Making things easier--how did you break your conditioning?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Background:

I'm two years out of my r'ship with exUpwBPDgf. I initiated the last break. We often don't realise the degree of conditioning until after a relationship is over.


What was the conditioning? 



My ex 'conditioned' me to think about her almost all the time. Yes. The "constant alertness". The feeling like that house is going to burn down any second. Or like a giant tick draining your blood. Sometimes, you find yourself asleep in the same way as through bloodletting. I accepted the conditioning, like a monkey--with a giant tick attached to it. I should have walked when she mentioned she wanted to be burned with various implements. Oh so danger. Oh the fifty shades. But I thought S&M tendencies a green-flag! :P

How did she condition me?



(The usual pwBPD romantic-SO blah.)

How did I break the conditioning?



Simple things, including: heaps of validation, a pinch of boundaries and a commitment to effectiveness.

In keeping with the board's purpose, this is not about the current management of your given BP. It's not about finding out about how to dance merengue or cha-cha (if the BP is still in your life). It's more about what drew you in and kept you in. Being kept in is similar to being trapped. Being conditioned to being trapped by things like FOG is something that will keep you in. I want to trigger thoughts about what you learned about yourself that was keeping you trapped. What kept me trapped in the example above is pretty obvious, so I've started with an open-heart :P Using this thinking path, I learned some difficult lessons about me and relationships, and I actually went on to find out about ancient value systems to increase my understanding.

What were some specific ways you ladies and gentlemen broke your conditioning?

[gotbushels]

Background:

I'm two years out of my r'ship with exUpwBPDgf. I initiated the last break. We often don't realise the degree of conditioning until after a relationship is over.


What was the conditioning? 



My ex 'conditioned' me to think about her almost all the time. Yes. The "constant alertness". The feeling like that house is going to burn down any second. Or like a giant tick draining your blood. Sometimes, you find yourself asleep in the same way as through bloodletting. I accepted the conditioning, like a monkey--with a giant tick attached to it. I should have walked when she mentioned she wanted to be burned with various implements. Oh so danger. Oh the fifty shades. But I thought S&M tendencies a green-flag! :P

How did she condition me?



(The usual pwBPD romantic-SO blah.)

How did I break the conditioning?



Simple things, including: heaps of validation, a pinch of boundaries and a commitment to effectiveness.

In keeping with the board's purpose, this is not about the current management of your given BP. It's not about finding out about how to dance merengue or cha-cha (if the BP is still in your life). It's more about what drew you in and kept you in. Being kept in is similar to being trapped. Being conditioned to being trapped by things like FOG is something that will keep you in. I want to trigger thoughts about what you learned about yourself that was keeping you trapped. What kept me trapped in the example above is pretty obvious, so I've started with an open-heart :P Using this thinking path, I learned some difficult lessons about me and relationships, and I actually went on to find out about ancient value systems to increase my understanding.

What were some specific ways you ladies and gentlemen broke your conditioning?

[fromheeltoheal]

For me it was simple: the pain of staying became greater than the pain of leaving, so I left.

But as we know that was only the beginning, and as the fog cleared the predominant emotion was shock, like What the heck was I doing?  Why did I put up with all that crap?  And eventually, what can I learn from this?

And so began a journey of exploration and growth, which continues.  The biggest things were self-abandonment and a lack of self protection, both of which have gotten way better just by focusing on them and practicing.  I can't expect someone else to be compassionate to me if I'm not going to be compassionate with myself, and part of that compassion is removing disempowering people from my life, which includes folks with personality disorders.  And self-protection is a matter of setting and enforcing boundaries, part of which is realizing that some people will attempt to bust my boundaries just because, so the boundary with them needs to be set so far away from me that they're not in my life at all.  There's a trend forming here yes?  And then for the folks I do want in my life, it's a matter of expressing vulnerability and being open, and my experience is that will either make me closer to someone and they'll reciprocate, or it will make us farther apart, for whatever reason, doesn't matter as long as I'm being real.

And then naivete; I must not be naive.  I come from a family where my parents loved me, but nothing was ever, ever communicated, no emotional communication whatsoever, at least according to me, they may differ, but instead of any emotional openness I got sugar coating, downplaying, avoidance, and when you take that into the world you live in a place of extreme naivety, which has gotten me screwed more than a few times.  So no more of that.  Things are the way they are, if I think they should be different, fine, but don't ignore the way they actually are.  Hell, if I'd done that with my ex we never would have gotten beyond the second date.  It needed to happen the way it did though, there were lessons to be learned and teachers come in bizarre packages sometimes... .

