how do you do it?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Sister recently told me that she is off sick from work with depression and on anti-dpressants with suicidal thoughts but I think the problem goes back much further and she may have BPD.

I feel like I can tick all the boxes re walking on eggshells, saying only what she wants to hear, the feeling of being alice going down the rabbit hole, the black and white life and total denial of things that she'd said the last time we spoke, the no-one in the family understands me or ever does anything for me, exaggerations etc. although she can be a lot of fun to be with and quite charismatic, her live is a hand-to-mouth chaos when she is very intelligent and qualified as a... .social worker!

In recent months she has had a lot of stress from work and potential money worries and has recently moved in with a man for the third time (who has apparently slashed her car tyres in the past) who she is once again accusing of mental abuse.She has spoken to two counsellors linked to the depression about him and they have told her that she should leave him... which is what I've been saying but she's been putting up resistance because of the problems of getting her stuff out... .there aren't any, I've given her money,as usual, to help her out.

She says that she is being held "hostage" by him, but she can move back to the flat she lived in before today and never see him again  as it's taken her three months to move,she's kept the flat on and keeps going back there.He doesn't know she's off sick and thinks she's at work, he just knows that their relationship has soured.She said that he was going to cook dinner tonight and wonders what evil intention he had got, I said perhaps he was just being polite to a guest in his house.I just want her to leave to be 100% sure she is safe from everyone but herself.

I think that she got back together with him because she was frightened of being unable to pay her rent and wanted a roof over her head but told herself she was in love and when he started backing off and going quiet she turned completely against him, although she always seems to pick men with their own issues!

I'm trying to be supportive and I'm trying to be empathetic but I can't bad-mouth a man I don't know annd am trying to focus on practical things, but I can tell by her voice that she feels this isn't supportive enough.

I can't appease/lie anymore and I feel like I've got my own "little boy who cried wolf" for a sister.

How do you give your BPD relative the help that they need and not loose yourself ? Sorry to go on a long time and not be very clear but I'm finding it hard to deal with.

[wantyousafe]

Sister recently told me that she is off sick from work with depression and on anti-dpressants with suicidal thoughts but I think the problem goes back much further and she may have BPD.

I feel like I can tick all the boxes re walking on eggshells, saying only what she wants to hear, the feeling of being alice going down the rabbit hole, the black and white life and total denial of things that she'd said the last time we spoke, the no-one in the family understands me or ever does anything for me, exaggerations etc. although she can be a lot of fun to be with and quite charismatic, her live is a hand-to-mouth chaos when she is very intelligent and qualified as a... .social worker!

In recent months she has had a lot of stress from work and potential money worries and has recently moved in with a man for the third time (who has apparently slashed her car tyres in the past) who she is once again accusing of mental abuse.She has spoken to two counsellors linked to the depression about him and they have told her that she should leave him... which is what I've been saying but she's been putting up resistance because of the problems of getting her stuff out... .there aren't any, I've given her money,as usual, to help her out.

She says that she is being held "hostage" by him, but she can move back to the flat she lived in before today and never see him again  as it's taken her three months to move,she's kept the flat on and keeps going back there.He doesn't know she's off sick and thinks she's at work, he just knows that their relationship has soured.She said that he was going to cook dinner tonight and wonders what evil intention he had got, I said perhaps he was just being polite to a guest in his house.I just want her to leave to be 100% sure she is safe from everyone but herself.

I think that she got back together with him because she was frightened of being unable to pay her rent and wanted a roof over her head but told herself she was in love and when he started backing off and going quiet she turned completely against him, although she always seems to pick men with their own issues!

I'm trying to be supportive and I'm trying to be empathetic but I can't bad-mouth a man I don't know annd am trying to focus on practical things, but I can tell by her voice that she feels this isn't supportive enough.

I can't appease/lie anymore and I feel like I've got my own "little boy who cried wolf" for a sister.

How do you give your BPD relative the help that they need and not loose yourself ? Sorry to go on a long time and not be very clear but I'm finding it hard to deal with.

[busybee1116]

I had this nice long response typed out and it got deleted!

I try to validate the feelings, even if I'm not sure/believe what she is saying about the event is true.

That sounds tough.

I can imagine that was scary.

You seem angry.

You sound lonely.

I'd feel sad if that happened to me, too.

I also try to be gently supportive/inquisitive without swooping in.

Can I meet you for tea? Might be good to get out of the house.

