Feeling utterly rubbish. Again.

[Depression = 72% of members]

I was doing so well. Even though it nearly killed me, I was getting on with NC, and making some big positive changes to my life, including thinking about getting a new job and moving back to my  home country (something I've been thinking of for a couple of years and only havent because of expwBPD) And maybe it was that, the thought that I was intending to do something that meant there would be zero chance of us ever reconciling... .But I got in touch, and a week later I'm now in the throes of trying to rationalise and explain and rescue and make it all ok. We haven't recylced, far from it, we've had a week of nastiness, hurting each other, miscommunications and rejections and still I've got back into some mad "Of course I can make this ok" mindset and she's of course giving me intermittent ST and twisting my words and my motives and... .Right back down the rabbit hole. Again.

I don't know what I'd like anyone to say really, I know what I'm supposed to do. I guess I'm just posting this as a distraction to stop myself sending another text or email that will of course be the one that makes her hear me and understand me, and make it all ok.  Bleurgh

[La Carotte]

I was doing so well. Even though it nearly killed me, I was getting on with NC, and making some big positive changes to my life, including thinking about getting a new job and moving back to my  home country (something I've been thinking of for a couple of years and only havent because of expwBPD) And maybe it was that, the thought that I was intending to do something that meant there would be zero chance of us ever reconciling... .But I got in touch, and a week later I'm now in the throes of trying to rationalise and explain and rescue and make it all ok. We haven't recylced, far from it, we've had a week of nastiness, hurting each other, miscommunications and rejections and still I've got back into some mad "Of course I can make this ok" mindset and she's of course giving me intermittent ST and twisting my words and my motives and... .Right back down the rabbit hole. Again.

I don't know what I'd like anyone to say really, I know what I'm supposed to do. I guess I'm just posting this as a distraction to stop myself sending another text or email that will of course be the one that makes her hear me and understand me, and make it all ok.  Bleurgh

[WoundedBibi]

Saying it better, louder, again, doing it in mime, a text, a letter, it doesn't make ANY difference.

Your truth is not her truth. Her truth is not your truth. Nothing you say will alter that.

You're not her saviour. Or anybody else's. Put the white horse back in the stable and climb out of the rabbit hole. 

[khibomsis]

FIT, don't be so hard on yourself! Validate the fact that you were doing better than ever before. Recovery will go back and forward, sometimes it feels more back than forward. But it may be important to you in the future to feel that you gave it one more chance.

Truth? When I was in your situation I prayed. Kept me from jumping off bridges . 

And there are the lessons. How far have you come with them?  There was something in lesson 4 which may be of use to you now: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=119083.0

Maybe,like I was, you are pursuing some form of desensitizing treatment?

Sending you affirmations and a big  , Khib

[La Carotte]

Thanks guys. Got to say, I'm feeling utterly wretched. Again

WoundedBibi - I know that what you say is true. The language you use points to part of my ongoing problem though. "Her truth" "my truth" I know that the biggest part of the problem is that she believes things about me that are not true. She doesn't want to be in a relationship with me because she believes I have affairs or am interested in other people. I'm not. There isn't a grain of truth here, hers, mine or anyone else's, it's just NOT true. And I know that she loves me, and that's why she feels she has to protect herself from the fact im not bothered about her. But it isn't true. If she was rejecting me for something that was true and real then I could accept it and think fair enough. It's the fact that it isn't true that keeps me hooked and trying to prove. And I know I can't in theory, but it's just so hard, and unfair and wrong. I hate being told things about myself that aren't true and knowing that this is what she's basing it all on.

Khib- thanks for your support, as always. I'll go on the link now and see what I can glean from it. I have read the lessons, but learn somehting new each time, and of course, at some point I may actually make the leap from reading them to actually following them.

I smiled at your question about desensitising as it made me think of banging my head on a wall over and over and over so that eventually I don't feel anything. There's got to be an easier way, surely?

You're completely right though, I was doing better than before, and I'm still going ahead with the thoughts of moving... .and as long as I keep going along with that, no matter what I'm thinking and how much I'm interacting or not with her, there will come a time when its too late, game over for good and no going back no matter how hard it is.

