My girlfriend kind of admits she's abusive. Do I believe she's changed?

[Biff0710]

Good morning,

I've been in my relationship for 3.5 years now.  Lived together for about 2 of those.  In the past she was emotionally abusive by criticising and always finding out it was never enough.  She wants to get married and I do as well but I'm worried that side of her will come back out.  A year ago I called her out on her abusive behavior and she recognized she was doing it and effectively stopped with some lapses but only a handful or so.  She has turned up the pressure on us getting married due to her age and is panicking I'm not committed to this relationship.  I want to believe her that she has changed her ways but when we had a talk the other night she blamed the abuse on the fact that I was hard to get to know and she has always loved me than I loved her (which isn't the case). Has anyone been with someone who stopped abusing and never reverted back without fully admitting without blaming it on something? I know this is a short synopsis but just wanted some general answers on change in abusers.

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[revmwej]

Has anyone been with someone who stopped abusing and never reverted back without fully admitting without blaming it on something?

It is hard to ignore the past but in my experience change can happen, if you let it.  The question is are you open to a relapse.  No one is perfect, so there is that possibility.  Another thing to think about is have you explored her "triggers" and the root causes of her pain.  If you make a concerted effort to get to the bottom of her hurt you might be able to ward off a relapse.  Hope this helps.

[C.Stein]

Welcome 

I believe your hesitation comes from rational and logical thought which is what you need when dealing with a borderline.   In my relationship I had serious doubts too and was the relationship was much the same as yours.  The really bad abusive behavior lessened somewhat but never really stopped and it got more subtle.  This kept me in a near constant state of fear and anxiety ... .i.e. the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt).  I let it blind me from the truth that was staring me in the face.

Having reading many different accounts of peoples relationships on this site, one thing has stood out when marriage is involved is many times borderline type behavior get worse.  There are many different reasons for this and given it is a spectrum disorder this can manifest in many different ways or not at all (initially).  Point is here you need to be prepared for what might happen and have realistic expectations if you move forward with a marriage. 

I recommend learning as much about the disorder as you can and the challenges you will be facing.  Take some time to read through some threads on the improving board so you can get a realistic view of the challenges you might face once married.

Please feel comfortable asking questions and sharing your story, it helps.   

[Lucky Jim]

Having reading many different accounts of peoples relationships on this site, one thing has stood out when marriage is involved is many times borderline type behavior get worse.

Hey Biff, I agree with C. Stein.  Don't rule out the possibility that the abusive behavior can get significantly worse over time.  Like you, I though that my BPDxW's emotions would calm down after marriage, which they did, temporarily.  Over time, however, things got much worse, which is how I found out about BPD and discovered this site.  It's a complex disorder and your situation is, of course, different from mine.  Forewarned is forearmed!

LuckyJim

[Biff0710]

Rev,

She made the excuse that I don't love her as much as she loves me which I don't think there is a way around that.  I continually tell her I love her and she's the best but one thing she did mention is that she wanted to go on more dates.  So not going on enough dates could trigger this?

[Grey Kitty]

My stbexw did get over being abusive. (Our marriage is ending over other issues, both external events and my wife's behavior, which came up years after the abuse issue was cured. I say "cured" because she didn't even try to behave abusively like that during our split!)

The abuse gradually crept up over a decade or more. Eventually I started trying to push back against it, even working toward somewhat more effective methods. A couple years later, I found these forums, and got much better tools to protect myself from the abuse (which was mostly emotional and verbal, usually without raging/screaming at me)

At one point she started looking for ways to reduce the conflict in our relationship, and found a workshop that interested her... .and realized on reading the initial material that SHE was behaving abusively, even though her way of doing it was accusing me of abusing her. (That I'd been responding to the abuse for a while with relatively healthy boundary enforcement probably made this clearer, I'm pretty sure looking back at it.)

Even after this, it took quite a while for her to do the internal work she had to do in order to stop herself from falling into that pattern... .even with me consistently enforcing boundaries against her attempts to behave abusively.

I'm not sure how rare her improvement was, but it is possible. Either way, If you want to go forward with this woman, you have to do it accepting that she may never change.

Having reading many different accounts of peoples relationships on this site, one thing has stood out when marriage is involved is many times borderline type behavior get worse.

My version of this is that unchecked abusive behavior will always escalate. OTOH, if you stop tolerating abusive behavior, it will go away.

Otherwise, the relationship will end because you are not going to accept abusive behavior, and she cannot stop it... .but I can think of very few situations where the relationship ended that way. Far more relationships end when the non leaves because they cannot figure out how to stop the abuse, but cannot live with it anymore.

If you learn the tools here, you can turn this around. I know. I've done it.



Here's another question... .what about her "turning up the pressure" on you to get married?

How is she doing that? (Please give details)

Is it abusive/manipulative?

Is it respectful of you, and honest about what really matters to her?

[C.Stein]

Far more relationships end when the non leaves because they cannot figure out how to stop the abuse, but cannot live with it anymore.

Also consider sometimes the only way to stop the abuse is to leave.