You sound afraid, can you tell me more about that?

What's the best part about staying? The worst part about leaving?

Have you thought about getting help?

What solutions can you think of for this situation?

I have the hardest time with chronic complainers, BPD or not, who can change/fix a situation, but won't and continue to whine and complain about it. I've learned with my uBPDm that it's hard to set boundaries around a conversational topic ("you aren't going to do anything about this so please stop talking about it!" ), so I tend to switch subjects instead. But how do you do that when the subject is "I'm not safe" and the person who cries wolf may actually have a real problem this time? You might just need to call her bluff and/or set a boundary. Something like... ."You've said you aren't safe, that he's mentally abused you, that 2 counselors have told you to leave. I've listened carefully and I'm very concerned about you. If what you are saying is true, I'll help you pack and move, I will drive you to a women's shelter, I will take you to the police to file a report. If it's not as serious as you've said, please tell me now so I can sleep at night!"

[wantyousafe]

Many thanks for reply... just feeling a bit emotionally tired as I sometimes feel surrounded by needy people while I'm going through the joys of menopause and hrt made me really ill!

My eldest sister used to be supportive but now she's withdrawn to cope with a husband with Parkinson's and dementia,in a nursing home,thank goodness.

My next eldest sister is in the nursing home next door to him:schizophrenia,diabetes and a family history of strokes not being a good combination!

And I have to be a bit careful with my husband as his widowed mother gave him hell when he started to see me and threatened suicide.we could only be together after her death but it's left him very vulnerable.another BPD?

I also feel desperately sorry for the children of my two sisters as I can now see the damage passing down to them and feel like I should apologise.

[Kwamina]

Hi wantyousafe

Welcome to bpdfamily  There's a lot going on with your sister and I can understand why you would find this difficult to deal with.

In spie of everything, she's still your sister and it is clear that you care about her very much. Sometimes the best we can do is show our loved ones that we care about them, without actually taking care of them. You cannot change your sister if she does not want to change herself.

I think busybee1116 has given you some great practical advice about validation. When validating, it is important to only validate the valid and not the invalid. I've selected some parts from our article about validation that you might find helpful:

Let's first look at the importance of being true and authentic to ourselves. If we can't be true and authentic, we are sacrificing ourselves for the benefit of another, and we are most likely enabling another person's dysfunction. This helps no one.

For these reasons, validation is never about lying, it is not about being ruled by the emotions of others, and it is not letting people "walk all over us". We never want to validate the “invalid”.

Validating someone's thoughts, feelings, or beliefs does not necessarily mean we agree, overall, with what they are thinking, or feeling, or with their behavior.

So, the first thing to learn in validating others is to be able to identify something to validate in a "sea" of conflict that is both valid and important to the other person.

... .

Finding a validation target and mirroring it back from the other person's perspective (empathizing) is the crux of effective validating. There are two critical steps here. Finding the target. Empathizing with the other person.

An ideal target is one that is close to the other person's emotional epicenter.  It could be as simple as validating how the other person feels.  It could be mirroring back the other person's rationale of how they are seeing things and why they feel the way the way they do. It could be picking up on secondary elements what they're experiencing which are true, and confirming that.  

Empathizing with the person when validating the validation target is extremely important. There is little empathy in saying “I'm sorry if not having the car tonight makes you feel bad”. It's much more empathetic to say "Wow, after telling your friends that you would drive everyone to the movie tonight, I can really understand how embarrassing not having the car is".

... .

Normalizing: It helps to communicate that others would have the same response, where we can authentically say this. When we normalize what people are feeling we find a way to communicate that the experience is being human, that anyone in the same situation would feel the same way.  We avoid shaming or giving the message of being defective. This is powerful. Of course, there are things you shouldn't normalize, such as suicidal behavior. Don't normalize behavior that is not normal.

[wantyousafe]

thanks for the info. on validating; i'm going to try.

reading your guides, the problem with me is that i've become a rescuer who has definitely "enabled" family members to perpetuate behaviours instead of learn to change themselves.

i tried to back off and the next thing,she's found her own way out of money problems by moving in with a potentially abusive man.ouch!

[Kwamina]

thanks for the info. on validating; i'm going to try.

reading your guides, the problem with me is that i've become a rescuer who has definitely "enabled" family members to perpetuate behaviours instead of learn to change themselves.

i tried to back off and the next thing,she's found her own way out of money problems by moving in with a potentially abusive man.ouch!

