What should I do when these things happen? Intimacy getting interrupted

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Many had read my topic, Intimacy (non sexual, sexual) and how it relates to my step son

My wife will be home with her son tonight. I have had a break for five days.

My wife and I MAY be able to have some time tonight together. If not tonight sometime this weekend. If we are getting intimate and then my wife tells me well let's get this over quickly because Johnny is up and it makes me nervous, or she might say I am not going to take my shirt off because he's up. Or she says again to me I just don't want him thinking THAT about me.  

What do I do? Just go with what we are doing and let it go for the moment and wait to discuss this with MC?

FF if you read this... .you asked in the previous discussion if my wife  was  opening up more sexually because she is enjoying it or is it just an "act of service"

The last time which was last Saturday she was the one to tell me hey get the "stuff " (lubricant) and I will give you a quickie (hand job) she said something to the effect of ( in a playful manner) At least you get something from the dollar menu. At least she instigated it but I don't get much emotion from her but she doesn't seem to be hating it either.

So what do I do if she brings up the fact that her 31 year old son is still up and she doesn't want to get too involved in what we are doing? The bedroom door shut and locked BTW  

[byfaith]

Many had read my topic, Intimacy (non sexual, sexual) and how it relates to my step son

My wife will be home with her son tonight. I have had a break for five days.

My wife and I MAY be able to have some time tonight together. If not tonight sometime this weekend. If we are getting intimate and then my wife tells me well let's get this over quickly because Johnny is up and it makes me nervous, or she might say I am not going to take my shirt off because he's up. Or she says again to me I just don't want him thinking THAT about me.  

What do I do? Just go with what we are doing and let it go for the moment and wait to discuss this with MC?

FF if you read this... .you asked in the previous discussion if my wife  was  opening up more sexually because she is enjoying it or is it just an "act of service"

The last time which was last Saturday she was the one to tell me hey get the "stuff " (lubricant) and I will give you a quickie (hand job) she said something to the effect of ( in a playful manner) At least you get something from the dollar menu. At least she instigated it but I don't get much emotion from her but she doesn't seem to be hating it either.

So what do I do if she brings up the fact that her 31 year old son is still up and she doesn't want to get too involved in what we are doing? The bedroom door shut and locked BTW  

[Sunfl0wer]

Man, this sounds tricky.  It sounds like she is enmeshed to the point of keeping his emotional state in her awareness at all times, and as if they have a shared emotional state, hence her discomfort of her sexuality.

Does this seem accurate?

I have to admit, I did not like leaving the bedroom shortly after sex as I felt my previous arousal was written all over my face and expressions.  I'd wait until I could get my 'love drunk' look off of me a bit.

Anyway... .

Do you think she would be less aviodant if you two were at a hotel?  (Without the son of course).

[byfaith]

Man, this sounds tricky.  It sounds like she is enmeshed to the point of keeping his emotional state in her awareness at all times, and as if they have a shared emotional state, hence her discomfort of her sexuality.

Does this seem accurate?

That is dead on accurate. She let's his condition control her whole life. Not just her thinking "oh no what is he going to think if he sees the bedroom door shut will he picture me having sex?"

She has stated before "if he can't have a life, why should I have a life?"

We can't even go out for 2 or 3 hours without her needing to "get back to the house"

If he is asleep during the day ( some people with schizophrenia have messed up sleep patterns) she can't be productive because she stays depressed that he is not awake trying to lead a somewhat normal life.

Do you think she would be less aviodant if you two were at a hotel?  (Without the son of course).

She won't go to a hotel. Not yet anyway. Ok if my wife is laying on the bed she has gotten "comfortable" with letting me feel her breasts and see them while she is lying down. But she is constantly pulling at the covers so I don't see too much or trying to pull her shirt down. When she goes to get out of the bed I have to turn my head because she doesn't want me to see her from her waste up , she has pajama bottoms on and low light in the room.

The other obstacle to the sexual issue is her weight (to me she looks awesome) this problem alone is nowhere near getting resolved in her mind.

[Sunfl0wer]

My ex was greatly enmeshed with D14.  He obsessed over her when we were out as though she could possibly need him and he would not be available. WTH could she possibly need that couldn't wait another hour?  He acted like if she txtd and he did not respond asap... .it meant he failed as a parent.  Ugh! (So of course she toyed with this and asked silly questions just to interrupt)

He had no idea that it is healthy for a child to separate, and I'm sure he didn't want to hear it from me.  He had constant separation anxiety, which seemed worse than a two year old missing their mom.  When she was around, the world revolved around her.  When she was not around, he was usually miserable.  (There were exceptions tho)

The only thing that got him at a bit of ease was when MC explained that it was NOT healthy for her, especially a child of divorce... .to NOT see adults leave the house and go have adult time.  She emphasized this as imperative.  His fear to not be a 'bad dad' always was his motivation for everything, so this actually worked... . I think he began relaxing on date nights as he felt he was doing it for his D.  (It would have felt nice to think he liked spending time with me, I'm pretty good company... .I think! But oh well.)

