What happened when you called them out on their abuse?

[5tarla]

I had the blame shifted onto me, an empty "I'm sorry", being told I was 'overthinking'. What are you guys' experiences with calling out their abusive actions, or just expressing yourself in general?

[sweet tooth]

I told my ex-uPBDgf that she was giving me mixed messages. We did everything couples do (except get physically intimate). Then she told me there was "no spark" 11 months in. I told her I cared about her more than I ever cared about anyone. She said "I need space. You don't even know me."

I messaged her two weeks later. She said, "do not contact me again." That was March 1st. I haven't heard from her since, other than occasional LinkedIn stalking.

[Teereese]

Typical BPD FOG, blame, devaluation, projection, gaslighting.

I never received an "I'm sorry" unless it was followed by a "but you" and even those were few and far in between.

[once removed]

im a proponent of not tolerating abuse as opposed to calling someone out on it. having said that... .

BPD is often referred to as a "persecution complex". whether i was defending myself, or verbally attacking her, i was reinforcing her point of view, either about herself (that she is fundamentally "bad" or about me (that i was persecuting her). so i either received lengthy heartfelt apologies full of blaming herself, or heard about what a jerk i was.

in fairness to both of us, on occasion, we had some pretty good, adult give and take and reached reasonable conclusions. no single dynamic ruled our relationship for the entirety, but for the most part, we were in conflict.

[HurtinNW]

BPD is often referred to as a "persecution complex". whether i was defending myself, or verbally attacking her, i was reinforcing her point of view, either about herself (that she is fundamentally "bad" or about me (that i was persecuting her). so i either received lengthy heartfelt apologies full of blaming herself, or heard about what a jerk i was.

I need to have this tattooed on my hand. This describes my situation perfectly.

[once removed]

thatd be a pretty lengthy tattoo and the questions would probably never cease 

[5tarla]

im a proponent of not tolerating abuse as opposed to calling someone out on it. having said that... .

BPD is often referred to as a "persecution complex". whether i was defending myself, or verbally attacking her, i was reinforcing her point of view, either about herself (that she is fundamentally "bad" or about me (that i was persecuting her). so i either received lengthy heartfelt apologies full of blaming herself, or heard about what a jerk i was.

in fairness to both of us, on occasion, we had some pretty good, adult give and take and reached reasonable conclusions. no single dynamic ruled our relationship for the entirety, but for the most part, we were in conflict.

You're absolutely right. It was either filled with self-loathing and her view of herself and how bad she was, but never saying specific reasons why she was bad, but ultimately our final conflict resulted in a ton of gas lighting and her never taking responsibility for anything. So odd how similar everyone's situations here are.

Typical BPD FOG, blame, devaluation, projection, gaslighting.

I never received an "I'm sorry" unless it was followed by a "but you" and even those were few and far in between.

Same. "I'm sorry, but you didn't try and make things better... ." A direct quote folks

[once removed]

i think what you mean by "gas lighting" is two competing points of view. keep in mind that for a person who is so overwhelmed by their feelings, feelings tend to = fact.

its hard, really hard, but we can grow as a result of understanding (or trying to at least) our exes perspective. poor communication is at the heart of so many of our relationships.

[HurtinNW]

For me the real growth is starting where I say, okay, my ex was either persecuting himself or me. And... .(drum roll please) why did I stay? Why did I keep returning?

Those are the real questions, in my mind.

[5tarla]

Honestly, after I found out the truth there was no more self-blaming on her part, just invalidating me and what she did to me. I didn't stay after the cat was out of the bag, but I'm still interested to hear about others.

[once removed]

For me the real growth is starting where I say, okay, my ex was either persecuting himself or me. And... .(drum roll please) why did I stay? Why did I keep returning?

Those are the real questions, in my mind.

this is a good start. the thing is that our exes were frequently experiencing us as, and we were frequently in the role of, persecutor. this likely plays a role in why you stayed and kept returning. both sides frequently, alternatively, and perhaps simultaneously, view the other as persecutor and rescuer, and themselves as victim. odds are both parties shifted between all three and this is at the heart of the kind of conflict we are discussing.

PERSPECTIVES: Ongoing Relationship Conflict/ Karpman Drama Triangle 

full article here: https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

[hergestridge]

It didn't matter what I said, the issue in itself couldn't be discussed. I said "Please stop doing this and that". She said "Are you telling me what to do?". I said "Please stop hurting me". She said "Am you saying I'm a horrible person?".