Ouch indeed!  Do you perhaps feel guilty for trying to back off considering the relationship she is now in? What did your sister say to you when you tried to back off?

Even if she has BPD, she is still an adult and responsible for her own decisions. Yet I do realize that seeing and knowing what's going on with her isn't easy. It isn't your fault though that your sister chooses to put herself in this position.

To help you find the right balance between caring and rescuing, I encourage you to also take a look at the so-called 'Caring Triangle / Winning Triangle':

In 1990, Acey Choy M.Ed., PTSTA, introduced the Winning Triangle in the Transactional Analysis Journal as the antithesis of the Karpman Triangle. Her work has been heralded by Dr. Karpman as "excellent". Choy contrasts the unhealthy dynamics of each role of the Karpman triangle with healthy dynamics. Fjelstad, in her book, Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist, offers a similar model.

Assert rather than persecute. Instead of the actions of the persecutor,  who blames and punishes - give up trying to force or manipulate others to do what you want. Take on the new behaviors of "doing " and "asserting ". Ask for what you want. Say no for what you don't want. Give constructive feedback. Initiate negotiations. Take positive action.

Be vulnerable, but not a victim. "Victims " often feel overwhelmed, too defeated to solve their problems and emotions. They look to someone else to do it for them. Instead of the victim  role you need to be emotionally mature (vulnerable, not needy), accept the situation you are in and take responsibility to problem solve and function in a more healthy and happy way. Put real thought into what you want and how to get it, and take action to make it happen.

Be caring, but don't overstep [as in rescue]. We do not want to let our fears, obligation and guilt to control us or allow us to be manipulated into taking care of another person when it really isn't healthy to do so. Instead of being the rescuer  and doing the thinking, taking the lead, doing more than our share, doing more than is asked of us -  simply be a supportive, empathetic listener and provide reflection, coaching, and assistance if the person asks and is taking the lead themselves. It is important to recognize the other person as an equal (not one-down) and give the other person the respect of letting them take care of themselves, solve their own problems, and deal with their feelings as they choose. Remember, the rescuer  has the most pivotal position on the drama triangle - you are in the strongest position, at least initially, to redirect the dynamic into healthy territory.

Once we know better we do better. None of us are born with the knowledge and skills required to deal with such a complex disorder as BPD. That's why I'm glad you are reaching out here for support and advice

[wantyousafe]

hello again;

a few years ago my sister moved a hundred miles away ,partly to get away from a man who was stalking her, but she told her family nothing at the time,so we could not help her!

i was the one who always kept in touch with her and on the rare occasion she phoned me the bottom line was always "how much money now"?

about 12 months ago this happened again when i was in a bit of a dark place and i said that her behaviour wasn't helping (true,but i didn't suspect BPD)... i was trying to make her act responsibly and gave her extra money to set up a savings account.fat chance now i've read this website.

to be fair, her spending hasn't been too ott but her choice of employment has left her vulnerable.

anyway, before xmas i started hrt and it backlashed really scarily... and she got worried for me. her answer was not to ask me for help but to take up with this man again... she kept it quiet because she knew we'd all been horified and led us to believe that she was in a relationship with another,nicer man.she's highly intelligent and very attractive to men but picks ones who are a bit lonely and vulnerable and not up to her intellect which she knows how to use verbally. .

anyway, i'm now trying to help her with money,offers of help to move and contacting women's refuges but i could hear that he's lovely and they've made up next week and then she'll talk as though i'm the daft one.

am going to contact her every few days to make sure she's still on the planet but she's going to have to make the decisions.

she doesn't want her children to know what's going on and that feels more of a burden too!

[busybee1116]

Have you heard of medium chill? Changed my life! It's another way to respond instead of react. Or not respond!

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=114204.0

[wantyousafe]

Thanks for the info... I think I've been trying to medium chill but will have to be more subtle!

Sometimes I probably look like a startled guppy while I'm trying to work out  my response to one of the flights of fancy.

I think that she knows that she can't fool me anymore and now my main role is as the go_to girl when she needs a bail out.it's a bit sad because we have had some good times together but at least I can keep her a bit safe if her actions get her into a mess... financially anyway.

My eldest sister tells me not to worry as she has actually got a strong sense of survival but the suicide rate in BPD is high isn't  it.

[wantyousafe]

P.s; posting from u.k. hence strange times on posts.

Very glad I found this forum,I'm feeling much calmer now.cheers.