I couldn't be sure of course I would shut my mouth. I haven't figured out yet whether he had BPD or was just really sensitive or suffered (as my mum might have done too) from PTSD as they both were children when WW2 started and they suffered a lot during the war and never really got over that.

My parents had a *major* effect on how I handle relationships. I need to save people, the more difficult they are the more attractive I find them, the sensitive broken troubled souls are my type.

[WoundedBibi]

There might be a genetic component too. One of my cousins (through my mum) I think was uBPD. His life was a complete and utter mess. He killed himself last summer. The thing is I had forgotten (?) about his behaviour and had gone NC with him years ago. So when I met my ex I should have and could have recognized  the behaviour, but I somehow chose to ignore the warning signs and alarm bells I felt, setting me up for a nightmare. The promise of LOVE... the lure was stronger than my instinct telling me there was something wrong with this guy. Utterly stupid.

The cousin tried to get back at me in a grandiose way for going NC on him by trying to kill himself on my birthday. So I've had my share of BPD *bleep* last year and BPD revenge tactics. So it is now time for me to really learn, to really change my take on love and relationships.

[GreenEyedMonster]

For me, it wasn't my family so much as the community I was raised in.  My family was well-known for being successful and I was placed in challenging classes in school.  I often found myself being punished for tiny imperfections that would have been ignored if other kids my age had committed them.  For example, I once had my lunchtime taken away for not realizing that ONE page in a huge packet had a back side that needed to be completed.  I was placed at the "bad kids" table in the cafeteria, where other kids were invited to see the spectacle of me getting punished by our teacher.  I deeply internalized the idea that my reputation meant nothing, my past work meant nothing, and my efforts meant nothing.  The fact that most of my mistakes were the kinds of honest mistakes you'd expect of a kid, who is learning . . . that meant nothing too.  The only thing that really mattered was being perfect and being perfect all the time.

This carries over into my relationships.  I constantly fear that one flaw or one mistake will render me unworthy.  I don't expect people to say, "Well, she's a really great person, really smart, really loving.  She has a few little quirks, but I can live with those."  I expect the few little quirks to be deal breakers, because that's how I was trained.  I can accept quirks and flaws in other people easily, because I empathize with those who have been rejected due to small failures.  Unfortunately, the same empathy is seldom extended to me.

The end result is that I'm bait for people with Cluster B traits, especially NPD.  I will bend over backwards to be the "perfect" girlfriend and internalize all of my flaws and failings so that the other person never has to deal with or experience anything negative.  I will give them a pass on anything and everything, because it's mean to dump someone over small failings.  They have to turn into a giant snowball before I'll begin to see the light.  I have no sense that I have a right to mess up now and then and ask for forgiveness, or to disagree with someone that what I did wasn't so bad.  I try to earn people's love by giving them everything they want and need.

It's sad when people who have been ostracized for the same reason end up turning on each other, but that has been my life experience.

I'm currently taking a break from being in relationships to do some work on myself and learn how not to be taken advantage of.  I am going out with people for fun because I need to just get to know people and learn how to read them. 

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey AC-

I have serious issues with my parents. One is cold and narcissistic, the other is just plain distant. I can see that this probably plays into my inability to detach from the unhealthy relationship that I have been involved in. Anybody have similar thoughts or insights about this?

One thing that can help, as you detach and grow, is to discover what you weren't getting from your parents that you needed.  What was that?  A relationship with a borderline, someone without a 'self' of their own, is different than a partnership between two autonomous individuals, and when we try to get to a place of true emotional intimacy and interdependence it doesn't work, because a borderline is incapable of that.  So when we continue to try and go there without results it can trigger a longing, and longing for something we've always longed for, and we can even mistake the strong emotions around that for love.  Real love doesn't feel like an addiction.  Can you relate to any of that?

[joeramabeme]

Hey AC - i relate. My parents were also unable to form healthy bonds with their children and i have taken that into my adult r/s'. I like to point out that this learned behavior is not at all unheallthy in its own originating context; meaning, you simply learned to assimilate what you grew up with. 

As an adult we go into the world "relating" with the original techniques we learned and find that we receate our FOO r/s' with new people in our adult lives.

H2H asks a good question, are you going to find what you are looking for with your pwBPD traits?   I am sure that answer is evident.  What tends not to be evident is that the underlying issues with the attraction are within us.  Your pwBPD traits is not likely to change and so that leaves the ball in your court.

There is a lot of ceryhelpful literature on this sites Lessons section.

Does this make sense for you?

[WoundedBibi]

Joeramabeme, just to make sure I'm looking at the right stuff, Lessons and then 1.6 & 7.2 for this specific subject?

I've just read/skimmed the overview on the Lessons page as I feel too restless to dive deeper now. I was internalizing again for a moment, and then I had some very clear insights where I went wrong in my part of the relationship, and why, but because I wasn't writing anything down I got stuck in this maze of thoughts 

And I'm restless because I discovered some stuff that hurts, as in "AHA!    Ohhh   so that part was me as much as him... excrement... do I really want to know/feel this?... yes... need to be brave... "  I need to write these insights down on old fashioned paper, make more sense of it... .My head is like a sticky swamp full of mangrove trees 

[GreenEyedMonster]

Another website I found very helpful on this topic is Voicelessness.com.  It's run by a therapist who makes the assertion that children need to be given voices (opinions, input, legitimacy) or they develop problems as adults.  I saw myself in a lot of the articles there.

[WoundedBibi]

Thanks Green Eyed! Will look into it tomorrow when this restless has died down a bit and when I've had some sleep.

[DearBFF]

I had a very unhealthy FOO and have almost no relationship with them now.  I was adopted when I was a baby, yet I never developed any emotional attachment with them.  I discovered that I was adopted in 5th grade.  They never told me and kept it hidden.  They say they planned on telling me, but couldn't find the right moment.  I asked questions, they lied.  I saw things that they could have used to explain they lied.  I did as a child have an adopted friend and even a book called "I Am Adopted."  Before I learned to talk this friend disappeared and not long after the book went along with him.

I don't know what regular attachment feels like... .I am drawn to emotionally heightened individuals because average ones do nothing for me.  I cannot FEEL them... .they're love, happiness, desire.  Almost nothing.  There are blips here and there, but it has to be some extreme moment.  Even my own husband.  I KNOW he loves me, but I have only FELT his love maybe twice our entire 13.5 year relationship.

My daughter... .she is like me so her over-emotionality helps me FEEL her love.  It's one of the best feelings in the world for her to want to be near me and snuggle as it fills a whole in me that cannot be filled otherwise by average emotional people.  I do not worry about her though because while her empathy is off the charts, she is not needy or clingy.  She is independent, enjoys time alone and makes friends easily (even if she doesn't alway seem them often).  I think she will continue to be a happy person, with extremes now and then due to her emotional nature like me, but I know she FEELS loved.  This makes me so happy!  I have, I am, doing something so right with her.

GreenEyedMonster, thank you for that website.  I agree that a child needs these things to feel like a person.  It saddens me when my BFF says things like my daughter is disrespectful because she doesn't jump to attention when BFF asks her to do something like her own daughter does.  (I stop this as it happens, by the way, my daughter does not this deserve this treatment, nobody does in my opinion.)  I want my child to feel respected so I GIVE her respect, I do not DEMAND it.  Anyone who DEMANDS respect is generally someone who is feared and not truly respected.  I always tell BFF she doesn't know my daughter.  In my own home, I can ask my daughter to do something in an even tone of voice sometimes even sweetly.  If she is in the middle of something she will ask if it can be done later.  I usually give her choices about how/when it can be done.  This allows her to feel empowered instead of controlled and I feel she is happier because of it.

[anothercasualty]

My parents had a *major* effect on how I handle relationships. I need to save people, the more difficult they are the more attractive I find them, the sensitive broken troubled souls are my type.

I am a major rescuer as well. This relationship made that clear. I have passed on very "normal" people because I was afraid I would run them over with my strong personality. At least that was my reasoning at the time. Now, I think I really was nervous to be in a relationship that might work.

[anothercasualty]

So when we continue to try and go there without results it can trigger a longing, and longing for something we've always longed for, and we can even mistake the strong emotions around that for love.  Real love doesn't feel like an addiction.  Can you relate to any of that?