[Grey Kitty]

When she says something like this:

I don't love her as much as she loves me

That is being emotionally abusive, at least if she is saying it with a context/expectation that you can 'fix' it or that it is your fault.

It sounds like she is afraid you don't love her... .if so, telling her that you love her doesn't address that fear properly. At that time, you are actually invalidating her feelings when you tell her you love her--by telling her that her very real FEAR is WRONG. It is far better to acknowledge that she is feeling the fear instead. This is kinda subtle stuff about validation and invalidation, especially if these are new concepts for you.

Note: I'm not suggesting you shouldn't be telling her that you love her--just that this may not be the best time, and that arguing with her about it or fighting with her about it is a possibility and will only make things worse.

[Biff0710]

My stbexw did get over being abusive. (Our marriage is ending over other issues, both external events and my wife's behavior, which came up years after the abuse issue was cured. I say "cured" because she didn't even try to behave abusively like that during our split!)

The abuse gradually crept up over a decade or more. Eventually I started trying to push back against it, even working toward somewhat more effective methods. A couple years later, I found these forums, and got much better tools to protect myself from the abuse (which was mostly emotional and verbal, usually without raging/screaming at me)

At one point she started looking for ways to reduce the conflict in our relationship, and found a workshop that interested her... .and realized on reading the initial material that SHE was behaving abusively, even though her way of doing it was accusing me of abusing her. (That I'd been responding to the abuse for a while with relatively healthy boundary enforcement probably made this clearer, I'm pretty sure looking back at it.)

Even after this, it took quite a while for her to do the internal work she had to do in order to stop herself from falling into that pattern... .even with me consistently enforcing boundaries against her attempts to behave abusively.

I'm not sure how rare her improvement was, but it is possible. Either way, If you want to go forward with this woman, you have to do it accepting that she may never change.

Having reading many different accounts of peoples relationships on this site, one thing has stood out when marriage is involved is many times borderline type behavior get worse.

My version of this is that unchecked abusive behavior will always escalate. OTOH, if you stop tolerating abusive behavior, it will go away.

Otherwise, the relationship will end because you are not going to accept abusive behavior, and she cannot stop it... .but I can think of very few situations where the relationship ended that way. Far more relationships end when the non leaves because they cannot figure out how to stop the abuse, but cannot live with it anymore.

If you learn the tools here, you can turn this around. I know. I've done it.



Here's another question... .what about her "turning up the pressure" on you to get married?

How is she doing that? (Please give details)

Is it abusive/manipulative?

Is it respectful of you, and honest about what really matters to her?

Grey,

She's in her mid-late thirties and has always wanted children.  Her biological clock is ringing very loudly seeing all of her friends get married and have children.  Over the past several weeks every weekend she has said that she's done with the relationship and can't wait any longer and I beg her to stay and that we will do it.  Tha lt happened 4 weekends in a row.  After that though it turns me off because I see what is happening with the "I think we're done or I'm done" with this. I told her last night that if she does that again and says it's done that in not going to beg anymore and I will leave.  She said that I was threatening her.  I just told her if she says that to mean it and understand the consequences that I will leave and not stick around if something like that is said.  I love her very much and is such a good person but it is killing me because I don't know if she's wanting to marry me for the right reasons or not.  I know pressuring for marriage is never a good thing but neither is trying to hold out hope that something will change/click that pressuring is actually scaring me off.

[Biff0710]

When she says something like this:

I don't love her as much as she loves me

That is being emotionally abusive, at least if she is saying it with a context/expectation that you can 'fix' it or that it is your fault.

It sounds like she is afraid you don't love her... .if so, telling her that you love her doesn't address that fear properly. At that time, you are actually invalidating her feelings when you tell her you love her--by telling her that her very real FEAR is WRONG. It is far better to acknowledge that she is feeling the fear instead. This is kinda subtle stuff about validation and invalidation, especially if these are new concepts for you.

Note: I'm not suggesting you shouldn't be telling her that you love her--just that this may not be the best time, and that arguing with her about it or fighting with her about it is a possibility and will only make things worse.

Grey, 

I ask her what I can do to help/fix and she said I don't know which leads me to believe its made to manipulate me. I understand the fear is real but she can't tell me how to fix it or what I can do.

[C.Stein]

She's in her mid-late thirties and has always wanted children.  Her biological clock is ringing very loudly seeing all of her friends get married and have children.

My ex was very much the same during our relationship ... also mid thirties.  She is so consumed with her desire for a family she has completely lost sight of the type of relationship that is required to have a successful family.  I believe she feels that a family/child will fix all the problems within her and this is so very wrong on so many levels.  The instability in our relationship caused me to hesitate and I was also resistant to building a family until we had a stable and healthy relationship.

In the end I was replaced with a "clean slate" then easily thrown away like a piece of trash.  She did not love ME but rather she loved what she thought she could get from me ... .her needs fulfilled, one of them being a family. 

I feel this is something you need to ferret out here given her attempts to emotionally blackmail and guilt you into a course of action ... .something my ex did as well.