[Sunfl0wer]

When you talk about this, what I think of is... .

I entered the relationship with an Identity.  However, over time, the way an ocean erodes at cliffs, so too did my identity erode to accommodate the actions upon it.  It eroded to the point, it seemed more like a distortion of a former self.  A regression of a sort to a time when I had less skills and acted out of greater ignorance.  I began to abandon the growth I had made over the years and allowed it to get diluted in the large ocean that was chipping away at my solid parts.

How did I break the conditioning?

I didn't exactly. 

I started to realize that there would soon be no more rocks or beach to sacrifice and freaked out.  I wondered how this had happened so slowly over time.  I began to want to preserve and protect what small beach I had left. (The thought of rebuilding back the beach felt impossible, so I settled for stopping loss)

As I protected the beach.  The ocean became consumed with anger to destroy. And attacked from all sides.  This freed me to float away like an island.

If I imagine what it would be like to try to maintain Myself during the relationship... .well I cannot.

I realize... .Over time... .That his construct... .His reality... .Was that I was not actually supposed to exist.  I was a tool for another purpose.  I served as a mirror for him to borrow for his own identity.  His interactions with me were to affirm who he wanted to be. 

"A good dad that can provide a step parent"

"A awesome man that can find a girl that loves him, post divorce, just as his exW found a man"

As time went on... .I was ceasing to exist.

Realizing that I was losing his love, I began to turn back to me for love and realized that I do somewhat love me... .  I began to try to love me and protect me again.

The conditioning could not penetrate good self love.

[gotbushels]

 

Very interesting guys. I'm rushing out but these posts from you guys, as well as working with nons who are trying to break from their pwBPD exs (Detaching board), has actually taught me a lot about identifying remarkable patterns in my own life. The good news is that there are a lot of lessons I can carry over between the patterns. I can use what I did in one problem-pattern to help with the other problem-pattern. Thank you! Hope your weeks go well.

[unicorn2014]

I just started breaking my conditioning in my current relationship.  The way I'm doing that is going through my photos and deleting. Another thing I'm doing is deleting notes and transcripts.

2 years out is a long time to still be affected by a relationship.

I did a divorce recovery workshop for 2 years after I ended my marriage and that's why I don't have to think about it anymore. Of course I ended my marriage a decade ago however I still have grief about that as my marriage involved a lot of community. My best man saw me as the sacrificial lamb. That was a long time ago and I was young.

I don't know if that matches your topic?

[gotbushels]

Well, I left it pretty open and I defined the idea as to “trigger thoughts about what you learned about yourself that was keeping you trapped.”

So yes, I can infer how old photos and transcripts might keep you trapped if you find yourself going back to them and lingering—and if that is troubling you or keeping your mind ‘trapped’ on the relationship you want to be away from. So sure unicorn:) How did that act help you release yourself from being trapped?

You mentioned, “I don't have to think about it anymore", when you mentioned your divorce. I'm sorry to hear about what happened, even though I know it was some time ago. I think that statement you made is a good position many people on the Detaching board would really like to have. What kinds of changes did the divorce recovery workshop suggest? What were some of the changes you took? Was there anything you did that you found effective in releasing from that relationship?

[unicorn2014]

Well, I left it pretty open and I defined the idea as to “trigger thoughts about what you learned about yourself that was keeping you trapped.”

So yes, I can infer how old photos and transcripts might keep you trapped if you find yourself going back to them and lingering—and if that is troubling you or keeping your mind ‘trapped’ on the relationship you want to be away from. So sure unicorn:) How did that act help you release yourself from being trapped?

I wasn't going back to the old photos and transcripts and lingering, I wanted them out of my phone so I didn't have to see them and so I could move forward. Does that make sense?

You mentioned, “I don't have to think about it anymore", when you mentioned your divorce. I'm sorry to hear about what happened, even though I know it was some time ago. I think that statement you made is a good position many people on the Detaching board would really like to have. What kinds of changes did the divorce recovery workshop suggest? What were some of the changes you took? Was there anything you did that you found effective in releasing from that relationship?

I continue to work on my relationship everyday because I have a child and I'm in Al-Anon. I mentioned the divorce recovery workshop because I think its really important to sew up the wound immediately. I've healed from the divorce, I still have to coparent but in this case because my ex's narcissistic I can only parallel parent with him however our daughter is not seeing him until her eye heals.

So to tie that back into your topic: I'm reading the book Its all your fault to help me deal with my ex's blaming ways. My ex is a HCP.

I had to get a lot of help to help me realize it wasn't my fault, help from 12 step programs, pastoral counseling, psychotherapy, its taken 10 years for me to finally believe its not my fault. My mother raised me to be codependent and she blamed me for my ex's relapse after I divorced him. I was dealing with not only being blamed by him, but my mother, and even people in our faith community. I'm still working on that one.

[gotbushels]

I wasn't going back to the old photos and transcripts and lingering, I wanted them out of my phone so I didn't have to see them and so I could move forward. Does that make sense?

I see. Yes it does make sense--sorry if I jumped the gun on that one unicorn. I was trying to draw the connection.

I continue to work on my relationship everyday because I have a child and I'm in Al-Anon. [... .]

I had to get a lot of help to help me realize it wasn't my fault, help from 12 step programs, pastoral counseling, psychotherapy, its taken 10 years for me to finally believe its not my fault. My mother raised me to be codependent and she blamed me for my ex's relapse after I divorced him. I was dealing with not only being blamed by him, but my mother, and even people in our faith community. I'm still working on that one.

Ah I see. Thank you for your contribution unicorn:) Dealing with blame from several directions can be frustrating over time. I respect your efforts to handle that. Those programmes really do sound like a lot of effort and I hope it has rewarded you.

[Cat Familiar]

I freed myself significantly from some of my old programming by a recent revelation. It dawned on me that in most of the relationships I've been in, all the men had one thing in common. I wanted someone who was sensitive so I chose men who showed me the "damaged little vulnerable boy child" part of their persona.

I then expected them to act like adults when we were in conflict, but instead, I was in relationship with hurt children who had no interest in seeing my side of the disagreement.

I think I'm starting to understand what "radical acceptance" is about. I cannot will my husband to grow up. I cannot fix his wounds. I cannot change his personality.

But I can accept that he may not be capable of behaving as a healthy adult at times. And I certainly have my own blind spots too. I wouldn't want someone to reject me for not being aware or noticing something that may be obvious to them.

So here it stands. I feel like I've finally passed through the anger, irritation, annoyance, grief, frustration--not that those emotions won't come up, but I understand what and who I'm dealing with and though it didn't match my dream image of what a relationship should be, my husband still has some wonderful qualities.

[waverider]

I broke my conditioning once I made the decision that when the cry wolf arouse that one day there really might be one, but that was still not my problem as I did not create the disbelief. This freed me of emotional blackmail.

Then I got on with life, and stopped trying to fix her.

Once I refound who I was, it made it easier for her to see what I stood for, and that I was consistent and had no intention of telling her how to life her life. This created a stability she could cope with and eliminated most of her defensiveness. Conflict is now a thing of the past.

Any 'enabling' that I may do now is done in full knowledge and free will, not under duress. More a case of I wont make your stuff harder if you dont make my stuff harder.

[doubleAries]

I really relate to the posts by SunflOwer and from heeltoheal!

How did I "break my conditioning"? Mostly (and it's ongoing of course) by not attributing all the conditioning to my ex. By understanding that the "conditioning" started a long, long time before him, and that I picked him because I knew somewhere inside me that he could dance the dance of my conditioning. I stopped having as many "insights" about HIM and had some epiphanies about myself.

I started understanding that boundaries are to protect myself and my values--not shape him into who I wanted him to be.

I started seeing who he actually was/is. I began to realize that I wasn't having a relationship with that person, but with someone I made up in my mind (which explains my outrage and indignation when he traversed outside those lines).

I also began to notice that it wasn't about whose fault this or that was, or who was to blame, so much as 2 unwell patterns were rubbing up against each other in a very uncool way. For a long time I was angry about how he played the victim--when I was so clearly the victim!   He obviously felt the same. Look, I am not saying this was all my fault or all his fault--but I was a lot more comfortable with my enabler/rescuer role than I was with his persecutor role. But truth is, we were both on that drama triangle--in a big way. That's why we picked each other to begin with.

So the important part is changing ME so I don't trade the old one in for a new one.

[Trog]

Breaking conditioning is super hard. I've just come back to this board after some months away and read my old posts, in one regard its amazing how much further on I am in my healing, Im not crying for my ex any more at any time, but my conditioning, is STILL there. I saw it plainly when I reached out to divorce her, I was laying out the crashmats, trying to be gentle, asking how she was after a year of NC and wishing her well and basically got a b___-slap, utterly disrespectful reply. My conditioning led me to write that, always looking not to hurt a person regardless of the blatant and constant hurt they have shown to me.

I'm learning more though about conditioning:

BPDs and the personality disordered go down one route - which is shutting off emotionally, acting out, demanding, being "stone cold" and unrepentant - Narcissistic often

Codepedents - or people who wind up dating the PDs - go down the route of negotiation, understanding, foregiveness, exception-making, excuse-making, covering-up, lying for, protecting and/or generally negotiating a world of abuse from parents/carers to make their life live-able. We also wind up with an inbuilt, self protection mechanism where the rule "No one really means to hurt me", "No one is truly bad" - it's a mistake or it's because they're hurt - is the reality for us, if we couldn't say that to ourselves, make these excuses for others hurting us, we wouldn't cope as well as we do.

So you have Person A - "I want to abuse you and make you feel you're responsible for it" meets Person B "I have a high tolerance for abuse and am willing to take the blame" - You have a comfortable, match made in heaven, that feels oh-so-homely and like "true love is meant to be" right?

This is why it hurts so much, this is why it felt so "right", this is why we feel so special tolerating all their crap when our friends and family can't understand why we would, we have special coping mechanisms for extra BS! *applauds*



How do I break that conditioning? The conditioning of constantly compromising myself, my wants and needs in order to take the "easy" road, the survival road, the road of least integrity. The problem with this road is it leads to spill overs everywhere, tolerance of all kinds of cr*p you really don't want in your life, not just sucky relationship but 30lbs overweight or unfit, or indulging in gossip or very easy to imagine, just not putting your highest needs first, not looking after yourself.

If I could learn to do one thing and I still CAN NOT DO IT, is set standards, boundaries, goals for myself and not allow things that break from that to distract me or ruin my life. Even if it means I lose support from friends, even if it means I lose my girlfriend, even if it means I'm alone, at least I could look myself in the mirror.

How do you live an integral life and break this conditioned pattern from childhood of negotiating on what you know is right and trying to make everything better for everyone else even if its hurting you?

I heard one trick which kind of works for a day until I forgot it which was to imagine the child in you and then to be that childs protector, of course I would never expose my child (or me as a child) to my ex, or overfeed it, or give it a cigarette or any of the things I do that are not truly in my interests. Are there any books or psychologists who deal directly with this, I feel this is the nut I need to crack to get my whole life and happiness back on track?

[waverider]

Conditioning is like being coearsed out of your own self protection. It does take rediscovering your own inner selfishness to have the strength to reverse this.

[Cat Familiar]

I broke my conditioning once I made the decision that when the cry wolf arouse that one day there really might be one, but that was still not my problem as I did not create the disbelief. This freed me of emotional blackmail.

Then I got on with life, and stopped trying to fix her.

I've been catching myself, overriding my instincts of trying to "help" him in ways that are undoubtedly invalidating. Last night when a plumber returned a phone call, I had to keep my mouth zipped when he was attempting to explain the issue. Not only was I appalled that he was so incompetent with his description, but then I saw how arrogant I was because I knew the exact terminology and would have been able to precisely describe the problem.  

I've also been stopping myself from jumping in to find things he's lost or to "fix" his conflicts with other people. Saves me a lot of time.  

I stopped having as many "insights" about HIM and had some epiphanies about myself.

I started seeing who he actually was/is. I began to realize that I wasn't having a relationship with that person, but with someone I made up in my mind (which explains my outrage and indignation when he traversed outside those lines).

Yes. I've spent so much time both here and in therapy kvetching about him. But that has been time well spent because I was so mystified by his behavior and his inexplicable reactions. It's been really helpful to see how universal some of these patterns are and to understand how my behavior can elicit behavior in him that I'd rather avoid. So lots of lessons learned.

Now, I'm shifting the focus to me and trying to utilize a concept I heard long ago: "healthy selfish". I've spent a lifetime second-guessing myself, trying to please others, analyzing my behavior for disappointing others and not being the person they wanted me to be. Now, I'm in the f* it phase. I'm learning to get acquainted with myself and asking myself what exactly do I want? That's not an easily answered question. I've known what I don't want, but historically it seemed "selfish" to ask for what I really wanted. (That FOO concept of being taught I was selfish for having wants and needs as a child has really hindered me and set me up to be the perfect patsy for PD types.)

[Trog]

I broke my conditioning once I made the decision that when the cry wolf arouse that one day there really might be one, but that was still not my problem as I did not create the disbelief. This freed me of emotional blackmail.

Then I got on with life, and stopped trying to fix her.

I've been catching myself, overriding my instincts of trying to "help" him in ways that are undoubtedly invalidating. Last night when a plumber returned a phone call, I had to keep my mouth zipped when he was attempting to explain the issue. Not only was I appalled that he was so incompetent with his description, but then I saw how arrogant I was because I knew the exact terminology and would have been able to precisely describe the problem.  

I've also been stopping myself from jumping in to find things he's lost or to "fix" his conflicts with other people. Saves me a lot of time.  

I stopped having as many "insights" about HIM and had some epiphanies about myself.

I started seeing who he actually was/is. I began to realize that I wasn't having a relationship with that person, but with someone I made up in my mind (which explains my outrage and indignation when he traversed outside those lines).

Yes. I've spent so much time both here and in therapy kvetching about him. But that has been time well spent because I was so mystified by his behavior and his inexplicable reactions. It's been really helpful to see how universal some of these patterns are and to understand how my behavior can elicit behavior in him that I'd rather avoid. So lots of lessons learned.

Now, I'm shifting the focus to me and trying to utilize a concept I heard long ago: "healthy selfish". I've spent a lifetime second-guessing myself, trying to please others, analyzing my behavior for disappointing others and not being the person they wanted me to be. Now, I'm in the f* it phase. I'm learning to get acquainted with myself and asking myself what exactly do I want? That's not an easily answered question. I've known what I don't want, but historically it seemed "selfish" to ask for what I really wanted. (That FOO concept of being taught I was selfish for having wants and needs as a child has really hindered me and set me up to be the perfect patsy for PD types.)

Healthy selfish? That's the key. My people pleasing is beyond ridiculous, I live out my whole life in order not to be an inconvenience (and I mean tiny things like not taking up too much time with a Waiter, making sure I had everything ready, second guessing everyones wants and sidelining my own), to shine in my job by working triple time and making fortunes for people who lived off my hard work, that I attracted the ultimate BPD/NPD counterweight is no surprise!

I'm going to break that conditioning of people pleasing starting now.

[Narkiss]

So interesting -- and true -- Double Aries. My BPD person didn't condition me, but he slid right into the space that had been created years ago. I have to think about that more -- and shutting that space down. It's always been there. In past relationships, though, other guys have found it (to continue the metaphor), but it didn't resonate for them and the relationship ended without doing such tremendous damage in my life. This time -- really the first time -- I fell in love with someone who took what I could give and give and give.

[gotbushels]

I'm going to break that conditioning of people pleasing starting now.

This somehow reminds me of another thread:

Or, the role comes from vowing not to be like the dysfunctional parent, and going to an opposite role that may be more functional but is still limited. 

Trog perhaps you would be better served by not a complete breakage of this "people pleasing", but an adjustment toward what is more accurate and comfortable for you. That way, you aren't limiting yourself to the benefits of pleasing people--and simultaneously, you're going to be less likely to have the problem of people ignoring your boundaries?

[waverider]

I'm going to break that conditioning of people pleasing starting now.

This somehow reminds me of another thread:

Or, the role comes from vowing not to be like the dysfunctional parent, and going to an opposite role that may be more functional but is still limited. 

Trog perhaps you would be better served by not a complete breakage of this "people pleasing", but an adjustment toward what is more accurate and comfortable for you. That way, you aren't limiting yourself to the benefits of pleasing people--and simultaneously, you're going to be less likely to have the problem of people ignoring your boundaries?

When changing any trait you have to make sure you dont swing too far the other way and doing the opposite out of principle rather than what is balanced."Readjust" is better than "break"

[Grey Kitty]

Trog perhaps you would be better served by not a complete breakage of this "people pleasing", but an adjustment toward what is more accurate and comfortable for you. That way, you aren't limiting yourself to the benefits of pleasing people--and simultaneously, you're going to be less likely to have the problem of people ignoring your boundaries?

When changing any trait you have to make sure you dont swing too far the other way and doing the opposite out of principle rather than what is balanced."Readjust" is better than "break"

Yes indeed!

I think when you have an unhealthy pattern like people pleasing, it has two components:

1. A very good, valid, healthy, and admirable characteristic/motivation. In this case, you genuinely want people around you to be happy.

(Don't try to break, change, or deny this!)

2. An unhealthy way of implementing it where you treat yourself very badly... .in the name of your valid goal.

(This is the part to change!)