Keep nagging and pressuring, or let her fail?

[Big M]

My daughter is driving us crazy with not doing schoolwork.  Trying to nag or force her to do it results in a blow out every time. She doesn't seem to care at all about it, says her future means nothing to her, she doesn't want to live, but then says she isn't suicidal.  Should we just let her fail?  Anybody have any success with just letting a BPD teen suffer the natural consequences of his/her behavior?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

Hi Big M,

I did my best to tie privileges to responsibilities.

Does your d have privileges that she is being given without earning them?

TV, car, cell phone, outings with friends... .?

How is she doing in school other than the homework?

lbj

[RunningWithScissors]

Natural consequences/letting them fail was the only thing that worked with my BPD stepson (who is doing awesome now, by the way!).  We stuck to our boundaries and he decided he couldn't stand living with us so he moved out on his own to another city. 

After not showing up for work a few times, he was fired.  Repeated this pattern with other jobs, with the same result.  Couldn't pay his rent so the landlord threw him out with 24 hours notice.  He crashed on friend's couches, but quickly overstayed his welcome.  Tried living in a shelter but found the rules there to be even more unbearable than those at home.  He spent a few weeks literally living on the streets, spending what little cash he had on pot and booze.  He lost most of his personal possessions throughout this process, got roughed up when he picked fights with the wrong people,  and was living out of a backpack.

And what did we do?  It was tough not to rescue him, but we didn't.  We had to learn to be comfortable with feeling uncomfortable.  We simply provided support, offered problem-solving ideas but left the onus for figuring things out on him, and only paid for a small storage locker for his things for a few weeks while he was homeless.  He realized that we weren't going to save him from his own choices and actions and slowly got himself back on track.

Today, he's married, has never missed a rent payment in the apartment he shares with his wife, works multiple jobs and is known as a hard worker.  He's even contemplating finishing his high school diploma because he has ambitions beyond working minimum wage jobs.  It was a bumpy road to get here, but he did the work (including years of DBT) and now has a bright future.  THERE IS HOPE!

[landslide]

Big M, 

All my sympathies to you!  We have been in the same battle for years. This has been a hard one for me, as  it feels like you are literally watching your child flush opportunities down the toilet.  We have stepped back a lot in the last 6 months, and while my 16 y.o. is currently failing multiple classes, I think it is sinking in better than when we pleaded and cajoled.  We do tie privileges to homework completion but try to keep the conversations brief and factual.  We very recently got an IEP in place at school on the basis of her emotional issues, which allows her to get some one on one time and extensions as needed.  We reach out to the teachers and the support staff because it goes better coming from them, and it reinforces her using professional supports as needed.   I keep reminding myself there are many successful people who took very circuitous paths. 

And thank you RunningWithScissors for sharing your stepson's story.  You faced exactly what I fear most, and it's good to hear people can come out well on the other side!   

[livednlearned]

I am dealing with this with my son, too (14).

What happens when your daughter says she doesn't want to live? How do you respond?

It can be hard for our kids to care about schoolwork when they feel so awful and depressed. I had to learn to listen and care, and during less emotional times, be almost businesslike, and discuss the school repercussions (summer school).

"How would you like me to help you?"

"Are you feeling ok about this class?"

New for us, S14 is now starting medication. Or we are at least talking about it. Up until now, he has resisted very forcefully. His psychiatrist says it can be one thing to say, "I'm depressed," and another to admit you are so messed up you need medication. I have a hunch that listening and validating S14 has made it possible for him to consider medication. He suggested on his own that his trouble at school is connected to his depression.

I read this helpful article about communication styles with kids, where there are "intent to task" conversations (about maturation skills), and then "intent to understand" conversation (about relationship skills). It helped to recognize why parenting is so hard with S14. He wants all of the "intent to understand" goodies and isn't so interested in the "intent to task" conversation. Part of my challenge is learning how to weave those two things (maturation and relationship building) together.

[Lollypop]

Hi

I'm a mature student at 53 and went back to college 2 years ago. I start my degree this year. This experience opened up my eyes. I really can appreciate just how hard it is to go your very best all day, every day ; particularly when you're not particularly enjoying something or it's challenging. I love what I do but every one of us in my group, at one time or other,  has had a meltdown as personal stuff has got in the way - and we're adults without raging hormones etc!