Thank you both 

[HarleypsychRN]

Finally,

We all go through periods where we rationalize that if they just change or "we can fix this" (that was my big thing as a rescuer).

You can't.

You seem to realize the path you must take. It didn't work then... .what has changed? We all go through this.

I dreamed the other night that I saw her and she came back and things were great... .my subconscious mind at work. I know the reality is that she is a very toxic female who showered affection on me to the point where I got sucked into the vortex... .and spit right back out quicker than when I went in... .you are worth more than that and so am I.

[WoundedBibi]

WoundedBibi - I know that what you say is true. The language you use points to part of my ongoing problem though. "Her truth" "my truth" I know that the biggest part of the problem is that she believes things about me that are not true. She doesn't want to be in a relationship with me because she believes I have affairs or am interested in other people. I'm not. There isn't a grain of truth here, hers, mine or anyone else's, it's just NOT true. And I know that she loves me, and that's why she feels she has to protect herself from the fact im not bothered about her. But it isn't true. If she was rejecting me for something that was true and real then I could accept it and think fair enough. It's the fact that it isn't true that keeps me hooked and trying to prove. And I know I can't in theory, but it's just so hard, and unfair and wrong. I hate being told things about myself that aren't true and knowing that this is what she's basing it all on.

That is the entire point FIT.

PwBPD accuse their partners of cheating. You can find in the posts of every member here.

You know you didn't. I know I didn't. That is our truth.

Our exes are convinced, they 'know' we did. That is their truth.

NOTHING you say or do will change her mind. Every point you bring up to prove that your truth is THE truth will only be proof to her that you did cheat. Paranoia is a big part of BPD.

Accept you cannot alter her version of the truth. In the end it doesn't matter what she thinks. You know the truth. That is all that matters.

It isn't easy to accept it. I tried to fight it too. It didn't work. It bit me in my behind.

Everybody here has had to accept, or is busy doing just that, that the view of the world, of us, of events, of words, of a pwBPD is totally and utterly different than ours. It's like they live in a different universe. And nothing we do or say can take them out of their universe. We cannot cure their paranoia. We cannot cure their BPD.

[HurtinNW]

La Carotte, I've done what you did so many times, and I let it continue, and we would eventually recycle. That's really brave of you to see what you are doing and stop it in its tracks.

When I've relapsed in the past there was a part of me that felt like I was re-committed. I wasn't compassionate with myself that I could relapse into contacting him and just leave it there. It was kind of like the Ding Dong example. Once I had a bite I felt like I might as well eat the whole package. 

I really wish my ex could see my truth, hear my hurts, not see me as the awful, difficult, impossible horrible person he makes me out to be. It is so hard for me to let go. It hurts so bad because we love these people and no one wants to be despised by someone we love.

One thing that helps me a bit is to remember people with BPD/NPD experience rapidly shifting emotions and believe they are the facts. Her vision of you as a cheater is what she might think right now. A week from now she might think something else. You can try to get her to think differently about you but even if she thinks something positive it will be transitory and ankle deep. You can't build a house on a lake.

[La Carotte]

You all say things very clearly, things that I know really deep down, but find very reassuring to hear expressed directly to me, so thank you. It is good to be reminded that we all feel this way, I'm not on my own in these feelings. And that there's nothing I can do. I'm back to thinking again about why I keep allowing myself to get sucked down roads that I know lead to nothing other than pain and frustration.

In some ways I have improved things but... .maybe if I give an example of what I do, someone will see something I'm clearly not seeing?

As I said, I think it was probably the enormity of my planned move away that prompted me to get in touch, I guess a kind of last ditch attempt at believing that it'd be ok. So, I emailed her, saying how I was only going because I felt I had no choice, it wasn't what I wanted, I loved her blah blah. Never expected to hear from her as we'd had virtually no contact for a while, and certainly nothing positive. But obviously hoped I would or why would I get in touch?

So I'm literally on the platform and the train is pulling in and she calls me, first voice conversation in three weeks, and is sobbing and shouting that I'm cruel for getting in touch when clearly I want to go and live somewhere else and want a new life without her. And I'm trying to say this isn't true, but she's too busy shouting about how cruel I am and crying to hear me. Then she says, "don't go, choose me, if you choose to go, you are choosing to end this relationship." And hung up on me.