A T once explained the importance of using what motivates a person.  In his case, it was better to use his motivation to be a good dad, let him retain the 'all good daddy' role, but redefine how a 'good dad' should act.

My best thought for solution:

Find a support group for parents of special needs kids, then support her in attending.  They WILL emphasize encouraging independence.  Maybe hearing it from 'experts' will be a greater influence than you?  (Ok, that is not a one month strategy... .more a future one... .:/)

Or what else does your w allow to influence her?

Edit: Or maybe attend the group for yourself... .and if she goes, she goes.  She could be pissed if you suggest you are fixing her parenting.

[Sunfl0wer]

Does she exercise?

Toning up even if overweight could give her confidence to be naked.

Also, many people feel sexier or have higher drive from exercise.

Yet... .I guess this is not something YOU can do for her. :/

[Harri]

How about waiting to talk about this until you are with the MC? 

This issue is so huge and complex and, as such, I don't think it is wise to try to bring it up on your own.

As to how to bring it up in MC... .haven't a clue. 

[Notwendy]

Something came to mind when you mentioned this:

She has stated before "if he can't have a life, why should I have a life?"

The sexual stuff you two are doing involves you getting some sort of sexual pleasure but not her. As far as she is concerned for her, nothing happens below the belt.

I wonder if this enmeshment includes the idea that, if her son can't have sexual fulfillment with another person, then she won't either.

She knows it is a concern of you, so if she takes care of you ( while not really enjoying it, just taking care of the task at hand ( pun intended) but nothing in it for her, then she feels she has matched her son in deprivation in some way.

The problem is, if she doesn't have a sex life, neither do you.

The enmeshment isn't just between her and her son. It is with you too. Most dysfunctional relationships include enmeshment. Your accommodating her feelings and sexual preferences to this extent involves you in accepting not having sexual fulfillment with your spouse.

I agree that dealing with this may best be in MC as it is very complicated. You can't force her to have sex with you, but really, you want more and that needs to be considered. "Second base but not third" with your wife isn't the usual situation for marriage.

[Grey Kitty]

There is *NOTHING* easy about this situation... .and I think your best chance is to start by working on your own enmeshment. You are responsible for your own actions, not your wife's and not her son's.

Your wife and her son are enmeshed and there is a whole tangle of messed up stuff there. (And none of it is yours to fix!)

You cannot stop your wife from being enmeshed with her son. Further, if you TRY to stop her, you distract her from HER problem (enmeshment with her son) by making a new problem (conflict with you over enmeshment with her son!)

... .so go back to what you CAN do, and where you run into limits:

You can lock the door when you and your wife are getting intimate.

You can ignore her son knocking. You can tell her son that you are busy. You can ask your wife not to let him in.

However, if your wife chooses to stop having sex with you because her son interrupts, you have to honor her choice to stop. (And that is what you've been doing, as far as I know)

Your wife's body is hers, and she gets to choose what sex acts she wants to have with you, and when (if ever) that she wants to have them. There is a fundamental consent issue, and one KEY aspect to consent is that she doesn't need to have any reason at all not to consent to sex. Never mind needing a good reason, if she doesn't want to, you don't do it. That's consent.

So if she says "second base but not third" due to her enmeshment with her son, you have to accept her limitation. Or if she stops because her son knocks on the door, you have to accept that too.



That would appear to leave you out in the cold, with no options and no power, but it doesn't. Not quite.

You do not have to accept a sexless marriage, or a marriage which doesn't have the kind of sex you want.

And you have every right to tell her that this is very hard for you to live with, and you won't do it for the rest of your life.

That ultimately puts her responsibility back on her--exactly where it belongs--her enmeshment with her son is impacting her marriage, and she has to decide which is more important to her.

The good news here is that from what you describe, she does appear to want to do the right thing for her marriage, but she's kinda stuck.

By dealing with YOUR enmeshment with her on your own, you give her a lot more space to work this out the right way.

[formflier]

For now I would leave it alone.  Statements line that don't need a response.


Try to enjoy what you are getting and take it small steps.  Don't rush this.

FF

[JohnLove]

I really like the advice given in this thread... .but healthy choices may require more from her than she has to give... .at least right away. But I hope the responses have provided you validation and added clarity to your complex situation.