I really don't know what the answer is regarding homework with a son or daughter with BPD. There's a lot one can do to support and acknowledge the trial of it though.

I was heartened to hear running water story. Thanks so much for sharing and to remind me that I may yet need to be that brave.

L

[Big M]

Thank you all for the support.  We have tied privileges to homework with only limited success.  All she cares about is her cell phone and computer, we have taken those away for up to a week at a time with only limited success.  She can make her self "not care" about either for several days at a time, still not doing her work without massive interventions, and then eventually blackmails us with "these are my coping mechanisms, nothing else works, I will kill myself if I don't have them", you know the drill. She is a very intelligent kid in gifted and talented classes, I've a mind to let her fail out of them maybe the potential loss of her "smart" status at school could provide some motivation ... .It's really, really hard to find what motivates someone who seems to have given up on themselves, as you all probably know.

[8daysAweek]

Hey Big M,

When I was a student, I really struggled to accept the fact that I had to go to school and do homework. I did not enjoy it at all. Though I was very smart and did well in class I hardly ever did my homework. I realize now that I could have graduated with all As instead of Bs and Cs if I would have put more effort into out of class studies. What really got me to do my homework was when my parents offered me rewards for finishing it. For instance, buying me a new phone, giving me some extra cash to go see a movie with a friend, or putting some gas in my car. As well as little things like getting me my favorite candy bar, or bringing me some Subway for lunch at school.

My parents tried not to take away my privileges, because that discouraged me from doing things that needed to be done. Instead, they gave me a reason why I should do those things by pairing duties with privileges. 

Every person likes different things, and the smallest of gestures can really make a difference.

[RunningWithScissors]

Big M - my stepson also used threats of suicide to avoid dealing with his issues.  Anytime he was asked to fulfill his obligations, no matter how small or inconsequential, he threatened to kill himself.  He had the whole household, including a younger sibling, caught up in a cycle of fear and guilt.  It only stopped when my husband confronted him and said 'If you kill yourself, it would be the worst day of my life, but I would move on.  If you need help coping, we can work together to find support for you.  However, I will no longer allow you to control everyone in this house with your threats.  Everyone in this house needs to contribute including you.   I love you.  Make your choice.'.

It was a huge risk but it worked - the threats of suicide ended right there.  Dealing with threats of suicide is a tough issue, and I don't mean to imply that our approach is the right way.  You know your child best, and professional involvement may be required.

We also realized that although our BPD son would dismiss the removal of privileges (such as access to phone/computer) by saying 'I don't care', he DID care.  The more he shrugged it off, the more it mattered to him, but he didn't want to admit to that as he saw it as giving up power and control.  Again, this was one of our boundaries - each time he didn't complete a task, his phone and computer went away.  And each time he shrugged it off, we reinforced the connection between the action and consequence, and noted that losing the computer or phone affected only him, not us, so we would continue to enforce this process.

I do agree with the previous poster that positive reinforcement is needed. We created a fictional character who would slip snacks with notes of encouragement into his backpack for him to find randomly throughout the day.  Of course, he knew it was us,  but having this pretend separation made it easier for both of us to communicate.  Years later, we're still using this system to mail small gifts to him, like acts of random kindness just to show our ongoing support.

[ProfDaddy]

Hey Big M,

I have faced similar parenting struggles and understand how difficult this can be.  I'm raising two children, one diagnosed with "pre-borderline" tendencies, the other facing problems with anxiety, depression, and adhd.  Natural consequences are effective but also one of the most difficult things I do as a parent - I so often want to protect my kids from failure when I see it coming.  All that changes is the overall level of anxiety in the house: I watch more closely, more often, earlier, giving my children the message that they can't function without my nagging and they'll never be good enough to satisfy me.  So often the threats I use backfire and turn into a war of escalating consequences in which both the parents and the children get more extreme in our reactions because we feel that nobody is being heard.  With my son (age 11) the suicidal language comes out when his feelings get so big that normal teen attitude doesn't feel big enough to express his mental state.  [I should also mention that S11 is so badly out of control that he is a threat to himself and others, so he has been living at an RTC for quite a while... .but that's another story.]