I got on the train. Six months ago I wouldn't. But then of course I spent the next five hours of journey trying to get her to see that it wasn't reasonable to expect me not to go when I'd got lots of arrangements with family members and friends, it wasn't reasonable when every single thing she's said for three months has been about us being over, (apart from the moments she's not) for me to take that chance, and besides, she'd probably change her mind by the time I got to her house, but of course I wanted things to be ok, when I got back in a few days we could meet, we could stay in touch in a nice way while I was away, etc etc etc.

Of course it was all a total waste of both our time, and so very upsetting for us both, and before long I was also getting cross becasue of course It progressed to the only reason I was going was so that I could have sex with my ex (who doesn't even live where I was going) or a random I was going to pick up, blah blah.

And of course, my time there, which I'd been looking forward to, was spoiled, and what's more, I still didn't give up,once I got there and she started ignoring me, I kept on trying to say those magic words that would make it all ok. And have been doing it pretty much since then for the past week.

A reasonable question to ask me would be why did I get in touch and then  get on the train when I'd actually apparently got what I wanted? My answer would be I was taken by surprise. And also, it can't be right that I should be expected to change my plans like that at the very last minute, surely? But maybe in this case it was cruel to not, when I'd prompted it? I'd not thought of it like that til now and don't like that. I don't want to be cruel.

Another question is why do I have this complete need to hang on so doggedly to something that isn't working, never has worked, and all evidence suggests won't work? I read in another thread about the narcissm of believing you can make it ok. Again, not a great thought.

I'd really appreciate any thoughts, I know this was a long post, so thank you for reading. I feel as though I may be coming through this particular episode again now, and I'd like to minimise my chances of instigating another one.

[HurtinNW]

I think you can examine your own personal drives for staying engaged. I know for me it has a lot to do with my history. The idea of someone I love once again abusing me, treating me badly, and then leaving me in my hurt is really dismantling to me. The relationship was loaded for me in that I wanted the story to end differently. It is very hard at my age (48) to feel I once again failed in the relationship department.

There are a lot of reasons we keep trying with our partners that have nothing to do with them. It's helping me to look at that. What were my motives?

I know for me there is a LOT of raw pain and grief I am going through right now. Reengaging with my ex has been a way of avoiding that pain.

It also lets me pretend that the problem is me. After all, if I accept his BPD/NPD then I am forced to end the contact because it is so clearly harmful for me. So there is a codependent side that wants to minimize his behaviors, take blame, etc, so I can stay in the relationship and continue to be blamed. Being blamed feels easier than being alone.

I'm guessing when you say the "enormity of the planned move" triggered you getting in touch with her, it was having to confront yes it is really over. You're the one who reached out to her, so you need to take accountability that she didn't suck you in... .you walked into the sharp blades yourself. I'm not saying that to make you feel bad, just that for me taking accountability of my own actions had been really helpful in avoiding them.

You want things to be okay. That's normal. Things are not going to be okay. There's a lot of pain, sadness, anger and grief that comes with really accepting that. 

I have a promise going with another poster that if we think about contacting our ex we will either post here or send a pm to each other. Maybe you can consider making some agreements like that with a friend or yourself?

[lunchbox123]

It's funny, I can totally imagine my exBPD and myself being in that situation.

I would get on the train, then hours later she would have moved on, not even sad, as if nothing happened. Even though hours earlier she was thinking her life and future was ending, it all depended on if I got on that train or not.

pwBPD are hyperemotional, that combined with extreme mood swings is just a recipe for destruction and disaster. I'm slowly coming to terms with the idea that they do not think or feel rationally.

If she had the feelings of wanting to make it work no matter what then rationally it wouldn't make a difference if you got on the train or not. But to her it probably felt "Okay, he's not coming right now. Well then it doesn't matter, I'll just do something else with my life"

You're afraid of it happening again, I think you should re-read your own post. How many times did you say "of course"? It might give you some insight in how you view the situation when you're thinking rationally vs emotionally.   

[WoundedBibi]

As I said, I think it was probably the enormity of my planned move away that prompted me to get in touch,

Makes sense. Moving away to another country does close the door on the 2 of you. No more options of running into each other. And it's an important decision anyway. Having to start over again. Big decision, big emotions.