It does resonate. I think since the breakup, it has morphed from pure love to an addiction for me. And, there is no doubt that I missed out on connection with my parents and family. My goal in life is to be sure I don't do the same to my kiddo. Ugh.

[anothercasualty]

H2H asks a good question, are you going to find what you are looking for with your pwBPD traits?   I am sure that answer is evident.  What tends not to be evident is that the underlying issues with the attraction are within us.  Your pwBPD traits is not likely to change and so that leaves the ball in your court.

There is a lot of ceryhelpful literature on this sites Lessons section.

Does this make sense for you?

It does make sense. I realize I have my part in this and I am trying to dig deep to understand why the heck I have stayed and pushed for this relationship. She is a good person. She is very attractive and intelligent. On paper, she is a catch. Once the behaviors became evident, this became a new ballgame and you are 100% correct. I cannot control, cure, or fix her. But I can do those things for me.

One of the difficulties I have faced is growing up very narcissistic myself. Then realizing it, and deciding to change but swinging fully to the other side and doing nothing for myself and everything for others. Then trying to reconcile not giving all for others with my Christian faith. Not gonna lie, this has been tough to face and find a balance.

[GreenEyedMonster]

DearBFF, that's interesting what you said about your daughter.  Some people think that's very permissive parenting, but I think children need an outlet for their emotions and opinions.  The therapist on the website (whose name escapes me at the moment) says that children learn emotional regulation by having their feelings validated and legitimized by adults, and then having adults model what to do with those feelings.  Children who are told their feelings are "wrong" end up dysregulated and distrusting of themselves.  I definitely had this experience as a child, and my exBPD partner had it ten times worse than I did.  That site is fascinating because it puts so many things into simple words and concepts that I had been feeling my whole life.

[DearBFF]

Children who are told their feelings are "wrong" end up dysregulated and distrusting of themselves.  I definitely had this experience as a child, and my exBPD partner had it ten times worse than I did.

GreenEyedMonster, exactly!  I have witnessed this with BFF and even mentioned it previously, but now I realized there is no point if she will not listen, or is not ready to.  For instance she'll speak harshly to her daughter and then her daughter is hurt by this (obviously) and withdraws.  She calls her daughter over and says things like, "Why are you said?  You have a friend her (my daughter) go and play you have no reason to be sad."  I try to do my best for her and usually bend down close and say things like "I understand what she said upset you.  I am sorry she said that to you, and it hurt your feelings.  I think you should talk to her about it."  Unfortunately, when BFF's response is as above she totally misses the point.  I fear she will one day have contributed to possible BPD or BPD-like symptoms in her daughter.

It's so hard to understand because as you said, your exBPD partner had it worse.  BFF explains to me that she felt unheard, as a child, like her mother didn't take her cries for help and cutting more seriously, that she was too focused on herself.  Now I see BFF do the same, almost never recognizing that she is repeating the pattern.  I also just realized that I think BFF also goes into push/pull and black/white with her daughter.  Sometimes she tells me she cannot live without her and she is her life, and she just wants mother-daughter time with her alone.  I completely understand and respect that.  Other times BFF is seemingly trying to get rid of her daughter asking if I will take her one night for a sleepover or sometimes even a weekend.  That just makes no sense... .it's like she can't make up her mind.

I am working hard to correct things that my FOO has broken within me so that I cannot make the same mistakes with my daughter.  As far as I can tell she is attached (unlike I was), but not clingy like BFF's daughter.  She speaks her mind (unfortunately sometimes at inopportune times, we are working on that), and does not seem fearful to do so like BFF's daughter.  Also, one of my favorite things about her is her level of empathy.  She can see when I am sad and asks me about it.  I love that she asks instead of assumes (something BFF does), then she says she is sorry I am sad, yet understands this does not mean she has to have a bad day.  Within a few minutes after a hug and a smile she can be heard in the other room laughing at a video or playing in her room.  I LOVE this about her... .but I do worry that her empathy may make her vulnerable to disordered people since they will probably be able to sense that about her.  Like me, I think her  may be too big!  I just hope she learns over time how to put up boundaries to protect it from people who might take advantage, yet still leaves herself open to love. 

Thank you, GreenEyedMonster!