How can you take yourself out of the intervention process for your child?  By all means set firm limits, enforce consequences, be a parent, but try not to expand past your role as a parent and become omnipotent, following as your child's conscience wherever they go.  Can the guidance counselor at school offer support -- sometimes our children will accept the same advice and support from the guidance counselor that they reject from parents.  A therapist can also offer support.  It might help to meet privately with the guidance counselor or therapist, without your daughter present, so that later when they do work together, it can be just them and not a two adults tag teaming on one child situation.  That might also give your daughter a safe place to vent about you, so that their frustration with parents doesn't come out sideways as problem behaviors.

Can you take yourself out of the cell phone argument by using the scheduling options your carrier offers or by installing software like SecureTeen?  Those programs can switch a cell phone to "emergency only" options during selected hours.  We have my D14's cell phone in emergency only mode at night and during school hours.  I can limit social media on her phone, block any application, so that the phone is not a distraction.  The first few months of this were miserable for everyone; now it is just accepted that she is too young to have access to those services and that at certain times the phone is off. 

Parenting books are helpful to maintain perspective.  "How to raise an adult" was good, if a bit slanted towards wealthy helicopter parents.  I just started reading "untangled: guiding teenage girls through the seven trans into adulthood."  That book has many chapters on behaviors that I struggle to understand as a parent and is much more geared towards those of us raising children who experience some bumps on the road to adulthood.

Don't lose hope. It is good to see how much you love and care for your daughter.

ProfDaddy

[qcarolr]

There are a lot of good ideas here. I sounds like we each need to know our kiddo for what works. My gd10, who lives with dh and I, refuses to do homework. As a 5th Grader she does a homework 'club' twice a week after school, and we help with research projects (intense fears around presentations >>> ignore assignment>>>last minute crisis). I am so nervous about her transition to middle school next year and the increased demands of homework. I have to get a tougher skin I think.

qcr Carol

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[fizzerjoon]

I can relate to this post about school work and nagging!  My d17 is a great student when she isn't in crisis.  But, when in crisis she let's many classes go - currently failing 2 classes as a second semester jr.  in high school.   She is also refusing to go to school.  She says she simply CANNOT focus when she is in a deep depression.  However, she can be social with friends.  She avoids my dh and I when we encourage homework.  Last night she wanted to hang out with friends and we said no due to her homework load.  She freaked out!  Cried, tantrum -ed, ripped her clothes, and refused to talk to us the rest of the night.  She stayed up most of the night doing a sewing project and refused to get up this morning.  We are exhausted and afraid for her and us.  Frankly, it's also embarrassing to have to call her case manager at school several times a week to report that we haven't been successful in getting her to do any work.  It may be time for another hospitalization to get her regulated.  Sad for her that her jr. year in high school is going down the tubes.

My dh does not make boundaries with her at all because he fears the tantrums. 

Our d13 is always afraid of her sister

and, d17 refuses DBT therapy. 

Thank you for sharing - all of you.

[Big M]

Thank you all for the advice- basically what we decided to do is draw up a contract with her that rewards success.  Basically, without adding to many details, we set up a tier-based reward system towards a new phone for her.  Excellent grades= more $, OK grades= some $, (substantially less), Mediocre grades= small amount of $ towards phone.  Anything less, and she cannot get a new phone even if she pays for it with "her" money (that she's accumulated through birthdays and allowances).  She has signed the contract and seems OK with it.  One clause of the contract was that we would cease nagging her at all about her grades- we laid out the terms and she either meets them or she doesn't.  Hopefully this will communicate to her that she's capable of handling the responsibility, and if she isn't, hopefully it will drive home the message that it's up to her to get better.  I have to admit I'm not optimistic about her doing well, and I do realize that BPD's generally can figure out a way to believe that something isn't their fault, even when it very obviously is.  But, she is almost 16 years old, there just aren't that many options available for "teaching" someone that age how life really works.  It seems that giving her the opportunity to fail is about all that's left.  Others on this thread, please know you aren't alone, and please know you did not cause this illness, it's literally just bad luck.

[landslide]

Others on this thread, please know you aren't alone, and please know you did not cause this illness, it's literally just bad luck.

Thanks for sharing what you came up with and especially for the comment above.  I cannot hear this enough times right now, there has been so much guilt!