I wanted to discuss the actions, but ended up having my motives questioned.

But then again my ex wife took all criticism personally. It takes some maturity to keep focus on the actions one is being criticized for. I'm not there yet, and my ex wife has not even begun that journey.

[LilMe]

I am physically fresh out - 2 days. But I have been mentally out for several months. It took me months to gather evidence and plan my escape.  All he said was 'the last few days were OK, why did you leave'!  Forget the last 10 years of physical and mental abuse of me and our children!  He can have his reality. I must let it go for my healing.  Forgive, but don't forget so it never happens again.   I hope to be as NC as I can be with children.

[Thread]

Same situation here as most, worst part is he abhors how his grandpa beat and abused his mother... .Funny thing is he is verbally and emotionally abusive to me. Since DBT it has reduced, we had a counselor who wasn't familiar with BPD who made my marriage hell.

But when he lashed out now, or gets testy with me, I used to call him on it and yes it was empty apologies, with the but you... .Or you made me... .Or the way you said... .Empty apologies and never any change.

Then there is the other reaction; where he freaks out and starts crying and will say things like "you're right. I'm stupid. I'm retarded. I'm always wrong. It's all my fault." Again it's like no actual belief behind the words. It's as if he is repeating what he believes I say or feel about him. I have to say after, I've never called you retarded. You are not stupid.

Lately when he gets grumpy I let it go until it starts going for too long or getting snapped at a few times in a short period... .I then will just calmly look him in the eye and say "can you be kind to me please." Or "can you treat me like your wife as if you love me."

He just looks and me and doesn't say anything. It stops the mistreatment as if he becomes bewildered. It doesn't super last, but it does keep him quiet and maybe mindful of how he is acting. Not too sure tho, just stared this a few weeks ago.

[hergestridge]

I am physically fresh out - 2 days. But I have been mentally out for several months. It took me months to gather evidence and plan my escape.  All he said was 'the last few days were OK, why did you leave'!  Forget the last 10 years of physical and mental abuse of me and our children!  He can have his reality. I must let it go for my healing.  Forgive, but don't forget so it never happens again.   I hope to be as NC as I can be with children.

Good luck to you. I was in this situation too and staying as NC as possible has worked wonders. Once removed from me my exwife became a more responsible parent, but only if I left her to her own devices.

I was also mentally prepared to leave when she eventually left me. It dawned on me that we didn't have history together and that made me sad and disillusioned. As you say, they have a few good days and they think all is forgotten and forgiven. We all benefit from living a bit more in the present, but pwBPD live only in the present and that becomes destructive.

Good luck with your new life!

[Herodias]

Mine said he didn't realize he was abusive... .Usually called me abusive.

[MapleBob]

Whenever I called her out on her behavior ... .things got worse, one way or another. I suspect that it was largely dependent on her state of mind in those particular moments (feelings = facts). If she was already angered-up I got blame-shifting, rants about why her abuse was justified, or just generalized avoidance of the topic (usually in favor of talking about MY behaviors). If she was in a decent mood I'd sometimes get a light apology or acknowledgement, but then she'd change the subject - or somehow I'd end up being the trouble-maker by mentioning it. If she was feeling self-critical already I'd get a bunch of victim behavior like "it's fine, I'll be the quitter/jerk/bad person if that's what makes you happy, I don't care, I'm a bad person, woe is me, I'm so sad about my life and I'm going to die alone... .etc."

The bottom line is that she did everything humanly possible to avoid any true adult accountability towards me for her words/actions - and that, in fact, IS an abusive behavior.

[flourdust]

Whenever I called her out on her behavior ... .things got worse, one way or another. I suspect that it was largely dependent on her state of mind in those particular moments (feelings = facts). If she was already angered-up I got blame-shifting, rants about why her abuse was justified, or just generalized avoidance of the topic (usually in favor of talking about MY behaviors). If she was in a decent mood I'd sometimes get a light apology or acknowledgement, but then she'd change the subject - or somehow I'd end up being the trouble-maker by mentioning it. If she was feeling self-critical already I'd get a bunch of victim behavior like "it's fine, I'll be the quitter/jerk/bad person if that's what makes you happy, I don't care, I'm a bad person, woe is me, I'm so sad about my life and I'm going to die alone... .etc."

 When did you date my wife?

[5tarla]

But when he lashed out now, or gets testy with me, I used to call him on it and yes it was empty apologies, with the but you... .Or you made me... .Or the way you said... .Empty apologies and never any change.

