Debt

[Lollypop]

Hi

Any comments gratefully received.

Bpds25 dropped out of university in 2009. Returned home in a complete mess. He wasn't ready for uni, wrong course, wrong place, wrong time, wrong housing arrangement. All wrong.  He was in debt to the bank (overdraft) £1500.  He got a FT job locally and paid us rent. He chose to ignore his debt letters and we left him to it. In Dec, we found out he'd taken out a small loan from @nga, there was a big row and we paid it off shouting "never do this again". It took me another 6 months to understand his drug use was a big problem. He left home July 2010. He took another loan out with @@nga, we left him to it. He lost his job within 5 months of leaving home. Downward spiral there on.

We accepted him home 7 months later and He managed to get into casual work, cash and the use of a building society. The debt letters and phone calls eventually stopped.

Bpds returned home mid-Dec. We are seeing very small steps of positive change. He is managing regular casual work, sorting out his own invoices so he can get paid. He's saved £100 and said yesterday "I don't want to touch that mum, I'll earn money for my rent to you".  We got his first rent payment yesterday. He said to me "it's coming together isn't it mum".

My plan was to get him used to regular payments for living costs; say 3 months and then increase it. We hope to get him fit enough with financial skills to at least attempt independent living early 2017, accepting that he'll need support for a while.

Bpds is relaxed in the house, he brings his girlfriend home quite a lot. I can hear him laughing and he's genuinely happy. I work on my skills. H is trying his best. We both see our younger son needs more support and we are doing this. It's not ideal, but we're finding a way to live. I really don't want to upset it.  I see Bpds trying his best with realistic expectations from us.

A debt letter arrived today. £1477.

My H wants to pay it and keep it quiet.

I know this isn't the right thing to do. However, this substantial debt was generated 6 years ago when he was 19 and in a drug crazed place. We've had a diagnosis now, we understand his limitations and this may just tip him over.  But there's an opportunity here but I feel the timing isn't right. Bpds should be registered self employed, deal with student finance, etc. There's a lot yet for him to do but he's barely managing the boundaries we've set.

What's your thoughts, oh wise people

L

Learning a better way... .

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Dibdob59]

Did your son open the debt letter that arrived today?

It's just that you say your husband wants to 'keep it quiet' so I am not sure why your son does not know about the letter and debt already.

[Rockieplace]

This is where a mental health support team would come in handy.  Of course, your s would need to be under some supervision or treatment from them.  They seemingly have people who help the BPD sufferer contact debt collection agencies and others to arrange things like Debt Relief Orders etc. (This is in the UK where you are anyhow Lollipop).  My daughter has been promised such assistance as she has all sorts of outstanding debts, although such assistance is very slow in coming - like all the other treatments/therapies she has been promised!

I can in no way profess to be an expert in these matters (who is?) but my natural instinct is that you shouldn't hide this from your son.

[Lollypop]

Hi dibdob

Bpds is very aware that he's in debt. It's another stressy with his other problems. Bpds never opened letters and we left him to it. Whenever he got a call he'd say "I'm a drug addict, you can't get any money from me". He put his head in the sand. This was pre diagnosis.

Bpds is not seeking treatment.  We encourage him to do so.

H is REALLY struggling to cope with life at the moment and is still reeling with blowing up last week at younger son. I think H is cracking and needs to see a doctor.  He just cant keep perspective and reacts, he's very tearful.

H told me to open up the letter to see what needed to be dealt with. I'm ashamed to say I did it.

H doesn't want to pay the debt back but sees the challenges ahead to force Bpds to deal with it. H isn't strong enough to do it.

Basically, I'm dealing with all three of them.

H cracking

Son15 anxious over school pressures and questioning his own mental health (I'm positive it's just adolescence but have a close eye on it, I've met with school)

Bpds who's stable and growing slowly

I see this debt from a previous life. Bpds did learn his lesson as he hasn't borrowed money in this way for 5 years.

L

L



this will be written off  when it's 7 years old.

[Lollypop]

Actually, I don't have to do anything.

There'll be another letter in a months time anyway.

This gives me some space to think about what I'm doing.

I realise that I can always find an excuse to bail Bpds out. It's never the right time.

Money management is one of our top priorities this year. It's the one thing I can and must teach him. But timing is key and being realistic too.

My problem is that there are just too many top priorities.

Thanks for reading. All comments most gratefully received.

L

[Lollypop]

Thank you rockieplace

My BPDs will remain off the radar until such a time as we ask him to leave (and currently he will fail so would eventually end up in crisis somewhere) or he chooses to seek treatment.

There would be a lot of help once he seeks treatment.

I'm very glad that your daughter has external support.

L

[Rockieplace]

Hi,  My daughter is supposed to have access to this facility from her team but it hasn't materialised so far.  She has become very frustrated to the point where she says she is going to deal with her debtors herself.  We'll see.  We are resisting very hard in stepping in and trying to sort out the mess for her as we feel that that would mean reverting to treating her like a child as we have been guilty of doing in the past.  That would be the easy way out not only for her but for us too to a certain extent and I don't think, long term, that it would help her or give her any consequences or indeed self-respect.  Also we aren't going to be around for ever!  It's hard though not to jump in to protect them I agree.

There is a big debate going on regarding mental illness and debt  isn't there?   I think that it is long overdue.  Even when my daughter was under section she was able to keep and use her debit card for purchases over the internet!  This seems to be completely mad to me.     

[Rockieplace]

We have found out today through a letter from a debt collection agency delivered to our house that my BPDd33 has run up over 6,000 pounds sterling in debt over the last year.  She hasn't lived with us for a number of years but I think she must have given our address as she has moved a lot in that time.

They say in the letter that the next step is to send the bailiffs round.

This has been a year in which she was on full pay until last month and mostly spent time in hospital where she was not covering her own living costs.

She posts constantly  on Facebook about what she has bought then promptly posts offering said items for sale at a fraction of the price she has paid for them.

She also posted something to the effect the other day  that 'happiness is spending recklessly and disappointing her family!'

I know she is struggling right now (but then when is she not?)and don't know how to handle this. If I handed her the letter I believe she would probably just throw it unread on the pile of unopened letters she has already accumulated. More worryingly, she may read it and do what she has done before and end up back in hospital. 

Any suggestions would be welcome.  (I don't know what I would do without these boards - I really don't). I hope you all realise that you are my enablers - ha ha!   

[wendydarling]

Oh Rockieplace 

I'm so sorry your daughter has run up this huge debt and you are worried about how she will respond, ignore,  self harm.  As you know this isn't going to go away. The baliffs will come.  There maybe more debts and you say she has been paid until last month ... . 

How about calmly acknowledging you are sorry she is struggling with her finances (letter) and you are willing to help her work this through.  Listen to how she is feeling and validate ... .give her space to think. It's easy to pre-empt how we think they will respond, try keep a clear head. If she does not want to talk, ask her if she'd like to talk about it at a later time, keep the door open.

RP you are close and she trusts you.

I'm not sure if that helps you?

WDx

[Rockieplace]

Sorry to reply to my own post. I have had an idea. I am thinking that I will write to the agency recorded delivery explaining that a) my daughter has never lived at this address, which is true, and b) that she has been suffering a serious mental illness which has resulted in her being hospitalised for most of the last year. That would mean that they have it on file and will have to act accordingly.  I think they have to follow a special code of conduct in these circumstances from what I have read on the Internet about debt and mental illness.

Hi Wendy you have replied while I was typing the above. Thank you for your suggestion. I think I could do what you suggest AND write to the company maybe?

She does trust me but I'm afraid that I don't trust her reactions which are not at all rational where money is concerned. I've learnt from on here that I must treat her as a responsible adult and assume that she will behave accordingly so I think I will follow your advice and tell her about the letter in a calm and kindly way.

[wendydarling]

Yes, RP you'll need to contact them to stop them sending the baliffs to your door.

I had a look too and found this https://www.rethink.org/living-with-mental-illness/money-issues-benefits-employment/options-for-dealing-with-debt/write-offs says they can choose to write it off but don't have to ... .end game is it's recorded 'uncollectable' ... .end of the credit spending spree.  There is a helpline if she decides she wants your advice you might consider offering her the number ... .and yes you are right treat her as a responsible adult, underneath the disorder she is.

WDx

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Rockieplace]

Yes thank you for the link. Having looked at the letter more closely, the date of the loan agreement was actually while my d was under section and in hospital!  I wonder how it was arranged. Maybe that will count in her favour? Who knows? 

[Lollypop]

Hi RP

if the bailiffs turn up at your door, do NOT let them in. Preferably do not answer the door. This is not your debt. Please seek advice at the citizens advice,

Contact the debt collection agency and explain the situation. Under no circumstances are they to contact you again and make sure they understand that. Be firm and clear.

I took LBJ's advice and passed the letter onto our BPDs. It's his debt to do with as he sees fit. No fear, obligation or guilt. He's an adult. His debts are his problems, not ours.

The timing is simply awful for you RP and I truly feel for you. But if she's in a downward spiral there's going to be the havoc and crisis whirling around that caused it. Stay strong.

Please let us know how you get on.