Lesson learned: Always push for a court date to get stipulations done

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Found out the hard way yesterday that coming to an agreement, even via email, but not getting it into a court order/stipulation can cause headaches.  Had a Judicial Custody Conference (JCC) set in January, came to an agreement 2 days prior, so we pushed out the JCC date while we agreed to write up the stipulation.  Then the games began with BPDxw backing out, her lawyer claiming "hey, nothing is signed, so no deal" and now having to wait extra months to get this done.

Do *not* let your lawyer assume the other side will act in good faith and write up a stipulation in a timely manner.  Always use your court date to make sure the stipulation is filed in a timely manner.  Do not give up that leverage.  Even if both sides have been acting in good faith up to now, do not assume it will continue moving forward.  This is what happened to me as both I and my lawyer got lulled into a false sense of security.  Then the rug got pulled out from under us.

[HopefulDad]

Found out the hard way yesterday that coming to an agreement, even via email, but not getting it into a court order/stipulation can cause headaches.  Had a Judicial Custody Conference (JCC) set in January, came to an agreement 2 days prior, so we pushed out the JCC date while we agreed to write up the stipulation.  Then the games began with BPDxw backing out, her lawyer claiming "hey, nothing is signed, so no deal" and now having to wait extra months to get this done.

Do *not* let your lawyer assume the other side will act in good faith and write up a stipulation in a timely manner.  Always use your court date to make sure the stipulation is filed in a timely manner.  Do not give up that leverage.  Even if both sides have been acting in good faith up to now, do not assume it will continue moving forward.  This is what happened to me as both I and my lawyer got lulled into a false sense of security.  Then the rug got pulled out from under us.

[Nope]

That really stinks. The bright side about learning a lesson the hard way is that those are the lessons we learn best.

My DH's BPDex spent a year and a half dragging out even getting a parenting plan signed and didn't sign until after she had exhausted every possible continuance and court was the next day. In the meantime she didn't let him talk to or see the kids. Then when he was looking to go back to court to get more time and a more firm parenting plan she got a couple of continuances and then once in court brought up the mediation clause in the parenting plan (that his L totally forgot she even put in there) and then she dragged her feet through mediation adding another six months on to getting anything done. Now two years later the kids have lived with us for a year and a half and the BPDex was told back in February what dates she had to pick from for the two weeks DH is giving her for summer parenting time. He explained that camps get booked up and he needs to know what dates she wants so he can make plans. Her response was to send him a long rambling email stating that she'll need more time than he is giving her to figure out what dates she wants and that she wants to pick any dates she wants instead of the dates he gave her to choose from. Even though the court order gives her no specific summer parenting time except "as the parties agree". So what is DH doing? Not waiting. He's planning the kid's summer activities for the dates he didn't give her to choose from and waiting until the date he gave her to choose by to address anything about it with her again. After what the whole family went through while she dragged out court the boundary that she isn't allowed to hold up our lives is firmly in place. If she never learns anything else, she will learn that DH does what he says he is going to do.

[david]

Our custody order says that any agreement reached in an email is binding provided both parties agree in the email. I put it in our agreement because ex kept pulling the rug out under me. That helped a lot.

[ForeverDad]

Postulate:  I cannot reason with Ex.

Theorem:  I cannot expect Ex to be reasonable.

Postulate:  Ex always denies any agreements.

Theorem:  I can expect Ex to deny, sabotage or reinterpret to Ex's favor any agreements that are not ironclad and ordered.

I learned about postulates/axioms and theorems in Plane Geometry over 4 decades ago.  Though I was more or less a "B+" Student (more Bs than As and more As than Cs) I excelled in spelling, Spanish verb conjugation and Plane Geometry.  Of two classes of Freshmen and Sophomores, I as a Freshman led the PG classes, received the PG school medal that year and went to the state capitol to compete against the best from other schools, placing in the top third.  Clearly I was good with patterns, essential with Plane Geometry.  Now with my lessened "eyes wide shut" this is a pattern of pwBPD (and other acting-out PDs) we must take to heart in order to survive.

[HopefulDad]

Postulate:  I cannot reason with Ex.

Theorem:  I cannot expect Ex to be reasonable.

Postulate:  Ex always denies any agreements.

Theorem:  I can expect Ex to deny, sabotage or reinterpret to Ex's favor any agreements that are not ironclad and ordered.

I learned about postulates/axioms and theorems in Plane Geometry over 4 decades ago.  Though I was more or less a "B+" Student (more Bs than As and more As than Cs) I excelled in spelling, Spanish verb conjugation and Plane Geometry.  Of two classes of Freshmen and Sophomores, I as a Freshman led the PG classes, received the PG school medal that year and went to the state capitol to compete against the best from other schools, placing in the top third.  Clearly I was good with patterns, essential with Plane Geometry.  Now with my lessened "eyes wide shut" this is a pattern of pwBPD (and other acting-out PDs) we must take to heart in order to survive.

Actually, my problem was that she was actually reasonable and would follow agreements... .sometimes.  That's where I let my guard down.  I should have treated her with absolutes at least from a legal standpoint.

[ugghh]

You are not the first one to learn the lesson. 

When I went through my divorce, I always pushed to keep the court date/deadline.  Most judges don't get too upset when both Ls go up and say "we have a deal".  It makes the judges life easier.  For me we couldn't quite get it done, so the judge told the two attorneys go across the hall to the empty room and see if you can get it finished.  It was very productive hour or so.

It keeps the Ls feet to the fire to stay on your ex to make some concessions.  The lawyers have to see those judges over and over again.  They don't want a reputation of being difficult.

[scraps66]

Another lesson, yes, go to court if you absolutely need to.  Otherwise, don't.  You may hear of advice to file contempt at the drop of a hat and with every little issue.  My experience, specifically with contempt, but with other areas of the courthouse, it seems like many times I had more mistakes made and propagated by going to court than if I had just took some time to cool down, take a step back, and evaluate.  Most Ls like to go to court because there is billable dead time.  However, in many cases stipulations can be included into an Order provided both Ls can work together and agree.  You can try this with opposing counsel and if he continues to stonewall, then go to court and demand attorney fees based on the good faith efforts on your side made to NOT go to court.

[ForeverDad]

I kept complaining to my lawyer about all the obstructions and flaunting of the order my then-stbEx was doing.  My lawyer asked me, "Do you want a $5K divorce or a $30K divorce?"  It was early in the (23.5 month) case and he still thought the lower figure was possible.   His point was that I had to choose my battles, focusing on the important issues that made a lasting difference.

That said, we did file for Contempt of Court once or twice during the divorce.  Then my lawyer agreed to suspend the decision.  Why?  Strategy.  If we sought a decision at that time then later at the Trial it couldn't be used since it would have been considered addressed and resolved.  Well, at literally the last minute she agreed to settle, the Trial was averted and so the pending Contempts just went away.

However, filing Contempt of Court after the divorce is considered much more seriously, by then the court expects the emotions to have calmed and the conflict reduced.  For those we did seek a ruling.  Yes, at first they're considered like parking tickets with minimal impact, as LivednLearned often illustrates.  But eventually the court figures out there's a pattern that needs to be addressed.  We eventually look to be the targets and problem solvers while the Ex is seen as the obstructionist and the problem.

Our goal is to shorten the time it takes to get the court to address the reality rather than the standard expectations.  As HopefulDad wrote, we've got to hold all parties' feet to the fire and in divorce that means keeping the case moving along as fast as practical in court.