[livednlearned]

Good morning,

I've been in my relationship for 3.5 years now.  Lived together for about 2 of those.  In the past she was emotionally abusive by criticising and always finding out it was never enough.  She wants to get married and I do as well but I'm worried that side of her will come back out.  A year ago I called her out on her abusive behavior and she recognized she was doing it and effectively stopped with some lapses but only a handful or so.  She has turned up the pressure on us getting married due to her age and is panicking I'm not committed to this relationship.  I want to believe her that she has changed her ways but when we had a talk the other night she blamed the abuse on the fact that I was hard to get to know and she has always loved me than I loved her (which isn't the case). Has anyone been with someone who stopped abusing and never reverted back without fully admitting without blaming it on something? I know this is a short synopsis but just wanted some general answers on change in abusers.

Hi Biff,

Part of being in a BPD relationship is accepting that she has BPD. Getting married, having a child, these are stressful events, and people with BPD don't do stress well. Even without BPD, having a baby can be a hormonal roller coaster. Same for some of the other things you've mentioned, like watching friends get married, getting older.

People with BPD are also extremely intuitive and sensitive and it sounds like she is (rightly) aware that you have a foot in and a foot out. That is a difficult feeling for anyone to experience, especially someone who feels pressure to settle down and start a family. It would be within the realm of normal for her to start struggling with her own emotional regulation.

One thing that can mitigate some of the difficulties is learning the tools that others here have used to stabilize their relationships. Everyone with BPD is different, as are the "non" BPD partners, and the dynamics are different. Your commitment may be more about enforcing boundaries and learning about BPD and helpful skills so that you can move forward in a way that feels right to you.

The commitment is often about whether you are committed to being the emotional leader in the relationship, since many people with BPD do not have adult level emotional skills. Validation (what GK mentioned) is an important first step.

Is this something you would be willing to try in your relationship? It won't cure her BPD, and it won't make all the problems go away. It will mitigate some of the problems and give you a sense of control over your own part of the dynamic.

[HopefulDad]

Grey,

She's in her mid-late thirties and has always wanted children.  Her biological clock is ringing very loudly seeing all of her friends get married and have children.  Over the past several weeks every weekend she has said that she's done with the relationship and can't wait any longer and I beg her to stay and that we will do it.  Tha lt happened 4 weekends in a row.  After that though it turns me off because I see what is happening with the "I think we're done or I'm done" with this. I told her last night that if she does that again and says it's done that in not going to beg anymore and I will leave.  She said that I was threatening her.  I just told her if she says that to mean it and understand the consequences that I will leave and not stick around if something like that is said.  I love her very much and is such a good person but it is killing me because I don't know if she's wanting to marry me for the right reasons or not.  I know pressuring for marriage is never a good thing but neither is trying to hold out hope that something will change/click that pressuring is actually scaring me off.

On the big bolded: ugh!  I had to face the "let's get married" pressure, not so much the biological clock part, but still.  Let's just say that present day me would never do what mid-90s me did regarding that.

Since this is the saving relationship board, I'm not going to give you advice to stay or leave.  I am, however, going to throw in my two cents on what I think is in store for you: I do not think your GF will magically "get better" once married.  And good luck if you have a strong-willed child with her: Watching the two of them go at it provides years of "entertainment", as well as having the non-stop fun of listening to your wife complain constantly about your "bad child".  :)ecide if you're up for that because that's what you are more likely than not looking at moving forward.

[HopefulDad]

And on the topic in the subject line:

My ex admitted her "emotional violence" after realizing it with the help of our first MC.  She made a lot of progress for months.  Then one day she was triggered by something and she went back to square one.

Ever play the kids board game "Chutes and Ladders"?  If that was representative of the progress my BPDxw made, she was always landing on the big slide that took her from the top of the board to the bottom of the board.  IIRC, that was the "broke the cookie jar" slide.  My ex broke a lot of cookie jars 

[Grey Kitty]

Over the past several weeks every weekend she has said that she's done with the relationship and can't wait any longer and I beg her to stay and that we will do it.  Tha lt happened 4 weekends in a row.

I'd recommend a middle ground approach. Next time she says this, tell her that you don't want to break up, but can't and won't keep her if she wants to leave.



You can get good with boundaries, and protect yourself against abusive behavior. It isn't easy, and you learn things that work which don't feel intuitive or natural... .but your "natural" ways of coping haven't been working very well I'm going to guess anyways... .at least mine didn't!

I will echo something hopefuldad said... .*IF* you get married, and *IF* you have children with her, I'm pretty sure that the abusive behavior will either get worse or stay the same, absent other efforts on your part. I'd strongly suggest you work on that first.

I suggest you start with a couple lessons here.

It is very natural to say a lot of invalidating things. I know I did it for years before I figured it out. Stopping this really helps reduce the temperature a LOT.

TOOLS: Stop Invalidating Your Partner (or the BPD person in your life)

Boundary enforcement is exactly what you need to deal with abusive behavior on her part. Please read this too.

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence