WOW I left my wife

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

So today i left my BPDw of 15yrs, and 3 kids (12/9/5). it was the most difficult thing I think I've ever done - and it doesn't feel real yet.

It took me all weekend! I had planned to talk on Thursday night. But my biggest failure was I didn't plan for her to object to me leaving (of COURSE she was going to object - there was NO WAY she was going to say "sure - leaving is a good choice" - but I had failed to plan for that... .). So I talked, then backed down when she told me how my plan would affect her. On Sat arvo I raised the conversation again - asking her to tell me where i was and what I wanted/needed in the relationship. She blamed all the problems on me of course. Then today (monday) I raised it again - where she told me that the life I wanted was a fantasy, and that NO-ONE with kids and jobs has what i want. When she was talking I *almost* believed her - there was much truth in what she was saying. The only thing that saved me was the knowledge that if I didn't leave, if I backed down, then she would have that power over me always.

So i left. Immediately I felt remorse, guilt, unsure. Was this the biggest mistake i'd made? I sat in a park for 2hrs thinking about the conversation, evaluating every point she made and pulling it apart. And in the end, I came to realise that nothing she said was true.

But I still feel like sh1t. I still have no idea what the next few weeks, months or years of life will look like. I want to see my kids, I want to care for and support my wife (I still love her as a deep friend), and i want to live. How will that happen?

[ArleighBurke]

So today i left my BPDw of 15yrs, and 3 kids (12/9/5). it was the most difficult thing I think I've ever done - and it doesn't feel real yet.

It took me all weekend! I had planned to talk on Thursday night. But my biggest failure was I didn't plan for her to object to me leaving (of COURSE she was going to object - there was NO WAY she was going to say "sure - leaving is a good choice" - but I had failed to plan for that... .). So I talked, then backed down when she told me how my plan would affect her. On Sat arvo I raised the conversation again - asking her to tell me where i was and what I wanted/needed in the relationship. She blamed all the problems on me of course. Then today (monday) I raised it again - where she told me that the life I wanted was a fantasy, and that NO-ONE with kids and jobs has what i want. When she was talking I *almost* believed her - there was much truth in what she was saying. The only thing that saved me was the knowledge that if I didn't leave, if I backed down, then she would have that power over me always.

So i left. Immediately I felt remorse, guilt, unsure. Was this the biggest mistake i'd made? I sat in a park for 2hrs thinking about the conversation, evaluating every point she made and pulling it apart. And in the end, I came to realise that nothing she said was true.

But I still feel like sh1t. I still have no idea what the next few weeks, months or years of life will look like. I want to see my kids, I want to care for and support my wife (I still love her as a deep friend), and i want to live. How will that happen?

[Turkish]

This is a monumental decision, and it seems to have been a long time coming, given that you've been strugggling. Where are you staying now, and has there been talk about the kids? Or too soon?

[LonelyChild]

... .

As someone who left a BPD SO, I can tell you that you made the right decision. You need to start over from zero.

You say that you want to care for and support your wife. Don't. This alone means that you're giving her power over you. She might be troubled - but it's HER troubles, not yours. She's a grown woman and she needs to care for herself. You need to make sure YOU are well off, and that's that. That's how life works, despite you being taught otherwise (most likely by your mother) during early childhood.

Today - my uBPDxgf calls me now and then and cries over issues. I usually try to listen for a while, but it usually ends up with her pushing her problems onto me or ask me to solve them for her, at which point I bluntly tell her "hey, it's no my problem that you can't transport furniture you want to buy to your place" or "it's not my problem you can't afford something you want really bad." And I honestly haven't felt this good in years. My life is great. I work, study, go to the gym, read a lot, take care of myself and my home, and people really like being around me. I don't need someone to take a dump on me every single day, telling me how worthless I am (explicitly or implicitly). Life is great.

Abandon that crap my friend, you deserve better. And if she thinks she deserves to have a better life (in regards to all her problems), it's up to HER to take care of that, not you.

[byfaith]

ArleighBurke,

I have wondered what it would be like making this same decision. I have imagined myself feeling EXACTLY how you are feeling right now.

The only thing that saved me was the knowledge that if I didn't leave, if I backed down, then she would have that power over me always.

You know what you need. From other replies you make on other posts you seem to have a similar issue that I have with my wife regarding sexual intimacy. Is that a big part of your decision to leave? Knowing it will never be normal?

I know, sometimes I feel like I let my wife have a certain power over me just to keep an amount of outward "peace" but on the inside I am struggling.

If you know in your heart you have done everything you can (which I am sure you have) to make your relationship work. Just hang in there, I know that sounds cliche.

I look back at how my ex wife left me. I called her one day when I was at work and she just told me she was leaving me. When I got home that day her stuff was already gone. I knew we were having some issues but it shocked me. Looking back though if she had not made that decision to do something that drastic we may still be married and miserable. In her case she was cheating on me and I didn't know it and then come to find out she said she never really was in love with me. I am glad now she is out of my life.

I hope things work out for you.

[Grey Kitty]

  This is a really tough choice, and it won't feel simple or easy, no matter what you do or how you do it.

Keep us updated on how things are going.

[empathic]

Don't want to intrude on your thread, but I've come to the same conclusion, and we're separating after 11 years married. I have been thinking about it for a long time of course, and this morning it was the final straw when my wife started an argument. I told her I have decided for real this time.

She panicked and wanted to tell the kids immediately (10 and 12), and did so. Not the best choice in my opinion, but there's no real turning back now I think. Might write more about this later (in another thread).

[ArleighBurke]

It's certainly the hardest thing. There was no big fight, or adultry, or anything that exploded to make the trigger. It was just "time".

I feel so conflicted about it. Perhaps there was more I could have done? Perhaps the life I want *is* unrealistic?Perhaps I *AM* condemning the kids to a horrible split home? She never physically abused me, and this wasn't her fault. Perhaps I could have just "held out" until the kids were older? I know how much I've hurt her, and I feel guilt. She's also got the 3 kids as a single mum. It's only been 1 day so we havn't worked out "visiting arrangements" yet (the kids think I'm on a work trip for a week. I did offer that SHE leave and I stay with the kids but I knew she'd never go for that). I'm not sure how it'll work out. I want to sneak into the home when she's not there and help her manage - vacuum, cook her dinner, washing.

Yet I also feel free. And excited! I can't wait to explore the world again - to choose what to do. To enjoy life.

And I'm also confused. Within hours of leaving I was on RSVP - "just looking". The thought of dating is extremely aluring and I don't know why. I'm pretty sure it's not for sex - perhaps excitement? Or connection? But it's too soon surely.

I don't know if I've made the right choice or not. But i know I cannot go back. She will never feel the same about me, or trust me, ever again. If I go back, she will always hold back, always have an excuse to feel distant, always have an excuse to blame me for anything bad in the relationship. For better or worse, this is the road I am now on.

[empathic]

It certainly is hard. I'm not sure there is more you could have done though - you did what you could at the time.

I think it will work out.

The freedom is certainly new and exciting for me also, although I know there are lots of steps ahead of me before I can really enjoy it.

[formflier]

 But i know I cannot go back. She will never feel the same about me, or trust me, ever again. If I go back, she will always hold back, always have an excuse to feel distant, always have an excuse to blame me for anything bad in the relationship. For better or worse, this is the road I am now on.

Is it a good thing, or a bad thing that she will never feel the same about you?  

Can I be so bold as to interpret what I am hearing?  

What I am hearing is that you are NOT ever going back to THAT marriage that you left.  That is a choice.  None of us will judge you for that.  In fact I applaud you for taking action about something you have clearly thought about for a while.         It is obvious this was a hard thing for you to do.

What to do about the conflicted feelings?  I want to point you back to choices again.

Honor your choice to leave THAT marriage.  Take some time (now that you have space) to think about your wife.  Is there a marriage with her that you see working FOR YOU?  Is that something you are willing to explore if she is willing?

If not, you continue on your path.

If so, then give her the choice, (and space and time to process and make a choice).  This could turn into a TS if BOTH parties want it.

The power of choices is HUGE.  If you make your choice and she makes hers, then I think you will have a much better time letting go of the questions, "could I have done more?"  etc etc.

At the start of two summers ago, I reported my wife to CPS for spankings that were out of control.  I knew that she would NEVER EVER look at me (feel about me) the same way.  But I made a choice.  Nothing was forced on me, even though I would rather have not had to make the choice.  

We were apart for many months and then got back together.  

 

I hope this helps.  Last bit of advice.  :)on't worry about sneaking in and "helping her vacuum".  Focus on self care!

FF

[Lucky Jim]

Hey ArleighBurke,  I admire your courage.  Six years ago, I left my BPDxW after 13 years of marriage, with two kids.  I never considered going back.  It felt so good to be free from abuse and daily confrontations.  I enjoyed regaining peace and sanity in my life.  For a long time, I felt like sh*t, but it was better to be in my own pain than be in hers.  Had I stayed, I would probably be dead.  I know that sounds dramatic, but I ran myself into the ground emotionally, physically and financially in my marriage to a pwBPD.  I was worn to a pulp!  Lost myself for a while there.  Not fun.  Yet I can confirm that leaving has led to greater happiness for me.  In my view, you are on the right path.

LuckyJim

[LilMe]

Wow, this must be hard, ArleighBurke!  But it sounds like it is the right thing for you at this time.

I would encourage you to spend some time healing and working on yourself before you even think about dating.  My stbxBPD came after me when I was fresh out of a marriage and not even thinking about dating.  But he came on so strong and seemed like a dream come true.  It was not.  You are vulnerable and needy and perfect bait for a PD person.  I would hate to see you back here in a few years with a story like mine.  :'(

Be strong and keep posting here for support.  If you are truly moving on, the detaching board is a great place for support in your decision to break away.

[formflier]

 

I second that about holding off on dating.

Or,

If you are going to date, be very open about where you are and that you are looking for casual stuff right now.

Still      in your compromised position you could be looking for casual stuff and "find" something you believe is more serious and ignore   because of your compromised state.

Rescue yourself, don't let anyone else pull you out of this.  You will be much stronger for it.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Focus now on being civil/reasonable with your wife and getting to spend time with your kids.

You may need to look at legal options for getting shared custody... .do consider posting your situation on the Legal board here for advice, and consulting with a lawyer. I'm sure you don't want to get into a legal battle with your wife, but knowing where you stand is critical for you if it does come to that.

It is fine to think about dating... .but you aren't in a position stable enough to be much of a catch today. At best you are ready for casual dating or encounters, if you want that. Still, anybody who would *WANT* to get involved with a guy who just moved out of the house with his kids and his abusive wife a week ago ... .well ... .lets just say that the hypothetical woman who would think this is a good idea too messed up to be a good candidate for any kind of relationship!

Actually the most important thing to focus on is taking care of yourself!

Start with making your apartment a safe and friendly place for you... .and by making sure your car, phone, and other necessities are in order... .and making sure you are eating well, sleeping well, getting some exercise, and staying in contact with what supportive friends and family you have.

[byfaith]

I would encourage you to spend some time healing and working on yourself before you even think about dating.  My stbxBPD came after me when I was fresh out of a marriage and not even thinking about dating.  But he came on so strong and seemed like a dream come true.  It was not.  You are vulnerable and needy and perfect bait for a PD person.  I would hate to see you back here in a few years with a story like mine.  :'(

this would be the advice I would give. I made this mistake. I thought I knew where my head was. I remember having that feeling of being free but I did not take time to figure things out after my wife left me.

just be careful

[ArleighBurke]

Thanks all.

I snuck into the family home today and cooked a dinner for the wife and kids (left it in the fridge), and did the dishes. I don't want her to think I've "dumped" her with all the responsibility and i get to have this fantastic single life.

She txt'd me "thanks for making my day a little easier. i miss you."

... .and now I feel sh!t again! I just want to crawl into bed and spend the rest of the day/night there. I know I've hurt her and I'm still not sure I did the right thing.

I also realised today that I havn't actually made the commitment to leave for good. (I was thinking about if I dated then that would actually be an affair, and I felt bad about that). But I appriciate what FormFlier said: that although I may go back to her, it will be a different marraige. I hadn't though of it like that. But I don't know how I'll ever be able to make that choice to go back. I'm sure my wife will promise everything, and I'll be in the same position in 12 months time with nothing changed.

I do feel I'm in a good place physically and emotionally. I had my breakdown 3 yrs ago, and have worked quite hard since then to become emotionally strong and lose my dependency. 

[Turkish]

Why do you say that you hurt her? You did a nice thing, and she responded kindly.

[ArleighBurke]

I hurt her by leaving her and moving out.

[empathic]

... .and now I feel sh!t again! I just want to crawl into bed and spend the rest of the day/night there. I know I've hurt her and I'm still not sure I did the right thing.

I also realised today that I havn't actually made the commitment to leave for good. (I was thinking about if I dated then that would actually be an affair, and I felt bad about that). But I appriciate what FormFlier said: that although I may go back to her, it will be a different marraige. I hadn't though of it like that. But I don't know how I'll ever be able to make that choice to go back. I'm sure my wife will promise everything, and I'll be in the same position in 12 months time with nothing changed.

I do feel I'm in a good place physically and emotionally. I had my breakdown 3 yrs ago, and have worked quite hard since then to become emotionally strong and lose my dependency. 

I know exactly how you feel. At home yesterday I heard her talk to her mother and a friend on the phone, crying, and it makes me feel like an absolutely horrible person. The knee jerk response is to go back to the way things were and sacrifice my own happiness - but I'm trying hard not to this time. She knows exactly how to play on my guilt.

It's also interesting how my problems (feeling unappreciated, like a doormat, mentally exhausted after all this time), and wanting to do something about it -

are now turned into all about her and her problems (she can't live alone, she can't live without the kids, she's depressed etc etc)

[formflier]

I hurt her by leaving her and moving out.

You did something for yourself that you have been thinking about for a while.

Your wife may have bad feelings about it.  Those feelings are not your "fault".

She is responsible for handling her feelings, you are responsible for handling yours. 

It's one thing to have empathy for what your wife may be feeling, it's another to take responsibility for anothers feelings.

Do you think you are feeling empathy, or taking responsibility?

FF

[Notwendy]

I have some thoughts about this, not advice, but ideas from reading and observing friends go through this process. Since I am female, the friends are female. I don't know their partner's sides of the story.


The one thing that stood out for me in all I have read about marriages is that we match our partner. That we attract certain people who match us in emotional ways - some of which we are not even aware of. Leaving one partner without processing/emotional growth is likely to result in choosing someone with whom we play out our issues.

As to dating/affairs- starting a relationship while being in another one/still emotionally tied up is likely to be problematic because we have not dealt with the issues in ourselves that matched the original problem. Rebound relationships can be problematic because the person who is rebounding is not emotionally available and is prone to seeking sex/relationship as a form of comfort. This could be a problem for both- one partner isn't available to the other, and also the hurting partner needs to learn to self soothe, not use sex, or co-dependency for comfort.

I recall thinking I read something about taking a 2 year break between relationships. I would imagine that would vary some.

So, of my friends group. One of them is I think on husband #4. Each time, she says this is it, this is the man of my dreams. When one H leaves, or they break up, she soon "falls in love" again.

I have a couple of friends whose husbands left them for another woman they were cheating with. These friends were devastated. They went through a period of grief, counseling. They focused on raising the kids, getting the kids into T and went to T themselves. They quite literally rebuilt their lives again without their H's. Then, years later, they would meet a man and proceed slowly to a committed relationship.

I have a friend who reconciled with her H. They were at the point of hiring lawyers. With extensive counseling for both of them, they have rebuilt their marriage.

( I have friends who have stayed married too - but these are the ones who I know have dealt with separation)

My conclusion from reading and watching my friends is that anything can happen, but to have something different takes time and emotional work.

Also co-dependency is an addiction, just like a drug. The urge to help others is to relieve ourselves of our own bad feelings. So, the sneaking into the house to clean up and cook- was this act out of FOG? Yes, it was kind, but you felt bad afterwards. Something to think about.

Yeah, dating websites look good. You're human. But perhaps it is wise to beware of what attracts you at this moment. Time, emotional work, counseling, seems to me to be the path to something different no matter with whom you are with.

[Fian]

I also realised today that I havn't actually made the commitment to leave for good. (I was thinking about if I dated then that would actually be an affair, and I felt bad about that). But I appriciate what FormFlier said: that although I may go back to her, it will be a different marraige. I hadn't though of it like that. But I don't know how I'll ever be able to make that choice to go back. I'm sure my wife will promise everything, and I'll be in the same position in 12 months time with nothing changed.

Are there concrete actions that she could promise to take (and then perform) that would show a genuine change?  What would that be?

[formflier]

Are there concrete actions that she could promise to take (and then perform) that would show a genuine change?  What would that be?

Realize also that you are making a deal with a disordered person.

My wife says lots of different reasons why we don't spank the kids anymore.  Many times blamed or directed at me.  She rarely takes any kind of responsibility for that change.  

However, she doesn't spank the kids.

What I am trying to say is that you need to list what you want, and we can help you figure out if it is reasonable/possible.

Sure, I would love it if my wife took responsibility and said things right.  It is much more important to me that she do things correctly.  In this case not spanking the kids.

Focus on actions, not promises.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

ArleighBurke, you did move out into an apartment... .and for good reason.

You've been gone for how long now? A week?

This doesn't need to be a "forever" thing. Many couples have had a split like this, whether it lasts a day, a week, a month, or a year. (Like Notwendy's examples)

It is pretty clear that you need this right now to be safe, to protect yourself from abuse, and to heal a bit. Do that.

It is OK to leave the door open a crack, not knowing what will feel right in the future. The future for you and your wife (together and apart) depends on both your choices and hers. You have no idea what she will choose, and probably are having trouble even knowing what you will chose!

[Lucky Jim]

Hey again, WSK,

There's nothing wrong with taking a break in order to gain a better perspective, so don't beat yourself up.  I suggest that you proceed cautiously, however, before agreeing to a recycle.

Many of us (read: me) have recycled, some many times.  Problem is: you often wind up in the same place except that it's more painful to leave the next time.

There's a reason why you moved out.  Don't lose sight of this reason, is my suggestion.

LuckyJim

[BrokenClock]

Thanks for sharing your story. Please keep us updated. It can really help those of us prepare for when we are ready to do the same thing.

[ArleighBurke]

I did leave for a reason. Sometimes it's hard to explain why exactly. Here's my try:

• she wouldn't "do" anything with me. Not socialising with friends, not dating, not even "home dates". She justified this for a whole bunch of reasons (we don't "need" to go out to be together, she gets anxious leaving the kids with a babysitter, she doesn't know my friends, she hates doing active/physical things with me because she feels 'shown up' when I'm better than her (I'm NOT competitive), she has sore back/feet, NO full time working mum has energy)



• she has a very bad view of sex. She has childhood sexual assault issues which cause her to feel strong negative emotions about sex, touching, kissing. Most times I cannot touch her without her feeling threatened/scared. She won't even french kiss unless it's part of sex. Any sexual advance/interest/mention has a 50% chance of causing her to "close up". My love language is touch, so this made me feel pushed away often.



• It's hard to talk with her. Many conversation topics trigger strong responses. If i express views/values different to her she feels threatened. There are SOO many topics that I've black listed



• She blames me alot for how she feels. I could *almost* live with this if i get validation correct.

I would like to think that she could change some of these things - but I doubt it very much. She didn't choose to have abuse, or BPD, so i feel guilty that i judge her based on it. But I know I have to. It's about whether she is trying to change. And she's not. She believes that "she is" and cannot change.

But assuming she tries, what would her "actions" look like:

• We'd date. We'd do *something* together every week or 2.



• Somehow we'd be more physical. I don't mind if we kept our current sex frequency, but would love more kissing and touching. I tried to instigate a "deep 30sec kiss" daily with her - but she objected so strongly because "what if she wasn't in the mood?"



• She accept I can be different to her without threatening her. How does she demonstrate this? Perhaps BPD therepy? Her current psych of 9yrs isn't effective. Perhaps if she agreed to see someone else - someone our marriage counsellor (BPD expert) recommended she see?

My fear is that she can force herself to do those things for a while, appearing like she's OK but inside she's not comfortable with it at all and eventually she explodes. She has done that many times in the past when i open up to her. Why should I think this time is different?

[Notwendy]

I think it is a reasonable fear to be concerned that a spouse would hold it together for a while, and then revert back to old behaviors, because these are the only "tools" in their behavioral tool box they have that they know to do.

I would say that for most of us, our relationship tools are the ones we have, they are familiar and we have been interacting with them for a long time.

What I have seen from people who successfully reconciled was that both people were willing to take on the task of personal growth with a T. It wasn't quick. It was a consistent effort over time. For my friend, I know that they backtracked at times - into old patterns, old behaviors- as that is habitual, but then, they would be able to recognize that these behaviors didn't work, and with the help of a T, get back on track.

How much change your wife is capable, and what you want, and your own personal work would need to be determined between the two of you. But regardless, doing your own personal work/growth would benefit you in all relationships.

[ArleighBurke]

I'm not sure about whether I am leaving the marriage or not. I moved out 5 days ago.

I called her tonight. I said I wasn't ready to come home, but I proposed coming home for the weekend, early sat morning to late sun evening to see her and the kids. I said I was happy to hear her thoughts about it and negotiate.

She said it was difficult because she was in limbo, and she wouldn't know where things were at with us, so coming home woudln't work.

Her: You either need to be in or out

Me: I think there are many states in between those.

Her: For you maybe. But not me.

Me: I know that "in" is a loving marriage. What does "out" look like?

Her: Out of the marriage

Me: So you're saying that you don't want to see me until I've decided whether I'm in or out?

Her: Yes.

Me: I understand this is difficult for you. I feel like this isn't quite fair. I think that being with you would help. If we are trying to build back up, then being around each other (not intimately) would be good.

Her: Marriage is a combination of good friendship and intimacy. They wax and wane. You need to decide whether you'll <something like put in or not>.

Me: I hope we always have our good friendship. It's the intimacy part I'm not sure about. Can't we just be good friends for the weekend?

Her: You're either in or out.

She then sent a text "I am sorry i can't dangle. People at work are asking questions and I don't know what to say - I don't want to say "my husband moved out" and put you in bad light. There is so much I want to say but I know you need space... ."

My friend pointed out that the text she sent was about what "other people" think - nothing about her. She also said the same just before I moved out when I proposed being around home all the time but not sleeping there - "what do we tell the kids?"

[ArleighBurke]

I did tell her a few days before I left what I was struggling with: that I missed going out and living life with her, and that it hurt not being able to be physical with her.

[Notwendy]

This is a pretty typical response with black and white thinking. You are either in or out.

It is also a way to manage her feelings. The in between stage is hard. If you are out, then the process of grief can proceed. "In" ends he feelings.

I think pw BPD prefer the magic erase method. ( for them not you, they don't forgive easily) but would like to see things just go back to the way they were. This can include a honeymoon stage where all is well--- until the next conflict.

Conflicts are inevitable in any relationship. It is their inability( and often ours too) to deal with them in a mature way that makes them more difficult.

I think it is natural to have fears, regrets. Few relationships are all bad. ( or all good). It is hard to give up the good parts along with the bad. This is a tough choice. Of course you will have ambivalent feelings. But you also need to stand your boundaries here if setting them is to mean anything. She has given you the choice of all in or all out. You aren't ready to make either. You can hold your ground, and will possibly be punished for a while. However, it is also possible that once she sees that you are holding your ground, and she can not coerce you with her all or none request, she may be open to negotiation ( or not). It may not be right away. But this is a first step in establishing a relationship where your boundaries are considered, and you don't cave to all her wants. Upholding boundaries is a risk. pw BPD don't like them. Their first reaction can be to cut off the relationship entirely. But boundaries don't mean much if they are not upheld.