So, I emailed her, saying how I was only going because I felt I had no choice, it wasn't what I wanted, I loved her blah blah. Never expected to hear from her as we'd had virtually no contact for a while, and certainly nothing positive. But obviously hoped I would or why would I get in touch?

What could have been reasons you emailed her? Let's see...

- That she would contact you?

- For you to say goodbye and have some closure?

- For you to justify you leaving?

- For her to be hurt by you leaving?

- a mix of all of the above?

No offense, but the words you use here does make your email come across as a bit 'victimy'. "if I had another choice (in other words if you had her) I wouldn't go". But you do have a choice. Living somewhere does not depend on being in a relationship with her. Unless she's so aggressive she hunts you down with an axe and you have to move to protect yourself.

sobbing and shouting that I'm cruel for getting in touch when clearly I want to go and live somewhere else and want a new life without her.

I can see why for her it might feel like that. You could just leave without telling her. By emailing you're opening her wounds around the breakup, implying "if we were still together I wouldn't go". It comes across as a bit (no offense meant) melodramatic and slightly manipulative. As if you want her to hurt over you leaving or stop you from leaving.

"don't go, choose me, if you choose to go, you are choosing to end this relationship." And hung up on me.

Emotional blackmail and manipulation on her part. "If you leave all chances are gone" "if you choose me there is a relationship, if you choose you there isn't" So your emotions and wants and needs are less important than hers; you're not allowed to make choices for yourself.

Not to mention the relationship had ended already as I understand.

I got on the train. Six months ago I wouldn't.

Good!

If you would have been in a Hollywood romantic drama it would have been a steam train and you would have run off to meet her, promised her you would never leave, and in a dramatic end scene you would promised each other your undying love and ended it with a passionate and desperate kiss. Life is not a film, so you never get to see what happens after the end scene but I'm guessing it isn't pretty. Films are dramatic, our BPD relationships are dramatic. I suspect real love is a lot less dramatic than we think or Hollywood portraits.

But then of course I spent the next five hours of journey trying to get her to see that it wasn't reasonable to expect me not to go when I'd got lots of arrangements with family members and friends

True. But why then did you email and not just go?

it wasn't reasonable when every single thing she's said for three months has been about us being over, (apart from the moments she's not) for me to take that chance

True. But why then did you email and not just go?

and besides, she'd probably change her mind by the time I got to her house

A pwBPD? Yes, very probable.

but of course I wanted things to be ok, when I got back in a few days we could meet, we could stay in touch in a nice way while I was away, etc etc etc.

Trying to soften the blow with negotiating, smoothing it over. If she's hurt with the prospect of you leaving permanently she is not going to feel better because you will meet up after your short trip. Nothing to do with BPD but people don't have to feel ok all the time. Feeling hurt is a feeling everybody is allowed to have. Were you feeling guilty for having hurt her?

It progressed to the only reason I was going was so that I could have sex with my ex (who doesn't even live where I was going) or a random I was going to pick up, blah blah.

Everybody always cheats. Typical BPD thought. A seductive siren behind every blade of grass.

And of course, my time there, which I'd been looking forward to, was spoiled, and what's more, I still didn't give up,once I got there and she started ignoring me, I kept on trying to say those magic words that would make it all ok. And have been doing it pretty much since then for the past week.

By emailing you sabotaged yourself out of having a good time.

Those magic words, as you know, don't exist. There are no magic words to make her believe you have not cheated. There are no magic words to take away her BPD pain. There are no magic words to undo your email or that she feels abandoned by the prospect of you leaving.

A reasonable question to ask me would be why did I get in touch and then  get on the train when I'd actually apparently got what I wanted? My answer would be I was taken by surprise. And also, it can't be right that I should be expected to change my plans like that at the very last minute, surely? But maybe in this case it was cruel to not, when I'd prompted it? I'd not thought of it like that til now and don't like that. I don't want to be cruel.

If there was anything cruel, it wasn't that you didn't go see her IMO. It was sending the email.

All this drama would not have happened if you would not have sent your email. It seems to me you didn't think it trough before you sent it. "What is my aim? Why do I want to email her? What response do I expect? What response do I want? Is my wording going to get me what I want? Is what I want fair on her? Is what I want realistic?"

Another question is why do I have this complete need to hang on so doggedly to something that isn't working, never has worked, and all evidence suggests won't work? I read in another thread about the narcissm of believing you can make it ok. Again, not a great thought.

Thinking you can turn her life from hell into paradise where all others including her have failed is a narcissistic idea. I think you are hanging on maybe not because you think YOU can change it (you know you can't), but because you *so* want the outcome to be different. Doesn't have to be you, could be a fairy godmother doing her magic, but you're still dreaming of a different outcome. A happy healthy relationship between 2 happy healthy people.

[lingering]

In some ways I have improved things but... .maybe if I give an example of what I do, someone will see something I'm clearly not seeing?

"... .the enormity of my planned move away that prompted me to get in touch, I guess a kind of last ditch attempt at believing that it'd be ok."

Ouch.  Self sabotage hurts!

"I got on the train."  Wow - Great job! 

"And of course, my time there, which I'd been looking forward to, was spoiled... ."  Lived that.  It is brutal.  Appeasement is not the same as peacekeeping.  Appeasement is not love.  It is fear. 

Oh, that need to hang on... .to make it right... .repetition compulsion.  It is hard to just accept.  It is hard for me.  I want to make myself heard, I want my exh wuBPD to understand.  He is not capable.  He just can't.  He is a child in a man's body. 

I think the call here at the nexus of the end of a BPD incident is to learn to love ourselves.  Really and Truly.  We chose these really needy people.  They "proved" that we had it all together. Wounded Bibi wrote in another post to me something about a soft whisper saying "I can help you, I can save you, I am smarter than you... .I am better than you".  Paraphrasing but the essence of it is that my part in my failed marriage was that I entered into it in the first place.  I am not God.  I can not save someone.  Witnessing another person's pain is a brutal experience.  Doing so with compassion and detachment is my goal.  Not with my ex but with the future folks I meet in my helping profession.  I can do my part but I am not going to heal it.  I must let God be in charge of that.  Loving detach-ment. 

[balletomane]

Ouch. My heart goes out to you. I made the exact same mistake. It wasn't so much that I wanted to get back together with my ex (I knew that would be a terrible idea for both of us) but that I wanted him to understand how I felt and see me for who I actually am. It feels lonely, disorientating, and frightening to stand in front of someone whom you care about very much and know that they can't really see you. It's as though we're distorted reflections in those fun fair mirrors.

My ex also accused me of cheating (a ludicrous suggestion - I've never been attracted to more than one person at once and I'm loyal almost to a fault, as shown by my decision not to tell others how he was treating me and how hard I tried to make sure he and I could at least remain friends). He accused me of a whole bunch of other things I didn't do, and he projected his behaviour onto me. He cheated on me at the end, but he didn't see it as cheating, and was angry that I was upset instead of supporting him in his new relationship. And for all the reasons I've given, I really wanted him to understand why that was so hurtful. I was sure that if I just phrased it the right way, he'd get it. I remember debating over the merits of face-to-face versus online communication, thinking that his reactions were more explosive and irrational when we talked online. But maybe if I talked to him about it over IM, it would help, as I could explain it detail by little detail and avoid overwhelming him with one big conversation? I tied myself into knots over these considerations. And ultimately none of it mattered. The problem wasn't the medium of communication I was using, or how I worded myself. The problem was his BPD. That is always going to be the problem. It's the same for you and your ex. There is nothing you can say to make her hear and understand. There is no magic formula of words.

I had to grieve all over again once I realised this, or maybe I'd never properly started grieving in the first place. Like you, I left for another country (not because of my ex - I needed to move for my own reasons) and that hit me hard and made me even sadder about our inability to stay friends. But slowly I have been reassembling my life over here. It does get better. Just take it one day at a time.

[La Carotte]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to give me such considered thoughts about what I did, really helpful.

I opened that can of worms and am now suffering the consequences of that, and so may ex be as well, which is not a nice feeling.

I very often act on impulse without thinking though the consequences properly, and I need to be more accountable for my own actions rather than blame her.

And I need to let go.

Thank you to all of you who contributed, I'm going to read this thread over again a few times as I know there are a number of really important things for me.

X