This part resonates with me so much. "Or the way you said... ." Is so true. Focusing on tone of voice instead of what I'm saying is so odd to me, and the ultimate deflection imo.

[MapleBob]

Whenever I called her out on her behavior ... .things got worse, one way or another. I suspect that it was largely dependent on her state of mind in those particular moments (feelings = facts). If she was already angered-up I got blame-shifting, rants about why her abuse was justified, or just generalized avoidance of the topic (usually in favor of talking about MY behaviors). If she was in a decent mood I'd sometimes get a light apology or acknowledgement, but then she'd change the subject - or somehow I'd end up being the trouble-maker by mentioning it. If she was feeling self-critical already I'd get a bunch of victim behavior like "it's fine, I'll be the quitter/jerk/bad person if that's what makes you happy, I don't care, I'm a bad person, woe is me, I'm so sad about my life and I'm going to die alone... .etc."

 When did you date my wife?

About two years ago! 

Funny how so much of is like different actors reading the same script, right?

[flourdust]

Funny how so much of is like different actors reading the same script, right?

Seriously. It's simultaneously validating and horrifying.

[MapleBob]

Funny how so much of is like different actors reading the same script, right?

Seriously. It's simultaneously validating and horrifying.

I know. Too bad that script is a bad retelling of "Romeo And Juliet"!

[5tarla]

The one I can say I haven't experienced from my ex was being told I was trying to control her, or telling her what to do. And lord knows there were plenty of opportunities to do so. She would always humor me by acting like she was listening to me and going to actually do what needed to be done so that we could make it work, then she would just go off and do what she wanted.

[MapleBob]

The one I can say I haven't experienced from my ex was being told I was trying to control her, or telling her what to do. And lord knows there were plenty of opportunities to do so. She would always humor me by acting like she was listening to me and going to actually do what needed to be done so that we could make it work, then she would just go off and do what she wanted.

Yeah, come to think of it, I was never accused of being controlling either. I heard that I was "condescending" a lot instead, I think. I probably was condescending, admittedly, or things that I said could have been received that way. That's a tough one. What's the other option, keep our mouths shut about things that obviously could/should have been different?

[once removed]

What's the other option, keep our mouths shut about things that obviously could/should have been different?

radical acceptance. whether that means leaving or staying.

[Moselle]

I remember the day very clearly when I told my ex tbat I understood the game she was playing. Her eyes went wide when I told her that the game and the dance was over. That I simply would not be playing it any more.  Ultimately she could not tolerate being married to someone she could not control.

[lunchbox123]

I remember the day very clearly when I told my ex tbat I understood the game she was playing. Her eyes went wide when I told her that the game and the dance was over. That I simy wkuld jkt be aying it any more.  Ultimately she could not tolerate being married to someone she could not control.

Funny you compare it to a game, when I confronted my exBPDgf with proof about the cheating I had accused her of, her response was, and a I quote, "Game over?".

I don't think it's all a big game to them but I don't think they have a grasp of the severity of their actions or the consequences.

[Moselle]

I think they know very clearly that they are manipulating, hurting and sucking on other people. They choose to continue doing it. It works for them and there are many payoffs for a borderline. I think that's why its hard to treat. They want that life of drama, and dysregulation.  Lots of people come to their rescue when they play victim and they generally get away with being a bully.

[5tarla]

Yes. I think once you call them out on cheating it's the ultimate 'betrayal'. And I know they know what they're doing, my ex knew. She's been cheated on before and it wrecked her, yet that never stopped her from doing what she did. Even after all that though she still told me she 'loved' me, but will never verbally say she cheated. I know it, she knows it, but her saying it is impossible.

[MapleBob]

I think they know very clearly that they are manipulating, hurting and sucking on other people. They choose to continue doing it. It works for them and there are many payoffs for a borderline. I think that's why its hard to treat. They want that life of drama, and dysregulation.  Lots of people come to their rescue when they play victim and they generally get away with being a bully.

Mine certainly knew, she just couldn't stop. 

She'd admit to being manipulative, a bully, and to being unfair and hurtful and misjudging me. Repeatedly. I'm not sure I'll ever understand how she could know and admit to these things and then continue to do them - or, maybe more importantly, why I put it up with it (she even praised and valued me for putting up with it!). I think that I was striving for radical acceptance, as someone mentioned above, but I can't do that in our relationship if she's going to leave and stay away.

So I get to do it out of our relationship, which is honestly easier in the long run.